Umm.. 50% Kyuubi=100% Kyuubi as I have established with pure, sweet manga scans. Anything you post regarding a massive Kurama will be regarded as an anomaly; since it is. So yes, everything is showing Sasuke's PS=Madara's PS in size.
EMS Sasuke vs BM Naruto
- Thread starter KidGamer65
- Start date
Kurama merely noted the feel of his chakra reminded him of Madara and I'm certain he was able to make this distinction not because their powers were close, but because both were reincarnations of Indra.
Its not that I think Madaras chakra should be stronger and more potent, the manga portrays it to be that way. The manga portrays everything about Madara to be > Sasuke. Orochimaru mentions Sasuke could surpass Madara. Tobirama mentions Sasuke has the potential to be even greater than Madara. Obito said it too (Not sure if he said Nagato or Madara I don't remember). With these statements the manga is portraying Sasuke has not surpassed Madara yet but when he reaches his prime he most certainly would. Since we discussing their chakra in this case, all of Madaras Susanoo versions were bigger, stronger, more durable, etc than Sasukes. Madaras chakra was large enough to duel Hashirama (even SM Hashirama) and both ended in the same exhausted state. EMS Sasuke can never achieve something even close to that level and he certainly can't last with Hashirama for 24 hours.
Sasuke attacked and Naruto defended. That does not mean if Naruto attacked with his tails that Sasuke would be able to defend against his attacks, especially since one tail was all that was needed to stop PS slash.
I made a long post of making comparison in lower versions of Susanoo between Madara's and Sasuke's, which Madara showed better defensive and offensive feats.
Also, is there any specific names for Susanoo? In the databook, it calls it ''Iso'' Susanoo when fused with Kurama, while when established is called ''Perfect''.
This was the entire gist of my earlier post (not sure if you read or not). I'm not saying EMS Sasuke can't use PS anymore, I agree that he can, but he would need immense chakra to reach the large form Madara used, chakra levels he does not have so his PS would naturally be inferior to Madaras and its most likely the reason the difference in their V4 are so damn drastic:
You must be registered for see links
then
You must be registered for see links
Madaras tanked a Bijuu Dama and the one Sasuke used certainly isn't replicating that feat so its clear Madaras is much stronger, not to mention it looks about half the size of Kurama so its way larger than Sasukes. To give an idea of the size difference between them, that Kyuubi BD is bigger than Sasukes v4, then the same BD is much smaller than Madaras v4.
Sennin of Logic
Active member
You've established jack. "Anomaly" is a nice way of saying "I'll take only the info I want, and ignore everything else."
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Very clear size difference.
Even pretending Sasuke's PS is as powerful as Madara's, he'd only win scenario 1 in that case.
KidGamer65
Active member
Awards
Lol what? DB goes up to 691, yet Kakashi nor Sasuke (rinnegan) are listed as users. Db obviously isn't evidence that ems Sasuke lacks ps.
What are you talking about? I said Edo Madara and EMS Madara have the same ps. That's a fact. What's fanfic is Edo Madaras Susanoo being stronger.
From what is posted after that.
What the hell? Chapter 695 and the beginning of 696. On my phone so don't expect any scans from me.
PS and the Avatar were shown to be physical equals. Thats a fact. Don't know where this Avatar>>>>>>>>>PS stuff came from considering they ended up with a draw.
KidGamer65
Active member
Awards
Ken Masters
Active member
if we are discussing susanoo here then i'll say this
madara susanoo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sasuke susanoo
i found this thread on this site proving madara susanoo is bigger and stronger than sasky susanoo
also the db4 seems to be in madara's favor.
dat madara tho
madara susanoo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sasuke susanoo
i found this thread on this site proving madara susanoo is bigger and stronger than sasky susanoo
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see images
also the db4 seems to be in madara's favor.
dat madara tho
Once again, that was the anomaly I spoke of. It is completely obvious too, as you can
You must be registered for see links
So that point doesn't stand, and simply reinforces my previous claims.
KidGamer65
Active member
Awards
Uh? "Eyes with such power and chakra even more sinister than my own" He's definitely referring to power, partially.
The manga portrays that Madara is all around stronger than Sasuke, it doesn't imply that Madara is better than Sasuke in everything, nor does the manga imply that Madara's chakra>>>Sasuke's chakra.
That was all before EMS Sasuke showed us his PS. Naturally Oro would say that he could surpass Madara, but hasn't yet, because his best was a Senjutsu Susanoo.
Bigger? Sure. Even with Rinnegan they still are. Not really relevant.
Stronger and more durable? What suggests that EMS Sasuke's Susanoo at their best aren't as durable as Madara's at their best? Or at least near it?
Hashirama used way more chakra than Madara did. Hashirama had to consistently create Bijuu Sized+Mokuton constructs, and control them to fight against Madara, who only had to use PS briefly since Kyuubi has his own chakra reserves, and added much more firepower to his arsenal w/o Madara having to use excess chakra.
As for the 24 hours bit, you don't know how what Madara did during that fight to say that Sasuke can't last that long as well, but I doubt he could as well. Not really relevant though.
Nor is chakra amount=/=chakra strength.
Sasuke attacked, and Naruto counter attacked. He wasn't guarding, he was parrying, which makes the whole comparison valid.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
Was Naruto holding back? Yes. Was he the one engaging Sasuke? No. Does that change the fact that he did attack? No. Does that change the fact that their avatars are shown to be physical equals? No. Subtract Rikudo Power and you have Sage Kurama Avatar=Perfect Susanoo in speed, strength, and durability.
Not really a fair comparison, to take Sasuke's V4 Susanoo at it's smallest and then compare to Madara's. V4 Susanoo at it's peak is a full bodied Susanoo, which then becomes PS. As Madara has shown us, it's around the size of the Perfect Susanoo, just not stablilized, thus Sasuke can clearly make a much much larger V4 than what he showed us after he had just gotten EMS.
RustledJimmies
Banned
Majestic Garb Susano'o/Iso Susano'o is the ability of armoring Kyuubi with Susano'o, it isn't a stage of Susano'o, it's re-shaping it to fit as an armor for Kyuubi.
PS is the stabilized version of a V4 Susano'o, that's an unstabilized V4, by your logic, even Itachi has PS. That Susano'o you linked to is Sasuke's equivalent to this :
Everything else in your post doesn't mean jack to me as I never claimed that Sasuke's PS is as strong, stronger or weaker than Madara's.
TRE MERCER
Active member
Awards
Kamui Sama
Active member
yea Madara's ribcage >> Sasuke's in durability looking at the kage fight. If we use that as a reference point then EMS Sasuke's PS should be a good bit weaker in terms of durability. As I said before I don't believe Rinnegan Sasuke's PS should be used to gauge his EMS. Rikudou/senjutsu chakra should definitely have provided a boost to the durability of his susano'o
also full kyuubi is bigger than 50% kyuubi and avatar in size :|
not saying dat size matters though... XD
Last edited:
The feel of their chakra is similar because they are both Indra but it does not means Sasukes chakra level is close to Madaras. The level of chakra and the way it feels are different. Just for example, Karin noted Narutos chakra to feel really warm and light:
You must be registered for see links
. Hashiramas chakra would also feel that way, but that does not mean Narutos chakra level is even close to his, and we know its not, at least not in base.Except he is better than Sasuke at everything. The manga portrays it and the feats prove it. Take something from each of them we both know they can do and Madara can do it better or the his version of the feat would be more impressive. This isn't because Sasuke is shit, Madara is just an older man whose more experienced and reached his peak where as Sasuke is still a teenager and hasn't reached his full potential. We can compare them this way because their abilities are almost identical.
I'm cutting out everything thats not relevant to our specific discussion. I'm tired.
Feats. This is how these things work. Madaras PS has feats and Sasukes doesn't (without in the influence of other powers) and thats that. With no feats on Sasukes side, all we have is portrayal and implications for him and Madara wins in both of those categories too.
I remembered you saying this:
You must be registered for see links
. It is though slightly relevant to this specific issue because we're talking about their chakras.Never said it was.
Madaras v4 in that panel has no legs either and its still bigger than Sasukes when his has no legs so if we give them both legs, Madaras will still be bigger.
pateuvasiliu
Active member
Naruto wins them all by outlasting him. It's been shown Sasuke has nothing to kill him with.
This is before haxxed Sage Powerup so Sasuke doesn't have the ridiculous chakra that somehow equals Naruto's.
KidGamer65
Active member
Awards
I guess you have a point, never really found merit in that point anyway.
Nope. Manga has portrayed one thing and one thing only. Madara>Sasuke. Saying that manga portrays him to be far better than Sasuke in everything is nothing but an assumption.
Age isn't even relevant. Madara unlocked his Perfect Susanoo when he was younger, yet it's no different from back then even as an Edo Tensei. EMS user's full potential is Perfect Susanoo. All before PS everyone was stating how Sasuke has the potential to surpass Madara. Am I saying that he surpassed Madara? Nope. Am I saying that he's relatively just as strong as Madara is? Yes, no reason to believe otherwise.
Uh huh.
Feats. This is how these things work. Madaras PS has feats and Sasukes doesn't (without in the influence of other powers) and thats that. With no feats on Sasukes side, all we have is portrayal and implications for him and Madara wins in both of those categories too.
I was only stating that Madara had a lot of chakra, which is something we both know. I also agree that he has more chakra. I also agree that his chakra is above Sasuke's, but what is false is his chakra and his Susanoo being so far above Sasuke's that it'd make a difference.
Because that Madara's using his at it's max size, without a lower body, while Sasuke's is nowhere near it's max size without a lower body. Adding legs isn't what makes Sasuke's V4 the size of his PS, unless you think that his Armored Susanoo is bigger than his Perfect Susanoo.