Edo Itachi vs SM Kabuto

Brother Numpsay

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Please tell me how controlling the user has anything to do with what you were initially claiming. Also, Tayuya's Genjutsu doesn't have the ability to control the opponent, it only restrains them. So by your own logic it's incapable of making the clones go poof.
No it doesnt only just restrain them [ ].

Will reply later
 

Apêx1

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No it doesnt only just restrain them [ ].

Will reply later
Wait so it halts the opponent's moves and restrains them? Sounds like it just restrains them. Anyways, stop grasping at straws because you are avoiding the main point of this debate; he can't control the opponent meaning it won't make the clones go poof just like Naruto's clones didn't go poof. My god.
 

TheAncientCenturion

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Itachi outlasts Kabuto. With intel on White rage, don't see why he can't use Amaterasu on it to either try and deafen it's effects, or surround himself with it to help ward off Kabuto until the effects that White Rage diminish enough for Itachi to use Susano'o, as he did in canon.

In the time it takes the Sound Genjutsu to become effective after the music begins to play, is easily enough for Itachi to make a shadow clone to later break him out. I suppose Kabuto could attempt to use White Rage and the Sound Genjutsu one after the other, which might give him the match.
 

Beans2

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Right Lol..Gonna try and explain my thoughts to Beans when I respond sometime..Lol I see the kid getting lit though. He claimed Alive Itachi can do so one time but Zombie body be the case now Hahahahahah.
When did i say shadow clones are on the same level as wood clones? Lol

Guys. Itachi's clones can use Susanoo. I don't see how this is being debated when it's been done before in canon.

Look at the bottom left panel where Itachi is running, you can see the Susanoo being dispelled around his head. Next page, Kabuto hits the crow clone

And if that isn't enough proof...same thing happens here in izanami.

Itachi's crow clones have been shown to use basic Susanoo shrouds. A shadow clone can use at least a ribcage.
 

Forbidden Technique

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No it doesnt only just restrain them [ ].

Will reply later
How are you going to say it doesn't only restrain them, and then link us to a scan that say's it pretty much only restrains them, Lol. It first halts their movements, meaning it stops them right there in their tracks. Then restrains them in that position. No where in the manga or databook, does it say anything about the capability of controlling the targets movements.

Databook 2 said:
GENJUTSU; Mateki: Mugen Onsa (Demonic Flute: Phantasmal Crotchets*)
User: Tayuya
Supplementary; Close, Medium, Long ranges; Rank: B

Main text

One of the genjutsu that rely on the sound of the flute. Whoever hears it will be assailed by the vivid sensation that their limbs have been fastened with sturdy ropes, thus becoming unable to move about freely. At the same time, they are fed morbid hallucinations, which makes it also possible to run them down mentally. Given that the means of transmission is sound-based, it has a large range of effectiveness, on top of which it can be applied even without knowledge of the enemy's position, which makes for an exceedingly convenient jutsu.

Caption

-The sound of the flute beckons hellish captivity. Restraining the limbs and taking all freedom away!!

Picture comments

-Arms and legs restrained, in addition to which a genjutsu despoils one of any peace of mind!!

-Even without physical intervention from an outside force, the body is robbed of all mobility, and consciousness itself progressively fades away...

I personally don't think this jutsu is even relevant though. Highly doubt Itachi will fall to it twice.
 
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Haizaki

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When did i say shadow clones are on the same level as wood clones? Lol

Guys. Itachi's clones can use Susanoo. I don't see how this is being debated when it's been done before in canon.

Look at the bottom left panel where Itachi is running, you can see the Susanoo being dispelled around his head. Next page, Kabuto hits the crow clone

And if that isn't enough proof...same thing happens here in izanami.

Itachi's crow clones have been shown to use basic Susanoo shrouds. A shadow clone can use at least a ribcage.
Didn't that happen in Kabuto's head? Thus not applicable.
 

Beans2

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Didn't that happen in Kabuto's head? Thus not applicable.
So what if it happened in izanami? The genjutsu just loops events that already happened and replays them in Kabuto's mind. Just like how I showed you itachi's clone using a susanoo shroud in the real naruto world, and then the same thing happens again in izanami.
 

RedRobin

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So what if it happened in izanami? The genjutsu just loops events that already happened and replays them in Kabuto's mind. Just like how I showed you itachi's clone using a susanoo shroud in the real naruto world, and then the same thing happens again in izanami.
Where are they using susano?
 

Apêx1

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How is that trolling? They were all outside of Izanami barring the last page he linked, which is still canon since Izanami is a brief replication of what happened while Itachi was recording everything between A and A' [ ].
 

Haizaki

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So what if it happened in izanami? The genjutsu just loops events that already happened and replays them in Kabuto's mind. Just like how I showed you itachi's clone using a susanoo shroud in the real naruto world, and then the same thing happens again in izanami.
The bottom panel doesn't show Susanoo being dispelled around his head. Wonder what color you're thinking of...Now you claim that even happened twice(real world and in his head) correct? Now show me when it happened in the real world because I hope that bottom one isn't what you're using. Itachi already showed an instance of this with his clone not using Susanoo since that scenario happened more than twice.
 

RedRobin

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How is that trolling? They were all outside of Izanami barring the last page he linked, which is still canon since Izanami is a brief replication of what happened while Itachi was recording everything between A and A' [ ].
You are so desperate you are agreeing that the crows used susano lol. Its just so ridiculous I thought it was trolling. I know everything that happened in Izanami is possible in the real world.

But the crows sure as hell didnt use susano.
 

Apêx1

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You are so desperate you are agreeing that the crows used susano lol. Its just so ridiculous I thought it was trolling. I know everything that happened in Izanami is possible in the real world.

But the crows sure as hell didnt use susano.
That's not desperation, it's called being able to comprehend a few drawings. Don't expect a Tsunade fan to understand though, deuces.
 

RedRobin

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That's not desperation, it's called being able to comprehend a few drawings. Don't expect a Tsunade fan to understand though, deuces.
Hitting me with that huh. Now I know you got a little butthurt. Lol

Yes you comprehend very well except when your fave uses a genjustu.
 

Uchihakil

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with intent to kill,i see itachi winning more times,because he countered almost all of kabutos arsenal,crow clobe for tayuyas sound genjutsu
 

Beans2

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The bottom panel doesn't show Susanoo being dispelled around his head. Wonder what color you're thinking of...Now you claim that even happened twice(real world and in his head) correct? Now show me when it happened in the real world because I hope that bottom one isn't what you're using. Itachi already showed an instance of this with his clone not using Susanoo since that scenario happened more than twice.
This is him using it in the real world (being dispelled):

You must be registered for see images


Same thing happens again in izanami. Izanami is looped real life events, so it's impossible for something to happen in izanami that can't happen in the real world.

You must be registered for see images


Where are they using susano?
I put red boxes around Susanoo in the pictures above.
 

RedRobin

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This is him using it in the real world (being dispelled):

You must be registered for see images


Same thing happens again in izanami. Izanami is looped real life events, so it's impossible for something to happen in izanami that can't happen in the real world.

You must be registered for see images




I put red boxes around Susanoo in the pictures above.
Its real Itachi who then activates crow genjustu.
 

KidGamer65

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Its real Itachi who then activates crow genjustu.
Lol not saying that the example is legit or not, but really now? You can't be serious? Crow Genjutsu? When they couldn't cast any type of ocular Genjutsu or Genjutsu that'd require Kabuto to visually perceive something? Smh. Who did he cast the Genjutsu on? Some unknown 4th person? Maybe he broke the fourth wall and cast it on us? :lol

But considering you think that everything that happened in Izanami is possible in the real world, and since beans has already proven that crow clone Itachi was using Susanoo, you've basically conceded to his argument.

Not sure why people are trying to argue against EDO Itachi being able to do so anyway when not a single sentence of evidence has been provided for that point. Only Alive Itachi and the points dropped for that are sub par at best.

Hahaha I'm butthurt because I said you got lit? Aww Let's be friends again bro lmfaooo.

Irrelevant..Just irrelevant. His argument shows you that it's not just chakra that's involved and you can't use that as a reason to why they can use Susanoo despite that being the most powerful MS Jutsu in his arsenal as stated by the DB. You have almost no evidence that Itachi's clones can use his most powerful technique especially when the Manga never said or showed this in any way.

Wood clones let you allocate any amount but what you're saying(Shadow clones is the same as wood clones earlier) is not backed up. You clam half a wood clone= Half a Shadow clone except for those differences you mentioned but that's obviously not true. The Wood clone alters chakra in your cells unlike Shadow clones and the power levels between clones aren't the same. Some are naturally stronger and more durable regardless of the same chakra percentage. Water clone only requires 10 but it is stronger than the shadow considering it enables one use the same ability with less chakra... I don't see why Kishi would be emphasizing on this if all clones could just pull this feat of the user's ability as long as they have the required amount of chakra. So if you're going to claim Madara can do so with his shadow clones like you tried to in post #17, then you need proof..Madara could have been focusing more power in those clones so this Madara had enough chakra to do so meaning Itachi can with a different type doesn't mean anything. Otherwise why would you make that comparison of both being the same when you had no idea of the amount of power focused in those wood clones? I wonder?

Correction, Madara was able to do so because of the amount of power focused in the clones and because the wood clones had the ability to do so. Let me ask you something, You said Madara had the ability to do so because of the chakra right? Then that means he can use multiple PS because he had the infinite chakra to do so in Edo form. Then I wonder why he didn't? This pulls you to either accept the claim that Wood clones have half the users chakra or weaker so they can't or simply because they do not possess that ability despite the infinite chakra he had because the former is wrong.
1. Your only argument for Itachi's clones not using at this point is "hurr durr strongest tech" when that is a terrible argument for the simple fact that Madara has shown to use Susanoo w/ clones. Then there's the fact that Susanoo comes in levels, and V4 Susanoo is his strongest tech. Not Ribcage. If all you have are disingenuous comparisons and weak arguments you shouldn't have wasted my time replying. What's equally ironic is that is the same exact thing I told you when you tried to claim that Kisame's 10% power clones could use WD and GSB. The only difference is, my usage of the point worked back then because we were only talking 10%. Your usage is poor since we are talking about a clone with half Itachi's chakra, and he's already on panel using V4 Susanoo on his deathbed. To make it even worse for you people, I'm only claiming he uses Ribcage, to block one attack. But anyway, don't mention RedRobin's argument again when I've already addressed it.

2. What? Wood Clones "altering chakra in your cells" doesn't change the fact that a wood clone w/ half the original's chakra will output equal power to a shadow clone w/ half the original's chakra as they both have the same amount of chakra from the same exact source. Nothing you are even saying here makes a bit of sense and/or it's irrelevant. Why mention durability when durability is irrelevant to the usage of Susanoo? Everything that separates the overall strengths of clones has to do with things irrelevant to the power of the jutsu, which is dependent on nothing but chakra. Water clones are inferior to shadow clones because they only use 10% of the user's chakra. If the clone sticks to techs that don't require a lot of chakra, then yes, they are the same. But on a broader scale they obviously aren't. They aren't even more durable, but that's all beside the point I'm making here. Not even sure what you are getting at with the bold.

3. Madara using 25 susanoo shadow clones is the only thing I'll concede on because I didn't take into account that he could be focusing more power to their bodies. Though the rest is irrelevant since Madara using clones isn't the evidence that Itachi has the power to do the same. It's evidence that clones can be used with Susanoo period. I've already provided separate evidence for that.

4. Lol you people need to stop grasping at these straws. Edo Tensei chakra amount=Their chakra from when they were alive. They don't have infinite chakra, they have unlimited chakra. Proven by the Edo Hokage failing to make as many clones as they normally could with the barrier up. That nulls this whole point. Wood clones were capable of using Susanoo because they carried the chakra necessary. Nothing more, nothing less. If Madara really did have the literal "infinite chakra" then he'd be able to make multiple Susanoo. Madara not having the ability to make multiple PS as an Edo means that PS takes too much chakra for him to use and sustain it after splitting his chakra in half. Them having some unknown strength over shadow clones that'd prevent the latters from using Susanoo is a baseless assumption made by you and Gold Lightning.

Though I already have a feeling of what reply is coming next. :lol
 
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