First post (IKratos)
Dealing with Katsuyu
1. You made a good point about how Katsuyu’s acid is too slow to land a hit on a large animal target therefore Kakuzu can avoid with ease.
2. I agree that Kakuzu can take care of Katsuyu through long range battle but you didn’t say how specifically.
Close Combat
1. Domu tanking punches – I disagree with Domu tanking Sakura’s punches. Being as hard as diamond doesn’t prove anything since guess what, diamonds can be broken. Being strong enough to break steel doors isn’t conclusive evidence that it can tank a punch from Sakura.
2. Speed and reaction feats – you misinterpreted several scans to prove Kakuzu’s speed and reactions are superior to Kakashi’s (Kakashi let his guard down and thought Kakuzu was dead, by this logic I can say Kakashi blitzed Kakuzu with Raikiri even though that’s not the case because Kakuzu was distracted). You failed to address how his speed and reactions are applicable in a battle with Sakura.
3. I disagree with his thread mode being capable of significantly reducing the impact of Sakura’s punches. You didn’t provide evidence why it would.
Ninjutsu
1. I disagree with Kakuzu’sfuuton doing anything to Byakogou Sakura, as it was tanked by Hidan.
2. Sakura can punch the ground and make rocks fly up to protect her from Katon but let’s see if Mysterious utilizes this counter.
3. I agree with Kakuzu being able to utilize Raiton to paralyze Sakura giving him an opening to deal a finishing blow.
4. You did well in showing the speed of Kakuzu’s threads but could have developed his argument more, as in he didn’t explain how they could be applicable against Sakura.
5. You didn’t prove that Fire/Wind combo could “completely annihilate a body and leave nothing behind” nor did he provide evidence why it wouldn’t be able to be tanked.
Dealing with Regeneration
1. I disagree with Kakuzu being able to outlast Sakura by forcing her to overuse Byakogou. Sakura’s chakra reserves are far above Kakuzu’s and not showing any signs of chakra exhaustion in his fight against Kakashi isn’t proof that these techniques can be spammed until Sakura is outlasted.
2. The only elemental attacks I can see doing any damage to Sakura are Raiton: Gian, and maybe his Fire+Wind Combo. Though she would still be able to heal from the latter two if they don’t hit her in a vital spot.
3. I agree that Gian to the brain is gg Sakura.
First post (Mysterious)
Background power
1. I’m just going to ignore this as I know it was a copy/paste and it made your post unnecessarily long. Debates have to include original content only. Not only that but nowhere in here did you explain how it was relevant to a battle with Kakuzu.
Counters to Kakuzu’s abilities
1. I agree that Domu cannot tank a punch from Sakura but you did a poor job explaining it, because comparing it to Gaara’s and Sasuke’s absolute defenses hold no relevance. You made an assertion without explaining why.
2. Frankly your explanation for Katsuyu being able to replicate Kakashi’s speed feat of him “coming out of nowhere” makes no sense. Kakashi was barely able to intercept and a slug is much slower than him, plus it wouldn’t provide sufficient protection from Gian since Katsuyu has a watery body and water just conducts lightning. You did provide a nice speed feat of Sakura dodging acid but Kakuzu can compensate for this by using multiple streams of lightning to nail her, like Ikratos pointed out in his first post. You did misinterpret the page with Sakura and Kaguya’s chakra arms. Katsuyu spreading out around the battlefield is a good way to deal with blind spots, but Kakuzu can just wreck all the little slugs with his fire+wind combo to kill them…let’s see if Ikratos uses this counter.
3. You didn’t provide evidence that Sakura can dodge Kakuzu’sfuuton. Being trained in evasion arts doesn’t constitute as proof. Dodging iron sand blocks isn’t proof either since it has a much smaller area of effect. Fuuton doesn’t require much build up time either and slug acid is easily evaded. I do agree though that Katsuyu can shield her from the damage or she can straight up tank it with Byakogou…though for that last point, why didn’t you show the scan of Hidan tanking the jutsu from point blank range and draw a comparison to Sakura?
4. I agree with this counter to Katon or the Katon/Fuuton combo.
Close Combat
1. I agree that reeling in Kakuzu by his threads and landing a hit on him is a good counter for him trying to restrain him with threads (though he can just detach his threads to avoid getting KO’d, this works out defensively for Sakura). Same with chakra scalpel cutting threads.Katsuyu can melt the threads with acid I agree, and Sakura can keep a Katsuyu clone on her shoulder to serve this purpose. I disagree with some of your other counters though – sending chakra to parts of your body won’t automatically break threads.
Dealing with Hearts
1. I disagree with hearts being unable to react to Sakura or dodge her attacks. You made this assertion without giving conclusive evidence. She “blitzed” the bald guy only because he was distracted, and puppets are not a valid comparison seeing how they were engaging her in close combat, something Kakuzu’s masks won’t be doing. Not to mention, when she attacks one mask, the others will counterattack.
Counter to Dealing with Katsuyu
1. There’s no supporting evidence to prove Katsuyu acid will be fast enough or possess a big enough AoE to catch Kakuzu. Nor would her enhancing the attack necessarily make it any faster.
Counter to Close Combat
1. You reiterated that Domu is not tanking punches which I agree with but your reasoning in the into didn’t make sense.
2. You didn’t successfully counter Kakuzu’s speed or provide speed/reaction feats that puts Sakura’s above Kakuzu’s….although, for both of you I’m not understanding how speed is even a factor in this fight since neither of you explained how it was applicable.
3. I agree that threads are not a sufficient counter to Sakura’s punches. But uh…the scan you showed of Sakura punching the ground was already a Byakogou enhanced punch. Not seeing your point with the “imagine if that was enhanced by Byakogou.”
Counters to ninjutsu
1. You misinterpreted a couple scans. Sakura didn’t dodge Kaguya’s chakra arms, she moved out of the way and the arms followed her. The acid flowing out of the dimension isn’t nearly as fast as you’re saying it is, you can see it slowly flowing out in the bottom right hand panel of the scan, and she still got hit. But both of those are still nice reaction feats.
2. You’ve posted that scan of Katsuyu one too many times now. Katsuyu didn’t “bump” Shizune out of the way, she encased her with her body to protect her from the damage.
Counters to Dealing with Byakogou
1. I’m a little disappointed here as you didn’t show any evidence pointing towards Sakura’s stamina being above Kakuzu’s. His argument was that Kakuzu would spam ninjutsu and force Sakura to use up Byakogou. Instead you reposted the same counters to his techniques without saying why she would outlast him.
2. Your last paragraph was very wrong. If Raiton:Gian destroys her brain, she’s dead, it’s an instant kill, Byakogou won’t save her if she’s already dead. And Raiton: Gian is a piercing attack with equal power to Raikiri, you should have instead showed that Sakura can dodge it.
Second post (IKratos)
Counters to Sakura Background Power
1. Way to go with countering all the misinterpreted claims Mysterious made in this section which includes Sakura’s strength/speed/chakra/combat abilities. I for one didn’t read that part of her post because it was a copy/paste but you should get some points for reading through that and countering.
Countering “Counters to Kakuzu’s abilities”
1. I can see how Domu can reduce the damage from Sakura’s punch. However, you weren’t able to prove it could reduce the damage enough to where it holds any significance against her attacks or stop him from losing lives.
2. You did great to quickly shut down the parts where Mysterious misinterpreted scans like Sakura dodging Kaguya’s chakra arms or her claim that acid falling to the ground was near instant. You made a good point with Sakura needing to focus to see through Katsuyu’s eyes, something that can leave her vulnerable. I agree that Fire Release would wreck all the mini Katsuyus and you did well to support that. Only thing I disagree with is Fire Release burning instantly, killing before regeneration comes into play. What’s your proof for that?
3. You need to prove that Kakuzu’s wind release is actually strong enough to damage or kill her.
4.
IKratos said:
Already addressed why this punch wouldn't work.
From the above quote, I’m assuming you’re referring to the part in your opening paragraphs where you said Sakura’s punch only split the ground as much as it did because she was coming down from a high point and therefore had more momentum? While this statement may hold some truth to it, you need to complete your assertion by explaining why Sakura can’t punch the ground without jumping and make rocks fly up, albeit on a lesser scale. And frankly I fail to see the effectiveness of katon or katon amplified by wind when the rocks can take the brunt of the fire and Byakogou heals Sakura from whatever damage she takes.
CQC
1. You did well to counter Mysterious’s premise of Sakura sending chakra to her body to cut threads, and you demonstrated that his threads have the speed to catch Sakura by his feat against Kakashi, and showed that by restraining her limbs at the joints he can prevent her from breaking out of the threads with chakra scalpel. The counter to Katsuyu spitting acid was good. It looks like threads could be the game changer here.
Counter to Dealing with Hearts
1. You proved that the hearts can deal with Sakura defensively by staying out of range but why didn’t you demonstrate how they could pose a threat to her offensively?
2. You’re right about Sakura not being able to enhance Katsuyu acid with Byakogou since Katsuyu’s power is already in dependant on Byakogou. I forgot about that myself.
3. Sakura’s punch may not be able to explode on contact with Kakuzu’s soft flexible threads, but her punch alone without the explosion still has enough force to go through the threads and nail a heart, which then gets destroyed. So I’m not seeing how this is a game changer.
4. I disagree with Sakura’s punch to the ground not being destructive. She can still make large rocks fly up, even if they aren’t massive boulders like with her feat against Juubi clones, and a direct punch to one of Kakuzu’s hearts is a KO.
5. You did well explaining the masks’ versatility and how Raiton to the brain is GG.
Overall your second post was a huge improvement from your opener.
Second post (Mysterious)
Domu
1. I agree with your point about Juubi clones being elastic so it was only pushed back, not destroyed like Kakuzu’s skin would be if Sakura landed a hit on him while he was using Domu.
2. You explained Sakura’s motives for following up with a punch to the ground after nailing the Juubi clone but I don’t understand why you think Sakura’s increased momentum wouldn’t increase the strength of her punch. Sakura’s punch explodes on impact because she releases chakra, but the impact itself would be much greater if she was falling from a height. I do think though that Domu can’t provide sufficient protection against her punches. Anyways let’s see how IKratos responds to this.
3. I see you repeated a lot of defeated points that IKratos already countered in the introduction. Most of these hold no actual relevance to the debate though because it’s just stuff you guys went over in Sakura’s background power.
4. I agree that there’s no difference between physical and chakra based attacks when it comes to Domu.
Counters to Kakuzu’s elemental attacks
1. Your points about the acid portal being instant make no sense. The liquid acid flowing out of the portal was by no means instant and while it’s still a good speed feat for Sakura, the difference between Kakuzu’s lightning attacks and an open portal is that the lightning mask can aim at Sakura and follow her movements even if she moves.
2. Your point about Sakura not needing to focus to see through Katsuyu’s eyes doesn’t make sense either. She’s not a Rinnegan user and she doesn’t have multiple fields of vision at the same time.
3. Your evidence for Katsuyu not getting burned by flames was weak. Ikratos already explained how slugs are mainly composed of water and Kakuzu’s katon already evaporated Kakashi’s suiton so Katsuyu would get evaporated as well. Kyubi’s chakra isn’t corrosive, only its chakra arms. Otherwise Katsuyu would have been turned into a puddle, no way could it survive Naruto’s 8 tailed form. Regardless it’s not sufficient evidence for me to believe Katsuyu can tank fire.
4. I agree with rocks protecting Sakura from katon. I agree Fuuton is doing nothing to her with Byakogou.
CQC
5. Sakura can’t reel in Kakuzu if he targets her joints and restrains her limbs like Ikratos explained. Sending chakra to different parts of her body doesn’t do anything to threads, you just showed chakra scalpel which is a completely different jutsu that Sakura can only use with her fingers.
Dealing with Hearts
1. Ikratos already stated the masks would stay out of range from Sakura so why are you saying he has to prove they can react to her when she won’t come near them?
2. IKratos already proved that Katsuyu’s power is linked to Byakogou seal and Katsuyu’s abilities (including her acid slime) are already enhanced with Byakogou. How can Sakura use Byakogou to enhance something that is already completely dependent on Byakogou? I disagree with your points here.
3. I’m confused by this statement.
Mysterious said:
If she goes through him which isn't happening.
why wouldn’t Sakura’s punch just plow through his threads and explode on impact with his heart? I don’t think his threads can offer sufficient resistance to her punch but you didn’t do a great job explaining why they wouldn’t.
4. The last part of this debate was just reiterating points that were addressed more thoroughly elsewhere. I disagree with Sakura surviving a bolt of lightning straight through her brain and I’m not going to take the time to explain why when it should be obvious.
Third post (Ikratos)
By this point the two of you are just reiterating your arguments so I’ll keep this part brief.
1. You contradicted yourself when you said Sakura’s punch on the Juubi clone was in a different league of power from her punch to the ground on the next page because you ignored Mysterious’ argument that the juubi clone was made of elastic material. So why do you think the elastic material that isn’t hard wasn’t a factor, but Kakuzu’s flexible threads can reduce the impact of her punch? The main reason her punch didn’t obliterate the juubi clone was because of its flexible material but I do agree momentum did play a role in it.
2. You shut down a lot of Mysterious’s arguments in her background power where she misinterpreted some of Sakura’s feats during the War arc like dodging Kaguya’s chakra arms, reacting to acid, blitzing the guy with sharingans in his head etc. Nice job
Domu
1. You got caught up in differentiating between physical and chakra based attacks that your paragraphs here weren’t really even relevant.
2. Agreed with Sakura being unable to telepathically see through Katsuyu’s eyes without focusing and you did explain well to explain how that could be her downfall if she takes a second to do that she can get snatched up by threads.
3. I still think Domu can’t tank Sakura’s regular punches based off Mysterious’s arguments.
Kakuzu’s elemental attacks
1. I agree with katon wrecking Katsuyu. I don’t agree with it destroying Sakura in an instant, nor do I think it will take very long for Sakura to recover from the burns. For reasons already stated.
2. Agreed with Sakura being unable to enhance Katsuyu acid with Byakogou. Agree that Kakashi with sharingan has better reaction feats and speed feats than Sakura.
CQC
1. You made good points with Kakuzu using his threads to restrain Sakura’s joints.
2. I disagree with flexible threads being able to significantly reduce damage to Kakuzu’s body.
Third Post (Mysterious)
Oh my god use spoilers goddamn.
1. You made good points in your last post about the force from Sakura’s punch. While I don’t agree completely that Sakura’s punch has nothing to do with her momentum I do think that her regular punches will be enough to plow right through Domu or Kakuzu’s threads and kill his hearts.
2. You are debating a lot of irrelevant stuff. These Sakura feats you are using against Ikratos have already been countered honestly and neither of you have connected them to how they are applicable in a battle with Kakuzu. I agree Katsuyu isn’t slow though but no way will she be able to keep up speed wise in a battle with Sakura and Kakuzu.
3. I agree that physical attacks and chakra based attacks are no different when it comes to busting Domu
4. You haven’t sufficiently countered Gian. Katsuyu can’t block it or bump her out of the way as Ikratos explained. She can dodge it but you haven’t done a great job explaining that.
5. Acid slime would not get enhanced because Byakogou is already linked to Katsuyu’s power. Or at least Ikratos convinced me on this point. Anyway you have failed to utilize Katsuyu well in this battle. You keep saying her acid attacks can be enhanced and how it would be a good “support attack” but even if they are how would they even land on Kakuzu when it was evaded by Manda, and how would Kakuzu let himself get distracted by it when he has multiple hearts on the lookout? I fail to see how acid is useful here.
6. I agree that wind and fire attacks pose no threat to Sakura.
7. You proved that Sakura’s chakra scalpel is a strong blade but you didn’t prove that she would be able to break free of the threads If they constrain her limbs at the joints like ikratos is saying. Katsuyu gets wrecked by Katon like Ikratos has proved several times now.
8. Byakogou can’t save Sakura if her brain is destroyed
