EMS Sasuke vs BM Naruto

Ken Masters

Active member
Regular
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
754
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
bm nardo solo's all scenarios

scenario 1-med diff
scenario 2-low diff
scenario 3-neg diff

wanna see proof??

bm nardo solo'd madara's legged and armored susanoo NEG diff (susanoo before ps)

You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images


madara susanoo >>>> sasky susanoo

bm nardo is too strong for sasky without bijjus or rinnegan...
 

Apêx1

Active member
Elite
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
6,929
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Sasuke high diffs scenario 1.
Sasuke high diffs scenario 1 as that Bijuu Dama will not be prepped in time.
Once again, the same.

-Sasuke's PS and Naruto's PS where portrayed as equals. When Sasuke got a weak version of senjutsu; CM, he matched Naruto's stronger version of Senjutsu; SM. Yet he still matched BM Naruto's speed. When Naruto got his Yang (bodily) Rikudo Chakra AND Rikudo Senjutsu chakra, Sasuke and his Susano were still as fast as him and his avatar with merely the Yin Rikudo chakra which isn't focused on bodily power. So saying he is slower than BM in EMS without any boosts is rather untrue. Even v2 Susano has shown a rather good speed feat [ ], not that it mans anything to PS.

-Sasuke's PS is still massive, and it's were shown to be the size of the the entire PS Kyuubi's body, hence his size potential is not limited to purely the Kyuubi.

-Sasuke's PS can use Enton variants as his unstabilised version already has [ ].

-Don't know if people have realised by now, but 100% Kyuubi is no larger than 50% Kyuubi. Madara covered 100% Kyuubi and Sasuke covered 50% Kyuubi, both of which are the same size. Bijuu's have always been the same size, and portrayed in that way too, can't see how people think Kyuubi was the large anomaly of the bunch. Kyuubi @ same size [ ]. Other Bijuu's being relatively the same [ ]. Naruto recreates his image of Kurama as the same size as another Bijuu [ ]. Kyuubi looking like he's average sized [ ]. Bijuu's being shown to be relatively the same size [ ]. Hachibi and Kyuubi at the same size, who are relatively as large as the Juubi's upper body, yet Madara and Obito look smaller than the tomoe on the Juubi's eye [ ]. Jin's looking the same size as Madara did on his Bijuu [ ]. 50% Kyuubi looking as big as 100% Kyuubi [ ]. Inb4 100% Kyuubi is 5 times bigger as shown by footstep, when it's clear that Kyuubi shrinks massively when he loses his chakra [ ]. I know there are anomalies' that people like to regard as true, but if you do that you'd have to regard other anomalies' from Bijuu's, such as [ ] and [ ]. Hachibi is making trees look smaller than humans in this, and those are 10 meter+ trees. Gobi is also looking twice the size of anomaly 100% Kurama. Same with Hachibi, Obito looks like a smaller piece of rubble on his hand, so I'm guessing Hachibi and Gobi>100% Kurama on size? Nope, just means all Bijuu are the same size when you look at the portrayal of Bijuu and the implications of these scans. Sasuke covered it, so his PS is as big as Madara's.

-People fail to understand the implications of Enton. Say if Sasuke's PS swing is on par with Naruto's BM durability. Adding Enton will make him cut right through it per how Shape Manipulation works. A sharp weapon becomes even sharper as Asuma said, and then demonstrated that the better the Shape Manipulation, the sharper the attack [ ]. Sasuke's Enton has pierced through large rock fast enough that the Zetsu didn't even light on fire prior to the Enton sword having crossed the whole rock [ ]. You can also noticed it did not achieve this with pure force, as the area of impact had no large impact effect, but it rather smoothed in. Same with the Juubi enforced shield, which was cut right through and was fast enough to create a mini shockwave around the sword's initial thrust, which proceeded to not only cut through the entire shield, but also the Juubi clone; effortlessly [ ]. Now this penetrative capability is purely Enton's, we are not even talking about a PS sword's penetrative capability coupled with Enton's amplification effect. BM Naruto gets cut through and there's nothing he'll be doing about the Enton on him while in the middle of the fight, which will be burning him slowly but surely.

Can't really see how Sasuke will be losing when his PS is the same size as Madara's, he can use Enton which Madara could not, he can move at relatively the same speed as BM Naruto does, and he has the capability of perceiving even Juubito's speed. Nothing suggests TBB will be bypassing a v4 Susano shield, as TBB's energy per area is massively lacking. It has failed to genuinely damage Deva when it was over a 20 times times times the size of Gamabunta's height; only barely ripping Deva's clothes. It has failed to ever legitimately kill anyone, similarly to Amateratsu. It's energy per area is only highly regarded due to vaporising Mountains. Good thing NV has its own physics, and in NV you need more energy to vaporise skin then you do to vaporise massive rocks (in the Deva fight). So either way, I don't see what's so special about TBB, sure it will end up killing someone who is standing without any good defence, but otherwise it should be easily stopped given it's non-Rikudo enhanced.
Fuuarrrkkk this wallie, didn't even notice, my bad.
 

Haizaki

Active member
Elite
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
6,233
Kin
0💸
Kumi
2,500💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
This is the most powerful version of Susanoo Sasuke used without the influence of Juugo or Kurama power. This is EMS Sasukes peak Susanoo. This is PS. Sasukes version is just not as strong as Madaras because like I said, Madara was more seasoned with his EMS powers. I'll try to break this down simple.

This is Madaras legless v4 Susanoo: .
I'm sure you can already tell its larger than Sasukes in the earlier link I posted. Way, way larger actually. Why is this? I believe it is because as I mentioned in a previous post, Susanoos power is based on the users chakra. EMS Madara chakra is way larger and more potent than EMS Sasukes for starters. EMS Madara has more experience in using Susanoo. These factors are why I believe the size difference between them is so drastic.

Sasuke would have to exert a large amount of chakra to grow legs on his v4, possibly an amount he didn't have, or couldn't afford to spare until he got Juugo and Kurama chakra. This wasn't a problem for EMS Madara though, he was in his prime and his chakra was immense. Learning to stabilize a construct that large would be hard for Sasuke. He had just awoken his EMS powers and was still testing them on fodders like Zetsu and the Jubi minions so this was new to him and he would need some practice (Jubito Fight) before hand. This was not the case for Madara as he had EMS for years then.

The manga has showed that the only times legs were formed on Sasuke Susanoo or complete PS was when he was empowered by an outside power (Kurama, Juugo, Hagoromo). The only logical answer we can come to is that chakra was the problem for him and the reason why he's so featless with PS in EMS form. I use to think he never had PS but after doing a lot of research myself, I'm convinced he does have it, but he can't use it to its full power because of his little experience and little chakra and even if he did, it still would be a far cry from Madaras for those same reasons.
First Sasuke's is not far off from Madara when it comes to chakra like you're making it seem...It's not a huge gap at all

Pretty sure all Sasuke did was cover Naruto's Avatar with his PS so yes he can use it without assistance.
 

Bronze

Banned
Legendary
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
15,769
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I'm now convinced EMS Sasuke couldn't achieve Legged Susanoo and PS without Naruto's/Kurama's and Juugo's Chakra helping him to do so. Considering the biological application that the Chakra of the reincarnations of Indra and Ashura, devolve each reincarnation in quality and quantity. Madara being somewhat +80 years older than Sasuke made him possess a lot more of it compared to Sasuke. Hashirama stated the Chakra given to all Shinobi Alliance were comparable to his Chakra, and Madara matched Hashirama's Chakra throughout their battles, and Sasuke never had comparable Chakra to Kurama as to why would he need the cloak then? Not only I have no reason to be convinced that he couldn't achieved it without Naruto's/Kurama's and Juugo's Chakra, but I'm also not convinced it's anywhere close to Madara's, since it lacks strong feats and lacks the Chakra to develop so.

That being said, Naruto demolishes him low difficulty.
 

KidGamer65

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Kin
8💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Susanoo grows more powerful by the users chakra. Sasuke Susanoo grew with more hate and anger he acquired and his chakra became colder and darker. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say EMS Madara chakra is much stronger than EMS Sasukes. He had more hate, anger, and was at the peak of his life. Sasuke was still a kid and had awoken his EMS powers just hours earlier.


Which is based on? When it comes to Madara, people always claim X, but never back it up. They just think that it "should" be like this, which isn't good enough.


More Hate? More Anger? No, he didn't. Not at the time he left the village. He didn't leave because he hated anyone or anything, he left because of the Eye of the Moon Plan. That's not hate or anger. Sasuke's hate and anger comes from the truth of his whole family being slaughtered. Sasuke's anger and hate>Madara's no contest.

Though I don't see hate and anger as a determinant of chakra strength. EMS Sasuke unlocked Perfect Susanoo, yet he didn't need hate or anger to do it.

I disagree on the their avatars are equal in ridoku form. How can you come to the conclusion that they are equal in speed, power, and durability
-They combated in CQC, and were shown to be dead equals. That is equal speed and strength.

-They both took the explosion of BD and Chidori, and they came out in the same exact shape.


Naruto parrying Susanoo Chidori with BD does not make their powers equal because for one Naruto was not attempting to kill Sasuke and two, we all know thats one of the smallest BD he ever made in BM mode and can make ones way way larger, or shoot continuous ones, which he didn't do.
I know. I never said they are equal in DC.

Kinda biased restricting Naruto so much.

Sasuke wins first scenario
Stalemates second
Naruto wins third

Unrestricted BM Naruto > EMS Sasuke doe.
It's called making a balanced match up.
 
Last edited:

KidGamer65

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Kin
8💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards


Nothing changes the fact that Perfect Susano'O is Sasuke's only way of competing with Naruto, In all scenario's. Which is featless on his own. As the only time he ever used it, Naruto's Kurama avatar was fused with it.

Logically, it should be a good deal weaker than Madara's. The reason is Madara's far superior Knead/Release and Doujutsu mastery.

Naruto wins Moderately High diff in scenario 1, and gets a margin easier wit each scenario after.




Give him the KCC cloak and Juugo, and he's practically equal with BM Naruto. With the exceptions of Flash Bijuudama and Naruto's vastly superior stamina​
@bold: Since when did Dojutsu mastery or knead/release have anything to do with Susanoo's strength?
 
Last edited:

Apêx1

Active member
Elite
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
6,929
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Kyuubi compared Sasuke's chakra to Madara's [ ] pre-MS. Now we take into account that the Sasuke the Kyuubi was talking about was non CM or CM2, which would also incorporate Orochimaru's chakra/Senjutsu. Sasuke's darkness was implied to be off limits [ ], and would later be reinforced by Karin. We look at what Karin said here, where Sasuke's chakra at the Kage Summit was above that of his CM2 [ ]. It's seemingly a large gap as she is literally orgasming [ ] over it. Not to mention that was at the very beginning of his MS attainment. Against Danzo even Obito praises his chakra power and its progression in power [ ]. Later on his chakra gets even colder against Kakashi [ ]. However, that was only at MS. At EMS, his chakra skyrocketed once again, per his own words (potentially meaning an even bigger gap between Hebi>MS and MS>EMS as he never commented on his MS chakra potency). He suggested his chakra no incorporated Itachi's potency as well, and his power was boosting continuously inside of him [ ]. We can also note that when his v4 was formed against Kakashi, it held no effects on the environment. Yet when it was formed against Zetsu after obtaining his EMS power, the entire location was shaking and even cracking [ ].

At this point, one can safely conclude that if he was around Madara's chakra potency at Hebi as the Kyuubi stated, he had reached his level by the time he obtained EMS.
 

Draegod

Active member
Elite
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
7,432
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
@bold: Since when did Dojutsu mastery or knead/release have anything to do with Susanoo's strength?
Sasukes is smaller, has less chakra and thus should be obv has less striking power in the same form.

OT: What the fuq is PS suppose to do to Naruto? Seriously! What? Naruto wins even with the restrictions.
 

KidGamer65

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Kin
8💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Sasukes is smaller, has less chakra and thus should be obv has less striking power in the same form.

OT: What the fuq is PS suppose to do to Naruto? Seriously! What? Naruto wins even with the restrictions.
Size doesnt equate strength, nor is it a way to determine strength. Rinnegan Sasuke's Susanoo is smalee than Madaras, but far stronger.
 

KidGamer65

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Kin
8💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Sasukes is smaller, has less chakra and thus should be obv has less striking power in the same form.

OT: What the fuq is PS suppose to do to Naruto? Seriously! What? Naruto wins even with the restrictions.
Size doesnt equate strength, nor is it a way to determine strength. Rinnegan Sasuke's Susanoo is smalee than Madaras, but far stronger.
 

Draegod

Active member
Elite
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
7,432
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Size doesnt equate strength, nor is it a way to determine strength. Rinnegan Sasuke's Susanoo is smalee than Madaras, but far stronger.
Size PLUS CHAKRA does! Bigger sword with more power (chakra) behind it equals more power correct? Rinnegan Sasuke has God Chakra to back his Susanoo up, Alive sasuke not only had KC chakra but Curse mark sage chakra as well to aid him. All of that chakra and power doesn't equal a stronger susanoo you say? Really?????

Then thinking The tip top of moutains (the weakest Points) are no where close to being the same level of durability of BM Avatar! Bee and Kurama tanked the Juubi laser which evaporated entire mountains (not the tip weakest points).

I'll ask again; what is PS suppose to do again? Even if we gave him Madara's PS feats (which had Reningan plus Hashirama (asura and indra chakra in one body btw)) boost, the most his PS did was slash mountain tops, not the mountains themselves!
 

BenjerminGaye

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
19,423
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Naruto wins all scenarios.
Iso susanno=/= perfect susanno since the user only has to make armor when using iso. Where as perfect susanno bones, skin, muscle etc has to be made as well.

Then there's the fact that Sasuke only pulled iso while being powered by naruto. ... yeah.
 

juzumaki

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
2,328
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
the only reason naruto even got damaged from that clash was because he used the bijuu bomb like a rasengan to connect to sasuke
and even after that he came out with lesser damage from the explosion with half of sasukes ps being destroyed and only half of narutos avatar face and shoulder area being destroyed
 

KidGamer65

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Kin
8💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Size PLUS CHAKRA does! Bigger sword with more power (chakra) behind it equals more power correct? Rinnegan Sasuke has God Chakra to back his Susanoo up, Alive sasuke not only had KC chakra but Curse mark sage chakra as well to aid him. All of that chakra and power doesn't equal a stronger susanoo you say? Really?????
Yeah, strength of the chakra is what makes Susanoo more powerful, these examples only prove my point. So, what indicates that the strength of Alive Madara's chakra is that far above Sasuke's? Never said that chakra has nothing to do with Susanoos power. I only said that size means nothing, and that is true.

Then thinking The tip top of moutains (the weakest Points) are no where close to being the same level of durability of BM Avatar! Bee and Kurama tanked the Juubi laser which evaporated entire mountains (not the tip weakest points).
Juubi laser obliterated 6 of Narutos tails, so it being far stronger than PS means nothing.



I'll ask again; what is PS suppose to do again? Even if we gave him Madara's PS feats (which had Reningan plus Hashirama (asura and indra chakra in one body btw)) boost, the most his PS did was slash mountain tops, not the mountains themselves!
1. Edo Madara and EMS Madaras PS are the same. They both cut Mountains.

2. PS=BSM Avatar when it comes to speed, strength (physical) and durability. Rikudo PS=Rikudo Sage Kurama Avatar. Take Rikudos power away from both and that equality is maintained. Rikudo PS took a tail from Rikudo Kurama Avatar. Scale that down to EMS and BSM you have the same result. Scale naruto to bm and he gets hit worse. So eventually, Sasuke will get past the Avatar.

3. Not to mention PS can fly.
 

Bogard

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
21,914
Kin
8💸
Kumi
3💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Flash Bijuu dama being the kind that 4tailed Naruto use, the same as Bee? I don't see how that does much, even with scaling from one bijuu to the next. A Perfect Susano'o or even Final Susano'o should be able to take it.

I'd say they're on the same tier, strength wise. It's just a miss match, as Naruto's arsenal is a bit of an improvement on Naruto's. His cloak can remove the threat of Amaterasu, with the durability to take anything Sasuke has, including Perfect Susano'o. He has a superior and still fairly quick attack as it is, even if one or two can't finish his Susano'o. Multiple over the course of the battle should be able to.

Naruto wins with medium difficulties, it's just a poor match up for Sasuke.
Yeah i'm going with Will here
 

Sennin of Logic

Active member
Elite
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
8,874
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Again, the size is the same for Madara and Sasuke. There is no debate in this..


Actually, there is. Sasuke's susnoo could be Madara's size, but we have nothing to show for it. Even if you're using the 9 tails fusion as an example, Madara did it with full Kurama, who's twice as big as 50% Kurama. Even by that logic, nothing shows Sasuke's PS to be more than half of Madara's PS.
 

Draegod

Active member
Elite
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
7,432
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Yeah, strength of the chakra is what makes Susanoo more powerful, these examples only prove my point. So, what indicates that the strength of Alive Madara's chakra is that far above Sasuke's? Never said that chakra has nothing to do with Susanoos power. I only said that size means nothing, and that is true.


Juubi laser obliterated 6 of Narutos tails, so it being far stronger than PS means nothing.





1. Edo Madara and EMS Madaras PS are the same. They both cut Mountains.

2. PS=BSM Avatar when it comes to speed, strength (physical) and durability. Rikudo PS=Rikudo Sage Kurama Avatar. Take Rikudos power away from both and that equality is maintained. Rikudo PS took a tail from Rikudo Kurama Avatar. Scale that down to EMS and BSM you have the same result. Scale naruto to bm and he gets hit worse. So eventually, Sasuke will get past the Avatar.

3. Not to mention PS can fly.
Black: Fanfic to say they are equal when it's night and day clear that sasuke doesnt even compare in chakra to EMS madara, let alone Rinnegan Asura and Indra chakra Edo madara. It's one thing to say he can replicate madara's moves, but to say they are exact the same when manga shows (and its a fact sasuke never even used it to begin with) different.

Red: Where did you get that from?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

skinny red: No! Bijuu Rikudo Susanoo=Rukudo kurama avatar. Rikudo susanoo<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Rikudo Naruto avatar mode.

Please show me scans to where you are getting all this Made up Statistics with no ground under it to stand on from.
 

Bogard

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
21,914
Kin
8💸
Kumi
3💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
If it helps, databook only gave Perfect Susanoo to Madara. So it may imply Sasuke couldn't use it(at least not without Kyubi or rikudo power-ups)
 

Draegod

Active member
Elite
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
7,432
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
If it helps, databook only gave Perfect Susanoo to Madara. So it may imply Sasuke couldn't use it(at least not without Kyubi or rikudo power-ups)
Everyone who used it outside madara had Sage chakra or rinnengan (Kakashi, sasuke). And again, sasuke had a shit load of chakra assistance to help him fuse with Naruto. Now i'm not saying it isn't possible he could use it, just he need's a shit load of chakra to do so.
 
Top