Although most of what you say is based on assumptions im sure there were some parts tobi was sugar coating stuff. What i would say though is that both clans couldve handled things differently therefore there isnt really such a thing as senju=good, uchiha=evil
But I'm asking, what did the Senju do wrong to the Uchihas or the village? Also the whole police thing is based off the words of a known liar. Was he lying or was he telling the truth? We don't know, to say otherwise would be an assumption, which is the same as what I did, that was really the point I was making.
The Senju and Uchiha had no beef with each other until the Madara incident happened and that's when the 2nd Hokage banished the Uchiha's to a separate part of the village. Also all the higher ups in the leaf knew the fox could be controlled by Madara hence them suspecting the Uchiha of the incident.
I know Sasuke has been manipulated throughout his life but like I said everybody has a choice and Sasuke's no exception to that. Everything he's done he's chosen to do of his own free will.
But I'm asking, what did the Senju do wrong to the Uchihas or the village? Also the whole police thing is based off the words of a known liar. Was he lying or was he telling the truth? We don't know, to say otherwise would be an assumption, which is the same as what I did, that was really the point I was making.
At the highlighted part. They started the discrimination from the very start.
Well until we get more info and not just what tobi said i personally believe this is plausible. He has lied by from what we know about the itachi story its true. Not to forget what kushina told us but also the creation of the edo tensei by the 2nd
The Senju and Uchiha had no beef with each other until the Madara incident happened and that's when the 2nd Hokage banished the Uchiha's to a separate part of the village. Also all the higher ups in the leaf knew the fox could be controlled by Madara hence them suspecting the Uchiha of the incident.
I know Sasuke has been manipulated throughout his life but like I said everybody has a choice and Sasuke's no exception to that. Everything he's done he's chosen to do of his own free will.
Although we have agreed on things in the past its very rare.
Seems like we have to agree to disagree.
What i will say is that what madara did, did not warrant the senju discriminating, after all isnt it the same uchiha clan that chose a senju leader as village leader. This alone should show trust. If this doesnt i dont know what does.
As for the sasuke thing we again have to agree to disagree, but its clear that a chain events from the past is what has made him who he is
At the highlighted part. They started the discrimination from the very start.
Well until we get more info and not just what tobi said i personally believe this is plausible. He has lied by from what we know about the itachi story its true. Not to forget what kushina told us but also the creation of the edo tensei by the 2nd
I honestly don't see how they started anything if nothing was confirmed really. I mean if Hashirama was elected Hokage by everybody in the village and didn't just usuerp power then we don't have a strive for power steming from the Senju. Nothing was wrong until Madara got on edge and decided to defect and fight against Hashirama again.
See, right there, that bolded part is your opinion on what you view to be a source of Senju discrimination against the Uchiha, while the words of Tobi have been confirmed on, at least one occasion (that I can remember anywayxd I'm doing Pre-calc right not I'm not too focused) to be lies. When he said he was Madara Uchiha. There isn't anything to tell us that Tobi was telling the truth. I believe we had a similar conversation about Kabuto's telling the truth with Edo Tensai just yesterday in fact.
What I'm getting as is anybody can say Senju did this and that to supress the Uchiha and another can say well Tobi is a liar so how can we trust he was telling the truth in that situation, especially with his bias.
Another thing you reminded me to address. Just because Kushina was brought to Konoha to have the Bijuu sealed within her, what makes you think that's the Senju's doing? I mean both Tobirama and Hashirama were dead when Kushina came over, Hiruzen was Hokage at that time. Hiruzen wasn't Senju, he was trained by them but ultimately he's his own person. Hiruzen seemed to be more peace loving in his regime. Not only that, but because the Senju and Uzumaki shared strong bonds with one another and Kushina became Jinchuuriki, that automatically makes Senju responsible for the downplaying the Uzumaki? I mean with their powerful sealing techniques, why couldn't the Uzumaki's have said no if they so wished about the Jinchuuriki? They were the ones with the best candidates for Jinchuuriki and the method to seal them, they had choice enough to say no if they wished an potentially not worry about Konoha attacking them for rejection. Reasons
1) Wipe out Uzumakis themselvs, Mito is soon to die they loose their Jinchuuriki and they loose methods to seal the Bijuu unless Hiruzen knew the sealing jutsu of the Uzumaki at the time and had a person with large enough stores of chakra to seal it in.
2) Hiruzen being the man of peice he was so famous for, why would he attack even if the village said no.
Uzumaki had authority with their members and to that I say, the Senju didn't really have authority over Uzumaki nor did manipulate them, the Uzumaki were willing in these endovers because of their natural bound loyalty to the Senju.
Although we have agreed on things in the past its very rare.
Seems like we have to agree to disagree.
What i will say is that what madara did, did not warrant the senju discriminating, after all isnt it the same uchiha clan that chose a senju leader as village leader. This alone should show trust. If this doesnt i dont know what does.
As for the sasuke thing we again have to agree to disagree, but its clear that a chain events from the past is what has made him who he is
I honestly don't see how they started anything if nothing was confirmed really. I mean if Hashirama was elected Hokage by everybody in the village and didn't just usuerp power then we don't have a strive for power steming from the Senju. Nothing was wrong until Madara got on edge and decided to defect and fight against Hashirama again.
See, right there, that bolded part is your opinion on what you view to be a source of Senju discrimination against the Uchiha, while the words of Tobi have been confirmed on, at least one occasion (that I can remember anywayxd I'm doing Pre-calc right not I'm not too focused) to be lies. When he said he was Madara Uchiha. There isn't anything to tell us that Tobi was telling the truth. I believe we had a similar conversation about Kabuto's telling the truth with Edo Tensai just yesterday in fact.
What I'm getting as is anybody can say Senju did this and that to supress the Uchiha and another can say well Tobi is a liar so how can we trust he was telling the truth in that situation, especially with his bias.
Another thing you reminded me to address. Just because Kushina was brought to Konoha to have the Bijuu sealed within her, what makes you think that's the Senju's doing? I mean both Tobirama and Hashirama were dead when Kushina came over, Hiruzen was Hokage at that time. Hiruzen wasn't Senju, he was trained by them but ultimately he's his own person. Hiruzen seemed to be more peace loving in his regime. Not only that, but because the Senju and Uzumaki shared strong bonds with one another and Kushina became Jinchuuriki, that automatically makes Senju responsible for the downplaying the Uzumaki? I mean with their powerful sealing techniques, why couldn't the Uzumaki's have said no if they so wished about the Jinchuuriki? They were the ones with the best candidates for Jinchuuriki and the method to seal them, they had choice enough to say no if they wished an potentially not worry about Konoha attacking them for rejection. Reasons
1) Wipe out Uzumakis themselvs, Mito is soon to die they loose their Jinchuuriki and they loose methods to seal the Bijuu unless Hiruzen knew the sealing jutsu of the Uzumaki at the time and had a person with large enough stores of chakra to seal it in.
2) Hiruzen being the man of peice he was so famous for, why would he attack even if the village said no.
Uzumaki had authority with their members and to that I say, the Senju didn't really have authority over Uzumaki nor did manipulate them, the Uzumaki were willing in these endovers because of their natural bound loyalty to the Senju.
Whilst its true that i used my own opinion its been backed by manga facts although i agree that tobi could be trolling again, BUT some of the things he said was also true. It can go either way until we get more info.
For the kushina thing you countered it very well in using sarutobi who was hokage at the time. Ill + rep you for that. What we both acknowledged was that he was the teacher of both the 1st and 2nd therefore he couldve followed their ways (will of fire). If this is true and knowing the link between the previous hokages (senju) and the uzumaki's, he couldve used this to his advantage for a search for a new vessel for the fox. From what we know kushina didnt have a say in the matter.
Its about time this discussion gets put to rest. Its almost as if people cannot read, refuse to read and instead just look at the manga pics or are just plain ignorant. Either way ill enlighten you'll; the facts about the Uchiha and the Senju.
Now i keep hearing people saying that the uchiha were evil and the senju were good. Allow me annihilate that myth.
From what we know the senju offered the uchiha a peace treaty and the uchiha accpeted because they also wanted peace;
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From what we know the uchiha accepted hashirama the senju leader as the first hokage instead of their own leader madara;
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The uchiha turned their back on madara *(their leader) because they wanted peace;
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They started despise him due to his power hungry and war ways. Madara translanted this as them betraying him;
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So from what we know so far the uchiha also wanted peace and accepted the senju leader hashirama as the leader of the village over their own leader and later despised their leader as a power hungry war lover.
The second hokage trying to play nice and giving the uchiha a 'special' role;
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But this was the truth behind the so called special role;
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The uchiha were blamed/suspected of the fox's attack. This shows that whilst the uchiha had complete faith in the senju and accepted their leader as the hokage, the senju on the otherhand didnt trust the uchiha;
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They were further pushed into isolation;
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So from what we know the uchiha accepted the senju peace treaty because they always wanted peace. The stood behind the senju leader and cast away their own leader because they believe he was a power hungry war lover. It seems like whilst the uchiha fully trusted the senju, the senju didnt as tobirama has showed us with his so called special role and as the elders has shown us. They have been further isolated. From what we know which clan seem like the victims?.
The A coup D'etat was bound to happen sooner or later. Just imagine this in real life or relate it to history where a group of people have been discriminated for so long. They are eventually bound to respond. The fact that the uchiha have waited so long to finally respond says shows that they of all people have patience
;
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They took advantage of 12 year old due to his trauma;
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They abused his love for the village;
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And ordered him to wipe out his clan. His clan that had the right to finally stand up for themselves;
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Now that the Uchiha has had enough and have decided to stand up for themselves, now sarutobi wants to sort things out (not his fault though, be he is still the hokage he shouldve done something before all this);
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He was given the orders to kill everyone uchiha (who had the right to demand justice), but he couldnt kill sasuke;
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The only conciliation sarutobi could do was to protect sasuke from the elders, especially danzou;
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So tell me which clan seem victims. From what ive read it seems like the senju tricked the uhciha, this is debeatable though. From what ive seen its seems like they used the peace treaty as a strategy to form an alliance wit the uchiha to later slowly kill them off. When an uchiha (madara) saw what was happening the uchiha already trusted this peace treaty. When madara attacked and the 2nd hokage saw that they might be similar people following madara's footsteps he used a wise stragety with the special role nonsense.
How can Kushina say she was chosen to become a jinchurcki. How come she doesnt have a choice;
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Senju taking advantage of the uzumaki clan;
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Once naruto heard the truth, even he got worked up. Basically because they used his mother, similarly to the way itachi was used and abused (A hero was instead put into the bingo book to kill when encountered);
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So now they have taken advantage of the uchiha and uzumaki.
This is where you learn exactly what i mean. We all know about edo tensei.
In order to use it you have to use LIVE human beings as sacrifices. Now the second hokage Tobirama created such a technique. He mustve used live human beings either from the village, war prisoners. Either in order to create such a technique you have to have experimented;
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Even madara who has been considered evil frowned up such a technique;
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Seems like even a power hungry madara knew the limits, yet tobirama didnt and created such a kinjutsu (forbidden technique). I challenge you to name me a kinjutsu that is on par with edo tensei in terms of how evil and atrocious it is. What poeple dont understand is that the only true 'evil' uchiha's we know are madara and sasuke and in either case their arent evil.
Its this same technique that brought the downfall of sarutobi. This same technique that is currently being used by the opposition. Its this same technique that has brought fought an upgraded madara
Madara you might question him idea of peace, but in either case he seems to want peace. In sasuke's case, its due to a chain of events which caused him to become like this. His hate is stemmed from what the senju did. If the senju from the beginning had treated the uchiha fairly they wouldnt have tried to take over the village, therefore itachi's mission would also non-existent
Yea one tiny problem with all that. This all based on the gospel according to Tobi. We all know how he tells the truth all the time. Its not like he'll try and change some parts of the story to make the Uchiha victims.
Yea one tiny problem with all that. This all based on the gospel according to Tobi. We all know how he tells the truth all the time. Its not like he'll try and change some parts of the story to make the Uchiha victims.
Whilst its true that i used my own opinion its been backed by manga facts although i agree that tobi could be trolling again, BUT some of the things he said was also true. It can go either way until we get more info.
For the kushina thing you countered it very well in using sarutobi who was hokage at the time. Ill + rep you for that. What we both acknowledged was that he was the teacher of both the 1st and 2nd therefore he couldve followed their ways (will of fire). If this is true and knowing the link between the previous hokages (senju) and the uzumaki's, he couldve used this to his advantage for a search for a new vessel for the fox. From what we know kushina didnt have a say in the matter.
That's the only thing I'm trying to say, we can argue back and forth about Tobirama's true intentions but the thing is Kishi could've been trolling. Perfectly honest right now...I believe Tobirama did the police thing to keep an eye on them, but my friend who is a die hard Tobirama and Hashirama fan says that there is no way Tobirama would do that he wouldn't be that underhanded...I'd bring up Edo Tensai and he'd tell me to shut up (because he know's I'm right). Tobirama is my favorite character in the series but I can see he has his skeletons, I'm just saying I could argue the other way because we've heard only one side of the story and that was practically it. I wanted to point that out is all. I believe Tobirama was justified but I don't think I'll have time before I have to roll out to explain.
Will of Fire is the entire village. I'm not saying Hashi and Tobi didn't start that way of the shinobi, infact I am saying it. I'm just saying that the will of fire was passed down starting from the first generation of Hokage and breaths today...however, looking at Hiruzen (when talking to Asuma), Asuma (RIP), Shikamaru, Naruto, and others...is the will of fire something that seems like a decietful or trick of two shinobi who are devious. I know we're not talking about Senju or Uchiha good and evil but to say the Senju were just as bad as the Uchihas is very unlikely to me for those reasons (will of fire).
What you said about Hiruzen using the Senju Uzumaki relationship to his advantage implies his acting away from the senju way and on his own. Bringing up the relationship shows that the Senju and Uzumaki lived together, both harmoniously with one another as comrades. By saying Hiruzen could use that to his advantage it's like you're saying that Hiruzen would be using an already existing partnership. That would only mean the Uzumaki were willing in participating in the affairs of Konoha in this matter and the Senju had nothing to do with it in terms of "forcing them" or manipulating them. Regardless, Uzumaki could still have the say in the matter as their techniques and clan members are too precious to Konoha for them to risk loosing them.
It's obvious Kushina had no choice but that is just as much her clan's fault as it could be Hiruzen's or the village. At this point we can no longer truely allianate the Senjus as the two main characters of focus are both dead at this point and another liniage takes over.
Now we can all say that acts of 1, 2, or 3 people from a clan, don't determine a steriotype for the other members within that. That's clear with Itachi, Shisui and Obito who are obviously not evil. However one thing I do have to my defense of my topic over you (with all respect that is). The coup de tat was a plan for the entire Uchiha clan's shinobi fighters (children and potential non-shinobi excluded) to overthrow the village. You said they did it to stand up for themselves, by doing so that would mean civil war and the deaths of countless others and eventually international war, which would've been selfish in the quest of pride...The Senju clan has no no account (that we know of yet) of such feats or attempts.
The Uchihas have not only fought amongst the Senju but themselves as well so how can they truely be a clan worthy of trust and how are the Senju equally as devious?
I can't rep you again yet I'll rep some more people to get back to you. Sorry for the wall
Well Itachi was a spy for Danzu and the elders not the senju as whole
And for Kushina it was said she was chosen. Nothing about it being forced on her.
And the 2nd Hokage might have created Edo tensei but there's no proof of it being used the way Oro and Kabuto are using it. Infact didnt Oro invent the seal the takes the edo's will away from them? For all we know he could have stumbled on Edo tensei because he was researching on ways to revive fallen comrades.
That's the only thing I'm trying to say, we can argue back and forth about Tobirama's true intentions but the thing is Kishi could've been trolling. Perfectly honest right now...I believe Tobirama did the police thing to keep an eye on them, but my friend who is a die hard Tobirama and Hashirama fan says that there is no way Tobirama would do that he wouldn't be that underhanded...I'd bring up Edo Tensai and he'd tell me to shut up (because he know's I'm right). Tobirama is my favorite character in the series but I can see he has his skeletons, I'm just saying I could argue the other way because we've heard only one side of the story and that was practically it. I wanted to point that out is all. I believe Tobirama was justified but I don't think I'll have time before I have to roll out to explain.
Will of Fire is the entire village. I'm not saying Hashi and Tobi didn't start that way of the shinobi, infact I am saying it. I'm just saying that the will of fire was passed down starting from the first generation of Hokage and breaths today...however, looking at Hiruzen (when talking to Asuma), Asuma (RIP), Shikamaru, Naruto, and others...is the will of fire something that seems like a decietful or trick of two shinobi who are devious. I know we're not talking about Senju or Uchiha good and evil but to say the Senju were just as bad as the Uchihas is very unlikely to me for those reasons (will of fire).
What you said about Hiruzen using the Senju Uzumaki relationship to his advantage implies his acting away from the senju way and on his own. Bringing up the relationship shows that the Senju and Uzumaki lived together, both harmoniously with one another as comrades. By saying Hiruzen could use that to his advantage it's like you're saying that Hiruzen would be using an already existing partnership. That would only mean the Uzumaki were willing in participating in the affairs of Konoha in this matter and the Senju had nothing to do with it in terms of "forcing them" or manipulating them. Regardless, Uzumaki could still have the say in the matter as their techniques and clan members are too precious to Konoha for them to risk loosing them.
It's obvious Kushina had no choice but that is just as much her clan's fault as it could be Hiruzen's or the village. At this point we can no longer truely allianate the Senjus as the two main characters of focus are both dead at this point and another liniage takes over.
Now we can all say that acts of 1, 2, or 3 people from a clan, don't determine a steriotype for the other members within that. That's clear with Itachi, Shisui and Obito who are obviously not evil. However one thing I do have to my defense of my topic over you (with all respect that is). The coup de tat was a plan for the entire Uchiha clan's shinobi fighters (children and potential non-shinobi excluded) to overthrow the village. You said they did it to stand up for themselves, by doing so that would mean civil war and the deaths of countless others and eventually international war, which would've been selfish in the quest of pride...The Senju clan has no no account (that we know of yet) of such feats or attempts.
The Uchihas have not only fought amongst the Senju but themselves as well so how can they truely be a clan worthy of trust and how are the Senju equally as devious?
I can't rep you again yet I'll rep some more people to get back to you. Sorry for the wall
You are the very few who im willing to read their wall no jutsu xd.
I can counterall youve said but this thread wasnt necessarily to say senju=bully, uchiha= victims. This thread was to show that both clans clouldve handled things differently but also clan members have made mistakes in the past therefore nobody can say senju=good, uchiha= evil
Well Itachi was a spy for Danzu and the elders not the senju as whole
And for Kushina it was said she was chosen. Nothing about it being forced on her.
And the 2nd Hokage might have created Edo tensei but there's no proof of it being used the way Oro and Kabuto are using it. Infact didnt Oro invent the seal the takes the edo's will away from them? For all we know he could have stumbled on Edo tensei because he was researching on ways to revive fallen comrades.
Being chosen is the same as being forced. Again from the links ive showed id doesnt seem like she was exactly excited about the idea of not only leaving her village and becoming a foreigner in a village but also becoming a jinchrucki. Now imagine a foreigner would most likely suffer from loneliness to begin with, if add the fact that she was made a jinchrucki on top of it should tell you the life she lived. Infact from what we saw she behaved similar to naruto when he was abused.
Whether the 2nd used it his way or oro/kabuto's way its still wrong. It requires LEAVING human sacrifices. It doesnt matter how he used it, you trying to actually defend this is scary O.O
You are the very few who im willing to read their wall no jutsu xd.
I can counterall youve said but this thread wasnt necessarily to say senju=bully, uchiha= victims. This thread was to show that both clans clouldve handled things differently but also clan members have made mistakes in the past therefore nobody can say senju=good, uchiha= evil
Being chosen is the same as being forced. Again from the links ive showed id doesnt seem like she was exactly excited about the idea of not only leaving her village and becoming a foreigner in a village but also becoming a jinchrucki. Now imagine a foreigner would most likely suffer from loneliness to begin with, if add the fact that she was made a jinchrucki on top of it should tell you the life she lived. Infact from what we saw she behaved similar to naruto when he was abused.
Whether the 2nd used it his way or oro/kabuto's way its still wrong. It requires LEAVING human sacrifices. It doesnt matter how he used it, you trying to actually defend this is scary O.O
Obvious there are mistakes made on each side but I'm not sure Senju have much to be shameful for or regretful for. I understand that you're saying that nobody's good or evil here. However, the Uchiha clan has more of a hateful and dark streak to them then the Senju. Not only have individual members been picked out from their clan (Izuna, Madara, possibly Tobi if he's an Uchiha) but the entire clan as a whole has been pick out in a conspiracy to overthrow the village for reasons of pride, where as for the Senju, the most we have on them is Hashirama and Tobirama and really only Tobirama has the main sources for argument.
Edo Tensai (irrefutable)
Konoha MPS (debatable)
Another Debatable fact that we have on the Uchihas is their possible participation in the destruction of Konoha during the Kyuubi attack, of which I've already said. That is debatable but not to far as it's merely speculation at this point and I admit that.
I still hold true that the Uchihas are/were too full of pride while the Senju can't be argued so much as a clan with equal shamefulness. Also I don't believe Uzumaki are much of a forced participation with the Senju, just because Kushina was forced to become a jinchuuriki, it could've (most likly was) the will of her clan just as much as it was Konoha. Mito was Hashirama's wife, obviously she was a willing participant in her sealing of the Kyuubi within herselfxd
You are the very few who im willing to read their wall no jutsu xd.
I can counterall youve said but this thread wasnt necessarily to say senju=bully, uchiha= victims. This thread was to show that both clans clouldve handled things differently but also clan members have made mistakes in the past therefore nobody can say senju=good, uchiha= evil
Being chosen is the same as being forced. Again from the links ive showed id doesnt seem like she was exactly excited about the idea of not only leaving her village and becoming a foreigner in a village but also becoming a jinchrucki. Now imagine a foreigner would most likely suffer from loneliness to begin with, if add the fact that she was made a jinchrucki on top of it should tell you the life she lived. Infact from what we saw she behaved similar to naruto when he was abused.
Whether the 2nd used it his way or oro/kabuto's way its still wrong. It requires LEAVING human sacrifices. It doesnt matter how he used it, you trying to actually defend this is scary O.O
Inventing a jutsu doesnt mean he actually used it. For e.g The fourth invented death reaper seal but never used it until the kyubi attacked.
And for Kushina it was more likely she asked to be a jinchuriki. Ofc she cant say no because in the shinobi world thats turning your back on your country. Thats no fault of the senjus.
Inventing a jutsu doesnt mean he actually used it. For e.g The fourth invented death reaper seal but never used it until the kyubi attacked.
And for Kushina it was more likely she asked to be a jinchuriki. Ofc she cant say no because in the shinobi world thats turning your back on your country. Thats no fault of the senjus.
I believe Tobi to have some control or level of use with Edo Tensai as it seemed he was international for the jutsu. Muu knew about it and that was during Tobirama's time meaning he had to have had some knowledge on how to use it if forgin shinobi knew about it. I believe he had use over it and has used it in the past but once he did labled it Kin and hid it away.
Obvious there are mistakes made on each side but I'm not sure Senju have much to be shameful for or regretful for. I understand that you're saying that nobody's good or evil here. However, the Uchiha clan has more of a hateful and dark streak to them then the Senju. Not only have individual members been picked out from their clan (Izuna, Madara, possibly Tobi if he's an Uchiha) but the entire clan as a whole has been pick out in a conspiracy to overthrow the village for reasons of pride, where as for the Senju, the most we have on them is Hashirama and Tobirama and really only Tobirama has the main sources for argument.
Edo Tensai (irrefutable)
Konoha MPS (debatable)
Another Debatable fact that we have on the Uchihas is their possible participation in the destruction of Konoha during the Kyuubi attack, of which I've already said. That is debatable but not to far as it's merely speculation at this point and I admit that.
I still hold true that the Uchihas are/were too full of pride while the Senju can't be argued so much as a clan with equal shamefulness. Also I don't believe Uzumaki are much of a forced participation with the Senju, just because Kushina was forced to become a jinchuuriki, it could've (most likly was) the will of her clan just as much as it was Konoha. Mito was Hashirama's wife, obviously she was a willing participant in her sealing of the Kyuubi within herselfxd
At the highlighted part this dark past about the uchiha is mostly to do with the older son and tobi possible trolling about the uchiha having a past of hatred/curse.
As for them trying to plan to overtake the village ive already explained that, it was bound to happen. After generations of being discriminated against, its bound to happen.
What is true is that the konoha higher up definitely had a hand in the slaughtering of the village by using itachi.
What we do know that is true is itachi life
Kushina's life
Tobirama created edo tensei
The only thing we arent sure about is what tobi said about the start of the village and the discrimination issue. We need more info before he judge whether tobi was trolling or telling the truth
Well one thing everyone seems to be forgetting is how the Uchiha killed each other to awaken ms and gouged out their brothers' eyes for ems. That for me is the difference between someone who's evil and someone who's just misguided or misunderstood.
For example Nagato and Sasuke. You can see despite Nagato losing his way, he still treated Konan like a friend and even protected.
Sasuke on the other hand was going to kill Karin because she's no longer of use to her. Despite the fact that she's been helping him in his so called quest for revenge.
Inventing a jutsu doesnt mean he actually used it. For e.g The fourth invented death reaper seal but never used it until the kyubi attacked.
And for Kushina it was more likely she asked to be a jinchuriki. Ofc she cant say no because in the shinobi world thats turning your back on your country. Thats no fault of the senjus.
Firstly the 4th hokage was taught that technique by kushina he didnt create it.
Secondly what you fail to get is that in order to invent such a technique you wouldve have to have experimented. Either experimenting or using it he wouldve have to have used leaving human beings
Firstly the 4th hokage was taught that technique by kushina he didnt create it.
Secondly what you fail to get is that in order to invent such a technique you wouldve have to have experimented. Either experimenting or using it he wouldve have to have used leaving human beings
