[VS] Doflamingo vs Rayliegh

[ToshiZO]

Marco is stronger than Doflamingo because he could partially fight an admiral to a stalemate. But, Jozu is somehow an exception from this logic. :yeah:

Are people this ignorant? Jozu had a life and death match with Aokiji and was frozen to the bone. Doflamingo, however, clearly wasn't frozen to bone. Aokiji had no intention of killing Mingo whatsoever.

What?

Marco is not stronger because of what he did off panel. He is stronger because he was halting Akainu completely without receiving singificant damage like everyone else who tried to stop him.

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He is stronger because he came out on top with a clash against another Admiral when he was fully paying attention to him.

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Lets face the facts, Aokiji froze both Jozu and Doflamingo, you have no idea how much stronger the attack was on Jozu or if it was even stronger at all, the fact is Doflamingo was not even looking at Kuzan, he completely ignored him and continued to attack Smoker but he almost immediately broke out of his ice, while Jozu had plenty of time to do something about it, but couldn't, he was even watching himself get frozen.

Now add on the fact that Oda actually on screen made Doflamingo use Jozu as a foot stool? I'm probably gonna get the pointless hax this hax that reply, it ain't about that, why would Oda make Doflamingo casually sit ontop of another character, ignore him and start conversing with his enemy so casually? He blatantly disrespected Jozu there, paying no mind to him while using him as a chair.

That is 2 times where we can compare the two and say no doubt Doflamingo got better portrayal than Jozu.

Now lets see the comparisons you are making. An off panel fight? Where did Doflamingo fight an Admiral for that comparison to take place? He countered a similar attack by the same Admiral which Jozu couldn't, that alone tells us he can push an Admiral to around the same difficulty Jozu could IF not higher.

Does this mean Doflamingo beats Jozu in a 1v1? Who knows, personally I think Jozu can beat Doflamingo. But no doubt Doflamingo's portrayal places him up there with Jozu and even above Jozu, to deny that is being blind.

 

[Lawlermelon]

Aokiji wasn't brought up as a means to gauge DD against Rayleigh, people were saying DD is weaker than some of WB's commanders then Aokiji was brought up to compare how DD handled his attack and how a WB commander handled the same attack. Most people in this thread agree Rayleigh would beat Doffy what most don't agree on is if DD is above some of the WB Commanders. Calm down and don't get your panties in an uproar.

And what I'm telling you is it doesn't ****ing matter if doflamingo is better than any WB commanders. Do me a favor and go read the ****ing threadtitle and shut up and stop going off topic. Create another thread to go be a dumbass in.

 

[Lawlermelon]

Doflamingo is in the middle or bottom of the top tier.

Doflamingo is on the high end of mid tier. *****

 

[Punk Hazard]

What?

Marco is not stronger because of what he did off panel. He is stronger because he was halting Akainu completely without receiving singificant damage like everyone else who tried to stop him.

Spoiler

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He is stronger because he came out on top with a clash against another Admiral when he was fully paying attention to him.

Spoiler

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Lets face the facts, Aokiji froze both Jozu and Doflamingo, you have no idea how much stronger the attack was on Jozu or if it was even stronger at all, the fact is Doflamingo was not even looking at Kuzan, he completely ignored him and continued to attack Smoker but he almost immediately broke out of his ice, while Jozu had plenty of time to do something about it, but couldn't, he was even watching himself get frozen.

Now add on the fact that Oda actually on screen made Doflamingo use Jozu as a foot stool? I'm probably gonna get the pointless hax this hax that reply, it ain't about that, why would Oda make Doflamingo casually sit ontop of another character, ignore him and start conversing with his enemy so casually? He blatantly disrespected Jozu there, paying no mind to him while using him as a chair.

That is 2 times where we can compare the two and say no doubt Doflamingo got better portrayal than Jozu.

Now lets see the comparisons you are making. An off panel fight? Where did Doflamingo fight an Admiral for that comparison to take place? He countered a similar attack by the same Admiral which Jozu couldn't, that alone tells us he can push an Admiral to around the same difficulty Jozu could IF not higher.

Does this mean Doflamingo beats Jozu in a 1v1? Who knows, personally I think Jozu can beat Doflamingo. But no doubt Doflamingo's portrayal places him up there with Jozu and even above Jozu, to deny that is being blind.

Because Aokiji doesn't exhibit any physical strain when creating any ice techniques, even when fighting Whitebeard, the most accurate gauge of the strength of his attacks is the amount of ice created. The ice on Doflamingo and the ice on Jozu were pretty much the same, but what indicates the ice on Doffy being stronger is the fact that the ice created stretched across the floor and struck the ocean as well. The ice created on Jozu was created on his body only. That's how we know the ice on Doflamingo was stronger.

 

[Lawlermelon]

Because Aokiji doesn't exhibit any physical strain when creating any ice techniques, even when fighting Whitebeard, the most accurate gauge of the strength of his attacks is the amount of ice created. The ice on Doflamingo and the ice on Jozu were pretty much the same, but what indicates the ice on Doffy being stronger is the fact that the ice created stretched across the floor and struck the ocean as well. The ice created on Jozu was created on his body only. That's how we know the ice on Doflamingo was stronger.

Oh look. He's making shit up from his ass again. I'm sure you can pull anything out of your ass no matter how big because of how often your dad gives it to you up there. Stfu

 

[Bogard]

There is a reason why this was indicated by Oda

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Doflamingo was just lucky Kuzan didn't bother freezing him through and through like he did with Jozu

On one hand, you have a guy who only aim at stopping/warning someone while hands in his pockets, on the other side we have same guy in a war situation with his hands full on another

Yet people still want to compare both scenarios

 

[-Akuma-]

Almost frozen to the bone yet he broke out of it on his own? Right. Jozu? Yeah it's not like he held him in place while he sat on his back and had a conversation with Crocodile while Jozu couldn't do anything, right? Didn't Aokiji actually keep Jozu frozen at MF? Marco is above the other commanders because of his fruit, he even heals from Haki hits so the only way to beat him is nullifying his DF so why bother bringing him into this when it's primarily if Doffy's > Jozu and Vista.

Almost frozen through was the reasonhe could escape, Jozu was froze thtrnough and his arm fell off. Again you bring you bring DD cataching people off guard as feats? Well I guess the Yeti Cool brothers are stronger than Zoro? Stitching orgns isn't healing your wound properly while that's only internal injures. DD can't take on a top tier, both Vista and Jozu have stalemated one.

 

[-Akuma-]

He is literally the only person other then whitebeard (one of the strongest in the series) to break out of kuzan ice why r u treating it like it acts as a negative against doffy if anything it shows that doffy would not just get one shotted by akoji

Kuzan wasn't serious and Doffy was panting after that one blow. That still doesn't jusfiy DD being stronger.

 

[Punk Hazard]

There is a reason why this was indicated by Oda

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Doflamingo was just lucky Kuzan didn't bother freezing him through and through like he did with Jozu

On one hand, you have a guy who only aim at stopping/warning someone while hands in his pockets, on the other side we have same guy in a war situation with his hands full on another

Yet people still want to compare both scenarios

Yes. One can easily argue that the reason Doflamingo wasn't frozen through and through was because he broke the ice before it got that far.

Kuzan's hands are a non-factor. He froze Jozu to the point that he couldn't break out just by touching him lightly with his palm. He froze miles and miles of ocean with ice strong enough to last a week just by dipping half of his hand below the surface. Kuzan's body language has NEVER been an indication of the strength of his ice, so his hands being in his pockets prove absolutely nothing.

Jozu also wasn't frozen through and through either, as they were able to thaw him out on the ship like they did to Luffy and Robin.

Kuzan wasn't serious and Doffy was panting after that one blow. That still doesn't jusfiy DD being stronger.

I thought this was indication of how much effort it required Doffy to break it too. However, someone pointed out something that's just as good an explanation: How does one breath while frozen? He was panting because while frozen, air circulation was cut off.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Yes. One can easily argue that the reason Doflamingo wasn't frozen through and through was because he broke the ice before it got that far.

Kuzan's hands are a non-factor. He froze Jozu to the point that he couldn't break out just by touching him lightly with his palm. He froze miles and miles of ocean with ice strong enough to last a week just by dipping half of his hand below the surface. Kuzan's body language has NEVER been an indication of the strength of his ice, so his hands being in his pockets prove absolutely nothing.

Jozu also wasn't frozen through and through either, as they were able to thaw him out on the ship like they did to Luffy and Robin.

I thought this was indication of how much effort it required Doffy to break it too. However, someone pointed out something that's just as good an explanation: How does one breath while frozen? He was panting because while frozen, air circulation was cut off.

That was me lol

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Kuzan wasn't serious and Doffy was panting after that one blow. That still doesn't jusfiy DD being stronger.

Kuzan wasn't serious because doffy wasn't even targeting him.... Kizaru and akoiji weren't even serious during war tbh...

As for breathing hard as was whitebeard and everyone shown after being frozen by akoiji ... When robin got frozen there was only certain amount of time hmmm I wonder why

Let me ask u something ... Have u ever tried to breath against something like a coat pillow etc... Well u can't at least not for long ... Ice like any other solid object doesn't let oxygen doesn't flow as easily as it does compared to being able to breath freely

Being encased in ice would cut off your air circulation ...... So yeah doffy was breathing hard ... Not to mention he was pretty pissed at law nd luffy for ****ing up the lavatory... And being attacked by akoji ... So yeah when ur angry guess what happens more blood starts flowing what's in blood ? Hemoglobin .... What does that do has oxygen travel through the blood ... Now what happens when that is taken away from u for period of time even if seconds ... Your body craves for it especially in an annoyed state


Lastly why do u and almost every one else on the base try to down play dofflamingo' feats as if they r not legit ?

U guys try so hard to downplay his capabilities

Like ppl seriously r saying law did not really help luffy win ... Have u ever had your organs burst or even tear.... I've had a tear in my stomach lining and I was in pain for weeks doffy had all of his organs burst at once and in an instant stiched them together to keep himself from dying he even stated it doesn't heal him just helps keep them pumping etc... Yet ppl act as if that feat miniscule

Yes I'm a doffy (and Kuma) fanboy but I will never rate him anymore that he has shown through feats or Portryal .... And with his feats and Portryal he could easily be a first mate .... For yonko or abnormal vice admiral ...

Those type of characters while under admirals in terms of overall strength can contend with an admiral in a fight but they would lose most likely mid or in Marcos case high diff

 

[ToshiZO]

Kuzan wasn't serious and Doffy was panting after that one blow. That still doesn't jusfiy DD being stronger.

So?

Doflamingo pretty much ignored Kuzan.

but what indicates the ice on Doffy being stronger is the fact that the ice created stretched across the floor and struck the ocean as well.

Could be.

Theres this argument and then theres the argument where Kuzan did a more concentrated freeze on Jozu

Yes. One can easily argue that the reason Doflamingo wasn't frozen through and through was because he broke the ice before it got that far.

This makes sense.

How does one breath while frozen? He was panting because while frozen, air circulation was cut off

WB wasn't panting though, so its still portrayal in a way. Which is what everyone in this thread needs to understand, Doflamingo recieved better portrayal than Jozu especially when he sat ontop of him and ignored him.

 

[-Akuma-]

So?

Doflamingo pretty much ignored Kuzan.

And? Doffy ignored Kuzan and got punked.

Yes. One can easily argue that the reason Doflamingo wasn't frozen through and through was because he broke the ice before it got that far.

Kuzan's hands are a non-factor. He froze Jozu to the point that he couldn't break out just by touching him lightly with his palm. He froze miles and miles of ocean with ice strong enough to last a week just by dipping half of his hand below the surface. Kuzan's body language has NEVER been an indication of the strength of his ice, so his hands being in his pockets prove absolutely nothing.

Jozu also wasn't frozen through and through either, as they were able to thaw him out on the ship like they did to Luffy and Robin.

I thought this was indication of how much effort it required Doffy to break it too. However, someone pointed out something that's just as good an explanation: How does one breath while frozen? He was panting because while frozen, air circulation was cut off.

The same reason WB wasn't panting. As for DD he frozen for a couple of second at best, someone with his stamina and enduance shouldn't be like that only after a couple of seconds if he didn't just have air.

Kuzan wasn't serious because doffy wasn't even targeting him.... Kizaru and akoiji weren't even serious during war tbh...

As for breathing hard as was whitebeard and everyone shown after being frozen by akoiji ... When robin got frozen there was only certain amount of time hmmm I wonder why

Let me ask u something ... Have u ever tried to breath against something like a coat pillow etc... Well u can't at least not for long ... Ice like any other solid object doesn't let oxygen doesn't flow as easily as it does compared to being able to breath freely

Being encased in ice would cut off your air circulation ...... So yeah doffy was breathing hard ... Not to mention he was pretty pissed at law nd luffy for ****ing up the lavatory... And being attacked by akoji ... So yeah when ur angry guess what happens more blood starts flowing what's in blood ? Hemoglobin .... What does that do has oxygen travel through the blood ... Now what happens when that is taken away from u for period of time even if seconds ... Your body craves for it especially in an annoyed state


Lastly why do u and almost every one else on the base try to down play dofflamingo' feats as if they r not legit ?

U guys try so hard to downplay his capabilities

Like ppl seriously r saying law did not really help luffy win ... Have u ever had your organs burst or even tear.... I've had a tear in my stomach lining and I was in pain for weeks doffy had all of his organs burst at once and in an instant stiched them together to keep himself from dying he even stated it doesn't heal him just helps keep them pumping etc... Yet ppl act as if that feat miniscule

Yes I'm a doffy (and Kuma) fanboy but I will never rate him anymore that he has shown through feats or Portryal .... And with his feats and Portryal he could easily be a first mate .... For yonko or abnormal vice admiral ...

Those type of characters while under admirals in terms of overall strength can contend with an admiral in a fight but they would lose most likely mid or in Marcos case high diff

Kuzan came and targeted DD, Kuzan wasn't serious because he didn't view DD as a big threat at the time.


WB wasn't shown panting after being frozen by Kuzan and don't try and compare me to someone with superhuman endruance and durability.

The rest of your post is irrelevant because I haven't downplayed DD.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

And? Doffy ignored Kuzan and got punked.



The same reason WB wasn't panting. As for DD he frozen for a couple of second at best, someone with his stamina and enduance shouldn't be like that only after a couple of seconds if he didn't just have air.




Kuzan came and targeted DD, Kuzan wasn't serious because he didn't view DD as a big threat at the time.


WB wasn't shown panting after being frozen by Kuzan and don't try and compare me to someone with superhuman endruance and durability.

The rest of your post is irrelevant because I haven't downplayed DD.

I don't understand why kuzan wouldn't be serious at this point I think he was dead serious ... He asked doffy to leave his friend alone he didn't comply so he froze him if ur referring to hands in his pocket thing honestly I think that's just his personality as for why he didn't have his hands in his pockets against Jozu I think that's obvious ... He was trying to get to whitebeard and Jozu was in way not to mention it was a war in which they were trying to kill ace a sap ...

The thing is he was never actually fighting doffy he just froze him however doffy escaped the ice before it could take full effect ... Whereas Jozu (being a one demensional fighter) could not ..... That action still holds up true if he didn't think doffy was s threat he would've never had to use violence in the first place if anything doffy was the one who seemed like he didn't view kuzan as a threat as he blatantly did opposite to what kuzan asked and attacked smoker anyway...


As for dofflamingo's breathing u have to realize he was rather emotional at the time dude... His entire plan was ****ing up and he would have to deal with kaido he was looking for luffy and law which smoker wouldn't give them up... Then a former admiral comes and confronts him for what he did to his friend... He was trying to find law and luffy to get Caesar back as soon as possible he litterally did not have time to deal with that confrontation... I know when I'm angry or what ever my blood pressure rises etc and I start breathing heavy especially when I'm arguing etc... Being incased in ice cutting off oxygen all in the middle of him trying to find Caesar is prob infuriating ... I honestly do not c how him breathing hard equates to this feat being miniscule ...? Someone attacked him from behind when he was trying to recieve information plain and simple

As for ppl saying whitebeard wasn't panting lol he was on his death bead litterally dying in combat (which I realize now cannot h used for proof of anything because the dude needed those things in his nostrils to help him breath before battle which he took them out)
And yes the rest of my statement holds true how is breaking out of something only the worlds strongest man was able to do not a good feat.. A lot of u twist doffy's feats and downplay them as if they r miniscule. U guys say oh it's situational ... For exp the other day someone said doffy only caught Jozu because he was distracted ... Well even if it were the case why is jozu distracted in middle of war ... In war u cannot just think about the person in front of u.. That's like driving and only focusing on the car in front of u and not the other cars on the road ..
And yes this entire manga is situational (Exp how luffy beat doffy in first place or luffy beating crocodile or luffy having someone like ivankov in impel down to help him survive the poison dude) each of u use excuses to down play his feats but at the end of the day the dude was able to accomplish a lot in his showing (not just wjth luffy and law, but everything that he has shown). There r some ppl who actually think if luffy and doffy went 1 v 1 luffy would win and that he didn't need law that in itself is just stupid... Why would oda show us so hard through illustration that luffy needs someone on his calibur of strength (law) to defeat someone like dofflamingo if he didn't ? It's not like luffy didn't have reason to go to dress rosa on his own he wanted ace fruit so no one could take it

All I'm saying is the lot of u litterally come up with any excuse to down play his feats

Kuzan was not being serious lol if he wasn't why resort to violence ? If it was kaido doffy would have not attacked smoker if anything doffy did not view kuzan as a threat and kuzan taught him a lesson ... However doffy was capable of easily breaking out
Kuzan if anything gave doffy a warning with that attack which is something u don't have to do if u don't view someone as a threat


Also sorry for rambling bro kinda half asleep it's 5am where I'm at lol

 

[sravan]

rayleigh wins and i don't want to mention the difficulty.

 

[HashiraMadara]

Why has this argument turned to Jozu and Doffy :|

 

[Punk Hazard]

Why has this argument turned to Jozu and Doffy :|

Explained earlier than more than one member. Because not everyone has clear feats, powerscaling is a key argument in VS matches for the OP section.

 

[HashiraMadara]

Explained earlier than more than one member. Because not everyone has clear feats, powerscaling is a key argument in VS matches for the OP section.

but how does Jozu helps in portraying the dark king????

 

[Punk Hazard]

but how does Jozu helps in portraying the dark king????

People say that Doflamingo isn't at the level to challenge Admirals, so of course he'd get defeated by Rayleigh.

However, Jozu has been portrayed as being capable of challenging Admirals and Doflamingo has been portrayed as better than Jozu. Therefore, Doflamingo should also be able to stand up to Admirals, and thus stand up to Rayleigh.

 

[HashiraMadara]

People say that Doflamingo isn't at the level to challenge Admirals, so of course he'd get defeated by Rayleigh.

However, Jozu has been portrayed as being capable of challenging Admirals and Doflamingo has been portrayed as better than Jozu. Therefore, Doflamingo should also be able to stand up to Admirals, and thus stand up to Rayleigh.

Where did Jozu challenge an Admiral :|