Do you believe karma exists

Sagebee

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Do you believe you do good you get good and if you do bad you get bad cosmically and live your life based on this.

If you do believe karma exists do you believe good wins out in the end or not?
 

Troi

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No. There’s no logical or scientific explanation for karma. Not even a spiritual one. It’s just a mindset that makes you do better in life. Much like you attract what you put out. It’s just a mindset. It’s not real. Karma doesn’t exist. The shittiest people get the best things and the best people sometimes get the shit end of the stick. If karma exists why would that happen? So no.
 
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YowYan

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I do think that what energy you put out into the world with your thoughts and actions, you attract.

For example; my hobby is gardening and I envisioned its design a year ago. I needed tons of really big hardplastic drainage containers, loads of wooden planks to build raised garden beds with and a wood chipper and all of that is expensive, so.. I "left it to the universe" for it to work out.

A little while later a lady offers me about 20 huge drainage containers for free. One of those things easily costs 50 euros.

Today I went to a stranger to pick up 1m3 of rich soil for my garden. The neighbour was in the backyard and I approached her about her glass conservatory. We talked about gardening and she randomly offered me her wood chipper and two large bags of hemp hay for free.

My mother in-law her late husband had a huge stack of high-grade wooden planks in her old shed to work with.

So, I was able to build several raised garden beds, acquire a wood chipper, and loads of huge hard-plastic drainage containers without spending a dime.

I have many, many more situations in which crazy lucky coincidences occured just after willing something enough and using connections.

Idk about karma though. I don't really believe in that as much. I know people who did some illegal things and earned between 30- and 40.000 euros..Never got caught and living the lavish lifestyle right now. Like some of you already mentioned.
 

minamoto

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I do think that what energy you put out into the world with your thoughts and actions, you attract.

For example; my hobby is gardening and I envisioned its design a year ago. I needed tons of really big hardplastic drainage containers, loads of wooden planks to build raised garden beds with and a wood chipper and all of that is expensive, so.. I "left it to the universe" for it to work out.

A little while later a lady offers me about 20 huge drainage containers for free. One of those things easily costs 50 euros.

Today I went to a stranger to pick up 1m3 of rich soil for my garden. The neighbour was in the backyard and I approached her about her glass conservatory. We talked about gardening and she randomly offered me her wood chipper and two large bags of hemp hay for free.

My mother in-law her late husband had a huge stack of high-grade wooden planks in her old shed to work with.

So, I was able to build several raised garden beds, acquire a wood chipper, and loads of huge hard-plastic drainage containers without spending a dime.

I have many, many more situations in which crazy lucky coincidences occured just after willing something enough and using connections.

Idk about karma though. I don't really believe in that as much. I know people who did some illegal things and earned between 30- and 40.000 euros..Never got caught and living the lavish lifestyle right now. Like some of you already mentioned.
nice fanfic...
 
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No. There’s no logical or scientific explanation for karma. Not even a spiritual one. It’s just a mindset that makes you do better in life. Much like you attract what you put out. It’s just a mindset. It’s not real. Karma doesn’t exist. The shittiest people get the best things and the best people sometimes get the shit end of the stick. If karma exists why would that happen? So no.
Newtonian thinking?
Post automatically merged:

exist???... since when karna is objet or person to be found somwhere...
Also, this
 
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No. There’s no logical or scientific explanation for karma. Not even a spiritual one. It’s just a mindset that makes you do better in life. Much like you attract what you put out. It’s just a mindset. It’s not real. Karma doesn’t exist. The shittiest people get the best things and the best people sometimes get the shit end of the stick. If karma exists why would that happen? So no.
Part 1 of 0

"There's no logical or scientific explanation for it"
Firstly, this is an absolute statement. Absolute claims are difficult to prove because they require a perfect knowledge to be able to confirm. That perfect knowledge must either be direct, such as knowing how any single thing works, which allows you to confirm how it doesn't work. Or it must be holistic, whereby you know everything else so you can confirm what little remains. These may not be impossible, but in a discussion or context where proof is the name of the game, they must also be proven.

Secondly, this is an absolute claim where a non-existence is being claimed. Now a specific impossibility like normal water not being made of chromium is easy, but a non-specific one, dealing with a vague concept that itself requires clarification is almost impossible to back up. (I actually wanted to question OP itself first, but your post . . . ). That's why in scientific studies, you always hear claims of new discoveries, but not declarations of non-existences. It is correctly said that one can almost never declare something to not exist. That's actually one of the strong points of the atheistic arguement, that they don't mean that religion is wrong, but that they'd rather have proof of it being correct before committing to anything. So basically, to declare a non-specific impossibility, you must know everything, quite literally. If you know less than everything, then you don't know what might occupy the missing parts and so cannot declare a non-specific impossibility. So unless you can prove perfect knowledge, such claims are always wrong on their own. It is more accurate to say that YOU haven't SEEN . . . whatever evidence you said doesnt exist.

And that's another matter to cover, the "you" part of such discussions.

Thirdly, the specifics of your claim are questionable. You spoke of logic. That is in the realm of the mind. The mind of a person is not perfect, it cannot always recognise things. So it is not good enough to base a claim of a lack of logic on. It is more accurate to say that YOU cant FIND a logical explanation. And since this is so, you also can't base a claim on what is already a near-impossible claim of a lack of logical explanation.
Note that this is just looking at the claims on their own, before any attempt at backing them up can be made and scrutinised. The proof thing applies all around. Just as one side must bring proof to its claims, so must the other side, scrutinising it.
Fourthly, you spoke of scientific explanations. Now i have already covered the matter of claims of impossibility. They easily carry over to the science part, so there is no need to do them here as well. However, there are some unique factors at play here. What does "scientific" mean? It means 'of science' which translates to 'of knowledge'. Since science = knowledge, by definition. The thing is, though, that it is not used by definition, but by wording to mean 'all possible knowledge/information, as if the confirmations of what people know are anywhere near extensive or qualified enough to declare what they don't know as impossible to be true. On top of this, if you look at what knowledge is, it depends on what people are even capable of knowing. It could be that some things are beyond people, so their knowledge may not be good enough to confirm impossibilities like this in the first place. Even if it is, you would.have to measure it completely . . . And even before that, the common understanding of what constitutes science is faulty on its own. People usually mistake the work of a few people among those known as scientists as science. Science is knowledge, the work of people is only an attempt at gaining knowledge. Of course, the fact that they are people has its obvious flaws in this context. Still, even if they could gather and process and then express all gathered knowledge, there is the matter of limits. Limited people in time and capability cannot cover all angles of any field of work, never mind one as extensive as the world we live in. This means they prioritise their efforts and direction. So before one even applies their lack of evidence, they must prove that there was a good enough attempt at covering any topic. And of course, a lack of evidence is still not enough to prove a lack of existence, since people are always learning. The whole Copernicus things shows this. I mean, if scientists are still debating the issue of the earth being halo shaped instead of cubic or geoid, despite all the technology at their disposal, that should tell you that their claims themselves are not nearly perfect enough to base further claims upon, especially when dealing with such a vague concept as karma. Hmm, i could rage on about that one. It really irritates me.bIn this case, you're presenting a lack of claims . . .

"Not even a spiritual one"
This is an escalation.

The issue of absolute claims has already been covered. So has the one of claims of impossibility, as well as of lack of evidence, particularly for a vague concept. As has the unique qualities of each line of reasoning.

In this case, is spirituality. This one is difficult becauss even from my own side i can't imagine how you would try to legitimise this point. In a largely physical world with physical people with physical senses, predominabtly, spirituality becomes the king of vague concepts. So to use it as you have (aforementioned claims of imposibility) is always gonna be problematic. Unless, of course, you can prove sufficient knowledge of the spiritual realm . . .

"Its just a mindset . . . its not real"
"Just" = nothing more

As soon as you explain an effect, you imply more because effects require reason or desire.
Of course, every known thing has meaning/value to it, connections to greator things, so it's practically, if bot completely, impossible for anything to be just this or that, unless the 'this or that' you describe covers literally any and everything in existence.
Of course, this is also an escalation, because you pronounced another absolute claim, of a limit of quality.
Oh, and speaking of effect. If it is a positive effect, precisely along the lines the concept claims to offer, doesnt that qualify the concept? Wait, could it be you were playing some epic 7D Lunar Chinese Chess moves on us, and this whole time supporting karma instead of bashing it?
Anyway, why would being a mindset, a something, make it "not real"? Are mindsets not things or based on real things/experiences? Especially in the context where karma can be a thing?

" Does not be-efie"
Absolute claims, as noted . . .

In this case, you'd have to have a precise understanding of what youre dealing with plus the capability to know all existence.

That already applies in the physical realm. Imagine for the conceptual and metaphysical . . .

"The stinkiest . . . "
Another absolute claim, but this time of certainty

You'd have to know everything that happens, lest that one thing you don't be some epic counterbalancing event . . .

You'd then need a good enough moral compass to determine what people deserve . . .
Then the logical capability to connect actions with reactions, as per the karmaic mechanic
Finally . . . yeah no, thats it.

This is the "you" part of these discussions. Before you examine any topic, first examine yourself relative to it. How does the topic relate to you, in terms of what you should seek from it? Is the quality of the topic tied to you and your ability to know it? If so, how exactly? The first piece of context in any investigation is not the information, but the one who seeks it out and wields it. Hence we say: "know thyself, conquer thyself, then the world". If you understand the one dealing with the topic, you will not only understand the information they give, but even your ability to refine it will improve.
Otherwise, how have you been? I understand the times are cruel.

No.
Give me proof and I will give you proof you are wrong.
"Proof"

Premises . . .
 

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Do you believe you do good you get good and if you do bad you get bad cosmically and live your life based on this.

If you do believe karma exists do you believe good wins out in the end or not?
Karma is much more than simple do-good-get-good concept.

There are two types of Karma-

Niskama Karma- (work) or activities done without expectations of a favorable result or fruit, and
Sakama Karma- in which work is done with expectations for a favorable outcome.

It's the Nishkam Karma aka selfless or desireless, that is suppose to give you the spiritual liberation. If you are expecting a reward at the end then it may not weigh as you think. It's doing what you can do best, as selflessly as you can without hoping for a reward at then end, so that you have no regrets. There is no place in karma yoga for selfish actions or wrong deeds.

Mind that if you are doing something that's supposed to be for greater good but you are also looking forward to and desire a reward (even if it's not a material reward), you are still not that selfless.

How effectively one performs his karma without expectations, is how much he helps the society and humankind.

Of course desireless karma is a tough goal to reach and hence the concept of reincarnation and the karma account continuing along with the journey of your soul, go hand in hand and is not limited to your physical existence in this birth. At the end it's up to you how you choose to live and what you prefer to believe. It depends on our personal understanding on how we perceive these concepts.
 

Sagebee

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Karma is much more than simple do-good-get-good concept.

There are two types of Karma-

Niskama Karma- (work) or activities done without expectations of a favorable result or fruit, and
Sakama Karma- in which work is done with expectations for a favorable outcome.

It's the Nishkam Karma aka selfless or desireless, that is suppose to give you the spiritual liberation. If you are expecting a reward at the end then it may not weigh as you think. It's doing what you can do best, as selflessly as you can without hoping for a reward at then end, so that you have no regrets. There is no place in karma yoga for selfish actions or wrong deeds.

Mind that if you are doing something that's supposed to be for greater good but you are also looking forward to and desire a reward (even if it's not a material reward), you are still not that selfless.

How effectively one performs his karma without expectations, is how much he helps the society and humankind.

Of course desireless karma is a tough goal to reach and hence the concept of reincarnation and the karma account continuing along with the journey of your soul, go hand in hand and is not limited to your physical existence in this birth. At the end it's up to you how you choose to live and what you prefer to believe. It depends on our personal understanding on how we perceive these concepts.
Thanks for the info but I meant the western use of karma of you getting back what you give.

And that the good you do you will be rewarded for it and the bad you do you will pay for it in some way.

But in the model your speak of is it truly selfless karma if your goal of doing it is to seek liberation?
 

Avani

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Thanks for the info but I meant the western use of karma of you getting back what you give.

And that the good you do you will be rewarded for it and the bad you do you will pay for it in some way.

But in the model your speak of is it truly selfless karma if your goal of doing it is to seek liberation?
It's not right to appropriate a concept from another school of philosophy or religion and reduce it's meaning like that. More so when questioning validity of it. Karma is not an English/Western word. It originates from Sanskrit/Indian Hindu tradition. (Hindu as in umbrella term for India based religions/ Dharmic religions that originate from that culture.)

I already answered the question you raise there: Nishkam Karma means desireless meaning there should not be any expectations of any kind of return, then only it's truly selfless.
 
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