Ending the Senju/Uchiha debate

[Cryomancer Sub Zero]

End the debate for good. I'm honestly getting sick of their better than them and vice versa.

 

[Naruto UzRinneganMaki]

good

 

[Lord Snow]

Uchiha is still better

 

[Itachilover94]

well the Uchiha really didn't do anything I mean yea they were about to but never had the chance

instead of trying to talk them out of it or give them higher ranking in the village for them to change their mind everyone just said kill them

if you look at it all the Uchiha wanted was to be noticed and not pushed to the back and only used when they were needed

 

[NakedNinja]

tobi said all that not mardra :/ come on

 

[Cryomancer Sub Zero]

Uchiha is still better

The hell they are.

 

[Tosen]

uchiha is still better

senju/uzumaki all the way

 

[Cryomancer Sub Zero]

senju/uzumaki all the way

Still trying to stay out of this one lol.

 

[Tosen]

Still trying to stay out of this one lol.

It's best for you, this is a war between two different organizations, you don't wanna get in between the crossfires xd

 

[Cryomancer Sub Zero]

It's best for you, this is a war between two different organizations, you don't wanna get in between the crossfires xd

Nope. Keeping the Lin Kuei out of it lol, BTW how do I send out invitations? Cause that's the only way anyone will be able to join.

 

[lcart14]

I really dont see the point of arguing which clan was morally correct in their actions, they had been rivals for so long that im sure that had the shoe been on the other foot, we would run into a similar situation. Neither clan was truly correct in their actions. I doubt the senju were trying to kill the uchiha slowly, they both wanted peace, but there was some understandable paranoia, seeing as they had been at each others throats for so long.

Now for your proofs


Kushina and bee were in the same boat, they were both CHOSEN to become the jinchurikis, but how come you dont talk about bee?

If the senju were so power hungry, why did they distribute the tailed beasts they had under their control to the other countries? If i was power hungry id want those for myself. Guess why, to balance the power of the nations.

I dont know why you hate on tobirama so much, he created a technique that brings back the dead but obviously saw the moral repercussions and labeled it forbidden. Him creating the jutsu doesnt make him inherently bad, if anything hes a genius. Also him creating the konoha police force for the purposes of spying on the uchiha could easily be a lie tobi told sasuke to get him to turn out how he is now.

You cant blame tobirama for what orochimarua and kabuto did, he probably didnt know that his technique would create an army of zombies to be used in a war he never predicted to happen.

And how can you stand up for sasuke? Its no ones fault that he turned out how he did. The uchiha were the selfish ones. They wanted to turn the entire village into a warzone because they had "unfair treatment". Guess what? The village elders who blamed the uchiha werent senju. They thought the uchiha were behind the attack because guess why? AN UCHIHA (TOBI) WAS BEHIND THE ATTACK! Other than hashirama, who could control the nine tails? Well as it so happens, a famous uchiha was known for being able to do just that, Madara Uchiha. So the village elders were logical in thinking it was the uchiha.

Sasuke is the one going against itachis wishes and bringing all this death, because of his childish need for vengeance. And i guess we can blame tobi for that as well.

 

[Reborn]

I agree with some, but disagree also.

Your taking evidence from what Madara/Tobi and Sasuke have done and putting it on the Uchiha's. I didn't know those three summed up the population of the Uchiha's.

Tobi proved more evidence than your stating. As I said Madara/Tobi, Sasuke don't sum up the Uchiha clan. There behaviour and act isn't what the Uchiha like, which is why they turned their backs on Madara years back and as Tobi said, "Madara was betrayed, which is why he left the village."

You guys look at it the Uchiha clan was covered with people like Madara/Sasuke, but there couldn't have been people like Itachi/Shisui/Obito?

OP main point of this topic is, that not all Uchiha have that hatred, even during the planning of the attack, how do we know that all Uchiha were willing to do it? There is a lot to look into before pointing at the Uchiha as a whole for being a problem.

Not in my last post but in a couple others in this thread, the Uchiha clan, as a whole was plotting to overrun the village. Why else would they do it if not for self-satifying purposes, as they would cause civil war and eventually international war. So with that, we can place the Uchihas under this category as a whole.

Alot of people i think, do not understand what the thread was trying to put across.
What i will say is that even in this thread there is clear favouritism towards the senju clan, evident in the fact that people are actually trying to defend the creation of edo tensei by the 2nd hokage. I wonder whether they wouldve defended an uchiha if it was one of them who created such a technique.

Personally i believe kishi told us who created the technique for a reason. Now im not saying the 2nd hokage was bad, but i am saying that there are good and bad people from both clans therefore people saying senju=good and uchiha=evil isnt true

I'm not so much defending Edo Tensai in it's creation (badass jutsu though) but I defend Tobirama by asking this question, what were his intentions? If we don't know we can't conclude he meant for this technique to turn out in the specific way it did and we definately can't blame Edo Tensai entirly on Tobirama. He banned it, no other shinobi of his time knew it. Orochimaru stole it and re-opened it's pages and Kabuto extended on it, please don't forget it's not just the creator who gets blamed but those who use it in the way and for the purposes like Kabuto and Orochimaru.

 

[Jyuubislayer]

They are both equally hated by kyuubi :y

 

[Cryomancer Sub Zero]

Yeesh these really long explanations are making my head spin. >_<

 

[vandell]

The Senju banished the Uchiha to a lesser part of the village to keep them out of government affairs to make sure nothing like the Madara incident happened again. Do I think that they should've been discriminated against? No, but it was for the safety of the village

The Uchiha are the ones who tried a coup and they obviously didn't care about the safety of the village if they were planning this because they should've known starting a coup would destroy the village.

The Senju cared for the village while the Uchiha really didn't and that's proven by their supposed coup that they were planning. That's the difference between the 2 right there.

Still I don't believe the Uchiha are truly evil except for a few cases like Sasuke and Madara.

Hell if you ask me all the hokage except the four was evil. the first didn't select a uchiha after him to be hokage to show good will to the uchihas that the senjus really wanted peace. The second hokage made endo tensi which is crazy powerful. we having seen one kage that could beat endo tensi. The third hokage okay the Uchiha Clan Massacre, some evil s h it. If you think i'm wrong please tell me, f u c k the senjus there the ones with the hate not the uchihas, all the uchihas want is there revenge for the mistreatment of there people and I can can understand that. nothe senjus are evil

 

[Avani]

The OP is stating his point also. Although I know both sides wanted peace and to end the battles/war among one another.

Stating his point? Off course both sides would have wanted peace. But OP was making a weak attempt to make Uchihas look like peace loving simple minded people who just happen to be victims of the shinobi world. He even went on to add "always wanted peace" statement. While the statements, attitude of Uchiha prove that not to be a case all over manga.

Off course some of them wanted peace but clearly Madara, Izuna the leaders felt betrayed by it. The fact remains that Uchihas agreed for peace only after Madara was losing his eye sight and took Izuna's. It clearly showed the dangers of MS and limits of sharingan wars as well.

They had been in 2 shinobi wars already. Everyone wanted peace.

It wasn't up to the Uchiha, but if they desired they could have spoken to Senju saying neither member from both clans can be Hokage, as you said others were in the village, they could have had a neutral Hokage, but never the less the Uchiha respected the decision by the village and themselves.

That too wasn't upto Uchhas alone and wouldn't that would have dismissed any Uchiha's chance to becme a Hokage.. come on Relax I expected better that from you.

The big brother who started the Uchiha Senju rivalry just because his father thought Senju ancester to be better would put this condition?

Frankly that would be very stupid condition that strongest shinobi and the one who has the most people supporting him should not be in the power. That doesn't go well even in democracies and you are asking for that in a shinobi world. Konoha would have been handicapt.


Madara even said he saw peace and no violence till the day came to choose Hokage. Than Madara got paranoid that Hashirama may eliminate Uchiha, but than Uchiha spoke against him saying all he wanted was power, took his brothers eyes, and was trying to awaken old flames. They turned there back on Madara and followed the village. That's when Madara left and came back to challenge the village and Hashirama not for Hokage title tho, I think?

Clearly they were Uchihas who weren't impressed with Madara's people skills. :|

OK. He challanged Hshirama who he was HOkage.What do you think would have happenned if Madara had won that day?

The reason OP made this topic is due to the past 3-4 topics were people are saying all Uchiha are evil, arrogant, and power hungry, as were Senju were better than them. The only two are Madara and Sasuke who fit the category. The Uchiha as did Senju wanted peace once the village was formed. What Madara did effected the Uchiha at the end.

I have been here for two years now. I have seen similar threads before and it keeps popping up now and then. The fact remains that action of Uchiha clan was going to rebel and start yet another war, within 10 years of thirld shinobi world war. They could have talked and demanded their rights if they felt slighted. But they refused to talk.

I'm yet to find out where the hell they were at the time of Kyuubi attack.

The OP post was a bit over the top as he implied he ws the only one with clear understanding and every other member who doesn't agree with him a fool. At the same time he has nothing substential to back up his deductions. Random statement that at one particular time Uchihas wanted peace is neither here nor there.

Even terrorists keep going on peace truce for short periods. They use that time to gather their resources.:shrug:

 

[Reborn]

They are both equally hated by kyuubi :y

Yes, yes they are

 

[Daniel Uchiha]

To Blaze Release: You're over-thinking things...

 

[Reborn]

To Blaze Release: You're over-thinking things...

Maybe, but they're good points though.

 

[baknbits]

I don't agree with all your points but it was really well written and thought out so +rep for that.
But you also make it seem as if the entire Senju clan was being evil and oppressing the the Uchiha clan. Firstly, the Senju and Uchiha have always been rivals. True, they signed a treaty, but in a time of war what's to stop people from breaking the treaty? Maybe the Senju were afraid that there would be some that would follow in Madara's footsteps and set them aside in a specific part of the village. I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, but you can't call them evil for that. Also, we know that a lot of what Tobi has told us is a lie. What's to say that Tobi saying that Tobirama put aside the Uchiha clan in a part of the village so exclude them from the government and keep an eye of them? The Hyuga clan have their own section in the village. What if Tobirama was simply honoring them by giving them their own section like the Hyuga clan and believing in them enough to appoint them as the village police. Why would you want people you don't trust to be your police? You could say to keep an eye on them but there are many other ways to keep an eye on them without giving them too much power and also without seeming to be excluding them.
Regarding the edo tensei. It did turn out to be a terrible jutsu which is probably why the second himself labeled it a kinjutsu but what's to say that the 2nd had evil intentions behind making it? I'm sure there are many people who want to bring back fallen comrades or lost loved ones. Doesn't justify it, but I'm saying that maybe Tobirama didn't make it for evil purposes and he realized how bad it was so he labeled it a kinjutsu. Don't see how that makes him evil. Oro and Kabuto are abusing it.
All in all, good post, but I'm just saying that in some points you make similar assumptions about the Senju that people have made about the Uchiha.