Its not just "striking speed", its reflexes and synaptic transmission that cause "fast strikes" , and in naruto, in most cases it goes hand in hand with people that have high shunshin speeds or that are just generally fast... both things are equally important in a fight
Difference between Shunshin and combat speed
- Thread starter Touken
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lol i'm talking very fast speeds here, tobirama, Minato, A etc... the reason tobirama can stick 50 paper bombs all over your body in a second before you even notice it is because of that
who exactly would be those people btw?
Prince Charles
Active member
Naruto x man thats my bad, I accidently posted my post before I was done with it, hold up ill edit it
But minato doesn't have fast striking speed not counting ftg help. Raikage sticking speed is basic sasuke dodged and prepared twice. Minato couldn't strike obito instantly like. Etc etc tobirama even with ftg striking speed is basic, naruto has slow striking speed the list goes on. Only a couple ninja has been shown to kick or punch at blinding speed (64 palms, morning peakock).
I'd already explained the shunshin no jutsu in one of your threads if i remember correctly
The capability to perceive the movement of a user when Shunshin is involved then depends on the speed of movement in question when the body is revitalised in chakra, the distance seperating the shunshin user and the observer as well as it's observation and reactive capacities(if he wants to dodge or counter)
Example1
Sasuke vs Team7
Notice that Yamato was capable to follow Sasuke's shunshin speed(bottom left panel) [
The distance seperating Sasuke and team7 is roughly between 4 or 5m. S = D/T. Greater the distance and smaller the time, greater is the speed. Concurrently, smaller the distance and greater the time, smaller the speed. Just like the speed of someone covering a small distance in the same amount of time as some other covering a greater distance would be smaller
This is basic calculation maths
So if for example, on this picture Sasuke covered a 5m distance in 1s, it would mean his speed is 5m/s. But if the distance between them was 10m instead, it would mean that with a speed of 5m/s, Sasuke would cover the distance in T = D/S = 10/5 = 2seconds. If the distance was 20m, Sasuke with a shunshin speed of 5m/s would cover the distance in T = D/S = 20/5 = 4seconds
And like you can see, with a speed like this one greater the distance and longer the time it takes Sasuke to cover said distance, and longer the time it takes for him to cover and more the time it gives to an opponent to observe him
Sasuke against team7 covered a distance of 5m so fast for Sakura eyes to follow. Yamato could follow it however. It simply means his observation skills/speed and analysis was greater than Sakura's here. Because of this, he had more chances to dodge/counter Sakura's shunshin than her. And since he was capable to follow Sasuke's shunshin from a 5meter distance, greater the distance and easier would it be for him to dodge or counter it no problems
Example2
Sasuke vs Deidara
Like you can see on the picture, the distance was roughly 7m, probably more since Sasuke was inside the crater though. So from this distance like represented on the picture, by revitalising his body temporarily with chakra, he covered the distance so fast that it surprised Deidara("so fast"). But notice that Tobi(who was near Deidara) had no exclammation mark on him, showing he had no trouble following Sasuke's speed(maybe because he already saw greater speeds before lol), to the point he was even fooling around, making as if he was hit by Sasuke
So this is basically how a shunshin movement works
Notice that in the definition of the technique, it says to an observer, it appears as if the user has teleported, but in reality it's not the case. It's just that while using Shunshin the user boast his own body to move at a high-speed movement
The capability to perceive the movement of a user when Shunshin is involved then depends on the speed of movement in question when the body is revitalised in chakra, the distance seperating the shunshin user and the observer as well as it's observation and reactive capacities(if he wants to dodge or counter)
Example1
Sasuke vs Team7
Notice that Yamato was capable to follow Sasuke's shunshin speed(bottom left panel) [
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] noticing the speed of his shunshin(he is fast) [
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] when Sakura didn't(when did he?)[
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]The distance seperating Sasuke and team7 is roughly between 4 or 5m. S = D/T. Greater the distance and smaller the time, greater is the speed. Concurrently, smaller the distance and greater the time, smaller the speed. Just like the speed of someone covering a small distance in the same amount of time as some other covering a greater distance would be smaller
This is basic calculation maths
So if for example, on this picture Sasuke covered a 5m distance in 1s, it would mean his speed is 5m/s. But if the distance between them was 10m instead, it would mean that with a speed of 5m/s, Sasuke would cover the distance in T = D/S = 10/5 = 2seconds. If the distance was 20m, Sasuke with a shunshin speed of 5m/s would cover the distance in T = D/S = 20/5 = 4seconds
And like you can see, with a speed like this one greater the distance and longer the time it takes Sasuke to cover said distance, and longer the time it takes for him to cover and more the time it gives to an opponent to observe him
Sasuke against team7 covered a distance of 5m so fast for Sakura eyes to follow. Yamato could follow it however. It simply means his observation skills/speed and analysis was greater than Sakura's here. Because of this, he had more chances to dodge/counter Sakura's shunshin than her. And since he was capable to follow Sasuke's shunshin from a 5meter distance, greater the distance and easier would it be for him to dodge or counter it no problems
Example2
Sasuke vs Deidara
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Like you can see on the picture, the distance was roughly 7m, probably more since Sasuke was inside the crater though. So from this distance like represented on the picture, by revitalising his body temporarily with chakra, he covered the distance so fast that it surprised Deidara("so fast"). But notice that Tobi(who was near Deidara) had no exclammation mark on him, showing he had no trouble following Sasuke's speed(maybe because he already saw greater speeds before lol), to the point he was even fooling around, making as if he was hit by Sasuke
So this is basically how a shunshin movement works
Because A and naruto didn't get that high up in the charts naturally did they? it was jutsu and chakra enhancements that gave them their super speed. their body isn't trained at all to fit the style..(naruto i Minato hasn't shown fast strikes, but acording to what shee said, he should easily be able to do it.. problem is all he does mostly is ftg and kunai or rasengan
The gates are removing the limits of the body.. gai's nervous system and every single part of his body is operating at over 100% , are we comparing that to ninjas in a normal state?
Hyuugas train for that, I never said it was a neccesary prerequisite...
Ninjas like Sasuke, Itachi, and we can even make an argument for Mifune all have and has displayed enough to sumrise the a statement for the same fast striking or actually have manga scans to back it
@Bogard,
This thread was mainly to prove that if a shinobi is a little faster than another, it doesn't really matter. The deciding factor then becomes striking speed as Shunshin does not cover striking speed.
The speed at which Deidara moves at isn't comparable to the speed at which Sasuke moves at. The same goes for Sakura; Sasuke is much faster.Me said:
This thread was mainly to prove that if a shinobi is a little faster than another, it doesn't really matter. The deciding factor then becomes striking speed as Shunshin does not cover striking speed.
Prince Charles
Active member
@Naruto x man
as I was saying..
Imo Ay has not shown faster striking speed than kimimaro nor lee, and as for guy's statement regarding sasuke copying Lee's taijutsu and etc well Lee is still more skilled in his cqc taijutsu at the end of the day.
^Those scans are pretty self explanatory that showcase kimimaro and lee's striking speed which are far more impressive than what the raikage has shown in terms of striking speed.
Suigestu was able to intercept Ay's punch towards sasuke
I doubt suigestsu would had anticipated the striking speed of kimimaro or lee, in terms of cqc taijutsu striking speed kimimaro and lee take the icing on the cake.
as I was saying..
Imo Ay has not shown faster striking speed than kimimaro nor lee, and as for guy's statement regarding sasuke copying Lee's taijutsu and etc well Lee is still more skilled in his cqc taijutsu at the end of the day.
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^Those scans are pretty self explanatory that showcase kimimaro and lee's striking speed which are far more impressive than what the raikage has shown in terms of striking speed.
Suigestu was able to intercept Ay's punch towards sasuke
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I doubt suigestsu would had anticipated the striking speed of kimimaro or lee, in terms of cqc taijutsu striking speed kimimaro and lee take the icing on the cake.
That list is of ninjas who don't have fast " striking speed"?
Because, Gai, lee and neji all obviously do
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Because its just not their fighting style doesn't mean they can't do it..
If you trained your body to be fast overtime, (without jutsu means) , you would be unconciously training your body to do other things... One, your reflexes etc would have to be onpar with your speed, otherwise you'd be moving too fast to react to opponents.. Minato, tobirama, itachi etc don't have that problem.. Kid kakashi did
As I said, normally it goes hand in hand with speed
You can get it without being fast, that much cannot be denied, Hyuugas are living examples
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But a shinobi's speed doesn't become hard to follow if another shinobi has comparable speed/reflexes. Again, refer back to the scan of Supes and WW in the OP. Supes is faster than WW in raw speed but because she doesn't lag that far behind, she's able to keep up with him and possibly best him. The same can't be said for Bruce because Supes' speed is leagues beyond his speed/reactions.
It was a mixture of people who have fast Shunshin but slower striking speed and vice-versa.
Because they've not been shown to move their hands that quickly when in CQC? It's obvious that it's quicker to make hand seals and throw shuriken than to throw a punch, otherwise we'd see them throwing multiple punches a second.
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Prince Charles
Active member
What? Deidara does has comparable speed, well not shunshin compared to sasuke but regular speed and what not.
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He managed to out manuver team Gai with speed movement and make it to his clay bird.
I agree; i also want to give this one as example:
Lee's databook 1:
speed:4, taijutsu:3,5
Neji's databook 1:
speed: 3, taijutsu: 3,5
Lee had more speed on foot, but Neji's battle style has more striking speed so he owned him in every counter.
Or Haku vs Sasuke:
Haku databook 1:
speed: 4, taijutsu:1
Sasuke databook 1:
speed: 3 taijutsu:2,5
^Sasuke defeated Haku in CQC outside of mirrors due to superior close range abilities, but Haku has better movement speed and shunshin.
Bt the simple analogy sums it up: an atlete is faster than a boxer, but a boxer would beat him in hand to hand.
Lee's databook 1:
speed:4, taijutsu:3,5
Neji's databook 1:
speed: 3, taijutsu: 3,5
Lee had more speed on foot, but Neji's battle style has more striking speed so he owned him in every counter.
Or Haku vs Sasuke:
Haku databook 1:
speed: 4, taijutsu:1
Sasuke databook 1:
speed: 3 taijutsu:2,5
^Sasuke defeated Haku in CQC outside of mirrors due to superior close range abilities, but Haku has better movement speed and shunshin.
Bt the simple analogy sums it up: an atlete is faster than a boxer, but a boxer would beat him in hand to hand.
How is it quicker exactly to throw a shruiken than throw a punch again? Because as far as i'm concerened its mostly the same muscle movements
your hands still have to retract and extend just like a punch, the difference is its not a closed palm , but an open one
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All he really did there was jump, right? No speed movement was actually used since one shinobi can't jump faster than another shinobi.
lol, throwing a punch is clearly different than throwing a knife. When you throw a punch you throw it with much more force than throwing a knife which puts a strain on your muscles, not only that, you have a variety of ways to punch someone. Also, in CQC, you're constantly taking hits, either by getting punched directly or blocking which'd wear you down. Throwing a projectile can't be compared to throwing a punch. If it was similar in anyway, we'd see Itachi throwing punches at light speeds (exaggeration) but obviously, we don't.Owarij said:
You can, because they are throwing kunai and shruiken at each other, how fast do you think the shruiken took to travel through air? 2 mins? 3 mins? don't kid yourself. It takes merely seconds for objects like those to reach a target. Can you quantify hyuugas palm hits?
Sharingan alone didn't make them react quicker than they normally can
Didn't lee already explain the limits of sharingan? Sharingan will help them see the shruiken, but if their body isn't fast enough to REACT, it is completely pointless....Sasuke and Itachi both stalemated in that aspect, and you can see the basic blurred sign for fast arm movement throught the scan
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When in gods name did Itachi have a REASON to throw punches at light speed? If you're throwing a projectile at someone or something , you do it with all the force you can muster.. Keep to the topic, we're talking about how quickly they can strike and move their hands here...whether its a clenched fist, or not , it doesn't matter, 50 light punches in comparison to 50 slightly harder punches wouldn't differ that much or at all..
You have a manga scan of Itachi/Sasuke moving their hands at "blinding" speeds, retracting and extending their arms back at forth, using force to propel the shruiken
what exactly is the argument that they wouldn't be able to do it with punches
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Yet deidara who isn't a cqc fighter nor showed shunshin speed reacted no difficulty to a linear shunshin assault. Any elite ninja can react to shunshin, it isn't hard especially if they have done speed as well. Deidara!!!! At the last second jumped.... Think about that for second... Now think of every ninja faster then diedara...