Ending the MYTH about Sarutobi Hiruzen's Ninjutsu pool

Blaze Release

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Ive always wanted to put this topic to rest. I decided not to because it was bound to be time consuming but lately ive seen people given sarutobi techniques such us bringer of darkness, ftg and rasengan and personally i believe they got what oro was trying to say wrong. Either way i intend on putting this topic to bed.

In the link below we see oro saying saying that Sarutobi was called the professor for knowing and being able to use all the ninjutsu's that exist in konoha.

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What people fail to get is that in naruto there has been many things said by characters whom are either exaggerating, inaccurate, lying or have been proven wrong as the series goes on. The way i translated what oro was saying is basically he knows alot of konoha's techniques.

Firstly what ill say to what he said is that, if we take what he said word for word, it would include Kekeganki and hidden techniques and obviously sarutobi cannot use these. Ive already established that what oro said is inaccurate, but was merely exaggerating sarutobi's ninjutsu pool.

Allow me to explain further. We know that the 5 basic elements are fire,wind, lightning, earth and water;
You must be registered for see images


Their strength and weaknesses in relation to the other;
You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images


More on how the chakra elements work;
You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images

Naruto's dominant chakra element is wind;
You must be registered for see images

So far we know about the 5 elements and their strength and weaknesses in relation to the other. We also know that every ninja has a dominant chakra element affiliation. Naruto being wind, kakashi being lightning.

Now we know that there are ninja's who can not only use their dominant chakra element but also their second dominant chakra affiliation, although you have to be very skilled. Yamato demonstrating;
You must be registered for see images


As kakashi said, jonin level can use their second dominant chakra elementary affiliation;
You must be registered for see images

So from what we know, every ninja has a dominant chakra affiliation. But high level ninja's can also use their second dominant chakra affiliation. Basically what im trying to say is that, nobodies chakra affiliation is 100% wind, water, lightning, etc. Everyone has a dominant one, but they can use their second dominant chakra affiliaiton depending on how skilled they are.

Now This is where Sarutobi comes in. From what we know his dominant chakra affiliaiton is fire, whilst his second is earth.
Sarutobi demonstrates Katon jutsu;
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You must be registered for see images


Sarutobi demonstrates Doton;
You must be registered for see images

This is where kakuzu comes in. Kakuzu is very important in this topic due to his abilities. Firstly we all know that kakuzu has 5 hearts he transplanted from previous ninja's he fought and killed and each heart uses an element. From what we know kakuzu has already used a earth element, which he used to solidify. From what we can see the heart kakashi destroyed was the water heart because he had 4 hearts left and 3 hearts were on the outside using fire, wind and lightning, whilst the other heart (Earth) was in him. Therefore its a safe assumption to say kakuzu's real chakra elementary is earth. Anyway the other hearts using elementary attacks;
Wind heart;
You must be registered for see images


Lightning heart;
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Fire heart;
You must be registered for see images

What i can see, it seems like its the heart that decides your chakra affiliation. Meaning your heart is in direct relation to what dominant chakra affiliation you are. The reason kakuzu was able to use different high level elementary attacks due to the hearts he has transplanted says it all;
You must be registered for see images

So now from what we know each ninja has their dominant chakra element, which is in direct relation to your heart. Elite ninja's can use their dominant chakra element, but can also use their second dominant, saying that although elite ninja's can use their second dominant elementary chakra, they cannot produce s- rank techniques because that isnt their dominant chakra.

I'll use kakashi as an example. We all know that kakashi's dominant elementary chakra affiliation is lightning and can use raikiri which is an s-rank lightning technique. We also know that he has been able to use other chakra affiliation attacks and its strongly hinted that his second dominant chakra affiliation is suiton, but due to this element being his second dominant chakra affiliation he cannot use s-rank suiton jutsu's.

What im trying to say is that although a ninja might have a dominant chakra elementary, they can use their second dominant chakra affiliation and even their third, depending on how skilled they are, but apart from their main chakra affiliation they cannot use s-rank techniques from their second and even third chakra element.

Look at it this way, ill use kakashi as an example. We know that his chakra affiliation is lightning, but his chakra isnt 100% lightning he has other elementary chakra in him to use. So for example lets say his chakra is composed of 70% lightning, 20% water and 10% earth. He can use s-rank lightning techniques but not s-rank earth techniques.

Back to sarutobi, konoha is a fairly sized village. There are many different elementary ninjutsu's ranging from S-rank to D-rank. From what we know his dominant is fire and his second is earth. He can use s-rank fire techniques but he cannot use s-rank earth techniques, let alone water, wind and lightning. Meaning he cannot possible have mastered all the techniques in konoha because if he either doesnt have that element at all, or that element isnt his strongest chakra affiliation he cannot use it. For example he cannot use chidori or raikiri.

From my knowledge the only person truly mastered and can use all elementary affiliation techniques ranging from S-rank to D- rank is nagato due to the abilities the rennigan gives him;
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Damn, finding manga images is very annoying, please read it all and enjoy :)
 
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Owarij

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slight errors

orochimaru never said he knows all jutsu in the leaf , thats impossible, he doesnt know wood release, and edo tensei does her?

The correct translation was , you ONCE knew all existing konoha jutsu
ex·ist·ing/igˈzistiNG/
Adjective:
In existence or operation at the time under consideration; current
You should know sharingan and byakugan aren't jutsu.. they are bloodline limits.. genetically passed down traits.... the thing they cast are jutsu- amaterasu, tsukyomi, kotoamatsuki....

Byakugan casts no jutsu... everyone can do gentle fist if trained.. you jsut release chakra in your palm... byakugan helps them see the chakra points, thus enabling them to close and open at their will..


Hiden techs can be learned by anyone... and you need to understand they weren't always hiden.... at 1 point in the history of konoha, the clans all came together and decided to stop teaching others the techs and keep them to their selves ,...

hiruzen was almost their at the beginning of konoha... shortly after it was created..... and in his time hiden techs were most like not hiden yet...
 

Itachi Namikaze

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Well I made a thread a while back that also proved Hiruzen could without a doubt not use every jutsu in Konoha.

And then afterwards I made a thread called Contradictions in the manga that proved that sometimes manga characters lie, they exaggerate, and sometimes they are outright wrong. Like when Hiruzen thought he stopped Orochimaru's summoning of Minato. That was all the information we had at that time so everyone assumed he was right, but right and wrong don't change with time. He was wrong then, it was just that no one knew any better.

Anyway yeah the point is Hiruzen does not have all the jutsu in Konoha.

And I dislike hype.
 

BigTDogg220

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Sarutobi hasn't learned all the techniques you listed and that's does not even include any Hyuga and Uchiha special techniques.

It's like Shikaku said legends are nearly always exaggerated, Sarutobi was a legend when Naruto started so he went from an awesome shinobi to "The God of shinobi" who can use wood style, lightning blade, ftg, rotation, rasengan....(I know he can't do these techniques, but this is how exaggerated he had become, this is for the person who only reads one line and retorts "You're wrong.")

I'd love to actually see the 3rd in his prime to end such exaggerations of his skill.
 

Blaze Release

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you can't end anything....
I agree but its worth a try xd

slight errors

orochimaru never said he knows all jutsu in the leaf , thats impossible, he doesnt know wood release, and edo tensei does her?

The correct translation was , you ONCE knew all existing konoha jutsu


You should know sharingan and byakugan aren't jutsu.. they are bloodline limits.. genetically passed down traits.... the thing they cast are jutsu- amaterasu, tsukyomi, kotoamatsuki....

Byakugan casts no jutsu... everyone can do gentle fist if trained.. you jsut release chakra in your palm... byakugan helps them see the chakra points, thus enabling them to close and open at their will..


Hiden techs can be learned by anyone... and you need to understand they weren't always hiden.... at 1 point in the history of konoha, the clans all came together and decided to stop teaching others the techs and keep them to their selves ,...

hiruzen was almost their at the beginning of konoha... shortly after it was created..... and in his time hiden techs were most like not hiden yet...
Ive already established that if we were to take oro's word for word, that would include kakaganki and hidden techniques and that isnt possible. This alone shows that what oro said is not true.

Ive further established that even if you take away kekeganki and hidden techniques, he still cannot have mastered all the ninjutsu's in konoha
 

Ninpou

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slight errors

orochimaru never said he knows all jutsu in the leaf , thats impossible, he doesnt know wood release, and edo tensei does her?

The correct translation was , you ONCE knew all existing konoha jutsu


You should know sharingan and byakugan aren't jutsu.. they are bloodline limits.. genetically passed down traits.... the thing they cast are jutsu- amaterasu, tsukyomi, kotoamatsuki....

Byakugan casts no jutsu... everyone can do gentle fist if trained.. you jsut release chakra in your palm... byakugan helps them see the chakra points, thus enabling them to close and open at their will..

The sharingan and byakugan are techniques since they provide advatages in combat when activated, they are called Dojutsu, Eye techniques.
 

Urda

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slight errors

orochimaru never said he knows all jutsu in the leaf , thats impossible, he doesnt know wood release, and edo tensei does her?

The correct translation was , you ONCE knew all existing konoha jutsu


You should know sharingan and byakugan aren't jutsu.. they are bloodline limits.. genetically passed down traits.... the thing they cast are jutsu- amaterasu, tsukyomi, kotoamatsuki....

Byakugan casts no jutsu... everyone can do gentle fist if trained.. you jsut release chakra in your palm... byakugan helps them see the chakra points, thus enabling them to close and open at their will..


Hiden techs can be learned by anyone... and you need to understand they weren't always hiden.... at 1 point in the history of konoha, the clans all came together and decided to stop teaching others the techs and keep them to their selves ,...

hiruzen was almost their at the beginning of konoha... shortly after it was created..... and in his time hiden techs were most like not hiden yet...
Ive always wanted to put this topic to rest. I decided not to because it was bound to be time consuming but lately ive seen people given sarutobi techniques such us bringer of darkness, ftg and rasengan and personally i believe they got what oro was trying to say wrong. Either way i intend on putting this topic to bed.

In the link below we see oro saying saying that Sarutobi was called the professor for knowing and being able to use all the ninjutsu's that exist in konoha.

You must be registered for see images
What people fail to get is that in naruto there has been many things said by characters whom are either exaggerating, inaccurate, lying or have been proven wrong as the series goes on. The way i translated what oro was saying is basically he knows alot of konoha's techniques.

Firstly what ill say to what he said is that, if we take what he said word for word, it would include Kekeganki and hidden techniques and obviously sarutobi cannot use these. Ive already established that what oro said is inaccurate, but was merely exaggerating sarutobi's ninjutsu pool.

Allow me to explain further. We know that the 5 basic elements are fire,wind, lightning, earth and water;
You must be registered for see images


Their strength and weaknesses in relation to the other;
You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images


More on how the chakra elements work;
You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images

Naruto's dominant chakra element is wind;
You must be registered for see images

So far we know about the 5 elements and their strength and weaknesses in relation to the other. We also know that every ninja has a dominant chakra element affiliation. Naruto being wind, kakashi being lightning.

Now we know that there are ninja's who can not only use their dominant chakra element but also their second dominant chakra affiliation, although you have to be very skilled. Yamato demonstrating;
You must be registered for see images


As kakashi said, jonin level can use their second dominant chakra elementary affiliation;
You must be registered for see images

So from what we know, every ninja has a dominant chakra affiliation. But high level ninja's can also use their second dominant chakra affiliation. Basically what im trying to say is that, nobodies chakra affiliation is 100% wind, water, lightning, etc. Everyone has a dominant one, but they can use their second dominant chakra affiliaiton depending on how skilled they are.

Now This is where Sarutobi comes in. From what we know his dominant chakra affiliaiton is fire, whilst his second is earth.
Sarutobi demonstrates Katon jutsu;
You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images


Sarutobi demonstrates Doton;
You must be registered for see images

This is where kakuzu comes in. Kakuzu is very important in this topic due to his abilities. Firstly we all know that kakuzu has 5 hearts he transplanted from previous ninja's he fought and killed and each heart uses an element. From what we know kakuzu has already used a earth element, which he used to solidify. From what we can see the heart kakashi destroyed was the water heart because he had 4 hearts left and 3 hearts were on the outside using fire, wind and lightning, whilst the other heart (Earth) was in him. Therefore its a safe assumption to say kakuzu's real chakra elementary is earth. Anyway the other hearts using elementary attacks;
Wind heart;
You must be registered for see images


Lightning heart;
You must be registered for see images


Fire heart;
You must be registered for see images

What i can see, it seems like its the heart that decides your chakra affiliation. Meaning your heart is in direct relation to what dominant chakra affiliation you are. The reason kakuzu was able to use different high level elementary attacks due to the hearts he has transplanted says it all;
You must be registered for see images

So now from what we know each ninja has their dominant chakra element, which is in direct relation to your heart. Elite ninja's can use their dominant chakra element, but can also use their second dominant, saying that although elite ninja's can use their second dominant elementary chakra, they cannot produce s- rank techniques because that isnt their dominant chakra.

I'll use kakashi as an example. We all know that kakashi's dominant elementary chakra affiliation is lightning and can use raikiri which is an s-rank lightning technique. We also know that he has been able to use other chakra affiliation attacks and its strongly hinted that his second dominant chakra affiliation is suiton, but due to this element being his second dominant chakra affiliation he cannot use s-rank suiton jutsu's.

What im trying to say is that although a ninja might have a dominant chakra elementary, they can use their second dominant chakra affiliation and even their third, depending on how skilled they are, but apart from their main chakra affiliation they cannot use s-rank techniques from their second and even third chakra element.

Look at it this way, ill use kakashi as an example. We know that his chakra affiliation is lightning, but his chakra isnt 100% lightning he has other elementary chakra in him to use. So for example lets say his chakra is composed of 70% lightning, 20% water and 10% earth. He can use s-rank lightning techniques but not s-rank earth techniques.

Back to sarutobi, konoha is a fairly sized village. There are many different elementary ninjutsu's ranging from S-rank to D-rank. From what we know his dominant is fire and his second is earth. He can use s-rank fire techniques but he cannot use s-rank earth techniques, let alone water, wind and lightning. Meaning he cannot possible have mastered all the techniques in konoha because if he either doesnt have that element at all, or that element isnt his strongest chakra affiliation he cannot use it. For example he cannot use chidori or raikiri.

From my knowledge the only person truly mastered and can use all elementary affiliation techniques ranging from S-rank to D- rank is nagato due to the abilities the rennigan gives him;
You must be registered for see images

Damn, finding manga images is very annoying, please read it all and enjoy :)

I agree to some extent with both arguments. I think Orochimaru was referring to the Third Hokage's knowledge and skill of Konoha Techniques and not the Hidden and/or Kekkei Genkai Techniques of Clans.
 
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Itachi Namikaze

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The sharingan and byakugan are techniques since they provide advatages in combat when activated, they are called Dojutsu, Eye techniques.
Well technically if you wanted to prove him wrong you would have to use the sharingan, since there are no jutsus that come directly from the Byakugan.

The sharingan on the other hand can cast genjutsu, even a normal sharingan can do this. And by all accounts genjutsu is a type of jutsu, and it is a type of jutsu that Hiruzen couldn't do.

There is absolutely no way that Hiruzen could use every jutsu in Konoha at any point, since the Uchiha were always there, the Akimichi were there for as long as Hiruzen was, etc.

The only way anyone can argue this is if they think that all of this is true.
1)Sharingan genjutsu does not count as a jutsu
2)Hiruzen knew all of the Hidden clan's abilities (akimichi, Nara, Aburame, etc)
3)No one in Konoha had any other summons, as people are only allowed one type of summon.
4) No one had any elemental jutsus that Hiruzen hadn't learned.
5) No one had any KG
6) Hiruzen knew all of the forbidden jutsu (IWR, etc.)


And so much more. So it is 100% certain that Hiruzen at no point could use all the jutsu in Konoha.
 

Blaze Release

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Well I made a thread a while back that also proved Hiruzen could without a doubt not use every jutsu in Konoha.

And then afterwards I made a thread called Contradictions in the manga that proved that sometimes manga characters lie, they exaggerate, and sometimes they are outright wrong. Like when Hiruzen thought he stopped Orochimaru's summoning of Minato. That was all the information we had at that time so everyone assumed he was right, but right and wrong don't change with time. He was wrong then, it was just that no one knew any better.

Anyway yeah the point is Hiruzen does not have all the jutsu in Konoha.

And I dislike hype.
Same here, i thought it was obvious that he couldnt have mastered all the ninjutsu's in konoha because it doesnt make sense.
 
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