[VS] Doflamingo vs Rayliegh

[ToshiZO]

I'll refrain from bombarding this thread with a long Vista exposed post. I'll just say I'd be very surprised if Zoro hasn't already reached Vista's level.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Vista is underrated. He was able to keep Mihawk busy, which indicates great strength. Mihawk himself was the one who suggested that they part ways, as they were both getting nowhere. By portrayal, Vista should be very near Admiral/Yonko level though he'd ultimately be defeated by them.

 

[ToshiZO]

Vista is underrated. He was able to keep Mihawk busy, which indicates great strength. Mihawk himself was the one who suggested that they part ways, as they were both getting nowhere. By portrayal, Vista should be very near Admiral/Yonko level though he'd ultimately be defeated by them.

Hold up. According to you.

Doflamingo > Jozu
Jozu > Vista

and Vista is very close to Admiral/ Yonkou level?


Lmfao this would place Doflamingo exactly @ Admiral/Yonkou level, according to you who constantly spouts Doflamingo > Jozu.

Unless you are willing to say something as stupid as Vista > Jozu?

Marco should be very near Admiral/Yonkou level ultimately losing to them, so I wonder if Vista is already that, wtf does that make Marco? Stronger than a Yonkou?

Fix your powerscale its downright retarded.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Hold up. According to you.

Doflamingo > Jozu
Jozu > Vista

and Vista is very close to Admiral/ Yonkou level?


Lmfao this would place Doflamingo exactly @ Admiral/Yonkou level, according to you who constantly spouts Doflamingo > Jozu.

Unless you are willing to say something as stupid as Vista > Jozu?

Marco should be very near Admiral/Yonkou level ultimately losing to them, so I wonder if Vista is already that, wtf does that make Marco? Stronger than a Yonkou?

Fix your powerscale its downright retarded.

They're all close to Admiral level and all would ultimately end up defeated by Admiral level characters. None of that information contradicts the others. Marco, Doflamingo, Jozu, Vista, I see them all extreme diffing each other and losing to Admirals/Yonko at high diff, possibly mid. I also don't recall ever saying Vista>Jozu either.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Doffy, Jozu, and Vista would get beaten by an admiral/Yonko at mid diff or less. There's no way that Doffy, who Kaido called "too weak", could push anyone who is admiral/Yonko level to high diff.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Doffy, Jozu, and Vista would get beaten by an admiral/Yonko at mid diff or less. There's no way that Doffy, who Kaido called "too weak", could push anyone who is admiral/Yonko level to high diff.

Thing about "too weak" is it's not the same as "weak." Shanks is too weak to kill Kaido, but that doesn't make Shanks weak. Marco is too weak to kill Mihawk, that doesn't make Marco weak. Doflamingo is too weak to sit with Kaido, hence why he gets mid-high diffed.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Thing about "too weak" is it's not the same as "weak." Shanks is too weak to kill Kaido, but that doesn't make Shanks weak. Marco is too weak to kill Mihawk, that doesn't make Marco weak. Doflamingo is too weak to sit with Kaido, hence why he gets mid-high diffed.

He didn't say that Jack was too weak, so I'm pretty sure Kaido was saying that he thinks Doffy is weak. I just remembered that you consider that stompfest that was Sabo vs Burgess to be a mid diff fight, so I'm not surprised that you think that these 3 could push a top tier to mid-high diff.

 

[Punk Hazard]

He didn't say that Jack was too weak, so I'm pretty sure Kaido was saying that he thinks Doffy is weak. I just remembered that you consider that stompfest that was Sabo vs Burgess to be a mid diff fight, so I'm not surprised that you think that these 3 could push a top tier to mid-high diff.

Jack is just at the bottom of the ocean. Kaido knows he'll be able to survive and he can simply have him retrieved. It makes no sense for Kaido to say Jack was weak as well, since he was lamenting the loss of Doflamingo and attributing it to Joker being too weak to avoid that situation. Jack wasn't taken from him, he didn't lose Jack, so he'd have no reason in that context to say the same thing.

If Kaido meant "Doflamingo is weak" then that's what he'd have said.

Yes it was a mid-diff fight. I'm not like you boneheads who think that the difficulty of a fight is simply how much damage you take. The fact of the matter is that Sabo had to put in considerable effort to defeat Burgess, so it's not low diff. Sabo didn't receive any major damage or exert himself to significant exhaustion, so it's not high diff. That leaves mid-diff.

 

[ToshiZO]

So what I'm gathering from people in this thread is that, everyone and their mothers who aren't called the Admirals/ Yonkou are equal to each other. Ok.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Jack is just at the bottom of the ocean. Kaido knows he'll be able to survive and he can simply have him retrieved. It makes no sense for Kaido to say Jack was weak as well, since he was lamenting the loss of Doflamingo and attributing it to Joker being too weak to avoid that situation. Jack wasn't taken from him, he didn't lose Jack, so he'd have no reason in that context to say the same thing.

If Kaido meant "Doflamingo is weak" then that's what he'd have said.

Yes it was a mid-diff fight. I'm not like you boneheads who think that the difficulty of a fight is simply how much damage you take. The fact of the matter is that Sabo had to put in considerable effort to defeat Burgess, so it's not low diff. Sabo didn't receive any major damage or exert himself to significant exhaustion, so it's not high diff. That leaves mid-diff.

Kaido doesn't know whether or not Jack is still alive.

Sabo vs Burgess was a low diff fight. Burgess did 0 damage to Sabo, and the fight lasting 10 minutes isn't enough to justify making it a mid diff fight for Sabo when he received no damage.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Kaido doesn't know whether or not Jack is still alive.

Sabo vs Burgess was a low diff fight. Burgess did 0 damage to Sabo, and the fight lasting 10 minutes isn't enough to justify making it a mid diff fight for Sabo when he received no damage.

Like I said, I'm not one of the idiots who thinks that diff is just how much damage you take. It's a combination of how much effort you need and how much damage you take. Sabo can go the entire time without taking a single scratch, but if it takes him a whole day of continuous serious attacks to down an enemy, that shit was extreme diff. Sabo received zero damage, but he needed to exert himself against Burgess. The latter is enough to make it mid-diff.

So what I'm gathering from people in this thread is that, everyone and their mothers who aren't called the Admirals/ Yonkou are equal to each other. Ok.

Vista stalled Mihawk, an Admiral/Yonko level fighter.

Marco clashed evenly with Kizaru and was able to push back Aokiji and Akainu by himself both times.

Jozu stalled Aokiji.

Doflamingo has shown better physical strength than at least one Admiral, and shown to be at least as good as Jozu.

All four men have shown the ability to stall Admiral/Yonko level opponents in similar ways, either through direct feats or portrayal, but not able to outright beat them or push them to their utmost limits, nor have any of them shown anything that places them in a level above each other. So yeah, the most logical conclusion is that they're all within the same range, even though they might be individually stronger or weaker than each other 1 vs 1.

 

[A v i]

So what I'm gathering from people in this thread is that, everyone and their mothers who aren't called the Admirals/ Yonkou are equal to each other. Ok.

Can't two people be in same league despite the little differences in their strength?:|

 

[chopstickchakra]

I never disputed he was stronger. I'm saying he isn't that much stronger. He'd win after an extremely hard fight and in g4, Luffy is outright stronger than him, so comparing him to his master is ridiculous

And that's without even taking into consideration the fact that WCI Luffy may have already passed him by this point

Is Luffy a saiyan now? There's been little time between his victory over Doffy and now, and he's had no real combat to boost his skills since then so why would he be above Doffy just days a week or so at best after their fight? By the end of WCI he'll be stronger but that's because he'll be put in situations that require more strength to escape from then he was at DR. The growth from fighting a yonkou will push him past Doffy more than likely but I don't see how/why he would have passed him yet.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Is Luffy a saiyan now? There's been little time between his victory over Doffy and now, and he's had no real combat to boost his skills since then so why would he be above Doffy just days a week or so at best after their fight? By the end of WCI he'll be stronger but that's because he'll be put in situations that require more strength to escape from then he was at DR. The growth from fighting a yonkou will push him past Doffy more than likely but I don't see how/why he would have passed him yet.

People have this brain dead assumption that simply fighting a strong person makes Luffy stronger, even though Oda has shown time and time again that the Strawhats have to train to build their strength. Best examples of these are Sanji saying recently he had to train like a madman to protect his friends, Zoro shown lifting weights, and Luffy saying he needed to train after being defeated by Kuma.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Like I said, I'm not one of the idiots who thinks that diff is just how much damage you take. It's a combination of how much effort you need and how much damage you take. Sabo can go the entire time without taking a single scratch, but if it takes him a whole day of continuous serious attacks to down an enemy, that shit was extreme diff. Sabo received zero damage, but he needed to exert himself against Burgess. The latter is enough to make it mid-diff.



Vista stalled Mihawk, an Admiral/Yonko level fighter.

Marco clashed evenly with Kizaru and was able to push back Aokiji and Akainu by himself both times.

Jozu stalled Aokiji.

Doflamingo has shown better physical strength than at least one Admiral, and shown to be at least as good as Jozu.

All four men have shown the ability to stall Admiral/Yonko level opponents in similar ways, either through direct feats or portrayal, but not able to outright beat them or push them to their utmost limits, nor have any of them shown anything that places them in a level above each other. So yeah, the most logical conclusion is that they're all within the same range, even though they might be individually stronger or weaker than each other 1 vs 1.

When fight stamina can last 5 days or longer for top tiers in this manga a 30 minute fight, hell even a 3 hour fight isn't strenuous, you're gauging fictional fights on real world qualifiers. Sabo wasn't too tired after the fight to continue on doing stuff around DR so it shows he didn't use too much energy taking out Burgess. If he hits him with 20-30-40 punches it's not pushing the diff up because Luffy still low diff's people and hits them hundreds of times with Gatling(Hody). If length is the issue then Luffy had a mid-dif time of the Colosseum because that took longer than the Burgess/Sabo fight.

 

[chopstickchakra]

People have this brain dead assumption that simply fighting a strong person makes Luffy stronger, even though Oda has shown time and time again that the Strawhats have to train to build their strength. Best examples of these are Sanji saying recently he had to train like a madman to protect his friends, Zoro shown lifting weights, and Luffy saying he needed to train after being defeated by Kuma.

Idk if that was meant for me or it was supporting what I said but I agree there's training involved in their strength growths(anyone who denies this is ignoring the entire aftermath of MF) but the battles do play a role just not in the way bogard was implying. Luffy doesn't just become stronger now that the next arc started, but by the end of the current arc Luffy will be above where he was at the end of the previous arc. The shit they go through each new island always pushes them to grow.

 

[A v i]

Is Luffy a saiyan now? There's been little time between his victory over Doffy and now, and he's had no real combat to boost his skills since then so why would he be above Doffy just days a week or so at best after their fight? By the end of WCI he'll be stronger but that's because he'll be put in situations that require more strength to escape from then he was at DR. The growth from fighting a yonkou will push him past Doffy more than likely but I don't see how/why he would have passed him yet.

You probably skipped Water:7 and Enies lobby.

 

[OG sama]

Rayleigh obviously wins, Doffy isn't Top tier and will be surpassed the minute Luffy uses G4 again, which is either this arc or next.

There wont be any more training arcs and anyone who thinks the SHs don't get stronger with each arc is delusional, Luffy got G2 and G3 without needing to train on some island and he always shows us a new technique every arc. Luffys strength with his DF powers comes from his imagination with his DF. If he gets creative enough, he will demonstrate newer and stronger techniques.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Rayleigh obviously wins, Doffy isn't Top tier and will be surpassed the minute Luffy uses G4 again, which is either this arc or next.

There wont be any more training arcs and anyone who thinks the SHs don't get stronger with each arc is delusional, Luffy got G2 and G3 without needing to train on some island and he always shows us a new technique every arc. Luffys strength with his DF powers comes from his imagination with his DF. If he gets creative enough, he will demonstrate newer and stronger techniques.

Yup, that's why after Kuma defeated him, Luffy said "I'm gonna invent a new Gear," and not "I need to train. I'll do so by walking back to the Archipelago on my hands."

 

[chopstickchakra]

You probably skipped Water:7 and Enies lobby.

That doesn't make any sense. Luffy won that fight at EL. Luffy beat Lucci he was > him at EL. Luffy didn't beat Doffy at DR Luffy, Law and a bunch of other factors beat Doffy at DR. Luffy wasn't > Doffy at DR. Your post is irrelevant to the comment.