EMS Sasuke vs 3rd Raikage

[Muki Tensei]

EMS Sasuke w/ thread restrictions beats the Raikage mid difficulty. Take away all forms of the black flame and he loses. Degrade him to MS and give him the black flames, he still loses.

MS Sasuke with Amaterasu/Enton shits on the Raikage.

 

[Apêx1]

MS Sasuke with Amaterasu/Enton shits on the Raikage.

I'm pretty sure he meant that, but I could be wrong.

 

[KidGamer65]

Ah why do you think so? Is it because the Raikage can evade Susanoo's attacks including the arrow? Also how does the Raikage counter the black flames if this is MS Sasuke?

Manga MS Sasuke at his peak has Complete Susanoo.

-Susanoo arrows aren't going to hurt him even if they hit him since it took Nukite to pierce him.

-Susanoo isn't crushing him with any kind of physical force since FRS didn't do anything.

-Amaterasu is his only way, but Sasuke can't use it in rapid succession nor can he use Susanoo and Amaterasu at the same time, and his Enton Projectiles are too slow to hit the Raikage. I've heard the "suffocate him with Amaterasu" argument, but all he needs to do is cover his face with his arms, or turn around so it hits his back instead. Nor will it burn Raikage quick enough for Sasuke to last, due to MS Strain. So that just sets Sasuke up to get shanked by Nukite.

-No Susanoo he can form is going to tank Nukite, which is on another level to FRS since the former ran right through him and the latter didn't do anything to him. Danzo's Fuuton blew a hole in Complete Susanoo, FRS would heavily damage it, enough to render it unusable, but leaving Sasuke alive at the very least, while Nukite tears through it like butter.

Basically Sasuke uses Amaterasu, Raikage blocks his face with his arms and then destroys Sasuke's Susanoo.

If we are talking EMS Sasuke in the thread, but with no Enton and Amaterasu restricted. He still loses as Susanoo can't hurt him, but the Raikage can get past Susanoo. He can't overpower the Raikage nor will Genjutsu put him down, not like he'll ever land Genjutsu on him anyway.

He probably meant that Sasuke wins in all scenarios.

Nope. Especially if Amaterasu and Enton Kagutsuchi are restricted.

MS Sasuke with Amaterasu/Enton shits on the Raikage.

No, he doesn't. He won't even last long enough to see the Raikage burn to death from the flames, and that is literally the ONLY way he even has a chance at winning. There's also the fact Amaterasu causes strain, and he can't use it while Skeletal Susanoo (and above) is up.

 

[Muki Tensei]

I'm pretty sure he meant that, but I could be wrong.

I hope so Lol

 

[Benjamin King]

A burst of Chakra should have enough force to push away Amatersu after hitting Raikage's body [

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]; and it's easily achieved with his Bijuu Chakra levels. It should push it in a similar fashion to Shinra Tensei. If that's the case, Raikage wins the battle easily.

None of Sasuke's attacks can bypass his durability and armour when Futon: Rasenshuriken failed to put him down. And keep it in mind that the attack had elemental advantage over Raiton, and without Futon existing in Sasuke's arsenal, he has no possible way to pierce him or damage him. Black Raiton at the hands of a Bijuu reserves, such as the Raikage, can potentially put down ribcage to V1. And with Hell Stab, he can pierce through a specific point of even Legged Susanoo. He should aim it to where Sasuke is hiding at.

Other than that the Ninjutsu part, he has greater reserves to outlast the young Uchiha, the Intel on his Genjutsu.​

 

[TheEvilOne]

Susanoo arrow oneshots.

 

[KidGamer65]

^ If only I could neg you again.

 

[Benjamin King]

^ If only I could neg you again.

I'll do it for you.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lol, good. Tard needs it.

 

[TheEvilOne]

^ If only I could neg you again.

What's your problem with me today?

I'll do it for you.

I don't care when an alt -neg reps me.

 

[Apêx1]

Manga MS Sasuke at his peak has Complete Susanoo.

-Susanoo arrows aren't going to hurt him even if they hit him since it took Nukite to pierce him.

-Susanoo isn't crushing him with any kind of physical force since FRS didn't do anything.

-Amaterasu is his only way, but Sasuke can't use it in rapid succession nor can he use Susanoo and Amaterasu at the same time, and his Enton Projectiles are too slow to hit the Raikage. I've heard the "suffocate him with Amaterasu" argument, but all he needs to do is cover his face with his arms, or turn around so it hits his back instead. Nor will it burn Raikage quick enough for Sasuke to last, due to MS Strain. So that just sets Sasuke up to get shanked by Nukite.

-No Susanoo he can form is going to tank Nukite, which is on another level to FRS since the former ran right through him and the latter didn't do anything to him. Danzo's Fuuton blew a hole in Complete Susanoo, FRS would heavily damage it, enough to render it unusable, but leaving Sasuke alive at the very least, while Nukite tears through it like butter.

Basically Sasuke uses Amaterasu, Raikage blocks his face with his arms and then destroys Sasuke's Susanoo.

If we are talking EMS Sasuke in the thread, but with no Enton and Amaterasu restricted. He still loses as Susanoo can't hurt him, but the Raikage can get past Susanoo. He can't overpower the Raikage nor will Genjutsu put him down, not like he'll ever land Genjutsu on him anyway.





Nope. Especially if Amaterasu and Enton Kagutsuchi are restricted.



No, he doesn't. He won't even last long enough to see the Raikage burn to death from the flames, and that is literally the ONLY way he even has a chance at winning. There's also the fact Amaterasu causes strain, and he can't use it while Skeletal Susanoo (and above) is up.

Can't he just go on his hawk and cast Amateratsu from there? And FRS isn't damaging complete Susano if it tanked Kirin imo. PS shits on Raikage, with or without Enton/Ama. One

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crushes him like a bug.

 

[Benjamin King]

@Apex + KidGamer65, would you agree Raikage's burst of Chakra can have enough force to push away Amatersu? Hyuuga are able to produce burst of Chakra (Kaiten), and that can push away Amatersu. Raikage possessing reserves of a Bijuu should be able to replicate this.​

 

[KidGamer65]

@Apex + KidGamer65, would you agree Raikage's burst of Chakra can have enough force to push away Amatersu? Hyuuga are able to produce burst of Chakra (Kaiten), and that can push away Amatersu. Raikage possessing reserves of a Bijuu should be able to replicate this.​

If him activating his Raiton Armor creates a big enough repulsive force, then yeah. However, I don't think it does, so no, I'm going to say no. Especially since we saw Ay vs Amaterasu, and he ended up amputating instead of blowing it off.

Can't he just go on his hawk and cast Amateratsu from there? And FRS isn't damaging complete Susano if it tanked Kirin imo. PS shits on Raikage, with or without Enton/Ama. One

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crushes him like a bug.

In a cave? Nope.

Complete Susanoo didn't tank Kirin, it was completely obliterated by it. A weaker Fuuton put a hole in it, FRS cripples it at the very least and Nukite tears through it like a hot knife through butter.

Definitely wasn't counting Sasuke with Perfect Susanoo. The strongest form of Sasuke I mentioned was Kabuto fight Sasuke w/o Kagutsuchi or Amaterasu.

 

[Apêx1]

@Apex + KidGamer65, would you agree Raikage's burst of Chakra can have enough force to push away Amatersu? Hyuuga are able to produce burst of Chakra (Kaiten), and that can push away Amatersu. Raikage possessing reserves of a Bijuu should be able to replicate this.​

Personally, I don't believe he can since his Raiton shroud isn't tangible, and if he could, he would've done it instead of cutting off his hand. I don't believe he can release chakra from all his Tenketsu merely because of his Raiton shroud, it's more like a cloak than a constant emission of Raiton chakra. Though I could be wrong, just my take on what I've seen from his shroud in the past, and it not being tangible whereas Hyuuga's chakra is tangible and potent to the point where they could change their locus mid-air by exerting chakra from a random place from their bodies.

If him activating his Raiton Armor creates a big enough repulsive force, then yeah. However, I don't think it does, so no, I'm going to say no. Especially since we saw Ay vs Amaterasu, and he ended up amputating instead of blowing it off.


In a cave? Nope.

Complete Susanoo didn't tank Kirin, it was completely obliterated by it. A weaker Fuuton put a hole in it, FRS cripples it at the very least and Nukite tears through it like a hot knife through butter.

Definitely wasn't counting Sasuke with Perfect Susanoo. The strongest form of Sasuke I mentioned was Kabuto fight Sasuke w/o Kagutsuchi or Amaterasu.

Didn't notice the location lml.

And true, but Kirin is still in its own league, its far larger than the explosion radius of a COFRS, so an FRS having anything on it is still far-fetched to me. It seems to me Danzo's attack was far more powerful than we give it credit for, when combined with Baku's suction.

Oh, my bad then, thought you were counting EMS Sasuke as a whole.

 

[KidGamer65]

And true, but Kirin is still in its own league, its far larger than the explosion radius of a COFRS, so an FRS having anything on it is still far-fetched to me. It seems to me Danzo's attack was far more powerful than we give it credit for, when combined with Baku's suction.

AoE isn't the sole determinant of strength. Chou Oodama Rasengan enhanced by Senjutsu can hollow out a Mountain. Naruto hit Kurama with 25 of these and the latter shook it off, but when a single FRS hit him, it briefly incapacitated him, thus FRS>>25 Mountain Hollowers. So FRS is close to the level of Kirin, which is a small Mountain/Large Hill buster, Kirin is still stronger though.

lanakui8 has already explained why FRS>Danzo's Fuuton.

FRS is hyped as a far greater wind attack. No one is amazed at the power of danzou's fuuton, Temari who's the most powerful fuuton user in the alliance is amazed at the power of FRS, and that's 100 chapters later which means it's the most powerful fuuton in the manga even with the higher powerscale.

Then we have the feats of FRS that I discuss in this thread:

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Mountain busting is something that would completely destroy a V3 susanoo based on feats, not just blow a hole in its back like danzou's fuuton did.

Now, unless you have evidence that Danzou's fuuton > FRS, all the evidence says FRS > Danzou's fuuton, and significantly at that.

Also, danzou's fuuton only did that to a V3, but sandaime raikage's nukite is by far the most penetrating attack in the manga so it does that to the V4.

 

[Apêx1]

AoE isn't the sole determinant of strength. Chou Oodama Rasengan enhanced by Senjutsu can hollow out a Mountain. Naruto hit Kurama with 25 of these and the latter shook it off, but when a single FRS hit him, it briefly incapacitated him, thus FRS>>25 Mountain Hollowers. So FRS is close to the level of Kirin, which is a small Mountain/Large Hill buster, Kirin is still stronger though.

lanakui8 has already explained why FRS>Danzo's Fuuton.

Wait, is this the KG that always tells me that DB is full of hyperbole's, disregards everything DB ever said about Totsuka and Yata despite being descriptions of their abilities rather than hyperbole's?.. So no, Chou Odama has no feats of anything comparable to hollowing a mountain, that should be obvious, since it's not slightly comparable to TBB, at all. And okay, don't see the comparison here, Chou Odama Rasengan isn't touching a v3 Susano at all, the FRS was clearly stronger, but this Kurama isn't as durable as Avatar Kurama imo, no reason to believe he is after barely losing any tails from the Juubilaser and being unmoved. And no, that analogy is flawed. I still disagree, nor do I understand your conclusion. If it can hollow 25 mountains, and Kirin is a small mountain buster, than how exactly is Kirin still stronger? You do realise that its hype doesn't say hollow as in create a slight concave in the mountain, but rather;
"Sage Mode" Jiraiya adds natural energy to this, rapidly increasing the size to gigantic proportions!! The created ball of light is a raging storm, coiling like a whirlpool. If it explodes, it can easily hollow out an entire mountain...!!"

So right now, FRS is more powerful than 25 mountain busters by this logic, meaning Naruto has been wasting his chakra firing TBB's when he can do something equivalent to Flash Bijuu Dama without even using his COFRS. Damn, dat COFRS.. Lol

I disagree with his statement. Sasuke on the platform:

Spoiler

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Now the same platform in front of the rest of the mountain

Spoiler

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The platform Sasuke is standing on is probably still larger than the FRS used on Sandaime, which is extremely small in comparison to the rest of the mountain width and height wise, so FRS somehow being comparable to Kirin is fallacious. V3 survived that, meaning Danzo's Futon is well above FRS since it could create a hole in the backside of Sasuke's v3, which could potentially be a weak point of hi Susano, or simply indicating Danzo+Baku>>>FRS.

 

[AlphaMaleLion]

Sasuke would win obviously

 

[KidGamer65]

Wait, is this the KG that always tells me that DB is full of hyperbole's, disregards everything DB ever said about Totsuka and Yata despite being descriptions of their abilities rather than hyperbole's?.

In case you didn't know what a hyperbole is, "Absorbs ALL attacks" "Blocks ALL attacks" that is hyperbolic DB text. No Limits Fallacy. I don't know why you and Strict are on about this "Its not a hyperbole, its a description of its ability" stuff when that makes no sense. "Blocks ALL attacks" is a hyperbole. Perfect example of the No Limits Fallacy in action, you are attempting to give no Limits to Yata and say its a valid assertion.

Me not saying Yata repels every attack=/=Me disregarding everything the DB has ever said.

So no, Chou Odama has no feats of anything comparable to hollowing a mountain, that should be obvious, since it's not slightly comparable to TBB, at all.

Bijuu Dama vaporizes large Mountains. Chou Oodama Rasengan hollows out a Mountain.

1. Which could be a small Mountain.

2. Not even up to 50% of a Mountain's mass needs to be displaced in order for it to be considered hollowed out.

So no, its not comparable to Bijuu Dama, nor is any Mountain Hollower comparable to Bijuu Dama.

And okay, don't see the comparison here, Chou Odama Rasengan isn't touching a v3 Susano at all, the FRS was clearly stronger, but this Kurama isn't as durable as Avatar Kurama imo, no reason to believe he is after barely losing any tails from the Juubilaser and being unmoved.

V3 Susanoo tanking a barrage of Mountain Hollowing attacks is ridiculous, not when Danzo's Fuuton tore it open.

Kurama Avatar is nothing but Kurama in a chakra form, as the manga has shown. There is no difference between their physical stats, and Kurama is still more durable than a Complete Susanoo, yet it was heavily damaged by Rasen Shuriken. FRS tears a V3 Susanoo apart, so no, Danzo's Fuuton is not stronger. Not by hype or by feats.


@bold: Kurama=/=Kurama Avatar in physical abilities. Not to mention it used its tails against the Juubi Laser, FRS hit it directly. No comparison can be made.

And no, that analogy is flawed. I still disagree, nor do I understand your conclusion. If it can hollow 25 mountains, and Kirin is a small mountain buster, than how exactly is Kirin still stronger? You do realise that its hype doesn't say hollow as in create a slight concave in the mountain, but rather;

Because not all Mountains are the same size, nor does hollowing out a Mountain mean that the whole Mountain has to be hollowed out. Here is a post from lanakui's thread, a reply to pretty much the same exact thing you are saying.

yet it also says a lot of things that are true. Do you have any evidence that the databook statement is false? If not, then why believe it's false?

I on the otherhand have lots of evidence that would show the databook to be true. For example, rasengan = chidori. kid sasuke's chidori was capable of making giant holes in a boulder. Therefore a rasengan this big could do the same. And therefore a rasengan thousands of times larger would be able to do that to a rock structure thousands of times larger AKA a mountain.

Then there's also the fact that the much small SM OR's pushing force alone was enough to send giant boss summons a kilometer into the sky.

COR isn't going to hollow out an entire Mountain, but it will make a hole in it.

Then there's the fact that FRS isn't being compared to just one SM COR, but 25 SM Chou oodama Rasengans.

"Sage Mode" Jiraiya adds natural energy to this, rapidly increasing the size to gigantic proportions!! The created ball of light is a raging storm, coiling like a whirlpool. If it explodes, it can easily hollow out an entire mountain...!!"

It has established a limit on it, hollowing a Mountain. So no, its not hyperbole. Lol. Not to mention all Mountains aren't the same size, nor does hollowing out an entire Mountain mean that the entire Mountain literally has to be emptied out.

So right now, FRS is more powerful than 25 mountain busters by this logic, meaning Naruto has been wasting his chakra firing TBB's when he can do something equivalent to Flash Bijuu Dama without even using his COFRS. Damn, dat COFRS.. Lol

Except he can't.

I disagree with his statement. Sasuke on the platform:

Spoiler

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Now the same platform in front of the rest of the mountain

Spoiler

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The platform Sasuke is standing on is probably still larger than the FRS used on Sandaime, which is extremely small in comparison to the rest of the mountain width and height wise, so FRS somehow being comparable to Kirin is fallacious. V3 survived that, meaning Danzo's Futon is well above FRS since it could create a hole in the backside of Sasuke's v3, which could potentially be a weak point of hi Susano, or simply indicating Danzo+Baku>>>FRS.

The only fallacious thing is you using AoE alone to determine the strength of an attack.

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, so even if you want to play it by AoE, FRS still has the advantage.

Not to mention Kirin raped V3 so it doesn't even need to be as powerful as Kirin to do moderate damage to it, meaning Nukite tears right through it...though its powerful enough to do heavy damage to it regardless.

 

[lanakui8]

No, they were actually pretty close to each other since Sasuke went to Bee, and was mid-air when Bee blitzed, yet somehow back flipped on bee's back. But he still countered, so I don't see the problem. If Bee actually hit him then I would agree, but he didn't, so this point is rather moot, as we don't know if Sasuke wanted to genjutsu all along. Sasuke said he can perceive his movements easily, and that Sasuke was still tired from the Itachi fight as Jugo said, so I don't see your point here, Karin wasn't necessary.

Sasuke physically performed his dodging maneuver when he was close to bee, yet he saw bee from a mile away. Later Sasuke only noticed bee when he was a lot closer and thus wasn't in a position to physically react like before which is why karin implies he's in danger. Sasuke showed that he could perceive bee's linear movements if he saw bee at a distance, not when bee pops up relatively close to him which is why he told karin to keep track of his position.

Base Bee was able to stop v2 Ay's blitz. I am not saying he was full blitz v2, because he was still in his transition state, but he stopped a mid v2 Ay, so I'd say he can do it. His reaction and striking speed feats are superior to Ay's. Ay only has movement going for him, and that wasn't as amazing as it seemed when he stopped Ay's punch. Just one example of Bee's speed, Bee is here [

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], Ay blitzes KCM Naruto from the very distance they are apart in that scan, Bee covers it and stops Ay [

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]. Another example of their comparable speed is here [

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]. v1 Bee is much faster, so I put him at above v1 Ay, given the difference in capabilities.

Characters don't always move at their fastest speeds, Ei's cloak affects his physical strength, the wanted to physically overpower bee which is why he doesn't try to blitz him. There are plenty of instances where a character pops out of the left field in order to save another, I can bring up the scan where base naruto traveled dozens of meters before sasuke could complete a kunai swing, that doesn't mean base naruto's speed > sasuke's speed. Ei's speed was the pinnacle of speed at that time in the manga, if bee was faster than him in V1, then he'd be well renowned for his speed especially when he still has V2.

MS Sasuke used Enton on Ay?..It's not as adept as his EMS, but it's definitely existent and works rather well since he could form them with his Kagutsuchi nicely.

kk

What? Bruh.. Kirin is Penetrative power and blunt force. It's like putting a nail and bashing it with a hammer, it's the best of both worlds. Look at Sasuke standing on that piece [

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] and then look at that piece in comparison to the rest of the mountain [

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]. Kirin is barely comparable to that platform Sasuke was standing on, maybe COFRS is, but FRS is definitely not close to it. Kirin took down the entirety of that place, it's on another league when compared to COFRS and those measly jutsu's. So no, Hellstab doesn't compare to Kirin, which is in its own league.

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Kirin might be a penetrating attack, but look at how wide it is compared to hellstab. The AoE of kirin is almost as big as the entire roof of the uchiha complex, the AoE of the hellstab is concentrated on to the tip of a spear, that makes the hellstab magnitudes more penetrating if all things are equal.

I meant the user surviving, but alright. No, we know for a fact a v4 wasn't used, because v4 showed that it took time to create since it's an entire armor atop of the normal v3 Susano. Itachi showed that it took him time to create it, no chance that he could create v4 in an insanely small time-frame. No, you are simply underrating Baku's Suction and Susano's potential weak spot from behind.

I don't think we can rule out V4 being used. If itachi has enough chakra built up in his eye, he can instantly pull out higher version of susanoo like V3, why not V4 as well?
Susanoo was never stated or implied to have had a weakspot from behind, danzou was refering to the opening he made in susanoo after he blew it open. If Baku's suction was powerful enough to put danzou's fuuton at or above FRS's level, we would have got a statment of people being blown away by the power of danzou's attack. Baku's suction hardly even increased the size of sasuke's katon.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Ay got caught only by being distracted, so not happening here in CQC scenario. Not only will Susanoo slow to his movements, but Raikage's Nukite as the penetrating power to juggernaut through that level of Susanoo.

And SusanooSasuke is going to replicate a Naruto feat with no intel? Nice.

Intel is none Sasuke one shots with genjutsu then. Hell Hebi Sasuke beats him with no intel...