[Predictions] Fairy Tail Manga Chapter 403 Discussion and 404 Predictions

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Caliburn

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Hmmmm odd.

When Kyouka started going on about how she locked away Erza's senses, I was convinced Erza would overcome it because of her artificial eye supposedly being unaffected, giving her a small window of opportunity to counter. It would even be more so appropriate seeing the fact that she lost that eye due to those fanatics of the Cult of Zeref, who were very similar to Kyouko in regards to this blind adoration of Zeref. This really could have been a case of symbolism/irony/karma or whatever you want to call it, so it really seems a missed opportunity. Then again that might still be the case for the next chapter as I think her right eye is her artificial eye, which was mostly shown to be covered by her hair.

Something else, I was intrigued by how Kyouka was describing Mard Geer, which gave me the impression that Mard Geer has his own agenda. Though that might just be the way it was translated as MS has a different interpretation.
 
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jasonb101588

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Hmmmm odd.

When Kyouka started going on about how she locked away Erza's senses, I was convinced Erza would overcome it because of her artificial supposedly being unaffected, giving her a small window of opportunity to counter. It would even be more so appropriate seeing the fact that she lost that eye due to those fanatics of the Cult of Zeref, who were very similar to Kyouko in regards to this blind adoration of Zeref. This really could have been a case of symbolism/irony/karma or whatever you want to call it, so it really seems a missed opportunity. Then again that might still be the case for the next chapter as I think her right eye is her artificial eye, which was mostly shown to be covered by her hair.

Something else, I was intrigued by how Kyouka was describing Mard Geer, which gave me the impression that Mard Geer has his own agenda. Though that might just be the way it was translated as MS has a different interpretation.
I completely forgot about her artificial eye. That's probably why she's still able to see. I mean, when she was turned to stone by Evergreen in the Fighting Festival arc, she was partly affected because of her artificial eye and during their fight, she closed her normal eye and wasn't turned to stone despite having her artificial eye open. Thanks for bringing this up. This makes more sense now.
 
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Scorps

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Hmmmm odd.

When Kyouka started going on about how she locked away Erza's senses, I was convinced Erza would overcome it because of her artificial supposedly being unaffected, giving her a small window of opportunity to counter. It would even be more so appropriate seeing the fact that she lost that eye due to those fanatics of the Cult of Zeref, who were very similar to Kyouko in regards to this blind adoration of Zeref. This really could have been a case of symbolism/irony/karma or whatever you want to call it, so it really seems a missed opportunity. Then again that might still be the case for the next chapter as I think her right eye is her artificial eye, which was mostly shown to be covered by her hair.

Something else, I was intrigued by how Kyouka was describing Mard Geer, which gave me the impression that Mard Geer has his own agenda. Though that might just be the way it was translated as MS has a different interpretation.
As I read through it, I assumed the same. It would make sense and would actually be a smart move to not use the plot shield in this case as there was no need for it. As it stands, she became able to endure kyouka's curse because she's Erza and powerful on her own....or something. Not the best chapter for me. I like Erza and I like the whole nakama empowerment and what not but this time it didn't do much for me.

Lets see how it goes.
 

Erebus

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Hmmmm odd.

When Kyouka started going on about how she locked away Erza's senses, I was convinced Erza would overcome it because of her artificial eye supposedly being unaffected, giving her a small window of opportunity to counter. It would even be more so appropriate seeing the fact that she lost that eye due to those fanatics of the Cult of Zeref, who were very similar to Kyouko in regards to this blind adoration of Zeref. This really could have been a case of symbolism/irony/karma or whatever you want to call it, so it really seems a missed opportunity. Then again that might still be the case for the next chapter as I think her right eye is her artificial eye, which was mostly shown to be covered by her hair.

Something else, I was intrigued by how Kyouka was describing Mard Geer, which gave me the impression that Mard Geer has his own agenda. Though that might just be the way it was translated as MS has a different interpretation.
As much as i wish to agree, i can't, because despite the artificial eye, it is just one of the 5 senses, to go with logic(which we aren't) she is for lack of better words, a 'doll' right now, she can only see(maybe), but her coordination right now should be non-existent
 

90sKids98

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As much as i wish to agree, i can't, because despite the artificial eye, it is just one of the 5 senses, to go with logic(which we aren't) she is for lack of better words, a 'doll' right now, she can only see(maybe), but her coordination right now should be non-existent
Exactly. Which is why she won't win. Either Minerva decides to step up and help out or Jellal saves her. Thats why the next chapter is called "00:00" because she'll most likely fail to stop Kyouka and FACE will activate
 

UCE

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Exactly. Which is why she won't win. Either Minerva decides to step up and help out or Jellal saves her. Thats why the next chapter is called "00:00" because she'll most likely fail to stop Kyouka and FACE will activate
That's a pretty cool idea. Having jellal save erza would be truly great. Jellal vs kyouka would be a great fight, obviously jellal will win that fight easy.
 

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That's a pretty cool idea. Having jellal save erza would be truly great. Jellal vs kyouka would be a great fight, obviously jellal will win that fight easy.
Nah!I personally want Erza to end this fight without anyone's help.In this chapter it was established that Erza can endure hard pain though 5 senses are lost.What it seems to me odd is that how Erza landed punch on kyoka having lost her sight....Random lucky punch? or Artificial eye effect ? like what Caliburn sama said
 

Caliburn

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As much as i wish to agree, i can't, because despite the artificial eye, it is just one of the 5 senses, to go with logic(which we aren't) she is for lack of better words, a 'doll' right now, she can only see(maybe), but her coordination right now should be non-existent
It can extremely easy be like that. For starters three of those 5 senses actually are not really that important for such a situation. Your senses of smell and taste can, to put it blunt, be considered worthless. Your sense of hearing isn't that important in this particular situation and with one eye potentially working, the only sense she is actually really missing is her sense of touch. However under the assumption the she can see, she should be able to see where she could set her foot and how she would need to move her fist to hit Kyouka, even more so because the latter was practically standing in front of her. Then you also need to add the fact that Erza is an experienced warrior, she can use her feet to wield swords and fight with them. She has her fighting skills drilled into her muscles. But above all she can still use her "sense" of magic to be aware of the magic in her body.

I also heard a few days ago that having only 5 senses is actually a myth, that in reality we have over twenty, like for example your sense of balance. Taken these 5 are the big ones, but still it remains so that Erza just having one eye working is enough to easily accept her hitting Kyouka like that.
 

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It can extremely easy be like that. For starters three of those 5 senses actually are not really that important for such a situation. Your senses of smell and taste can, to put it blunt, be considered worthless. Your sense of hearing isn't that important in this particular situation and with one eye potentially working, the only sense she is actually really missing is her sense of touch. However under the assumption the she can see, she should be able to see where she could set her foot and how she would need to move her fist to hit Kyouka, even more so because the latter was practically standing in front of her. Then you also need to add the fact that Erza is an experienced warrior, she can use her feet to wield swords and fight with them. She has her fighting skills drilled into her muscles. But above all she can still use her "sense" of magic to be aware of the magic in her body.

I also heard a few days ago that having only 5 senses is actually a myth, that in reality we have over twenty, like for example your sense of balance. Taken these 5 are the big ones, but still it remains so that Erza just having one eye working is enough to easily accept her hitting Kyouka like that.
Also because Kyouka was expecting Erza to be knocked out suffering, and because she lost the sense of touch, she feels no pain, so she don't need to endure it
 

fiend

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It can extremely easy be like that. For starters three of those 5 senses actually are not really that important for such a situation. Your senses of smell and taste can, to put it blunt, be considered worthless. Your sense of hearing isn't that important in this particular situation and with one eye potentially working, the only sense she is actually really missing is her sense of touch. However under the assumption the she can see, she should be able to see where she could set her foot and how she would need to move her fist to hit Kyouka, even more so because the latter was practically standing in front of her. Then you also need to add the fact that Erza is an experienced warrior, she can use her feet to wield swords and fight with them. She has her fighting skills drilled into her muscles. But above all she can still use her "sense" of magic to be aware of the magic in her body.

I also heard a few days ago that having only 5 senses is actually a myth, that in reality we have over twenty, like for example your sense of balance. Taken these 5 are the big ones, but still it remains so that Erza just having one eye working is enough to easily accept her hitting Kyouka like that.
Although Erza's one eye is artificial, it still wouldn't work because such unprecedented embargo on five senses would only be possible if working on a neurological level besides just on a normal sensory level, Kyouka's magic in order to disable all 5 senses would have put an embargo on working of Erza's brain. Moreover her heightened sense of feeling pain despite her loosing sense of 'touch' attests to the fact that Kyouka's magic is acting primarily on a neurological level.

As you said out of 5 vision is the most important as hearing, smell, taste, feeling can be surpassed by her seeing+muscle memory, her fight experience.

So in order for her to see her artificial eye is just irrelevant, her brain has to function, which could have been represented by 2 ways:-
a. A new magical armor which negates such effects, which in itself is kind of an asspull.
b. Her willpower negating these effects, which I presume happened and she took control of her brain back, which happened because of her dedication to her guild and friends, which is cliche but the theme of FT.

In the end it would have been better if Erza fought Kyouka with someone else (Jellal), but I don't think Hiro wants her to lose or appear weak in any situation.

As for senses there are many but are controlled by our 5 main sense organs and our brain hence 5 main senses and other their derivatives like balance (vestibular system) (derivative of eyes, fluid in ears.), temperature, pain, Kinesthetic sense (skin, Touch) so on and so forth.
 
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90sKids98

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Nah!I personally want Erza to end this fight without anyone's help.In this chapter it was established that Erza can endure hard pain though 5 senses are lost.What it seems to me odd is that how Erza landed punch on kyoka having lost her sight....Random lucky punch? or Artificial eye effect ? like what Caliburn sama said
Even I feel it's impossible for Erza to win this one. Lets take what going on right now:
-Kyouka is getting stronger every second
-Her strength destroyed one of her strongest armors in one hit
-Erza can barely move, and is feeling pain even when she attacks
-She has no senses anymore, so she's going to struggle
-FACE is still ticking down, and at a faster rate

Even if Erza says that the pain isn't enough to stop her, Kyouka can still attack her however she pleases. Her Artificial Eye is probably the only reason that she might be able to see.

BUT! Something confused me just now this chapter. If Erza no longer has any senses, is she even capable of feeling the pain Kyouka inflicts on her? Because thats both a Positive and Negative for Erza. Good because she wont be able to feel the damage Kyouka does to her, but bad because she wont be able to sense when she's reached her limit.
 

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Even I feel it's impossible for Erza to win this one. Lets take what going on right now:
-Kyouka is getting stronger every second
-Her strength destroyed one of her strongest armors in one hit
-Erza can barely move, and is feeling pain even when she attacks
-She has no senses anymore, so she's going to struggle
-FACE is still ticking down, and at a faster rate

Even if Erza says that the pain isn't enough to stop her, Kyouka can still attack her however she pleases. Her Artificial Eye is probably the only reason that she might be able to see.

BUT! Something confused me just now this chapter. If Erza no longer has any senses, is she even capable of feeling the pain Kyouka inflicts on her? Because thats both a Positive and Negative for Erza. Good because she wont be able to feel the damage Kyouka does to her, but bad because she wont be able to sense when she's reached her limit.
To the pain thing
That's actually totally good
Because she don't want to know her limit
 

UCE

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Nah!I personally want Erza to end this fight without anyone's help.In this chapter it was established that Erza can endure hard pain though 5 senses are lost.What it seems to me odd is that how Erza landed punch on kyoka having lost her sight....Random lucky punch? or Artificial eye effect ? like what Caliburn sama said
at first i wanted that, really. For me the only thing/armor that can match that demon is armor of nakagami. We haven't seen that armor since GMG, very powerful. If not, than someone more powerful can just enter and end this fight already. How many times are we going to see erza vs kyouka? It's rather tiresome at this point. There are better things to worry about right now, like natsu & his father vs acnologia and mard geer.

As for your question, caliburn just made another post in rewards to the sense stuff.
 

Caliburn

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Although Erza's one eye is artificial, it still wouldn't work because such unprecedented embargo on five senses would only be possible if working on a neurological level besides just on a normal sensory level, Kyouka's magic in order to disable all 5 senses would have put an embargo on working of Erza's brain. Moreover her heightened sense of feeling pain despite her loosing sense of 'touch' attests to the fact that Kyouka's magic is acting primarily on a neurological level.

As you said out of 5 vision is the most important as hearing, smell, taste, feeling can be surpassed by her seeing+muscle memory, her fight experience.

So in order for her to see her artificial eye is just irrelevant, her brain has to function, which could have been represented by 2 ways:-
a. A new magical armor which negates such effects, which in itself is kind of an asspull.
b. Her willpower negating these effects, which I presume happened and she took control of her brain back, which happened because of her dedication to her guild and friends, which is cliche but the theme of FT.

In the end it would have been better if Erza fought Kyouka with someone else (Jellal), but I don't think Hiro wants her to lose or appear weak in any situation.

As for senses there are many but are controlled by our 5 main sense organs and our brain hence 5 main senses and other their derivatives like balance (vestibular system) (derivative of eyes, fluid in ears.), temperature, pain, Kinesthetic sense (skin, Touch) so on and so forth.
You are approaching this completely the wrong way. They're mages and demons, while you are seeing this like they are regular people where on one of the two a neurosurgeon locked of some senses. That logic is misplaced.

Evergreen could turn people to stone by looking them into the eyes, still it didn't work when Erza only used her artificial eye. Why? Why would it matter that her eye is artificial? It does the exact same thing as her regular eye and should be connected more or less the same way as her original eye was with her brain. In the end the components of her original eye got replaced with other components that do the exact same thing. Logically speaking whether she has an artificial eye or not, it shouldn't matter, she should have been turned to stone by Evergreen. But she didn't. Why? Because her eye is artificial. It's 'different'. That's the logic you apply to FT. Hence Erza having an artificial eye is enough a reason to justify her being able to do what she did.

All your neurological stuff can be discarded as you are applying it into a context it does not belong. Kyouka uses a curse, she is not a neurosurgeon. You are acting like curses and magic, things that do not exist in the real world, somehow are just names for things that can easily be explained by real life science. They can't, at least not fully. You are assuming that her curse by default causes a physical change in her opponents, while it easily can have no direct physical change at all. It could potentially take way someone senses without changing anything physically. Why? Because it's a curse and it's Fairy Tail. That's the kind of logic you have to apply.
 
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Scorps

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It can extremely easy be like that. For starters three of those 5 senses actually are not really that important for such a situation. Your senses of smell and taste can, to put it blunt, be considered worthless. Your sense of hearing isn't that important in this particular situation and with one eye potentially working, the only sense she is actually really missing is her sense of touch. However under the assumption the she can see, she should be able to see where she could set her foot and how she would need to move her fist to hit Kyouka, even more so because the latter was practically standing in front of her. Then you also need to add the fact that Erza is an experienced warrior, she can use her feet to wield swords and fight with them. She has her fighting skills drilled into her muscles. But above all she can still use her "sense" of magic to be aware of the magic in her body.

I also heard a few days ago that having only 5 senses is actually a myth, that in reality we have over twenty, like for example your sense of balance. Taken these 5 are the big ones, but still it remains so that Erza just having one eye working is enough to easily accept her hitting Kyouka like that.
Adding a fun fact to this, its actually considered by the scientific community that humans have 18 senses.

The commonly held human senses are as follows:

  • Sight: This technically is two senses given the two distinct types of receptors present, one for color (cones) and one for brightness (rods).
  • Taste: This is sometimes argued to be five senses by itself due to the differing types of taste receptors (sweet, salty, sour, bitter, and umami), but generally is just referred to as one sense. For those who don’t know, umami receptors detect the amino acid glutamate, which is a taste generally found in meat and some artificial flavoring. The taste sense, unlike sight, is a sense based off of a chemical reaction
  • Touch: This has been found to be distinct from pressure, temperature, pain, and even itch sensors.
  • Pressure: Obvious sense is obvious. ;-)
  • Itch: Surprisingly, this is a distinct sensor system from other touch-related senses.
  • Thermoception: Ability to sense heat and cold. This also is thought of as more than one sense. This is not just because of the two hot/cold receptors, but also because there is a completely different type of thermoceptor, in terms of the mechanism for detection, in the brain. These thermoceptors in the brain are used for monitoring internal body temperature.
  • Sound: Detecting vibrations along some medium, such as air or water that is in contact with your ear drums.
  • Smell: Yet another of the sensors that work off of a chemical reaction. This sense combines with taste to produce flavors.
  • Proprioception: This sense gives you the ability to tell where your body parts are, relative to other body parts. This sense is one of the things police officers test when they pull over someone who they think is driving drunk. The “close your eyes and touch your nose” test is testing this sense. This sense is used all the time in little ways, such as when you scratch an itch on your foot, but never once look at your foot to see where your hand is relative to your foot.
  • Tension Sensors: These are found in such places as your muscles and allow the brain the ability to monitor muscle tension.
  • Nociception: In a word, pain. This was once thought to simply be the result of overloading other senses, such as “touch”, but this has been found not to be the case and instead, it is its own unique sensory system. There are three distinct types of pain receptors: cutaneous (skin), somatic (bones and joints), and visceral (body organs).
  • Equilibrioception: The sense that allows you to keep your balance and sense body movement in terms of acceleration and directional changes. This sense also allows for perceiving gravity. The sensory system for this is found in your inner ears and is called the vestibular labyrinthine system. Anyone who’s ever had this sense go out on them on occasion knows how important this is. When it’s not working or malfunctioning, you literally can’t tell up from down and moving from one location to another without aid is nearly impossible.
  • Stretch Receptors: These are found in such places as the lungs, bladder, stomach, and the gastrointestinal tract. A type of stretch receptor, that senses dilation of blood vessels, is also often involved in headaches.
  • Chemoreceptors: These trigger an area of the medulla in the brain that is involved in detecting blood born hormones and drugs. It also is involved in the vomiting reflex.
  • Thirst: This system more or less allows your body to monitor its hydration level and so your body knows when it should tell you to drink.
  • Hunger: This system allows your body to detect when you need to eat something.
  • Magentoception: This is the ability to detect magnetic fields, which is principally useful in providing a sense of direction when detecting the Earth’s magnetic field. Unlike most birds, humans do not have a strong magentoception, however, experiments have demonstrated that we do tend to have some sense of magnetic fields. The mechanism for this is not completely understood; it is theorized that this has something to do with deposits of ferric iron in our noses. This would make sense if that is correct as humans who are given magnetic implants have been shown to have a much stronger magnetoception than humans without.
  • Time: This one is debated as no singular mechanism has been found that allows people to perceive time. However, experimental data has conclusively shown humans have a startling accurate sense of time, particularly when younger. The mechanism we use for this seems to be a distributed system involving the cerebral cortex, cerebellum, and basal ganglia. Long term time keeping seems to be monitored by the suprachiasmatic nuclei (responsible for the circadian rhythm). Short term time keeping is handled by other cell systems.
 

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You are approaching this completely the wrong way. They're mages and demons, while you are seeing this like they are regular people where on one of the two a neurosurgeon locked of some senses. That logic is misplaced.

Evergreen could turn people to stone by looking them into the eyes, still it didn't work when Erza only used her artificial eye. Why? Why would it matter that her eye is artificial? It does the exact same thing as her regular eye and should be connected more or less the same way as her original eye was with her brain. In the end the components of her original eye got replaced with other components that do the exact same thing. Logically speaking whether she has an artificial eye or not, it shouldn't matter, she should have been turned to stone by Evergreen. But she didn't. Why? Because her eye is artificial. It's 'different'. That's the logic you apply to FT. Hence Erza having an artificial eye is enough a reason to justify her being able to do what she did.

All your neurological stuff can be discarded as you are applying it into a context it does not belong. Kyouka uses a curse, she is not a neurosurgeon. You are acting like curses and magic, things that do not exist in the real world, somehow are just names for things that can easily be explained by real life science. They can't, at least not fully. You are assuming that her curse by default causes a physical change in her opponents, while it easily can have no direct physical change at all. It could potentially take way someone senses without changing anything physically. Why? Because it's a curse and it's Fairy Tail. That's the kind of logic you have to apply.



I realise whilst these are mages but at the end of the day all are humans not ethereal spirits and are bound by the laws of biology, a person is killed by Elfman's magic not because of certain magical element but due to his increased strength he causes blunt force trauma or any other traumatic injury to the body, Grey will surely use his ice magic to defeat an individual but his ice magic effects that individuals body i.e his ice magic might cause plethora of biological effects from hypothermia, frost bite to trauma.


Kyouka uses her Sensation Curse, which heightened Erza's response to pain due to torture and also rendered her 5 main senses useless, these two things in real life are contradictory as without her sense of "touch" she wouldn't feel the pain and this is possible only if Kyouka was effecting her mind not her body.
She chose to pause any external Stimuli, which Erza could use in battle but allowed her brain to perceive pain, this can only happen if her curse works on Erza's mind i.e. on a neurological level.

Also Erza could overcome it due to her will power i.e. she took control of her brain back, this would have been impossible had Kyouka's curse be of external nature.

Kyouka's curse is different from say the magic Natsu uses as his magical is on the exterior physical level while her is internal.

This theory of mine may be a long shot but it explains why Erza's seemingly "different" eyes failed to work.

In case of Evergreen the word "see" is important, those who can't aren't "affected" by it, hence it is an external Stimulus while Kyoka's curse appears to be internal and condition free which furthermore adds to the reason why Erza's artificial eye didn't work.

She doesn't have to be a neurosurgeon to put such a curse on Erza, this can be done by myriad of conditions, blocking her neural network and allowing only pain to be perceived is one such way, taking partial control of her brain etc etc.

I know it has no importance to Fairy Tail but many type of tumors in brain can cause the conditions or interference in neural conduction network due to a disease.


In the end I might be overthinking and trying to mix too much reality into FT but imho this is my theory and until we get an explanation in the manga, it might be right.
 
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