DMS Kakashi & BM Minato vs Madara & Hashirama

[DemonicAvenger]

Keeping Kurama from Ps is a terrible idea since a KM clone would be able to release it from the genjutsu.

Not really. Madara would see any clone trying to get near Kurama with Sharingan or Hashirama would sense it. If it leaves the fusion then it immediately gets pasted

 

[TRE MERCER]

If kamui itself fails offensively and defensively then they need to
Besides, kamui won't be protecting Minato either

This is fanfic. Kakashi has been shown to form only 4 at once
So we abide by the manga and say that's his limit. Otherwise I can say that Kyuubi can toss 100 TBBs because lol chakra weapons

How is kamui going to fail offensively and defensively? No defense work against kamui only thing that work is sacrifice and or dodging which they aren't can't do. Kamui will be protecting Minato since him and Kakashi will be in a PS Kurama fuison. So i guess Sasuke can run out of Susanoo arrows? Nope they replenish. Kurama can shoot 100 just not all at once or at the same time. He'll run out of chakra.

L O L
Please get fanfic out of here, I don't have time for that
Where are they teleporting to?
Just the width of SS spans multiple mountains and the hands dwarve mountains, and there are 1000 of them
So they get hit and wrecked

Where is the fanfic? He was cannonly going to snipe the Juubi[

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]. The Juubi is bigger than SS witch means he can snipe SS. No fanfic here just facts. Kakashi warps there fuison out of there range i mean it isn't a hard concept. Or once the battle starts Kakashi warp him and Minato a great distance and while there at this distance Minato goes KM to spread his kunai around then they preform their fusion and fly toward them. Or Kakashi could warp above SS and bladed Bijuudama's nuke it from the skies etc.

Pfft. Fusion won't do jack shit when it's just PS providing defense to minatos offense
Minatos offense is even lower than full kyuubis, let alone PS and SS on top of that

-- their fusion can't stop 12 PS-TBB from landing.
-- their fusion can't stop Chojo from landing
-- their fusion can't tank the onslaught of their attacks

Therefore their fusion gets wrecked

Kamui will be their mainline of offense.

12BD are never landing on something that can warp out the way. Fly out of the way or teleport out of the way so all that is irrelevant.

Chojo isn't landing shit when they won't be close enough for it to do a thing while they can literally fly around a nuke SS from the skies while it's completely defenseless.

It actually can tank anything they throw. Kakashi ps will be im-powered by Rikudo chakra plus the BM Naruto cloak boost which put a standing Susanoo on the same level as BSM Kurama. So Kakashi Ps alone would be able to tank anything SS throws at it. Not like their going to land any of their attacks.

So Kakashi can warp an entire SS when there is zero implication of him being able to do so?
Yeah no. Hashiramas senses the buildup and either blocks his LOs with mokuton of sends a swarm of attacks with Chojo and pulverizes him. With the aid of Madara this is done with ease

Yes he can when a non rikudo Kakashi could warp the Juubi. Kamui build up is non-existent when he warped two Susanoo arrows while being in 3 tomoe when they were shot at him from about 30 feet[

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]. Once again if he covers himself up with mokuton which he can't im just playing along with this logic being used here. They snipe Madara then. Once Madara is out the picture SS gets raped by bladed Bijuudama's from up close.

Minato can only toss 5 at a time
Madaras 12 TBB would overpower that now add chojo and it wuld do it far worse

No stomping Is happening, Kakashi Isn't warping the entire iso Susnaoo without them doing anything and their fusion has zero chance in competing offensively and defensible Against their constructs

Doesn't matter how many bijuudama's Minato can shoot when their mainline of offense is Kamui. SS or Iso Susanoo is getting warped regardless of what your saying. IF SS gets warped. Kakashi and Minato fusion shits on Madara's. If Iso Susanoo gets warped SS gets shat on from a distance via flying Ps throwing bladed Bijuudama's from a distance.
It will clearly be used once their constructs are gone

Lol more like the other way around, limbo ***** slaps Kakashi and shuts his entire defense down:
They can't stomp SS. No chance, and add Madaras PS and they're defeated with ease

This is basically s1 but with a much stronger madara

Limbo is useless since it can't bypass PS. Kakashi susanoo can hit limbo since it has rikudo chakra inside of it as well. SS does get stomped when it got handed by a non Rikudo Ps and Kurama so what do you think a Rikudo ps plus chakra boost would do to it?

 

[TRE MERCER]

Not really. Madara would see any clone trying to get near Kurama with Sharingan or Hashirama would sense it. If it leaves the fusion then it immediately gets pasted

This strategy is still useless since SS or Madara ps won't have any long range which means they won't be able to hit a flying Susanoo. Bladed Bijuudamas would ruin full Kurama or Madara Ps so Madara seperating himself from Kurama is a all around bad idea.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

It actually got manhandled by Kurama, PS sat there and ate it.

This strategy is still useless since SS or Madara ps won't have any long range which means they won't be able to hit a flying Susanoo. Bladed Bijuudamas would ruin full Kurama or Madara Ps so Madara seperating himself from Kurama is a all around bad idea.

Not jumping into this debate yet. I was just addressing the clone.

 

[ARGUS]

How is kamui going to fail offensively and defensively? No defense work against kamui only thing that work is sacrifice and or dodging which they aren't can't do

it fails offensively because all of the warp attempst are either countered by mokuton blocking his LoS or by the other one attacking him on the interval

if fails defensively because FTW completely bypasses its intangbility limit

. Kamui will be protecting Minato since him and Kakashi will be in a PS Kurama fuison. So i guess Sasuke can run out of Susanoo arrows? Nope they replenish. Kurama can shoot 100 just not all at once or at the same time. He'll run out of chakra.

How is kamui protecting minato?
once theyre in PS-Kyuubi, the main thing thats protecting them are their constructs, which get obliterated by the combined output of madara and hashirama.
kakashi himself can phase through but minato would get hit once his avatar is gone, and will be done for

Kakashis kamui shuriken replenishing is irrelevant when to coutner chojo and 12 PS-TBB, he needs to shoot them consecutively, and the max he can do in one succession is 4 if we abide by the manga
and 4 is not enough.

Where is the fanfic? He was cannonly going to snipe the Juubi[

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]. The Juubi is bigger than SS witch means he can snipe SS.

-- Juubi is not bigger than SS
-- He was going to snipe the juubis head, not the whole thing. and could only do so because it was going berserk and was just a mindless beast. if he tries to get hashiraa then he uses the mokuryu around him to block his LoS or sends in 1000 fists of chojo surrounding him in 360 degrees and obliterate his PS

No fanfic here just facts. Kakashi warps there fuison out of there range i mean it isn't a hard concept.

its hard concept because they cant run away from their attacks
madaras PS slash alone covers an entire mountain range worth multiple kilometers
hashirama has 1000 mountain dwarving hands,
yeah its fanfic when it has not been implied in the manga

Or once the battle starts Kakashi warp him and Minato a great distance and while there at this distance Minato goes KM to spread his kunai around then they preform their fusion and fly toward them. Or Kakashi could warp above SS and bladed Bijuudama's nuke it from the skies etc.

What good is gaining distance going to do?
madara will toss 12 PS-TBB and despite the distance they still get caught,
Hashiramas SS would still catch them as well,. so that doesnt help either when his offense is designed for mid/long range battle

kakashi warping multiple things at once is fanfic,
minato cant warp chojo nor can he counter 12 TBB with his 5 weaker ones

Kamui will be their mainline of offense.

12BD are never landing on something that can warp out the way. Fly out of the way or teleport out of the way so all that is irrelevant.

Not going to bother when all youve said so far is that kamui warps them away,
warps them where? out of the battlefield?

flying wont let them counter TBB, hell no
and spreading markings that far without madara./hashirama doing anything is as dumb as it sounds

Chojo isn't landing shit when they won't be close enough for it to do a thing while they can literally fly around a nuke SS from the skies while it's completely defenseless.

Considering the fact that just the height of the fists spans a height that towers over mountains,
and there are 1000 of them, id say that it lands pretty easily

their long range nukes arent doing shit to SS
-- 5 TBB get overpowered by madaras own,
-- PS slashes wont do shit to it, especially not from a far enough distance

It actually can tank anything they throw. Kakashi ps will be im-powered by Rikudo chakra plus the BM Naruto cloak boost which put a standing Susanoo on the same level as BSM Kurama. So Kakashi Ps alone would be able to tank anything SS throws at it. Not like their going to land any of their attacks.

Unfortunately it isnt,
we have already seen sasukes far superior PS suffer an entire side peeling off from an attack nowhere even close to what was formed at madara/hashiramas vote clash

Kakashis PS has a minisucle rikudo boost, and a kyuubi buff wont change much when rikudo chakra would still be the strongest chakra he possesses,
so once chojo lands, it can continously punch PS till it breaks

Yes he can when a non rikudo Kakashi could warp the Juubi.

only its head,
doesnt mean he can warp away the entire SS which is fanfic

Kamui build up is non-existent when he warped two Susanoo arrows while being in 3 tomoe when they were shot at him from about 30 feet[

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].

fanfic again,
if he wants to warp something taht large he needs to knead chakra

kamui has a built up, it not being detected by the far slower MS sasuke holds no merit at all

Once again if he covers himself up with mokuton which he can't im just playing along with this logic being used here. They snipe Madara then. Once Madara is out the picture SS gets raped by bladed Bijuudama's from up close.

kakashi can only loook at one thing at a time.
-- if he tries to warp hashirama then he blocks it with mokuton or madara attacks at that time
-- if he tries to warp madara,then he either attacks with PS or hashiram sends a swarm of chojo to eradicate him,or myojinmoon to pin his defense down

@BOld - L O L
SS getting busted by just 5 continous TBB from Minato is perhaps the dumbest thing i have seen, when Full Kyuubis 12, much larger and much stronger TBB were whats needed and even then chojo still landed on PS,
5 TBB get flat out overpowered and then chojo mops them off

Doesn't matter how many bijuudama's Minato can shoot when their mainline of offense is Kamui

which doesnt work as addressed

. SS or Iso Susanoo is getting warped regardless of what your saying.

why? because you said so?
please when you make an outlandish claim, prove it, dont just say ''its getting warped, regardless of what youre saying''

IF SS gets warped. Kakashi and Minato fusion shits on Madara's. If Iso Susanoo gets warped SS gets shat on from a distance via flying Ps throwing bladed Bijuudama's from a distance.
It will clearly be used once their constructs are gone

How are their fusion shitting on them combined when their firepower is well below theirs?
flying lol PS-TBB from a distance is something madara himself can do, but better since he has more TBB

and that thing one shotting SS is perhaps the dumbest thing in this argument, as addressed above

Limbo is useless since it can't bypass PS

it sure as hell shits on kamui
madaras own PS and SS would eradicate kakashis PS so it doesnt even matter

. Kakashi susanoo can hit limbo since it has rikudo chakra inside of it as well.

it has to be a direct hit from the blade otherwise the shockwave is just a physical attack which wont work as stated
not that madara would even use Limbo if PS is out

SS does get stomped when it got handed by a non Rikudo Ps and Kurama so what do you think a Rikudo ps plus chakra boost would do to it?

the rikudo chakra boost from sasuke doesnt even put his PS above madaras ISO susanoo that much, and sasuke had alot more chakra directly from rikudo on top of the rinnegan buffing his PS even more

kakashis buff is minisucle, and nothing implies that just cause his susanoo is buffed, means that he can take out both SS and PS-Kyuubi at the same time when his defense pre buff would be nowhere even close to madaras PS given hes not a true heir of the sharingan, doesnt have the EMS, nor does he have madaras potent chakra

 

[TRE MERCER]

it fails offensively because all of the warp attempst are either countered by mokuton blocking his LoS or by the other one attacking him on the interval

if fails defensively because FTW completely bypasses its intangbility limit

Except Hashirama can't block his entire buddha so irrelevant claim. Even if he could which he can't he'd just snipe Madara. FTW wouldn't even stop kamui with him being ground based since he could warp himself out of it's range so very moot claim.

How is kamui protecting minato?
once theyre in PS-Kyuubi, the main thing thats protecting them are their constructs, which get obliterated by the combined output of madara and hashirama.
kakashi himself can phase through but minato would get hit once his avatar is gone, and will be done for

Kakashis kamui shuriken replenishing is irrelevant when to coutner chojo and 12 PS-TBB, he needs to shoot them consecutively, and the max he can do in one succession is 4 if we abide by the manga
and 4 is not enough.

The combine output is never landing a hit on a PS Bijuu fusion that can warp fly and teleport unless you can explain this or stop saying nonsense further more SS Chojo only had the power to punch off half of Madara's Ps it never punches through a Rikudo buffed PS complimented by Kurama cloak. Except he can warp the Ps Kurama fusion out of the range of Chojo and Madara bladed Bijuudama's.

-- Juubi is not bigger than SS
-- He was going to snipe the juubis head, not the whole thing. and could only do so because it was going berserk and was just a mindless beast. if he tries to get hashiraa then he uses the mokuryu around him to block his LoS or sends in 1000 fists of chojo surrounding him in 360 degrees and obliterate his PS

its hard concept because they cant run away from their attacks
madaras PS slash alone covers an entire mountain range worth multiple kilometers
hashirama has 1000 mountain dwarving hands,
yeah its fanfic when it has not been implied in the manga

Juubi is bigger than SS but im not going to get into that since that is completely irrelevant to the thread. He was going to snipe the Juubi head? Smh not he said ill make the Juubi Vanish. Which means he was going snipe the entire Juubi not just the head so stop with the assumptions. Further more Kishi put emphasis on that Kakashi was targeting the Mazo head[

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] If infact he was talking about the Juubi's head he would have mentioned it. Wrong Kamui chakra build up time isn't slow enough for him to sense and then tell The wood dragon to attack. He went from 3tomoe to Ms in the time span it took Susanoo arrows to cover 30ft Hashirama isn't going to be reacting that fast further more how would he know Obito is going for the snipe instead of the warp? He wouldn't. No need to run away when he can dodge via flight or warp out of it's aoe of use an even stronger shockwaves at Madara.

What good is gaining distance going to do?
madara will toss 12 PS-TBB and despite the distance they still get caught,
Hashiramas SS would still catch them as well,. so that doesnt help either when his offense is designed for mid/long range battle
kakashi warping multiple things at once is fanfic,
minato cant warp chojo nor can he counter 12 TBB with his 5 weaker ones

Distance is going to mean everything especially since SS can't hit anything out of it's arms reach since it has 0 projectiles. Madara tossing 12 Bladed Bijuudama's are useless when Kakashi Susanoo got from point [

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] to point [

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] within secs. Hashirama SS isn't catch a Rikudo ps flight speed. Then we add the fact their constructs can be warped and teleported. SS isn't catching anything. Once the chakra build up is ready Madara or Hashirama either one is getting warped.

Not going to bother when all youve said so far is that kamui warps them away,
warps them where? out of the battlefield?

flying wont let them counter TBB, hell no
and spreading markings that far without madara./hashirama doing anything is as dumb as it sounds

Kamui warps them away from the incoming attacks. Simple they throw an attack let's assume Kakashi can't dodge it he simply warps their fusion out of the attack Aoe or he could simply warp behide Hashirama and Madara. Flying won't let him counter a TBB? Why not? TBB's are nothing will be in ball form therefor once they miss they'll keep flying. TBB speed is the same as a Susanoo arrow[

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] Kakashi easily dodges that with his Susanoo arrow. RSM Naruto was complimented Kaguya demon rabit on it's speed[

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]. Yet Kakashi Susanoo without even being any where near Sakura managed to save her from a hand that was literally about 15 feet away from her. What can they do? Nothing.

Considering the fact that just the height of the fists spans a height that towers over mountains,
and there are 1000 of them, id say that it lands pretty easily

their long range nukes arent doing shit to SS
-- 5 TBB get overpowered by madaras own,
-- PS slashes wont do shit to it, especially not from a far enough distance

Doesn't matter how many mountains SS hands can extend over warping out of it's range is still possible and it will happen. How come their long range Nukes won't work on SS? SS cannonly got ripped through by a regular Ps blades Rikudo ps blades does the same thing. Madara Iso Susanoo gets sniped so he isn't going to be much of help here.

Unfortunately it isnt,
we have already seen sasukes far superior PS suffer an entire side peeling off from an attack nowhere even close to what was formed at madara/hashiramas vote clash

Kakashis PS has a minisucle rikudo boost, and a kyuubi buff wont change much when rikudo chakra would still be the strongest chakra he possesses,
so once chojo lands, it can continously punch PS till it breaks

Nothing suggest that their vote attacks can even compare to Naruto and Sasuke attack. When Kurama was damaged in that attack and RSM Kurama already proved that it was much more durable than SS since it casually tanked Rikudo Ps blade while Hashirama buddha arms were cut to shit by a regular Ps blade. Except if Chojo hits Kakashi Ps they replicate what Madara did. Also SS chojo failed to completely crush Madara Ps he isn't doing shit to Kakashi's.

only its head,
doesnt mean he can warp away the entire SS which is fanfic

This is completely baseless drop this argument i already completely proved you wrong.

fanfic again,
if he wants to warp something taht large he needs to knead chakra

kamui has a built up, it not being detected by the far slower MS sasuke holds no merit at all

Kamui does have a build up but it doesn't matter because once he goes with huge aoe kamui there is nothing they can do to stop it.

kakashi can only loook at one thing at a time.
-- if he tries to warp hashirama then he blocks it with mokuton or madara attacks at that time
-- if he tries to warp madara,then he either attacks with PS or hashiram sends a swarm of chojo to eradicate him,or myojinmoon to pin his defense down

Why do you keep posting that logic. How is he going to block SS with Mokuton? Shit makes 0 sense. Kamui snipe is faster than any attack Madara Ps can do so irrelevant for him to try to counter attack.

@BOld - L O L
SS getting busted by just 5 continous TBB from Minato is perhaps the dumbest thing i have seen, when Full Kyuubis 12, much larger and much stronger TBB were whats needed and even then chojo still landed on PS,
5 TBB get flat out overpowered and then chojo mops them off

Kakashi Ps alone would wreck SS. There fusion would shit on SS since Kakashi Ps is far superior than Madara Ps. Madara ps cannonly only was half way wrecked against SS chojo Kakashi ps easily tanks that. While Susanoo blade kamui shurikens and Bijuudama's plow SS to the ground.

which doesnt work as addressed

It actually does Hashirama put mokuton in the way makes 0 sense when he can't completely block SS with Mokuton or Madara iso Susanoo.

why? because you said so?
please when you make an outlandish claim, prove it, dont just say ''its getting warped, regardless of what youre saying''

No their getting warped because nothing they can put up will block Kakashi huge kamui aoe. Their structures aren't fast enough to dodge need i say more?

How are their fusion shitting on them combined when their firepower is well below theirs?
flying lol PS-TBB from a distance is something madara himself can do, but better since he has more TBB

and that thing one shotting SS is perhaps the dumbest thing in this argument, as addressed above

How is their fire power above theirs? Rikudo Ps>Madara's. Flash Bijuudama shits on regular Kurama bijuudama.

it sure as hell shits on kamui
madaras own PS and SS would eradicate kakashis PS so it doesnt even matter

Limbo doesn't shit on kamui. But how would Limbo be useful against PS Kurama fusion? It won't so go away with that logic.

it has to be a direct hit from the blade otherwise the shockwave is just a physical attack which wont work as stated
not that madara would even use Limbo if PS is out

Yes it will be a direct hit. It not like Limbo can use projectiles or be used as any sorts of relevance lol.

the rikudo chakra boost from sasuke doesnt even put his PS above madaras ISO susanoo that much, and sasuke had alot more chakra directly from rikudo on top of the rinnegan buffing his PS even more

Based from what exactly? Iso Ps failed to put down SS. While Sasuke Ps carved up CT's the size of asteroids in seconds. Their not comparable.

kakashis buff is minisucle, and nothing implies that just cause his susanoo is buffed, means that he can take out both SS and PS-Kyuubi at the same time when his defense pre buff would be nowhere even close to madaras PS given hes not a true heir of the sharingan, doesnt have the EMS, nor does he have madaras potent chakra

Even a Minuscule buff puts his Ps above the likes of SS so your point? His susanoo doesn't have to take out both SS and Iso susanoo at the same time when he's going to warp one of them and he's going to be getting help from BM Kurama. Not having a real ems or being a real Uchiha means nothing when it's impowered by Rikudo chakra which is far more potent than EMS Madara's.

 

[KidGamer65]

Why is PS smaller than Buddha's main body !?

DMS Kakashi with kuarma chakra supply can warp larger objects than what 1 MS Kakashi with cloak can ,it would be much larger depending on how much chakra Minato can share with Kakashi .

At the very best Minato would be able to share as much as Naruto did with him as Naruto is better than him in said ability. Shinsuusenju sitting down is over 2x taller than the surrounding Mountains. The Juubi is around the same

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as Kitsuchi's Mountain sized jutsu. The one Kakashi was going to warp is more buff, but in terms of overall mass not including height SS is still obviously superior.

No evidence that the small amount of chakra he got is large enough to actually let him go from warping Juubi (and it's unknown how much power he'd have left after doing so) to warping SS, which is more than just a big larger.

Once again this is all completely useless since this is what you believe Manga stated Kakashi was going to warp Juubi. Juubi tails are apart of it's body therefor they are included. Unless you can provide a scan of Kakashi saying he was going to warp the Juubi without it's tails then you have a point until then you don't have a point.


SS is getting sniped if Hashirama is on top of SS then he goes with it. Madara can't do a think at all. Bladed bijuudama meet Kamui shurikens. Kakashi simply warps him and Minato at a good distance once the fight start Minato KM spreads his kunai[

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] He also sends clones to run and spread them out as well. Once Minato goes BM he gives Kakashi a cloak which makes his PS super sized. Then they begin to do the fusion. Once Fused Hashirama nor Madara can touch them due to Minato using ftg to get them out of any sticky situation. Kakashi already warped Hachibi without any build up time[

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]. Minato's BM Kurama avatar is just the same size as Naruto's which is equal to Hachibi in size[

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]. He could cannonly teleport their fusion in addition to Minato teleporting them out of the way via ftg. That makes 2 means of Teleportation Hashirama nor Madara has a chance at stopping them. Once Kamui build up time is ready he snipes Madara or Hashirama constructs. Which ever one is left is then raped by PS Kurama fuison.

I already addressed the first half. "It doesn't matter" isn't an argument or a counter argument. As for the rest:


-4 Kamui Shuriken can't warp 11 Bijuu Dama and hundreds of fist from SS.
-They can't warp far away enough to get out of

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range.
-Bijuu Dama are projectiles so even if they do warp that far they'd still get hit.
-S/T Barrier is useless due to the above fact.
-No evidence Kakashi can warp himself and other avatars when he's using an avatar himself. Not to mention that's a terrible thing to do because that utilizes a lot of chakra, and he only has that small amount of Madara's chakra along with Obito's chakra helping him out here.

A Lot of chakra? Dont oversell it. First off kakashi never got dual yin yang. Second off was a V1 cloak evenly split between several thousand shinobi. Whereas the chakra he got from obito was great enough to give him Perfect susanno. And seeing as how minato can do the same thing naruto did kurama chakra gets stacked on the rikudo.

Uh, no. It wasn't a cloak split between thousands of Shinobi. Where are you getting this from? Naruto split his own chakra among them but that doesn't mean that the cloak itself was split between all of them. The chakra he got from Obito was strong enough to level up his eyes so he could use PS. Anything else is baseless considering Kakashi got that chakra and he got Obito's chakra. The reason why he has the chakra to maintain it is because of Obito's chakra. Not because of a tiny fraction of Sage Power that Obito took from Madara.

Proof, just curious

Read my post to eng nawashi.

the warpzone extends past the arms, and based off how small they got when they made contact with said arms(despite still warping the arm. It's more logical to say its ps sized.According to you its no bigger than Ps head which is illogical given the fact that they start off that big to begin with.

It barely extends past the arms. The arms are nowhere near the size of PS. So there's really nothing more to discuss here. "They are PS sized" doesn't even begin to make sense when we are clearly shown how big they are in comparison to the arms and they are a little bit bigger than said arms when they open the worm hole.

what intel does hashirama have on Kakashi's kamui?he's never seen it in action so how would he know to block los? and ems mads never met obito soo. he snuck a kunai directly in front of Rikudo madara, who only reacted to the sand wall. im sure he can weave 1 past the bladed Bijudama then do the same thing he did to kurama/juubi bijudama. delaying the release of the kamui shuriken, if done correctly the amount of shuriken can be stacked.

their thrown in close proximity of each other. its taking all.

That's a ridiculous comparison. Was Madara sending 11 Bijuu Dama and a thousand fists their way? No. :lol. Madara wasn't even doing anything. He didn't even sneak a Kunai in front of him, he threw it and Madara countered him as soon as he appeared.

But the lack of intel is actually a good point. So if he warps one of them then it'd be GG.

bijudama isn't hitting flying PS and if need be minato changes the trajectory with his own bd or a clone with kakashi puts up the st barrier.

Minato firing his own Bijuu Dama would create an explosion that'd wreck them both, not change the trajectory. S/T Barrier is useless as he has no Kunai outside of range. And based on what are 11 Bijuu Dama that create an explosion half as large as what I already linked in my post to TRE MERCER being dodged? :lol.

alright then instead of using kunai he sets it to the land itself(which is more reliable anyways) , So unless the seal itself is destroyed specifically (which neither madara or hashirama can target since they don't carry chakra) the seals the clone sets up stays. A blind swing isn't hitting a target smaller than the palm of one's hand. Especially when said target is mountain ranges away. Given how fast minato can move, they can't stop the setup. Destroyed land or not.

Which still doesn't matter because Minato actually has to far away enough to be able to set a Kunai, and he can't because once he leaves his Avatars protection Madara rapes it with swings that raze the battlefield. "Given how fast can move" unless Minato is fast enough to completely dodge PS's shockwaves there is no reason to ever mention his speed.

And like DA suggested, PS, Kurama and SS can be separate so that's 3 Mountain Range+ leveling behemoths. Minato is never setting up a marking. Intel is the only reason Hashirama and Madara would probably end up losing this match.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Keeping Kurama from Ps is a terrible idea since a KM clone would be able to release it from the genjutsu.

or kakashi can just drop it in genjutsu himself, or minato can undo the contract...

 

[Eng nawashi]

At the very best Minato would be able to share as much as Naruto did with him as Naruto is better than him in said ability. Shinsuusenju sitting down is over 2x taller than the surrounding Mountains. The Juubi is around the same

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as Kitsuchi's Mountain sized jutsu. The one Kakashi was going to warp is more buff, but in terms of overall mass not including height SS is still obviously superior.

No evidence that the small amount of chakra he got is large enough to actually let him go from warping Juubi (and it's unknown how much power he'd have left after doing so) to warping SS, which is more than just a big larger.

You have no proof that doton sandwich that kitsuchi used on Jiubi isnt bigger than the mountains at vote area .Kuarma was as big as these Mountains and Jiubi is much bigger .

Even if the maximum amount of chakra that Minato can share with Kakashi at a time isn't enough to make him warp SS .then Kakashi can warp it chunck by chunck .he warps a huge part of it ,replenish chakra ,warps another part .

 

[KidGamer65]

You have no proof that doton sandwich that kitsuchi used on Jiubi isnt bigger than the mountains at vote area .Kuarma was as big as these Mountains and Jiubi is much bigger .

Even if the maximum amount of chakra that Minato can share with Kakashi at a time isn't enough to make him warp SS .then Kakashi can warp it chunck by chunck .he warps a huge part of it ,replenish chakra ,warps another part .

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The Mazo is about twice as tall as a Bijuu. That Mountain Sandwich is about as twice as tall as the Mazo. Mountains dwarf Bijuu in size and it's not even close. So there's absolutely no way that Kitsuchi's Mountain Sandwich dwarfs actual Mountains.

Lmao what are you talking about? Kurama was never shown to be as large as any Mountain, and Juubi's main body being much larger than Kurama is based on nothing anyway.

Which isn't going to happen when all 1000 of it's fists are obliterating Kakashi and his Susanoo.


But this is all pointless unless Team 2 is granted intel on Kamui.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Suppose I gave them intel and made Kurama friendly (chakra sharing)

 

[Unorthodox]

Suppose I gave them intel and made Kurama friendly (chakra sharing)

Stfu.....

 

[KidGamer65]

Suppose I gave them intel and made Kurama friendly (chakra sharing)

Intel is enough for them to win, and I have no idea how well Kurama's chakra sharing would affect Madara and Hashirama given their power. But it's just icing on the cake regardless.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Intel is enough for them to win, and I have no idea how well Kurama's chakra sharing would affect Madara and Hashirama given their power. But it's just icing on the cake regardless.

Alright, well go with them having as much intel on them as the theoretical Madara in S3 would have had if he happened in the story.

Axe the Kurama bit.

PS Kamui Raikiri doesn't make the PS intangible here either. Since that would be more logical in the manga imo

 

[TRE MERCER]

-4 Kamui Shuriken can't warp 11 Bijuu Dama and hundreds of fist from SS.
-They can't warp far away enough to get out of

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range.
-Bijuu Dama are projectiles so even if they do warp that far they'd still get hit.
-S/T Barrier is useless due to the above fact.
-No evidence Kakashi can warp himself and other avatars when he's using an avatar himself. Not to mention that's a terrible thing to do because that utilizes a lot of chakra, and he only has that small amount of Madara's chakra along with Obito's chakra helping him out here.

4 Kamui shurikens aren't meant to warp SS hands. Kamui shurikens are Susanoo weapons saying Kakashi will run out is like saying Sasuke can run out of Susanoo arrows so yes he can counter Bladed Bijuudama's with kamui shuriken.

First off all that scan you posted is a combination of Debris 11 TBB's and even if they did have that range Kakashi can still warp out of that distance what don't you get about them being able to warp anywhere they want to?

Wrong when Kakashi can warp them opposite of the direction of the Bijuudama's. Or evade them via flight. No evidence suggest that he can't. He already warped something as big as Hachibi without prep he can easily warp their fusion plus we've seen other Ms techs be used while Susanoo is up so for you to claim he can't use kamui while Susanoo is up is baseless. with the combination of Rikudo chakra and Kurama cloak. Actually his chakra is like an Edo's chakra it's never going to run out since it's Obito spirit inside of him.

 

[KidGamer65]

4 Kamui shurikens aren't meant to warp SS hands. Kamui shurikens are Susanoo weapons saying Kakashi will run out is like saying Sasuke can run out of Susanoo arrows so yes he can counter Bladed Bijuudama's with kamui shuriken.

First off all that scan you posted is a combination of Debris 11 TBB's and even if they did have that range Kakashi can still warp out of that distance what don't you get about them being able to warp anywhere they want to?

Wrong when Kakashi can warp them opposite of the direction of the Bijuudama's. Or evade them via flight. No evidence suggest that he can't. He already warped something as big as Hachibi without prep he can easily warp their fusion plus we've seen other Ms techs be used while Susanoo is up so for you to claim he can't use kamui while Susanoo is up is baseless. with the combination of Rikudo chakra and Kurama cloak. Actually his chakra is like an Edo's chakra it's never going to run out since it's Obito spirit inside of him.

No one said he'll run out, he can only throw 4 at a time, so he'll hit 4 and the rest of the left over Bijuu Dama will kill him. SS will kill him too.

And no, that is not debris. Debris are fragments of rock, metal or whatever that was blown up. :lol The only debris you see are the black spots on the right side of the explosion. The explosion itself is an explosion.

Irrelevant. Him warping Hachibi w/ long range Kamui=/=Him warping his Avatar while he's in it using short range Kamui. Other MS techs aren't Kamui so bringing that argument here doesn't make any sense. I could easily say "other jutsu like Chidori have been used through PS, so Sasuke can use any jutsu he wants through it". :lol Chakra amount or power is irrelevant here.

And no, when his chakra runs out it's a wrap. The last sentence is something you literally just made up.

 

[TRE MERCER]

No one said he'll run out, he can only throw 4 at a time, so he'll hit 4 and the rest of the left over Bijuu Dama will kill him. SS will kill him too.

And no, that is not debris. Debris are fragments of rock, metal or whatever that was blown up. :lol The only debris you see are the black spots on the right side of the explosion. The explosion itself is an explosion.

Once he has a Kyuubi cloak his Kamui shurikens gets super sized and so does their aoe which would be enough to take out all of Madara projectiles. He can opt to dodge them Bladed Bijuudama aren't a problem for Kakashi Ps when it's flying speed is hyped to be above RSM Naruto level. Not really how does Hashirama stop themselves from getting their constructs sniped once Kakashi stores enough chakra? SS is never landing a hit when i already mention that Minato and Kakashi would teleport back and get their distance once the battle starts. That was debris SS arms can't stretch through that range you pointed out and even if it could warping back would always be a counter for SS reach.

Irrelevant. Him warping Hachibi w/ long range Kamui=/=Him warping his Avatar while he's in it using short range Kamui. Other MS techs aren't Kamui so bringing that argument here doesn't make any sense. I could easily say "other jutsu like Chidori have been used through PS, so Sasuke can use any jutsu he wants through it". :lol Chakra amount or power is irrelevant here.

And no, when his chakra runs out it's a wrap. The last sentence is something you literally just made up.

How come it doesn't? Once their fusion happen it would be the same size as Hachibi which we already seen him warp. Bad example since that's using abilities through Susanoo which is completely different than what im talking about. Im referring to the Ms user using their Ms techs inside a Susanoo which was cannonly shown. Obito chakra is never depleting since it literally comes from an outside source. It like how Edo's don't run out of chakra even though their real chakra and soul resides inside the edo papers that's basically what DMS Kakashi is like.

Kakashi body=Edo bodies. Obito soul and chakra=The edo summoned soul and chakra. Same concept here DMS Kakashi chakra pool is limitless like an Edo's.

 

[ARGUS]

Except Hashirama can't block his entire buddha so irrelevant claim.

Except Kkaashi cant warp the entire buddha, so irrelevant
if hes going to warp, then he'll warp hashirama himself, but that gets countered

Even if he could which he can't he'd just snipe Madara.

not without them just standing there
then theres also the issue of chakra, he'll wear himself out in no time if he uses kamui warp this large on top of PS and whatever fanfic scale youre giving him

FTW wouldn't even stop kamui with him being ground based since he could warp himself out of it's range so very moot claim.

Warp himself out of range? its a god damn forest
using kamui itself is bad since he has a limit of intangibility which operates the same way as teleporting i.e moving your body to the other dimension
he has a limti of 5mins, so it gets worse if he goes by that
and leaving the battlefield is an automatic loss by BFR, even if he comes back, its back to phase 1 where kkkashi cant afford to be tangible

The combine output is never landing a hit on a PS Bijuu fusion that can warp fly

madaras PS can also fly as stated by the DB yet that didnt stop SS from beating it
-- lol flight wont let them dodge their attacks
-- lol warp flight is either not happening, or is completely moot since theyre not escaping their AOE and this time will just be defending which is clearly not enough

and teleport unless you can explain this or stop saying nonsense

Minato wont be placing markings outside of their AOE, no chance, especially not without madara/hashirama doing anythign

further more SS Chojo only had the power to punch off half of Madara's Ps it never punches through a Rikudo buffed PS complimented by Kurama cloak.

-- Kyuubi cloak wont increase the power of PS since the rikduo chakra would still be the strongest chakra of kakashi so it stays the same, unless you think that kyuubi chakra > rikudo chakra

-- SS that had its hands busting off from 12 TBB managed to do that,
if kakashis susanoo gets pinned down, SS can continue to punch it till it breaks

-- already explained why lol rikudo buff still wont let kakashi tank chojo that easily, not when even rikduo sasukes PS was damaged by an attack nowhere near madara/hashiramas vote clash

Except he can warp the Ps Kurama fusion out of the range of Chojo and Madara bladed Bijuudama's.

unless yu can explain how these markings are set, this isnt happening
though any explanation would be useless here since its an absurd assumption

Juubi is bigger than SS but im not going to get into that since that is completely irrelevant to the thread.

no its not

He was going to snipe the Juubi head? Smh not he said ill make the Juubi Vanish. Which means he was going snipe the entire Juubi not just the head so stop with the assumptions. Further more Kishi put emphasis on that Kakashi was targeting the Mazo head[

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] If infact he was talking about the Juubi's head he would have mentioned it.

Wait so now kakashi has to say ill make the juubis head vanish? yeah i cant take you seriously anymore
he was aiming at juubis head, he cantt warp the entire thing when with a kyuubi cloak just hachibi was his limit
and juubi >>>>>>> hachibi in size

stop putting my arguments as assumptions when youre the only one here making nonsensical claims

Wrong Kamui chakra build up time isn't slow enough for him to sense and then tell The wood dragon to attack. He went from 3tomoe to Ms in the time span it took Susanoo arrows to cover 30ft Hashirama isn't going to be reacting that fast further more how would he know Obito is going for the snipe instead of the warp? He wouldn't. No need to run away when he can dodge via flight or warp out of it's aoe of use an even stronger shockwaves at Madara.

madara and hashirama are even above bsm naruto/ems sasuke in reactions the latter who reacted and tagged juubito, who is easily faster than kamuis formation and warp speed
hell just minato was able to enter senjutsu, toss a kunai and teleport to it before kakashi could even finish his kamui warp

Distance is going to mean everything especially since SS can't hit anything out of it's arms reach since it has 0 projectiles. Madara tossing 12 Bladed Bijuudama's are useless when Kakashi Susanoo got from point [

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] to point [

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] within secs.

Except SS hands span over multiple mountain ranges so its more than enough
not sure how does the TBB counter even work here when the distance kaakshi covered from susanoo doesnt suggest in any way that he can outrun their blast radius

Hashirama SS isn't catch a Rikudo ps flight speed.

it is.
llol rikduo PS flight speed is nothing special

Then we add the fact their constructs can be warped and teleported. SS isn't catching anything. Once the chakra build up is ready Madara or Hashirama either one is getting warped.

to counter FTG, u need AOE. which madara and hashirama have more than enough of
the lol warp is only happenign in your fantasies

Doesn't matter how many mountains SS hands can extend over warping out of it's range is still possible and it will happen. How come their long range Nukes won't work on SS? SS cannonly got ripped through by a regular Ps blades Rikudo ps blades does the same thing

Because their long range nukes are based on minatos TBB who can only toss 5.
rikduo PS blades are irrelevant when they just coat them up so they cant be tossed
SS would straight up overpower those and eradicate PS-Kyuubi on top of madaras own 12 TBB

. Madara Iso Susanoo gets sniped so he isn't going to be much of help here.

kakashi tries to warp,
madara detects built up
madara swings his PS blade as he gets hit and the warp is cancelled

Nothing suggest that their vote attacks can even compare to Naruto and Sasuke attack. When Kurama was damaged in that attack and RSM Kurama already proved that it was much more durable than SS since it casually tanked Rikudo Ps blade while Hashirama buddha arms were cut to shit by a regular Ps blade. Except if Chojo hits Kakashi Ps they replicate what Madara did. Also SS chojo failed to completely crush Madara Ps he isn't doing shit to Kakashi's.

This is completely baseless drop this argument i already completely proved you wrong.

*_* Lol learn what baseless means
THeir vote attacks are clearly inferior,
naruto and sasukes construct durbaility is irrelevant here since i never mentioned that,

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looking at the mountains its clear that madara and hashiramas attack yielded a greater explosion
whats worse is that madara/hashiramas explosion represents the radius, whilst naruto/sasukes represents the diameter AND the fact that chojo kobetsu formed a crater which became VOTE

if naruto.sasukes constructs were damaged by an explosion smaller than VOTE1 clash, then theyre sufferring greater damages to VOTE1, and kakashi suffers even more damages since his PS is less durable to RSM avatar and sasukes PS

and Lol what? chojo busted PS not even sure what kind of manga youre reading but its not the one im discussing

Kamui does have a build up but it doesn't matter because once he goes with huge aoe kamui there is nothing they can do to stop it.

THey can attack kakashi in that formation time to get rid of his focus and cancel the warp

Why do you keep posting that logic. How is he going to block SS with Mokuton? Shit makes 0 sense. Kamui snipe is faster than any attack Madara Ps can do so irrelevant for him to try to counter attack.

Why are you so fixated on the nonsensical idea of kamui warping the entire SS?
when it nothing but fanfic

Kakashi Ps alone would wreck SS.

lol no it doesnt,
kakaashi tries sending 4 kamui shuriken, who can only counter 4 arms
996 arms then land and continue to punch PS till it shatters

There fusion would shit on SS since Kakashi Ps is far superior than Madara Ps. Madara ps cannonly only was half way wrecked against SS chojo Kakashi ps easily tanks that. While Susanoo blade kamui shurikens and Bijuudama's plow SS to the ground.

Madaras 12 PS TBB >>> Minatos 5 TBB
madaras PS was busted completely so shitty point
susnaoo blade adds no power to TBB nor do 4 kamui shurikens provide sufficient offense to counter 12 TBB and 1000 chojo hands

It actually does Hashirama put mokuton in the way makes 0 sense when he can't completely block SS with Mokuton or Madara iso Susanoo.


No their getting warped because nothing they can put up will block Kakashi huge kamui aoe. Their structures aren't fast enough to dodge need i say more?

already addressed this BS

How is their fire power above theirs? Rikudo Ps>Madara's

sure but not above SS and Kyuubi on top of madaras PS

. Flash Bijuudama shits on regular Kurama bijuudama.

thenn kakashis PS sword can fit to make it tossable so SS will grab it and toss it away
and no, kyuubis 12 TBB >> minatos flash TBB

Limbo doesn't shit on kamui.

considering kamui cant see it nor can it identify it since its from an invisbile world,yeah it shits on it

But how would Limbo be useful against PS Kurama fusion? It won't so go away with that logic.

it wont be used when PS is out

Yes it will be a direct hit. It not like Limbo can use projectiles or be used as any sorts of relevance lol.

kakashi cant see it, so no direct hit, baseless point anyway

Based from what exactly? Iso Ps failed to put down SS. While Sasuke Ps carved up CT's the size of asteroids in seconds. Their not comparable.

those CT were the size of shinju trunk at best
those PS slashes were tanked by RSM avatar with no damages,
VOTE1 clash >> VOTE2 clash >>>> PS slashes
so PS slashes from sasuke dont do much

Even a Minuscule buff puts his Ps above the likes of SS so your point?

proof?

His susanoo doesn't have to take out both SS and Iso susanoo at the same time when he's going to warp one of them and he's going to be getting help from BM Kurama.

already addressed, stop repeating the same thing over and over again

Not having a real ems or being a real Uchiha means nothing when it's impowered by Rikudo chakra which is far more potent than EMS Madara's.

clearly talking about pre buff

 

[Omar19992010]

Hypothetically speaking can't Kakashi Genjutsu wrestle Kurama from Madras due to his eyes being stronger?

 

[TRE MERCER]

..........

What a joke post ill have my reply in like 10mins but you claim Madara ps can fly and yet it was hit by SS LMAO.

1- Madara Ps can't fly.
2- He charged SS like an idiot and that's why he was caught.