Anime Forum

EMS Sasuke vs. Neji w/ Kyuubi cloak

NarutoX28

NarutoX28

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
6,624
Kin
8💸
Kumi
6💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
KidGamer65 said:
Not sure how many times I'm going to have to state this.
Click to expand...
Well, I have plenty of derp moments ...

That is what happened. Sasuke didn't react faster than Minato could react as Minato is blatantly shown reacting. Sasuke put up Susanoo faster than Hiraishin could activate but as for reaction speed Minato is shown reacting with a hand sign before Susanoo was put up.

Who said Sasuke has inferior reaction speed to KCM Minato based on anything said in this discussion in the first place? Even if I did, how does Sasuke noticing Obito change anything that I've said here?

Evasive speed is reaction speed and regular movement speed, and you can get an idea of their striking speed in relation to each other by seeing them match each other when they saved Sakura, but again, there isn't going to be any real difference. Sasuke would strike faster if he has a sword though.
Click to expand...
The issue is that they're two separate reactions that accomplishes two different things. The hand seal is specifically used for kneading chakra while the outflow of chakra in order to even use Hiraishin is a separate reaction. Regardless of whether or not the hand seal was formed, Sasuke still kneaded chakra and released it for Susano'o while Minato failed to even release chakra for Hiraishin.

Well, Naruto and Sasuke didn't attack simultaneously because of having equivalent speed, they attacked simultaneously because they were utilizing a combination through Enton + FRS. I think this is a tricky subject because I believe SM Naruto is more reflexive than KCM Naruto, so referring to how EMS Sasuke battled SM Madara is the simplest route to argue Sasuke's superior speed, but you don't believe that, so there's not much I can say.
 
KidGamer65

KidGamer65

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Kin
8💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
NarutoX28 said:
Well, I have plenty of derp moments ...



The issue is that they're two separate reactions that accomplishes two different things. The hand seal is specifically used for kneading chakra while the outflow of chakra in order to even use Hiraishin is a separate reaction. Regardless of whether or not the hand seal was formed, Sasuke still kneaded chakra and released it for Susano'o while Minato failed to even release chakra for Hiraishin.

Well, Naruto and Sasuke didn't attack simultaneously because of having equivalent speed, they attacked simultaneously because they were utilizing a combination through Enton + FRS. I think this is a tricky subject because I believe SM Naruto is more reflexive than KCM Naruto, so referring to how EMS Sasuke battled SM Madara is the simplest route to argue Sasuke's superior speed, but you don't believe that, so there's not much I can say.
Click to expand...
True, but that doesn't mean he outsped Minato himself as Minato reacted before he did. Comparing the knead and release processes for Hiraishin w/ hand signs and Susanoo is pointless as they are two completely different jutsu.


Naruto and Sasuke didn't attack together, they attacked the same target separately when they saved Sakura. Their only combo attack was when they fought the Juubi and when they fought against Juubito.


And of course I don't believe that SM Naruto is more reflexive than KCM Naruto because there is literally nothing in the Manga supporting that. That's why there is no reason you should even believe that anyway. It's a unsubstantiated opinion. Being able to sense faster than someone else doesn't mean you have superior reflexes, otherwise all sensors, sage sensors and Sharingan users would be superior to everyone else in reaction speed. KCM Naruto's feats are factually superior. Sasuke isn't superior to KCM Naruto in any aspect of speed except reaction speed.
 
Haizaki

Haizaki

Active member
Elite
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
6,233
Kin
0💸
Kumi
2,500💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Genjutsu? Nah.

Especially considering the intel being full and the fact that Itachi would have to build up chakra to do so...Meanwhile all Neji needs to do is prevent eye contact which is not a problem.

- The Byakugan is capable of seeing Chakra build up as we both know. Sasuke needs Chakra build up to cast his Genjutsu.
- All Neji needs to to do is fight with his eye lid closed which is pretty easy. That blocks eye contact
- Another solution is to pull his headband to his eye level like Kakashi does...Not up to a second. That would prevent eye contact but won't stop the Byakugan from seeing through (Bottom panel)
You must be registered for see links


I've debated this Genjutsu point far too many times and proved my point. No need to elaborate further but yes, Neji closing his eye lids would enable him counter Genjutsu. Easily.

Amaterasu? Lol Neji doesn't even need the cloak to counter this. Cloak just makes it easier. Chidori? No. We saw how powerful Hinata's Air palm( Middle:
You must be registered for see links
) got after they Kyuubi's cloak when faced against the Juubi hand
You must be registered for see links
. Let's not discuss a Rotation that was nearly Hiashi's size. That's crazy boost as it's overall power would be insane. You must also remember than Neji's Kaiten also does considerable damage if you charge right at him with such attack
You must be registered for see links


Btw, is Lee matching Sasuke's speed in Base here?
You must be registered for see links
 
KidGamer65

KidGamer65

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Kin
8💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Haizaki said:
Btw, is Lee matching Sasuke's speed in Base here?
You must be registered for see links
Click to expand...
No, unless you want to argue that the other fodders are on par in speed with them and that Naruto>Sasuke in speed even though it's been shown otherwise. That's just them running anyway.
 
Haizaki

Haizaki

Active member
Elite
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
6,233
Kin
0💸
Kumi
2,500💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
KidGamer65 said:
No, unless you want to argue that the other fodders are on par in speed with them and that Naruto>Sasuke in speed even though it's been shown otherwise. That's just them running anyway.
Click to expand...
Yeah, lol. Just thought it was mad funny. That was SM Naruto so it made me really think that ish twice :lol
 
NarutoX28

NarutoX28

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
6,624
Kin
8💸
Kumi
6💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
KidGamer65 said:
True, but that doesn't mean he outsped Minato himself as Minato reacted before he did. Comparing the knead and release processes for Hiraishin w/ hand signs and Susanoo is pointless as they are two completely different jutsu.


Naruto and Sasuke didn't attack together, they attacked the same target separately when they saved Sakura. Their only combo attack was when they fought the Juubi and when they fought against Juubito.
Click to expand...
Well, that's the thing. Even if Minato performed an earlier reaction, Minato still attempted to use Hiraishin (another reaction) and still failed even when Sasuke not only had to release chakra, but also convert his Stamina ---> Chakra in order to use his jutsu. If we were referring to both individuals kneading chakra, I'd be in agreement that this isn't a fair comparison, but I highly doubt the outflow of chakra would differ at all given how guys such as Kitsuchi can release chakra and construct his Doton Mountain instantaneously.

And of course I don't believe that SM Naruto is more reflexive than KCM Naruto because there is literally nothing in the Manga supporting that. That's why there is no reason you should even believe that anyway. It's a unsubstantiated opinion. Being able to sense faster than someone else doesn't mean you have superior reflexes, otherwise all sensors, sage sensors and Sharingan users would be superior to everyone else in reaction speed. KCM Naruto's feats are factually superior. Sasuke isn't superior to KCM Naruto in any aspect of speed except reaction speed.
Click to expand...
The author's explicitly compared SM Naruto to KCM Naruto to explain why Naruto was capable of humiliating Raikage. The only substantial evidence that can be used is Naruto's ability to react to Raikage, but that was accomplished under numerous circumstances and KCM Naruto accomplished that with Shunshin which doesn't properly illustrate KCM Naruto's reactions in different facets of speed (strike speed, evasive speed, etc).

Honestly, I don't see the problem with Elite Sensors and Sharingan Users having the highest level of reactions within the manga because that's what literally happened towards the end of the manga.
 
KidGamer65

KidGamer65

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Kin
8💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
NarutoX28 said:
Well, that's the thing. Even if Minato performed an earlier reaction, Minato still attempted to use Hiraishin (another reaction) and still failed even when Sasuke not only had to release chakra, but also convert his Stamina ---> Chakra in order to use his jutsu. If we were referring to both individuals kneading chakra, I'd be in agreement that this isn't a fair comparison, but I highly doubt the outflow of chakra would differ at all given how guys such as Kitsuchi can release chakra and construct his Doton Mountain instantaneously.
Click to expand...
But that's irrelevant to the point. The fact he reacted first means that Sasuke's reaction speed is not superior to his. Meaning it's not a feat worth mentioning when talking about Sasuke's superiority to Naruto in any speed related department.

And no. Kitsuchi needs time to build up the chakra necessary to use that jutsu. So there's no way for you to compare the build ups for Susanoo and Hiraishin w/ hand signs.

The author's explicitly compared SM Naruto to KCM Naruto to explain why Naruto was capable of humiliating Raikage. The only substantial evidence that can be used is Naruto's ability to react to Raikage, but that was accomplished under numerous circumstances and KCM Naruto accomplished that with Shunshin which doesn't properly illustrate KCM Naruto's reactions in different facets of speed (strike speed, evasive speed, etc).
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? It was stated that SM Naruto's sensing range is wider and faster than it is in KCM. Does that mean SM Naruto's reflexes are superior to KCM Naruto's? No. SM's advantage is that it gives Sharingan like precognition, but in the form of sensing. KCM doesn't grant that, which is why it would be harder for him to time his attacks in KCM than in Sage Mode.

-KCM reacted to Ay.
-SM has no feat on that level. Bold are excuses.

There are no special circumstances that allowed Naruto to react to Ay. Ay charged at top speed, Naruto saw him, and Naruto dodged. That's it. Whether or not it tests his striking speed is irrelevant, and "evasive speed" isn't even a thing. There is reaction speed, striking speed, Shunshin speed and general movement speed. "evasive speed" would be reaction speed and general movement speed together.

-KCM's reactions>>SM's reactions.
-KCM's general movement speed>SM's general movement speed. They are equal at the very worst. There is no facet of speed SM Naruto surpasses KCM Naruto in. Not even close.



Honestly, I don't see the problem with Elite Sensors and Sharingan Users having the highest level of reactions within the manga because that's what literally happened towards the end of the manga.
Click to expand...
I'm just going to pretend this is a very bad joke. Are you going to argue that MS Sasuke or SM Naruto or 3-Tomoe Sasuke as a kid>V2 Ay in reflexes because he has Sharingan? No, you obviously won't meaning this line of thinking is ridiculous. Obviously that's what happened at the end of the Manga because all the people you are referring to are god tiers. :lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top