[Discussion] do athiests have proof that god don't exist????..

salamander uchiha

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If it's a holistic book why are you selecting the description of the throne being not literal and not the entirety, and how do we know what this book says is true? from all the scientifically incorrect illiteral information we both know?
God can't be described literally because he tells you there isn't an example of him. Therefore anything is association with god when it comes to dhat (essence) and siffat (attributes/qualities) is taken in line with that.

So the bible is 60 books of allegories and not a literal description?
I'm not a Christian, but when it comes to God yes very likely. Although, some of them are anthromorphs.


Anyway, a brief overview of the belief of God muslims held. Especially some of the famous early ones coming down to today.




This verse mentions the standard used when it comes to interpreting verses about God. It uses the Arabic word mithal (means example). Which is why this translation is a little poor, but it gives an idea. "Not is there an example of him, yet he hears and sees" would be the proper way of translating it. Basically the words used to convey concepts, so finites can grasp them, but God is beyond literal comprehension. Being before the material finite universe (measurable) would mean that. Like we understand the concept of eternity, yet we can't truly comperehend (measure) it, because it's beyond measures.
 
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Demon

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God can't be described literally because he tells you there isn't an example of him. Therefore anything is association with god when it comes to dhat (essence) and siffat (attributes/qualities) is taken in line with that.



I'm not a Christian, but when it comes to God yes very likely. Although, some of them are anthromorphs.


Anyway, a brief overview of the belief of God muslims held. Especially some of the famous early ones coming down to today.




This verse mentions the standard used when it comes to interpreting verses about God. It uses the Arabic word mithal (means example). Which is why this translation is a little poor, but it gives an idea. "Not is there an example of him, yet he hears and sees" would be the proper way of translating it. Basically the words used to convey concepts, so finites can grasp them, but God is beyond literal comprehension. Being before the material finite universe (measurable) would mean that. Like we understand the concept of eternity, yet we can't truly comperehend (measure) it, because it's beyond measures.
hmmmm.....that's a powerful statement.
 

Astrovio

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God can't be described literally because he tells you there isn't an example of him. Therefore anything is association with god when it comes to dhat (essence) and siffat (attributes/qualities) is taken in line with that.
Ok, how do we know then that this illiteral description that looks man made is actually not man made? And is the entire book illiteral? You said it's holistic so is the description of Muhammad the same? Should we take his description being the best of creation as such and look at his actions instead? Like his bizarre *** life and his wars?
 

salamander uchiha

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Ok, how do we then know that this illiteral description that looks man made is actually not man made? And is the entire book illiteral? You said it's holistic so is the description of Muhammad the same? Should we take his description being the best of creation as such and look at his actions instead? Like his bizarre *** life and his wars?
Look here, the Qur'an is in classical Arabic. Jahli arabs used to use a lot of rhetorical devices when they spoke, disccused, argued etc. That's where one needs a solid grounding in these rhetorical devices, grammar and logic etc to understand nuances etc. The book is holistic yes, so must be interpreted as such. However, at times you are given a metric for interpretation, so that is employed. There are layers to it.

As for the hadith many are questionable, and the science of hadith is a complicated science. Scholars argue and debate over it, something may have a sound chain and weak text etc. That is not for the laymen (causes confusion, not ordered, may say one thing ,but mean something else), Salafis (Saudi scholars mainly) jump into it and they are generally retarded. They do a major disservice to it etc. Anyway, this will turn into a whole discussion and I don't have the patience or time to walk you through anything. I don't know where you're from, so I can't recommend somebody in your area to talk to for more indepth discussions. If you want to PM me, I may be able to point you in that direction. That is if you're interested.



hmmmm.....that's a powerful statement.
Yep, translators aren't always accurate which is why I read some of their works and cringe. Things get lost in translation all the time:(
 

Astrovio

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Anyway, this will turn into a whole discussion and I don't have the patience or time to walk you through anything. I don't know where you're from, so I can't recommend somebody in your area to talk to for more indepth discussions. If you want to PM me, I may be able to point you in that direction. That is if you're interested.
I'm from a place in war.
 
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minamoto

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I can say that God does not exist because there is no physical phenomena which supports the existence of a God.

Bold is the evidence that God does not exist.
imagine there is no unvirz at all..there has something to be reamining wich is stronger and unfathomable and allmitghy then teh remaining itself..
 

Rohan

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imagine there is no unvirz at all..there has something to be reamining wich is stronger and unfathomable and allmitghy then teh remaining itself..

Bold is where your confusion lies. The only thing that matters is reality. The reality is the universe. You cannot prove that the universe does not exist. That makes no sense because the universe has been scientifically verified. That said universe has zero evidence which supports the existence of a god.

If you are going to use imagination as a basis to guide your life than I could very well proclaim that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the ultimate entity and is superior than God. Can you prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist?


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minamoto

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Bold is where your confusion lies. The only thing that matters is reality. The reality is the universe. You cannot prove that the universe does not exist. That makes no sense because the universe has been scientifically verified. That said universe has zero evidence which supports the existence of a god.

If you are going to use imagination as a basis to guide your life than I could very well proclaim that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the ultimate entity and is superior than God. Can you prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist?


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that's boll$hit ...even sicence aknoledges imagination as one of main mind's functions...altho what i meant by imagine was LETS SAY..

how did you creat concept of reality???..how did u make that concept of reality and gave it definition??? ..it all happens in mind 1st..through logic and mathematic means...

now think about it mathematically...if you remove everythig what remains???...there remains always a something and that something is called nothing.....THAT IS TEH FUCKING ALLMIGHTY GOD YOU STUPID ATHEIST DENY..and guess what..you are a fake atheist...
 

Rohan

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that's boll$hit ...even sicence aknoledges imagination as one of main mind's functions...altho what i meant by imagine was LETS SAY..

how did you creat concept of reality???..how did u make that concept of reality and gave it definition??? ..it all happens in mind 1st..through logic and mathematic means...

now think about it mathematically...if you remove everythig what remains???...there remains always a something and that something is called nothing.....THAT IS TEH FUCKING ALLMIGHTY GOD YOU STUPID ATHEIST DENY..and guess what..you are a fake atheist...

There is no need to attack me or atheists. The fact that you are attacking the person and not the argument is a sign of defeat. You have lost.

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Imagination only exists in the mind. It cannot come into reality unless it follows the rules of reality. If Imagination was reality then unicorns would exist in our world. The fact is they do not exist.

The concept of reality is formed on an objective basis, not a subjective one. If you are using subjectivity to perceive the world, there is a high chance you will be wrong.

: Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
: Not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Every observation of the universe is done through scientific methods. These methods are objective. Imagination is subjective. Imagination cannot be used as a basis to arrive at the truth of reality. The truth of reality can only be arrived through objective methods.

Your statement is imaginative. Can you nullify the universe? Can anyone do it? The answer is no. The universe has always existed and will continue to exist. Watch the below video to know more.

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I also asked the atheists to respond to your statement. I think these statements will clear your doubts.

Here is where I asked the question:
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These are the answers that you wanted from the atheists.



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"give me proof god does exist"



Score hidden·

You cant prove a negative.
Logical fallacy... he needs evidence god does exist, evidence based belief isnt faith.
Faith is literally the belief without evidence.
Tell him if he requires proof then he has no faith therefore he doesnt actually believe in god either and is an agnostic





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The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim, in this case that a god exists.
"Give me proof that a god could exist. And then, give me proof that your specific god exists".
Or you could claim that they owe you $100,000, and need to give you proof that they don't, and need to pay up.




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It's an attempt to reverse the burden of proof. The party making a claim must provide evidence that their claim is true, if they claim a God exists they own the burden of proof. It's not the unconvinced obligation to prove the theist is wrong, it's the theist who must provide proof they are right.
 

minamoto

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There is no need to attack me or atheists. The fact that you are attacking the person and not the argument is a sign of defeat. You have lost.

You must be registered for see images


Imagination only exists in the mind. It cannot come into reality unless it follows the rules of reality. If Imagination was reality then unicorns would exist in our world. The fact is they do not exist.

The concept of reality is formed on an objective basis, not a subjective one. If you are using subjectivity to perceive the world, there is a high chance you will be wrong.

: Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
: Not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Every observation of the universe is done through scientific methods. These methods are objective. Imagination is subjective. Imagination cannot be used as a basis to arrive at the truth of reality. The truth of reality can only be arrived through objective methods.

Your statement is imaginative. Can you nullify the universe? Can anyone do it? The answer is no. The universe has always existed and will continue to exist. Watch the below video to know more.

You must be registered for see medias

I also asked the atheists to respond to your statement. I think these statements will clear your doubts.

Here is where I asked the question:
You must be registered for see medias
.

These are the answers that you wanted from the atheists.



Score hidden·

"give me proof god does exist"



Score hidden·

You cant prove a negative.
Logical fallacy... he needs evidence god does exist, evidence based belief isnt faith.
Faith is literally the belief without evidence.
Tell him if he requires proof then he has no faith therefore he doesnt actually believe in god either and is an agnostic





Score hidden·

The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim, in this case that a god exists.
"Give me proof that a god could exist. And then, give me proof that your specific god exists".
Or you could claim that they owe you $100,000, and need to give you proof that they don't, and need to pay up.




Score hidden·

It's an attempt to reverse the burden of proof. The party making a claim must provide evidence that their claim is true, if they claim a God exists they own the burden of proof. It's not the unconvinced obligation to prove the theist is wrong, it's the theist who must provide proof they are right.
you didnt answer shit of wut i asked u...instead wut u did is gone through other forumes and asked for help like desperate ...
and when did i fuuckin mention faith....u cant even answer gottamn sinple kestion...and u dare give me dat bollshit wal of text..
 

Rohan

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you didnt answer shit of wut i asked u...instead wut u did is gone through other forumes and asked for help like desperate ...
and when did i fuuckin mention faith....u cant even answer gottamn sinple kestion...and u dare give me dat bollshit wal of text..
You wanted answers from real atheists. I gave you the answers by asking the real athiests. You called me a fake atheist remember? I can understand you rejecting my arguments because you have labeled me as a fake atheist. But why are you rejecting the arguments of the real atheists?

The truth is you cannot counter anything that the real athiests have said. This will remain the truth as long as you read their arguments and bring proper counters or accept their statements.
 

minamoto

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You wanted answers from real atheists. I gave you the answers by asking the real athiests. You called me a fake atheist remember? I can understand you rejecting my arguments because you have labeled me as a fake atheist. But why are you rejecting the arguments of the real atheists?

The truth is you cannot counter anything that the real athiests have said. This will remain the truth as long as you read their arguments and bring proper counters or accept their statements.
when i said fake athiest it wasnt a insult...ok??? ws trying to wake u from ur slunber...

i wanted ur answer not theirs...and ur fake athesit becuz u just copy pasted them without analysing shit...

and yes i won't couter becuz u havn't answered me wut i asked...it ws u who derailed not me..
 

Rohan

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when i said fake athiest it wasnt a insult...ok??? ws trying to wake u from ur slunber...

i wanted ur answer not theirs...and ur fake athesit becuz u just copy pasted them without analysing shit...

and yes i won't couter becuz u havn't answered me wut i asked...it ws u who derailed not me..
You want their answers. Look at your thread title. You have been provided enough proof and you are rejecting it. Read the statements provided properly.

At this point, I am going to stop because you are a lost cause. I am not going to waste my time.
 

minamoto

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You want their answers. Look at your thread title. You have been provided enough proof and you are rejecting it. Read the statements provided properly.

At this point, I am going to stop because you are a lost cause. I am not going to waste my time.
man are you baka or what??? ...indeed u represent one of those ahtiest whome i challenged ....but then u ruined it all when u asked for help...i wanted to hear ur own answer....NOT THEIRS...WHY??? BECUZ I SINPLY ASKED YOU IN COMMENT NOT THEM..

also tobi is uchiha madara and im being serious..can u chanelenge me in naroto tiscussion thread ???..
 
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