Delving into the Imaginary (Genjutsu Training)

[Lili-Chwan]

I never liked the first two to be honest. The first one is almost too basic and doesn't suit any of my bios in the slightest, since its a pretty feminine Genjutsu xD. The second is too easily realized, and so wouldn't serve much purpose in a battle except being a slight distraction or a quick way to waste time for your opponent. Most D-Ranks are too easily realized, but if used in the right situation, they could put a significant amount of pressure on your opponent.

As for releasing the third, I would simply inflict a large enough amount of pain to deal with both genjutsu or an A-Rank or above chakra surge (e.g. Nagashi) to release them both at once. This technique is made weaker by the fact that realizing one genjutsu will mean you don't need to take notice of the other in the slightest. Simply use an appropriate release method (high enough ranked to break both simultaneously) and the 2nd Genjutsu will be broken without realization.

Would you do the same had I caught you in the normal D rank False Surroundings?

 

[Negative Knight]

Would you do the same had I caught you in the normal D rank False Surroundings?

Truthfully, I wouldn't. When we're caught in Genjutsus, regardless of the situation, we always god-mod in a slight way, by basing our method of release around the rank of the Genjutsu we're in. Its a waste to break a D-Rank gen with an A-Rank Nagashi, if the current of electricity serves no other purpose. Had I possessed an attack which is an offensive full body surge, then I would be inclined to use the same method since either way my counter will simultaneously release and put pressure on my opponent.

 

[Lili-Chwan]

Truthfully, I wouldn't. When we're caught in Genjutsus, regardless of the situation, we always god-mod in a slight way, by basing our method of release around the rank of the Genjutsu we're in. Its a waste to break a D-Rank gen with an A-Rank Nagashi, if the current of electricity serves no other purpose. Had I possessed an attack which is an offensive full body surge, then I would be inclined to use the same method since either way my counter will simultaneously release and put pressure on my opponent.

That is correct. If I find it convenient, I too wouldn't mind "waste" an higher ranked jutsu if it meant that I would attack my opponent in the process. But if that wasn't the case, there are differences you can watch for that separates a D rank from a C rank, even if the illusions are the same (or similar). What could you point out?

 

[Negative Knight]

That is correct. If I find it convenient, I too wouldn't mind "waste" an higher ranked jutsu if it meant that I would attack my opponent in the process. But if that wasn't the case, there are differences you can watch for that separates a D rank from a C rank, even if the illusions are the same (or similar). What could you point out?

Not including Forbidden Rank techniques, there are five ranks for techniques which seems to directly correspond to the number of senses an illusionary technique can affect. Genjutsus seem to follow the trend of higher ranking techniques affecting more senses but this isn't the case for Double False Surrounding. Instead I think the Genjutsu would either simply be more vivid and that the illusion would pay more attention to finer details. Otherwise, I'm not too sure

 

[Lili-Chwan]

Not including Forbidden Rank techniques, there are five ranks for techniques which seems to directly correspond to the number of senses an illusionary technique can affect. Genjutsus seem to follow the trend of higher ranking techniques affecting more senses but this isn't the case for Double False Surrounding. Instead I think the Genjutsu would either simply be more vivid and that the illusion would pay more attention to finer details. Otherwise, I'm not too sure

Of course, a more powerful genjutsu means that you're able to affect a wider range of illusions. But it's exactly that last part that I wanted to hear. There would be much clearer details, such as a more vivid image of the distant objects. The objects are more detailed around Short range a close-Mid range in the first genjutsu, and the further the objcts are from you, the more blurred they are. Whereas in C rank, you can increase the level of detail from more distant objects (Still not very detail in long long range, but it's significantly better than D rank. And that isn't something that difficult to notice, and would allow you to save more chakra, or at least have a much fuller understanding of what's happening to you.

Should we continue?

 

[Negative Knight]

Of course, a more powerful genjutsu means that you're able to affect a wider range of illusions. But it's exactly that last part that I wanted to hear. There would be much clearer details, such as a more vivid image of the distant objects. The objects are more detailed around Short range a close-Mid range in the first genjutsu, and the further the objcts are from you, the more blurred they are. Whereas in C rank, you can increase the level of detail from more distant objects (Still not very detail in long long range, but it's significantly better than D rank. And that isn't something that difficult to notice, and would allow you to save more chakra, or at least have a much fuller understanding of what's happening to you.

Should we continue?

Ah I see, that makes perfect sense and yes, I'm ready to continue ^^

 

[Lili-Chwan]

Ah I see, that makes perfect sense and yes, I'm ready to continue ^^

Remember that, no matter how well made a genjutsu is, it's not reality, it's always a shade less.

Last batch of Conceal Method Genjutsus:


( Magen: Cho Shinka ) - Demonic Illusion: Butterfly Evolution
Rank: A
Type: Supplementary/Offensive
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 30
Damage Points: 60
Description: The user makes one handseal, placing the opponent in a genjutsu. The user then tosses a large number of explosive tags at the opponent. To the opponent, it looks as if they are countless butterflies. The opponent then believes they are sinking into the ground, in reality making them immobilized; this allows the user to place one final exploding tag on their forehead before detonating all the tags simultaneously.

Requires 1 handseal. It's a Vision and Tactile genjutsu. It's a Semi-Dynamic Genjutsu, as in, the ground will feel real, as a result of the tactile part of the genjutsu, but the butterflies are visual only, and will phase through as normal, if the opponent manages to escape the "ground" without completely disrupting the genjutsu. But even with the constricting effect, it's still a Passive genjutsu. The opponent will be constricted in reality, but it serves as a physical reaction too, the opponent won't lose consciousness. This is because the structure of this genjutsu is, in essence divided by two main reactions, one is a clear Vision-based Conceal Method Genjutsu, where the exploding paper bombs are made to look like butterflies, and another is a Vision/Tactile-based Maim Method, designated to trap and constrict the opponent.

( Kokuangyo no Jutsu ) - Bringer-of-Darkness Technique
Rank: A
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 30
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user makes one handseal, causing the opponent to believe they have been trapped in a world of infinite darkness, where their sense of sight is useless. It is capable of affecting multiple targets within range. However, it does not negate their other senses.

Requires 1 handseal. This one is similar to False Surroundings technique, yet, instead of altering the terrain into another terrain, it merely removes everything. It conceals by creating blindness. As such, there's no point in classifying it as Dynamic/Stagnant, as you can't interact with nothingness. It is a Passive Genjutsu, nonetheless. It takes away their sight, but it won't put them unconscious. Due to a change in description, this is now a pure Vision-based genjutsu, it won't have any effect in other senses. But it's an A rank Vision-based Genjutsu, nullifying it completely. The target can't see their own body, or their own chakra, and needs to rely on other senses in order to perceive the real world.

Now, there's only one missing. I want you to analyze:

( Kori Shinchū no Jutsu ) - Sly Mind Affect Technique
Rank: C
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost:15
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user casts an illusion on the opponent that makes them believe they are travelling in a straight line, when instead they are moving in circles. This is only effective on moving opponents. If the opponent travels in the circle for hours, they will be exhausted.

Exactly as I did the others. How to cast, what senses does it affect, how is it classified, usages, disadvantages, etc

 

[Negative Knight]

To cast this technique, the user simply needs to have visual contact with the opponent. It primarily affects sight, but could also affect touch/sound. I'm not too sure how to classify this technique, but I would say it seems more like a passive illusion to me. Its use mainly lies in close combat fights or when your opponent's fighting style generally involves a lot of movement. If they ever take a straightforward linear dash towards you, this gives rise to the ideal situation for this techniques use. The disadvantages of using this technique are: it places no pressure on the opponent, stand alone, this technique serves only as a time drain, distraction or a way of avoiding a Taijutsu confrontation. When your opponent sees themself running in a straight line but gaining no distance as they do so (they never get closer to the opponent), it makes this technique that much easier to realize. What's the quickest way of realizing this Genjutsu ?

 

[Lili-Chwan]

To cast this technique, the user simply needs to have visual contact with the opponent. It primarily affects sight, but could also affect touch/sound. I'm not too sure how to classify this technique, but I would say it seems more like a passive illusion to me. Its use mainly lies in close combat fights or when your opponent's fighting style generally involves a lot of movement. If they ever take a straightforward linear dash towards you, this gives rise to the ideal situation for this techniques use. The disadvantages of using this technique are: it places no pressure on the opponent, stand alone, this technique serves only as a time drain, distraction or a way of avoiding a Taijutsu confrontation. When your opponent sees themself running in a straight line but gaining no distance as they do so (they never get closer to the opponent), it makes this technique that much easier to realize. What's the quickest way of realizing this Genjutsu ?

Correct on the means of casting. A bit wrong on anything else xD. Okay, so, this is the first Semi-Active technique I'll show you. It distorts the Orientation and Situational Perception of an opponent, and deals with Vision to transition. It works by picking up a large area, at least a couple meters all around the opponent, and locks him inside. Given it's an Active technique, it will allow the target to react a certain way in the illusion, while actually they're being led by it. It's not a total Active technique, as it doesn't completely hinder real-motion, but it's a step. It's a Semi-Dynamic technique, because of a nice little trick.

It does not recreate a reality. What your opponent feels is the actual terrain, he just won't understand he's walking in circles. The genjutsu's confusion will have the opponent walk around in circles, and every time he interacts with the terrain, it will be incorporated in the illusion, because, in essence, it does not deal with creating new structures, but rather conceal the fact that what's being altered is your orientation.

With that being said, it can't be used if your opponent is walking towards you it requires something up to mid range that conceals what's past that. Like a forest, or even if the opponent goes underground. Else the opponent will clearly see a distortion between the area not affected by the genjutsu and the area that is. In the manga, that distortion was hidden by the forest, so they could wander around in circles that the distance wouldn't change. They noticed it because the tower they were looking for, in the distance, never changed place (That's the distortion).

With that being said, though, case you can't find any distortion, you'll have to realize through a certain fog in your brain, signifying that someone is messing up with your head. A genjutsu master would have no problem figuring out after a couple of seconds. The transition is sloppy, and thus, someone fully aware of their surroundings, will quickly notice the trick. (It is a C rank afterall). Just look at the surroundings and you'll find that, as you walk, the images seem to distort. This can't be reached as quickly if you're running low on chakra, or if you're tired, etc. But if it's the opening move, it's really easy to break out of it (sometimes).

And finally, it cannot be used to have you miss the opponent. If he enters in range of the area you're locked in, you can interact with him. Especially if he decides to move out of the area of effect (Again, as small as a couple of meters and as big as Mid range radius of the target), you'll quickly realize you're in a genjutsu (If you see him/her leave). So, if he casts this on you and then throws techniques or taijutsu at you, you can react as normal. Likewise, if you really want to check if you're in a genjutsu, throw yourself out of mid-range xD

Hard to explain this one...

 

[Negative Knight]

I think I grasp what you're getting that, this Genjutsu is a bit too subtle for most to discern realistically. Would it be wise to throw a weapon/object towards my opponent the instant the technique is cast ? Due to my circular motion, it wouldn't come close to them and I would notice this since this Genjutsu only affects my my motion/perception of my own motion.

Otherwise, I have no problems with this technique

Before we move on, can I ask you to explain external illusions and how to counter them ? To my knowledge they can't be broken with chakra surges/Kai, is this true ? By this I mean things like Yard's Svengali Doll and Perfume Release.

 

[Lili-Chwan]

I think I grasp what you're getting that, this Genjutsu is a bit too subtle for most to discern realistically. Would it be wise to throw a weapon/object towards my opponent the instant the technique is cast ? Due to my circular motion, it wouldn't come close to them and I would notice this since this Genjutsu only affects my my motion/perception of my own motion.

Otherwise, I have no problems with this technique

Before we move on, can I ask you to explain external illusions and how to counter them ? To my knowledge they can't be broken with chakra surges/Kai, is this true ? By this I mean things like Yard's Svengali Doll and Perfume Release.

Well, it's still a C rank, so I wouldn't bother all that much. Especially with your rank, But sure. Besides, it's not like you immediately start spinning around as soon as the genjutsu kicks in. And, like I said, as long as your target is in range, you can interact with him normal.


I'm not familiarized with all External Genjutsu, for example, I don't know the technique you're referring to. But as a whole, the genjutsu get their permanency due to the fact that their medium is still present. If you use pain or a chakra kai, the genjutsu is hindered and may even stop for moments, before resuming. That has it's advantages. But to get rid of it completely, you have to counter the actual source. So, the correct answer is to vanish the medium (Clam's Mist, Perfume, etc etc) and then release as normal. A good thing is elemental chakra burst, as they both repel the medium AND release from the genjutsu.

 

[Negative Knight]

Well, it's still a C rank, so I wouldn't bother all that much. Especially with your rank, But sure. Besides, it's not like you immediately start spinning around as soon as the genjutsu kicks in. And, like I said, as long as your target is in range, you can interact with him normal.


I'm not familiarized with all External Genjutsu, for example, I don't know the technique you're referring to. But as a whole, the genjutsu get their permanency due to the fact that their medium is still present. If you use pain or a chakra kai, the genjutsu is hindered and may even stop for moments, before resuming. That has it's advantages. But to get rid of it completely, you have to counter the actual source. So, the correct answer is to vanish the medium (Clam's Mist, Perfume, etc etc) and then release as normal. A good thing is elemental chakra burst, as they both repel the medium AND release from the genjutsu.

I was thinking the same thing, though I haven't acquired any Wind-based ones as of yet. Though I have thought up a technique which continuously rearranges the masks in my body, causing for a continuous surge of chakra, purging all foreign chakra for the technique's duration. Would something like that negate the effects of external genjutsus, since they sort of reach a stalemate ?

and I'm ready to continue

 

[Lili-Chwan]

I was thinking the same thing, though I haven't acquired any Wind-based ones as of yet. Though I have thought up a technique which continuously rearranges the masks in my body, causing for a continuous surge of chakra, purging all foreign chakra for the technique's duration. Would something like that negate the effects of external genjutsus, since they sort of reach a stalemate ?

and I'm ready to continue

Yes, that would work. The reason why normal means don't work is because they're very momentary. A continuous surge of chakra of sufficient rank should work wonders.

And cool.

Okay so, next method is Decoy. In essence, they work similarly to the Conceal method, where the genjutsu creates the jutsu around an existing object or feature, these ones stand on their own. They create illusionary objects, animals, terrains, etc, out of nothing. They can be made to interact with the terrain, but are, in essence, means for you to distract your opponent, or give them something to target, while you're able to go somewhere else, or simply synchronize your attacks with the illusion. Gotcha?

 

[Negative Knight]

Yep, I'm pretty clear on this method

 

[Lili-Chwan]

Yep, I'm pretty clear on this method

( Kasumi Jusha no Jutsu ) - Mist Servant Technique
Rank: D
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost:10
Damage Points: N/A
Description: This illusion creates numerous illusionary clones of the user that appear to emerge from the ground, trees, rocks, etc. If these clones are attacked, they appear to multiply. The user can co-ordinate his attacks with the clones to make it appear as if they are real.

Visual Contact with the enemy (No need for mutual visual contact). This is a Dynamic Genjutsu, you can make the clones react and adapt to whatever the opponent does. it is one side, though, because they can't really interact with the environment. For example, they can appear to be pierced by a kunai, or be pushed by a tree trunk, but the tree trunk or the kunai wont feel any obstacle or hindrance by passing through the illusion (So, it will not bend grass, foliage, etc). But, in addition to the Visual illusion, it does offer a certain Tactile illusion, even if very simplistic. When your opponent touches the illusions, they will dissipate, and your opponent will feel as if mist or liquid escapes through their hands. They can't hurt the opponent. But due to it's dynamism, you can coordinate attacks with them. They will only preform Taijutsu and Taijutsu-based attacks (Free-Form, Projectile Throw, Weapon-play, etc). No Ninjutsu. Other than that, it's a Passive Genjutsu. Basically, your opponent will be aware of everything, and will be able to react normally. He won't be unconscious or tied up, as the illusion unfolds.

( Genjutsu: Jigoku Gouka ) - Illusion Technique: Hell Fire
Rank: C
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 15
Damage Points:N/A
Description: The user casts an illusion where the opponent sees a huge ball of fire descending from the sky and enveloping its target.

Visual Contact with the user (No need for Mutual). It's a Passive and Stagnant Technique. It is Visual and can have some added Sound illusions, but it does not have a Tactile (Or rather, Heat deception). It can me made so realistically that your opponent will think he/she's being burned, but it actually doesn't feel anything (This can be done by describing how fire works and all that, but never stating that that is what the illusion is making them feel xD, again, Freestyle Genjutsu, the manipulation of godmodding users). The structure is simple. Your opponent sees a huge fireball coming down on them. It can be seen as the sun falling down, it can be seen as a huge meteor, it can be seen as a fire jutsu, it can be gigantic, it can be really large, etc etc. You could technically turn the sky ablaze and make it fall (Or at least have it start on a small point and then make the flames grow, making it seem it's big object falling). This is merely a distraction, no damage involved.

( Genjutsu: Kasumi no Jutsu ) - Illusion Technique: Mist Technique
Rank: C
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra cost: 15
Damage points: N/A
Description: The user creates an illusionary clone that charges towards the enemy, jumps, then explodes in a cloud of cherry blossom petals which results in confusing the opponent and obscuring their vision, leaving them open for attack.

Pretty simple technique. It creates am illusionary clone of yourself. It's a Dynamic and Stagnant technique. It does adapt to your opponent, as in, it can be made run a certain way, evade a certain attack etc etc, but it works one-sided, it will not bend grass, it will phase through something it can't avoid, etc etc. It's purely Visual with a simplistic Sound deception (Rustling leaves, footsteps, a poof when the cherry blossoms appear, etc etc). The cherry blossoms will conceal the user and take away his/her opponent's vision.

( Konoha-Ryu: Yanagi ) - Leaf Ninja Art: Willow
Rank: B
Type: Offensive
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 20
Damage points: 35
Description: The user waves their sword back and forth, which when seen by the target locks them in a genjutsu which causes them to hallucinate multiple waving arms. The movement resembles that of a willow tree blowing in the wind. With the enemy off guard, the user is free to cut them down.

Requires visual contact with your sword. It's a very simple Visual illusion, where your true arm is lost in the middle of plenty more arms. It does not really change your arm, it does not disappear, but it will create many other arms so it's difficult to know where the real one is. The damage is done by the sword, not the genjutsu though.

 

[Negative Knight]

A pretty simple set of techniques, where you more or less covered everything I could of asked xD.

No questions on my part

 

[Lili-Chwan]

A pretty simple set of techniques, where you more or less covered everything I could of asked xD.

No questions on my part

More or less, what's missing?

 

[Negative Knight]

Nothing, bad choice of words on my part xD

 

[Lili-Chwan]

Okay... Now we'll move on the Main But before that, one of the clear distintions between this method and the other two is the presence of an actual damage to the genjutsu. How is an illusionary pain different from a physical pain? And, how can a genjutsu produce physical pain?

 

[Negative Knight]

Okay... Now we'll move on the Main But before that, one of the clear distintions between this method and the other two is the presence of an actual damage to the genjutsu. How is an illusionary pain different from a physical pain? And, how can a genjutsu produce physical pain?

Illusionary pain only occurs within the mind whilst physical pain has effects which manifest themselves in reality. The former just makes you experience the sensation of pain without producing injuries/wounds on your body.

I think a genjutsu can produce physical pain in two ways which are:
-Placing an intense amount of stress on the mind (Often known as Demonic Illusions)
-Producing bodily reactions which prove to be harmful e.g. coughing, wheezing, vomiting and etc.