DoU Debate Tournament | Sakura (Mysterious) vs Kakuzu (IKratos)

Magatsu Izanagi

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Alright. I've judged the entire debate, and subsequently cross-referenced my judgement (since this is a tie breaker) with both Icelerate's and BaC2's respective ones just to make sure I was seeing all sides of the argumentation. My verdict still stands.

Since a post-by-post analysis isn't required from the 3rd, tie-breaking judge, I'll keep it to a few paragraphs explaining my reasoning.

Both debaters did a good job with their respective characters, using their arsenals quite well. Throughout the debate, Mysterious clearly established that Sakura>Kakuzu in terms of speed and reactions, whereas iKratos clearly established that Kakuzu>Sakura in terms of CQC and Ninjutsu. They both countered/debated these respective points quite well. I feel like this "back and forth" area of the debate was very even, and provided neither side with a significant advantage over the other. The same was not true for other areas of the debate:

First off, while Mysterious did a good job of explaining how Katsuyu can also be used offensively in addition to being a solid defensive support, he also started to stretch things a little when essentially claiming that Katsuyu could replicate Kakashi's speed feats, etc. Coupling that with the fact that iKratos did a good job of countering Katusyu on the whole (addressing both how Kakuzu can defend against it and attack on his own, especially with Raiton due to Katsuyu having slimy, aqueous properties which makes for a good conductor), and that showed me that Kakuzu can deal with Katsuyu without it making a significant enough impact on him for Sakura to gain a decisive advantage.

Secondly, regarding all points related to Sakura's punching and the hypothetical corresponding Domu defense: Mysterious did a solid job of establishing the diamond hardening being "unbreakable" as hyperbole, but this was redundant since iKratos focused on using it as a means to strengthen Kakuzu's durability and power, much like Mysterious did with the Byakugou seal in other areas. An argument here that really stood out to me was the whole "momentum" issue. Mysterious' main counter to this was explaining that Sakura's strength comes from focusing the chakra into her fist, etc, and not from momentum. iKratos was able to provide scans to back up his claims that momentum was indeed a factor, but there was one part that was seriously lacking: all iKratos had to do was bring up the infamous F=ma argument. It's simple physics that explains why Sakura's punches are indisputably stronger when she has that momentum: her mass is constant, yet she is gaining acceleration. Chakra or not, this would have been enough to prove your argument. Regardless, I do think regardless of that that iKratos gave a solid, plausible defense against Sakura's strength. On the other hand, Mysterious explained how punching the ground could create a good defense for Sakura against a good portion of Kakuzu's ninjutsu. Going solely off those factors, the debate was pretty close.

What really took it for me was the point regarding Kakuzu's threads. iKratos established that, once restrained, Sakura would be unable to cut/get out of the threads before being subsequently hit with a Gian. Mysterious didn't successfully counter this point (comparing the threads to Sasori's, yet they are quite different in behaviour and usage), which gives Kakuzu a clear path to victory.

There were other points I would touch on, but they aren't very significant in the bigger picture and were already discussed by the other judges. Hopefully this was sufficient^^​



iKratos is the victor, in my opinion. He established how Kakuzu can sufficiently deal with/pressure Sakura and provided a clear strategy on how Kakazu would defeat her via his threads (and then Gian), a crucial point which was not countered effectively by Mysterious.​



If elaboration/clarification is required on any points, then please, ask away, although it will not change my verdict.
 

Ambivalence

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That was a really nice debate to read, well done to both of you. Grats on winning, Kratos, and thanks to the judges for their effort on this.

Guess who's heart this is...:
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Zexion~

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Gian can't beat Sakura..or at least its very unlikely proper way would be to just remove the heart all together, still a nice debate.
 

EZQ

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I also think Kakuzu wins but i must say mysterious changed my whole perspective about this fight. As for the fight, Kakuzu wins via taking out her heart ( paralizing her first with gian so she can't move properly and then he catches her with threads). I don't think gian alone is the K.O since i don't think it can "blow sakura's brain". Given sakura's durability feats, the only thing she can't counter in Kakuzu's arsenal is lightining and then take out her heart.
 

DrProof

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Gian can't beat Sakura..or at least its very unlikely proper way would be to just remove the heart all together, still a nice debate.

Pretty sure Gian can beat Sakura lol. Sakura would easily overpower his threads once entangled imo, but she couldn't measure up to Kakuzu in CQC anyways. Gian is a sure fire GG especially aimed at the head.
 

FemmeFatale

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Bullshit. Sakura mustve been majorly restricted if Kakuzu won.
 

Zexion~

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Pretty sure Gian can beat Sakura lol. Sakura would easily overpower his threads once entangled imo, but she couldn't measure up to Kakuzu in CQC anyways. Gian is a sure fire GG especially aimed at the head.

Are you good its physically impossible to get out of the threads :lol

Nah she regenerates .-. unless you remove the entire thing altogether it will just come back, remove it and it has nothing to regenerate.
 

DrProof

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Are you good its physically impossible to get out of the threads :lol

Nah she regenerates .-. unless you remove the entire thing altogether it will just come back, remove it and it has nothing to regenerate.

You can't regenerate brain cells fam.. The Brain gives commands to the entire body system. Without it, the regeneration will stop due to the leader (the brain) being severed..

Pretty sure Sakura can break through them if restraint. Underrating her strength isn't smart. Those threads are durable, but saying strong enough to not be broken? Eh.
 

RedRobin

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The brain is much different from any other organ since it acquires information over time. Sure the brain cells will regenerate as long as there is chakra but the information will be lost. So if it hit the part of the brain that controls movement Sakura would need to relearn how to move. Memory part, she would forget all that information and so on.
 

DrProof

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The brain is much different from any other organ since it acquires information over time. Sure the brain cells will regenerate as long as there is chakra but the information will be lost. So if it hit the part of the brain that controls movement Sakura would need to relearn how to move. Memory part, she would forget all that information and so on.

Yup. Not to mention, Raiton: Gian would pierce through her skull. So thinking she would regenerate from such is ridiculous.
 

Zexion~

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You can't regenerate brain cells fam.. The Brain gives commands to the entire body system. Without it, the regeneration will stop due to the leader (the brain) being severed..

Pretty sure Sakura can break through them if restraint. Underrating her strength isn't smart. Those threads are durable, but saying strong enough to not be broken? Eh.

Her strength means nothing its physics, not in the mood to argue though lml

Nah
 

EZQ

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You can't regenerate brain cells fam.. The Brain gives commands to the entire body system. Without it, the regeneration will stop due to the leader (the brain) being severed..

Pretty sure Sakura can break through them if restraint. Underrating her strength isn't smart. Those threads are durable, but saying strong enough to not be broken? Eh.

Sakura's strenght is a punching strenght, she releases chakra at the time her fist clashes with something else and that's what makes her fist so strong, its not the same as lifting strenght (the one SM Naruto has). Sakura being able to punch and break things due to excellent chakra control doesn't mean her liftings strenght is high enough to escape Kakuzu's threads
 

-immortal-

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Kakuzu would win by defeat, good that the judged choice their awnser by simple logic and mangafact.
 
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