[Discussion] Do you believe torture is ever justifiable?

[Gintõki1]

Most of the politician would deserve a good torture.

"to kill a monster you must become one"

 

[NaNaNaaaaa]

Most of the politician would deserve a good torture.

"to kill a monster you must become one"

Become a monster to kill a monster and you replace the monster with a monster and no one wins

 

[Gintõki1]

Become a monster to kill a monster and you replace the monster with a monster and no one wins

Being a monster to kill a monster is not making me the same as the ones i'm going against.
Rotting out the evil doesn't mean i'm going to do that against the innocent as well.

 

[DroGGz0r]

Become a monster to kill a monster and you replace the monster with a monster and no one wins

There are different kind of monsters :| .
As long as you reach the desired goal, in some instances, the end justify the means.
At the end of the day, it all depends on the circumstances....

 

[GhostProject]

Alright. Then what about this?

Say there was a man who had planted high-powered explosives around a city in...I dunno...here in Australia. Like we thought someone did in the Martin Place incident. Say we manage to get him and we take him in to get the locations of the bombs. We have the option to torture the man, or to just question him for the sake of "integrity". What is more important here, a city with millions of people living in it, or our integrity and humanity?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all for torture, as it's a very risky thing to do. There are just times when it may be necessary, and we need to put aside things such as honour and humanity.

OT: Eh, not all for it. But it may be necessary, and even then there are lots of things people need to consider when doing such a thing.

The torture possibly wouldn't lead to anything concrete on time, as even false information is rewarded in torture scenarios. I would find the effort to be useless. You could get the information, or you could more than likely not. I'd suggest using the time for other methods.

It's an unreliable way of getting presently relevant information. Besides, integrity, honor, and humanity can be valuable assets in politics, I wouldn't sacrifice them so easily.

 

[NaNaNaaaaa]

There are different kind of monsters :| .
As long as you reach the desired goal, in some instances, the end justify the means.
At the end of the day, it all depends on the circumstances....

A monster is a monster and by saying the end justify the means then that just condones every atrocity ever committed because they all marched with that mantra. No circumstance justifies an act of evil, evil against evil is still evil.

Being a monster to kill a monster is not making me the same as the ones i'm going against.
Rotting out the evil doesn't mean i'm going to do that against the innocent as well.

Each side views the other side as the evil, each side has there view of who is innocent and who is guilty. Only the side that can take the high horse is really in the right. You cannot root out evil with evil, because then the evil is yourself.

Please read my post on the other page, it may give more insight to my point of view

 

[V h o]

Nope but it is one of the ugly truths of some countries.

 

[Bronze]

It should be necessary when the circumstances are dependent on information gathering. I also believe brutal torture should be applicable to punish criminals, instead of locking them in jail.

 

[Itachi 4 life]

What? Even those who torture innocents for the sheer hell of it?

Oh, I thought you meant people who have torture fetish.
No, I don't find sadism for the sheer hell of it over an unwilling subject justifiable.
But if we were talking about getting vital information then yes.

 

[DroGGz0r]

A monster is a monster and by saying the end justify the means then that just condones every atrocity ever committed because they all marched with that mantra. No circumstance justifies an act of evil, evil against evil is still evil.

And what I'm saying is that in some cases an evil is necessary to combat another evil. I don't say it's right, but the world by definition isn't....
Say that one person want to destroy the entire world, and your only way to stop this atrocity from happening would be to cease his life/torturing him. Both acts can be perceived as ''evil'' , but the outcomes are not comparable.

 

[Frankenstein]

In China that had a practice to take a thin glass rod place it inside the urethra of a rapist and shatter it. I approve of that :|

Ouch. Chinese and their torture methods...it's like they wasted all their imagination there.

 

[NaNaNaaaaa]

And what I'm saying is that in some cases an evil is necessary to combat another evil. I don't say it's right, but the world by definition isn't....
Say that one person want to destroy the entire world, and your only way to stop this atrocity from happening would be to cease his life/torturing him. Both acts can be perceived as ''evil'' , but the outcomes are not comparable.

Torture is different to being forced to take another's life to save others. Torture only has one purpose and that is to coerce or punish, no information being gathered from torture can be relied upon and to torture to punish is one of the lowest things a human being can sink to.

 

[DroGGz0r]

Torture is different to being forced to take another's life to save others. Torture only has one purpose and that is to coerce or punish, no information being gathered from torture can be relied upon and to torture to punish is one of the lowest things a human being can sink to.

What if it could be relied upon ?
Say you catch the culprit and you know for sure it's him and he has the information needed.
You find torture justifiable in this case ?
Because it's all coming down to circumstances as I said earlier. :yeah:

 

[NaNaNaaaaa]

What if it could be relied upon ?
Say you catch the culprit and you know for sure it's him and he has the information needed.
You find torture justifiable in this case ?
Because it's all coming down to circumstances as I said earlier. :yeah:

There is no way of knowing if any information you get from torture, if he cracks and many haven't, is the truth, anyone can and most usually do lie under torture, information gathered through torture can and often is a waist of time, time that could be spent in ways that actually do bring about accurate information.

A scenario where accurate information can be obtained through torture without a massive margin of error is an area of fiction, there is simply no way to know if the person is telling the truth and the time spent in trying to find out is better spent elsewhere.

 

[DroGGz0r]

There is no way of knowing if any information you get from torture, if he cracks and many haven't, is the truth, anyone can and most usually do lie under torture, information gathered through torture can and often is a waist of time, time that could be spent in ways that actually do bring about accurate information.

A scenario where accurate information can be obtained through torture without a massive margin of error is an area of fiction, there is simply no way to know if the person is telling the truth and the time spent in trying to find out is better spent elsewhere.

What waste of time and resources ? There are guys specially trained for this job(torturers) and guys who are trained to use other ways for gathering information (detectives, intel guys or whatever). This thing could work in parallel, it's more a matter of how well you're organizing the resources....
It's right that you can't know for sure if the information is reliable, but what I'm trying to say and make you understand is that in some cases/circumstances it's probably worthing the risk.

 

[NaNaNaaaaa]

What waste of time and resources ? There are guys specially trained for this job(torturers) and guys who are trained to use other ways for gathering information (detectives, intel guys or whatever). This thing could work in parallel, it's more a matter of how well you're organizing the resources....
It's right that you can't know for sure if the information is reliable, but what I'm trying to say and make you understand is that in some cases/circumstances it's probably worthing the risk.

But then you are torturing a person for information that may be incorrect when that information will likely be gathered before they even talk, so its an evil act with no point yet again, it would be better to retrain the men trained to course suffering to another human being with a back up of a high and mighty excuse, to work in intel and gather information faster than have then using an avenue that may produce false information that may slow things down.

This is a fun discussion BTW

 

[DocThao]

depends on whether they like Sasuke or Naruto

 

[DroGGz0r]

But then you are torturing a person for information that may be incorrect when that information will likely be gathered before they even talk, so its an evil act with no point yet again, it would be better to retrain the men trained to course suffering to another human being with a back up of a high and mighty excuse, to work in intel and gather information faster than have then using an avenue that may produce false information that may slow things down.

This is a fun discussion BTW

Hahaha, well, you sort of soloed me with this post Lol

 

[BlacLord™]

Oh, I thought you meant people who have torture fetish.
No, I don't find sadism for the sheer hell of it over an unwilling subject justifiable.
But if we were talking about getting vital information then yes.

Lewl, of course there's nothing wrong if the victim actually enjoys it. XD

 

[Karna]

Yes certainly, torture is justifiable in many situations like when Joel tortured those people to get Ellie's location in the Last of us, they were kidnappers and were keeping something from Joel deserved for their own greed, my point is when small people get in a way of a big cause for their own greed or a wrong reasons, given the cause it's totally justifiable to torture the heck out of them to get the info or even revenge, if that's the case, the way I see it ,torture is no different then beating some bullies up, only at a greater degree,

That being said I didn't read all the previous posts in this thread and this is my opinion as if what I would do or decide how far the torture should go, so there's that.