Ending the MYTH about Sarutobi Hiruzen's Ninjutsu pool

[Kirikoe]

i read through it all and gotta say it bored me a bit but i managed , but i dnt agree with everything u say, obvi i dnt think hiruzen can use every single leaf jutsu i think i was just exagerated to really put across just how good he was, i would just like to say even though it doesnt really have anything to do with hiruzen.

wat was said about chakra natures and about how ur second chakra nature cant use S ranked techniques i think it incorrect, through hard training and i mean very hard training they would eventually be able to use high level techniques but because it isnt there dominant chakra element they obvi find it harder to use it than there dominant , take sasuke as an example his dominant nature is fire, yet he is able to use chidori which is lightning, his second affiliated chakra nature which is also an S rank technique.

i know it didnt really have anything to do with hiruzen i just wanted to make it clearer

 

[BigTDogg220]

There are some people on here that would argue with you if you said Sasuke has the sharingan or Naruto uses shadow clones...when there are people like that you'll never be able to have everyone agree on anything.

 

[Ninpou]

i read through it all and gotta say it bored me a bit but i managed , but i dnt agree with everything u say, obvi i dnt think hiruzen can use every single leaf jutsu i think i was just exagerated to really put across just how good he was, i would just like to say even though it doesnt really have anything to do with hiruzen.

wat was said about chakra natures and about how ur second chakra nature cant use S ranked techniques i think it incorrect, through hard training and i mean very hard training they would eventually be able to use high level techniques but because it isnt there dominant chakra element they obvi find it harder to use it than there dominant , take sasuke as an example his dominant nature is fire, yet he is able to use chidori which is lightning, his second affiliated chakra nature which is also an S rank technique.

i know it didnt really have anything to do with hiruzen i just wanted to make it clearer

I agree with what he said about chakra natures becuase if you could use both elements u to S rank then you would easily be able to mix the 2 elements creating a 3rd element and that being possible would take away the advantage of having a kekkei genkai.

 

[Blaze Release]

i read through it all and gotta say it bored me a bit but i managed , but i dnt agree with everything u say, obvi i dnt think hiruzen can use every single leaf jutsu i think i was just exagerated to really put across just how good he was, i would just like to say even though it doesnt really have anything to do with hiruzen.

wat was said about chakra natures and about how ur second chakra nature cant use S ranked techniques i think it incorrect, through hard training and i mean very hard training they would eventually be able to use high level techniques but because it isnt there dominant chakra element they obvi find it harder to use it than there dominant , take sasuke as an example his dominant nature is fire, yet he is able to use chidori which is lightning, his second affiliated chakra nature which is also an S rank technique.

i know it didnt really have anything to do with hiruzen i just wanted to make it clearer

Sasuke or should i say the uchiha are different. Their fire elementary chakra is due to from their dna. It comes with their potent chakra. Every uchiha has their kekeganki chakra affiliation which is fire, but also have their own individual chakra affiliation. In sasuke's case its lightning, in itachi's case its water

 

[Kirikoe]

I agree with what he said about chakra natures becuase if you could use both elements u to S rank then you would easily be able to mix the 2 elements creating a 3rd element and that being possible would take away the advantage of having a kekkei genkai.

hmmm no just because u can use to natures to an S rank level doesnt meen u can mix them and the only reason others can mix them is because its there kekei genkai anyway

 

[Ninpou]

hmmm no just because u can use to natures to an S rank level doesnt meen u can mix them and the only reason others can mix them is because its there kekei genkai anyway

A kekkei genkai requires mastery of 2 chakra natures, if someone without a kekkei genkai was to master 2 elements whats to stop them from mixing them together with "hard training" as you said?

 

[lanakau888]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your argument is that a ninja only has up to 3 dominant chakra affiliations and therefore can only use S-rank techniques of these 3 types?

Sorry Blaze, I know you spent a lot of time on this, but I have to disagree. I don't think that element affiliation determines what rank of jutsu you can master, it just determines the strength of the elemental jutsus.

Take a great fire-ball user. Two guys use grand fireball. The one with the fire affiliation will have an easier time making a bigger fireball than the one without it. Affiliation just affects the strength of a jutsu and the time it takes to master it, it doesn't limit a person from mastering a certain rank of jutsu.

Now i do have to admit that sarutobi probably didn't know the kekke genkai-only jutsus, but as far as yin/yang release and elemental jutsus, he was hyped to have known them all there really isn't evidence to disprove it.

 

[Kirikoe]

A kekkei genkai requires mastery of 2 chakra natures, if someone without a kekkei genkai was to master 2 elements whats to stop them from mixing them together with "hard training" as you said?

hmmm i cant really argue with u here but from wat i have interpretted from reading and watching the anime and manga only people with kekei genkai can mix there elements and if it was true that u could without it being a kekei genkai then as someone else has said since the uchiha can use fire and another nature to high level wouldnt they mix it ?

i could be totally wrong but im just saying wat i have interpretted and IMO makes sence to me

 

[Blaze Release]

A kekkei genkai requires mastery of 2 chakra natures, if someone without a kekkei genkai was to master 2 elements whats to stop them from mixing them together with "hard training" as you said?

This is why;

Spoiler

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[Kirikoe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your argument is that a ninja only has up to 3 dominant chakra affiliations and therefore can only use S-rank techniques of these 3 types?

Sorry Blaze, I know you spent a lot of time on this, but I have to disagree. I don't think that element affiliation determines what rank of jutsu you can master, it just determines the strength of the elemental jutsus.

Take a great fire-ball user. Two guys use grand fireball. The one with the fire affiliation will have an easier time making a bigger fireball than the one without it. Affiliation just affects the strength of a jutsu and the time it takes to master it, it doesn't limit a person from mastering a certain rank of jutsu.

Now i do have to admit that sarutobi probably didn't know the kekke genkai-only jutsus, but as far as yin/yang release and elemental jutsus, he was hyped to have known them all there really isn't evidence to disprove it.

TY! this was also wat i was trying to say aswell

 

[Blaze Release]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your argument is that a ninja only has up to 3 dominant chakra affiliations and therefore can only use S-rank techniques of these 3 types?

Sorry Blaze, I know you spent a lot of time on this, but I have to disagree. I don't think that element affiliation determines what rank of jutsu you can master,it just determines the strength of the elemental jutsus.

Take a great fire-ball user. Two guys use grand fireball. The one with the fire affiliation will have an easier time making a bigger fireball than the one without it. Affiliation just affects the strength of a jutsu and the time it takes to master it, it doesn't limit a person from mastering a certain rank of jutsu.

Now i do have to admit that sarutobi probably didn't know the kekke genkai-only jutsus, but as far as yin/yang release and elemental jutsus, he was hyped to have known them all there really isn't evidence to disprove it.

At the lightened part i completely disagree. If anything youve proven my point. Ninja's who do not have the required dominant chakra affiliaiton cannot produce s-rank tehniques of that element

 

[Kirikoe]

This is why;

Spoiler

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ah right i did forget about this but i still think that even if u can use 2 nature elements to a high degree and then can combine them, as kakashi said in the link, controlling them simultaneously ( not sure if spelling is right ) is a very difficult thing to do which is why not many ninja can do it as most ninja can only use 1 nature element anyways

 

[Ninpou]

This is why;

Spoiler

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I know that, i was heping you prove your point...

 

[lanakau888]

At the lightened part i completely disagree. If anything youve proven my point. Ninja's who do not have the required dominant chakra affiliaiton cannot produce s-rank tehniques of that element

the strength at which a certain jutsu is performed at does not determine its rank.

A great fireball done by part 1 sasuke and a great fireball done by itachi against bee are both at the same rank, yet their strengths and sizes are completely different.

Hiruzen might not be able to do some jutsus at the same levels as nins who specialize in them, but he can still do them which would still mean he mastered every jutsu in the leaf.

 

[Kirikoe]

I know that, i was heping you prove your point...

ohh sorry that was completely aimed at the rong person, i was really concentrating there and was rushing cause i had to do something

we cool ? lol

 

[Draegod]

slight errors

orochimaru never said he knows all jutsu in the leaf , thats impossible, he doesnt know wood release, and edo tensei does her?

The correct translation was , you ONCE knew all existing konoha jutsu


You should know sharingan and byakugan aren't jutsu.. they are bloodline limits.. genetically passed down traits.... the thing they cast are jutsu- amaterasu, tsukyomi, kotoamatsuki....

Byakugan casts no jutsu... everyone can do gentle fist if trained.. you jsut release chakra in your palm... byakugan helps them see the chakra points, thus enabling them to close and open at their will..


Hiden techs can be learned by anyone... and you need to understand they weren't always hiden.... at 1 point in the history of konoha, the clans all came together and decided to stop teaching others the techs and keep them to their selves ,...

hiruzen was almost their at the beginning of konoha... shortly after it was created..... and in his time hiden techs were most like not hiden yet...

This!

But you also made some points, and if I can I got some research you can add.

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[Blaze Release]

I know that, i was heping you prove your point...

I mustve misread your post then xd

 

[Urda]

At the lightened part i completely disagree. If anything youve proven my point. Ninja's who do not have the required dominant chakra affiliaiton cannot produce s-rank tehniques of that element

False, Ninja's who have a dominant chakra affiliation can still produce S-Rank Techniques of their second dominant chakra affiliation. Example: Sasuke using Raiton, S-Rank Technique, Kirin, when his dominant element nature is Fire. Jutsu Rank determines difficulty or skill necessary to perform a technique.

A kekkei genkai requires mastery of 2 chakra natures, if someone without a kekkei genkai was to master 2 elements whats to stop them from mixing them together with "hard training" as you said?

Kekkei Genkai is neccesary for the mixture of elemental chakra becuase the genetics the ninja carrys. Without the genetics, it is impossible for normal ninja.

Source: ~Wikia~

Kekkei genkai and their related techniques cannot be taught to or copied by others. However, kekkei genkai can be given to others. Dōjutsu, or other kekkei genkai isolated to a single organ, can be transplanted into the body of another, as was done with transferring Obito's Sharingan to Kakashi. Use of these organs requires much more chakra than someone born with the kekkei genkai. Chakra elements can also be passed down to people outside of the clan, such as Yamato going through Orochimaru's DNA re-modification to acquire the Wood Release technique. However, Yamato's skill in using it is not nearly as powerful as the original practitioner, Hashirama Senju.

Although kekkei genkai are usually genetically shared within a specific clan, sometimes it is unique to one person alone, and that even family relatives do not share it, such as the Wood Release and Shikotsumyaku. Yet other kekkei genkai seem to appear in individuals with no known relation, such as the Lava Release, which has appeared in ninja from Kirigakure, Iwagakure, and Kumogakure, while Magnet Release, which has appeared in ninja from both Kumogakure and Sunagakure.

 

[Blaze Release]

False, Ninja's who have a dominant chakra affiliation can still produce S-Rank Techniques of their second dominant chakra affiliation. Example: Sasuke using Kirin when his dominant element nature is Fire. Jutsu Rank determines difficulty or skill necessary to perform a technique. Kekkei Genkai is neccesary for the mixture of elemental chakra becuase the genetics the ninja carrys. Without the genetics, it is immpossible for normal ninja.

Source: ~Wikia~

Kekkei genkai and their related techniques cannot be taught to or copied by others. However, kekkei genkai can be given to others. Dōjutsu, or other kekkei genkai isolated to a single organ, can be transplanted into the body of another, as was done with transferring Obito's Sharingan to Kakashi. Use of these organs requires much more chakra than someone born with the kekkei genkai. Chakra elements can also be passed down to people outside of the clan, such as Yamato going through Orochimaru's DNA re-modification to acquire the Wood Release technique. However, Yamato's skill in using it is not nearly as powerful as the original practitioner, Hashirama Senju.

Although kekkei genkai are usually genetically shared within a specific clan, sometimes it is unique to one person alone, and that even family relatives do not share it, such as the Wood Release and Shikotsumyaku. Yet other kekkei genkai seem to appear in individuals with no known relation, such as the Lava Release, which has appeared in ninja from Kirigakure, Iwagakure, and Kumogakure, while Magnet Release, which has appeared in ninja from both Kumogakure and Sunagakure.

Disagree. Its already been established that uchiha's have their 'dna' chakra affilation which is fire. Each individual has their own chakra affiliaiton along with their fire. In sasuke's case, its lightning and itachi' case water.

At the highlighted part, again you are wrong. I suppose you are talking about the combination of chakra element affiliation and not bloodline limits. When it comes to kekeganki in the sense of combining of two elements it has nothing to do with dna/genetics. If it does hashirama's descendants would have mokouton or should i say earth/water element (tsunade). Similar onoki was trained by muu to learn dust release which is an advanced form of kekeganki called kekkei tota. This is more to do with hard work rather than dna.

We are getting off topic though xd

 

[HeyApple]

WOW crazy post mate! Even though, an amazing one. All you say makes sense, but i do not agree on the part when u say that "you CAN'T learn S-Ranked Jutsus from your second, third etc chakra affiliation". It may be POSSIBLE but truly hard to achieve so. I'd say its like being a proffesional player in both football and basketball (right? xd) and that is possible but ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE lol

nice post