Dammit Hashirama

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I'm sure, there would be some other way to attack the Rinnegan. Since Ashura's chakra is basically having the dna.

Senju/Ashura DNA wouldnt be enough to awaken the rinnegan, but yeah I suppose the "Ootsutsuki Clan" or Relatives of the uchiha clan say "Hyuga" would be a viable candidate to replace the Uchiha as re-incarnations :)
 

xxSAGExx

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@Bold, you mean just like Sasori? Kakuzu? Nagato? Orochimaru? Izuki? Gaara? Kabuto? Kisame? <<<< I just stated Non-uchiha that were potentially worst than Madara when he was alive.

Please, uchiha are pretty much the same as everyone. The fact is the 2 people that caused all this just happened to be from the uchiha bloodline.

- Colonists didn't want taxes
- They caused a coup, aka the american revolution
- which led to death
- Who was bad ? who was good?

- Uchiha wanted to protect the village better <<< Stated to be their number 1 goal
- They see Konoha's government has no stability (stated in the episode, where Fugaku and uchiha are meeting.)
- tried to do a revolution
- all get killed by some power hungry geezer, who should've already been charged for treason against the village
- Fans say Uchiha were fault.

None of those people were alive when Tobirama was nor were most of them in Konoha to be controlled by Tobirama if they were in his time. Kakuza is the only person who was in Tobirama time and that's not a Konoha ninja, the Uchihas were a part of the clan and Tobirama moved them away from the village to limit the danger they caused.

Danzo didn't do anything to stop Oro, he in fact aided him in his experiments as his benefactor. He caused Nagato to become evil, he caused Kabuto to become evil, Gaara was created by the hatred from his village, assassination attempts from his father, losing the only person he thought loved him, being influenced by the 1 tails and thinking it's his mother, he ultimately turned good and worked hard to be forgiven. Kisame was in a village runned by the 4th Mizukage who was being controlled by Obito.

If the Uchihas wanted to protect the village better than why would they want to do a coup which at worst case result in the village being attacked by other villages, and at best cause they get mostly wiped out before any village hears about it (think the Uchihas can fight against Hiruzen, Danzo (who beat Shisui who was an elite like Itachi), Anbu (Hokage's), Root (Danzo's), Hyuuga clan (stated to be Konoha's strongest clan), Nara clan (Shikaku's smarts is very important), Ino's clan (can control bodies or insert their soul in others), Choji's clan, Kiba's clan, Shino's clan, Sarutobi clan?)

Itachi and Shisui both disagreed with what the Uchihas were planning and sought out a more peaceful way so if the Uchihas followed their lead then things may have turned out a lot better and yes Danzo should have been killed off.

Now what are you rambling about? At the founding of Konoha and during Hashirama's reign, the Uchiha was peaceful. It's this crazy bastard Tobirama that distrusted the Uchiha with no justifiable reasons. He was just grasping at straws.

Work hard to do so my ass. They were the one to be treated unfairly at first.

Madara heard Hashirama's and Tobirama's conversation and that's when he decided to change, when he realized that "cooperation is nothing but a silent fight".

Peace amongst the Uchihas didn't last, Tobirama said he saw them fall into hatred when they lost what or who they loved and ran wild, he said this to Sasuke in front of Hashirama who didn't deny it. Tobirama gave the Uchiha's the role of the police force as a sign of trust, the Uchihas saw this as a way for them to be watched over so they tried to start a rebellion . Instead of trying to rebel, they should have worked hard on trying to gain the villager's trust and respect and the council's. If Gaara can make a village that once hated, feared, and seen him as a monster began to trust him enough to make him Kazekage, then why couldn't the Uchihas work hard to gain the respect that they desired?

Tobirama told Hashirama that he can't just make Madara Hokage but that he needs to ask the people what they want and talk to the council, Hashirama was just making decisions like their father did . The Uchihas and villagers all were saying that about Madara as well, if Madara wanted to be seen differently then he should have worked hard to be seen differently like Naruto and Gaara did. If two kids can do it then why can't Madara?
 

BenjerminGaye

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Stay ignorant bruvz.


There is opinion. I disagree.. you agree.. 2 opinions. The mere fact you say there is no opinion.. already forms an opinion.

How would it stop the reincarnation? The chakra would still be there.. potentialy go to another clan, and then uchiha clan starts all over.

You guys tend to treat uchiha like they weren't normal people. -sigh-. No wonder our world is in a petty state.

The reincarnation would stop cuz the line is over. The chakra would have nowhere to go and sit on the sidelines like harugomo.
 

mohdzarif

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Innocents? Based on what? I'm pretty sure the lifestyle of a ninja(bar naruto) involves killing. But that's aside from the matter. Killing off either clan gets the job done but unlike the asura, indra only pops up in uchiha. Asura for reasons unknown pop up in uzumaki's as well. Higher probability of failure(coupled with the fact that both clans have already spread far and wide across the world) uchiha's on the other hand. One location. The lives of one clan doesn't come close to the world's population. Even in their weakest state their mental instability is a problem.


Was it or was it not an uchiha that caused the nine tails incident?

Their lifestyle is irrelevant here, we are all informed of that. But what they do is still somewhat similar to what had happened in the real world. They kill in the name of nationalism.

And that had nothing to do with this Uchiha ordeal. So one person's fault makes an entire group guilty huh?

Uchihas are still humans and should be treated as equals with other humans.
 

KingHashirama

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^^^^^^ reread what I said, those people were far more worst, than Madara, when MADARA was alive.. i never said they were in the same time, apologies for the confusion. However.. Gaara was far more into hatred.. Orochimaru the same... and so on.

Thing with Madara was.. when he was commited to a cause he was loyal. <<< Something some of the people i mentioned didn't have

Senju/Ashura DNA wouldnt be enough to awaken the rinnegan, but yeah I suppose the "Ootsutsuki Clan" or Relatives of the uchiha clan say "Hyuga" would be a viable candidate to replace the Uchiha as re-incarnations :)

It wouldn't. But remember its the chakra of ashura and madara that leads to the rinnegan.. not necessarily the dna of senju + Uchiha.
 

Ψ Veritas Ψ

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^^^^^^ reread what I said, those people were far more worst, than Madara, when MADARA was alive.. i never said they were in the same time, apologies for the confusion. However.. Gaara was far more into hatred.. Orochimaru the same... and so on.

Thing with Madara was.. when he was commited to a cause he was loyal. <<< Something some of the people i mentioned didn't have



It wouldn't. But remember its the chakra of ashura and madara that leads to the rinnegan.. not necessarily the dna of senju + Uchiha.
Well thats the mystery here, we dont know if Senju and Uchiha DNA is a necessary ingredient or Not.
 

SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO

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Everyone dogs Tobirama about how he's the devil and how literally everything bad in NV is his fault.
But here's this.

Quite possibly one of the best ideas ever thought in NV, kill Madara. No Tobi, no evil Akatsuki due to Tobi, no Infinite Tsukuyomi, and no Kaguya.
And Hashirama says "no".

It can't be helped...

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BenjerminGaye

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Their lifestyle is irrelevant here, we are all informed of that. But what they do is still somewhat similar to what had happened in the real world. They kill in the name of nationalism.

And that had nothing to do with this Uchiha ordeal. So one person's fault makes an entire group guilty huh?

Uchihas are still humans and should be treated as equals with other humans.

The first paragraph is true. In all actuality ppl kill for a lot less than nationality. Being"innocent" is just a matter of that period's standards. And during that period they weren't innocent.

Yes. Is that acceptable in today's day and age?
No.
But in nv? Yes.
For example: Sasuke's acts against kumo threatened war between konoha and kumo. Innocents would die for 1.

In the same vein obito's acts against konoha threatened war, started a coup and eventually got them massacred.


When mentally handicapped or people that are insane are kept monitored due to their destructive nature, nobody bats an eye. You don't mind. But when it's done to the uchiha who are destructive and self harming? Problems. Lol
 

mohdzarif

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Peace amongst the Uchihas didn't last, Tobirama said he saw them fall into hatred when they lost what or who they loved and ran wild, he said this to Sasuke in front of Hashirama who didn't deny it. Tobirama gave the Uchiha's the role of the police force as a sign of trust, the Uchihas saw this as a way for them to be watched over so they tried to start a rebellion . Instead of trying to rebel, they should have worked hard on trying to gain the villager's trust and respect and the council's. If Gaara can make a village that once hated, feared, and seen him as a monster began to trust him enough to make him Kazekage, then why couldn't the Uchihas work hard to gain the respect that they desired?

Tobirama told Hashirama that he can't just make Madara Hokage but that he needs to ask the people what they want and talk to the council, Hashirama was just making decisions like their father did . The Uchihas and villagers all were saying that about Madara as well, if Madara wanted to be seen differently then he should have worked hard to be seen differently like Naruto and Gaara did. If two kids can do it then why can't Madara?

Like I already said, it was them who was being treated and misjudged unfairly at first. Tobirama did that to watch over them too, do you understand. He already admitted it in front of Sasuke, he distrusted the Uchiha, "a clan possessed by evil" he said.

Lel it wasn't about being Hokage and even Madara wasn't really interested at first. It was Tobirama's distrust, that Madara expected that the Uchiha would be discriminated.

The original intention of the village was so that people come to understanding all together, but Madara realized that it was not possible. Tobirama's conviction made him realized this. Tobirama was paranoid and made his distrust clouded his judgement.

I'm not saying that it was totally Tobirama's fault that Madara turned to what he was. But he did had his role. Madara really sincerely wanted proper cooperation with Senju but in the end, "cooperation is nothing but a silent fight."
 

xxSAGExx

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False, thats not how it works. If he had killed of Madara, it would stating, that Senju will kill any uchiha who rile up against them also. <<< not a way for a good PEACE treaty. Our president doesn't agree with allying with a country who wants to extend peace, but at the same time is fighting with you.. some people leave the president's side.. however if that president does get assassinated... you can bet your ass ain't gonna be no more peace treaties, without riots.


And they gained all those clans, after the formation of the village.


The village would not happen.. KONOHA would not happen.. some other petty village sure.. but KONOHA.. the village formed by the greatest rivals of that era.. would not happen. Do you think Hashirama didn't look to create the village with other clans? I'm sure he did, problem its not the same.

He killed Madara to protect the ones he loved.. however, that was only after seeing Madara not give a **** about Hashirama's death (even though it was a wood clone).

@Last paragraph... you just made the ssenju and Hashirama dictators...


Surely you know, that even the Senju clan itself wasn't united until Hashirama came into play.



yea sadly, idiots like Madara, Danzo, Raikage, Orochimaru, Nagato , Obito.. and etc just go selfish.

And if you are that naive child, who believes all this still wouldn't have happened.. sorry.. it would've still happened.. and the circumstances would've been a whole lot different. Who is to say, that someone like Sasuke wouldn't have become Madara?

Nope, Madara was the one still wanting to fight and kill Hashirama and the Senjus, all that would be seen is Madara trying to keep the war going while Hashirama wants to stop it. If killing one or a few more people to stop the war and allow peace to arise then killing Madara and the small people with him wouldn't be seen as Hashirama fault but of Madara's who turned down peace treaties more than once.

Difference is that Madara isn't getting assassinated, he is fighting to kill Senju's, ignore all request of peace and died trying to kill someone who wants peace. The village would still happen since Tobirama even said that the people and Uchiha members all say that Hashirama was the Village founder . The Uchihas turned their backs on Madara when he wanted to start war again .

They started to join in the creation of the village, it wasn;t fully created since Madara named it at that point, many Uchiha's already joined the Senjus so that would still happen with or without Madara, only the name would be different. They may not have been their to fight againt Madara's few Uchihas but would Hashirama who had Bijuus really need any help beating Uchihas who aren't on Madara's level who is weaker than Hashirama?

Konoha might not have been but the Village itself and all of it's ideals would still be, the people and Uchiha's recognize Hashirama as the founder, as kids it was mostly Hashirama's ideals. How did my last paragraph make Hashirama and the Senjus dictators? Dictator: N. A person who behaves in a tyrannical manner. n. A ruler who is unconstrained by law. Hashirama wasn't the Uchiha's ruler, he didn't rule them or anything. He tried to make peace, Madara declining and kept trying to kill him getting killed would end with Madara's own action causing his death. Are you calling them a dictator for casting the Uchihas out to the outskirts? The Uchihas running wild was the cause of that, the safety of the village as a whole was more important. All the Uchihas had to do is work hard to show that they can control themselves and gain the villager's and council's trust and respect.

The Senjus were ran by their father and other adults who just told them what to do and just tried to do things their way. Hashirama would have been like that if he made Madara the Hokage, Tobirama told him that he can't just make decisions without asking the people and council what they want. Tobirama was Hashirama's advisor and helped him with choices, we also know that they have to discuss things with the council and fire lord so that's not dictatorship there.
 

mohdzarif

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The first paragraph is true. In all actuality ppl kill for a lot less than nationality. Being"innocent" is just a matter of that period's standards. And during that period they weren't innocent.

Yes. Is that acceptable in today's day and age?
No.
But in nv? Yes.
For example: Sasuke's acts against kumo threatened war between konoha and kumo. Innocents would die for 1.

In the same vein obito's acts against konoha threatened war, started a coup and eventually got them massacred.


When mentally handicapped or people that are insane are kept monitored due to their destructive nature, nobody bats an eye. You don't mind. But when it's done to the uchiha who are destructive and self harming? Problems. Lol

Lel Are you really comparing Uchihas with insane people? Isn't that too much? They never did any harm at all in the village and did their work properly as the Police Force right? And you think that they are some crazy mofos?

And if it wasn't for the poorly misjudgement of them, they won't turn to rebellion.

I get your point, but what's wrong is still wrong. It is just Sasuke's fault who no longer had any affiliation to Konoha, so it was also wrong for Kumo to blame Konoha entirely.
 

Raekwon26

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Some real ignorance in this thread.
 

BenjerminGaye

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Lel Are you really comparing Uchihas with insane people? Isn't that too much? They never did any harm at all in the village and did their work properly as the Police Force right? And you think that they are some crazy mofos?

And if it wasn't for the poorly misjudgement of them, they won't turn to rebellion.

I get your point, but what's wrong is still wrong. It is just Sasuke's fault who no longer had any affiliation to Konoha, so it was also wrong for Kumo to blame Konoha entirely.

No I'm not. Tobirama is, he's the one that quarantined them just like we quarantine mentally handicapped. He saw the signs and symptoms. Just like we do.

There's no misjudgment. An uchiha caused the attack. They're the only ones that can control the nine tails. All roads(even the truth) point to uchiha.

It's only wrong in today's standards. And what's worse is that konoha would have(at least naruto) taken up for sasuke. So even if kumo blamed sasuce specifically konoha wasn't gonna turn him over. It's the third time konoha let their missing nin run free.
 

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In 368 episode he perfect susanoo was weaker compared when he used against the 5 kages
 

Optimistic

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This shit was gonna happen one way or another, if he killed Madara then shit would be worse than it is now.

Cause Hashi left him alive now look at whats going off now, world peace will soon be achieved because Hashi left Madara to live which led up to Naruto gaining power from the sage and finally putting an end to all of this.

He didn't know this would happen but he made the right choice out of the two.
 

xxSAGExx

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Like I already said, it was them who was being treated and misjudged unfairly at first. Tobirama did that to watch over them too, do you understand. He already admitted it in front of Sasuke, he distrusted the Uchiha, "a clan possessed by evil" he said.

Lel it wasn't about being Hokage and even Madara wasn't really interested at first. It was Tobirama's distrust, that Madara expected that the Uchiha would be discriminated.

The original intention of the village was so that people come to understanding all together, but Madara realized that it was not possible. Tobirama's conviction made him realized this. Tobirama was paranoid and made his distrust clouded his judgement.

I'm not saying that it was totally Tobirama's fault that Madara turned to what he was. But he did had his role. Madara really sincerely wanted proper cooperation with Senju but in the end, "cooperation is nothing but a silent fight."

But it wasn't only Tobirama who was worried about them, it was the people as well, Tobirama mentioned the rumor going around about the Uchihas and worried how they may acted . He also said that Hashirama shouldn't make decisions regarding the Village himself but have the people and council have a say as well so if the Uchihas were moved to the outskirts then it's because the people and council deciding to as well. Why would the people and council vote for this? It could be that they also seen Uchihas fall into hatred and run wild as Tobirama told Sasuke he seen many times. Tobirama's distrust stemmed down from growing up fighting them and he seen that they refused to join the peace treaty many times and rather have war.

Hashirama, who is Madara's bestfriend, straight up told him that he looks menacing and Tobirama more stated the blunt obvious things, rude or not and that's why he would say what he things or heard about the Uchihas. Tobirama did say they were a clan possessed by evil and when Sasuke asked him why he said that, Tobirama told him it's because Uchihas have the power to love like no other but when they lose that love, that love turns into a stronger hatred which changes the Uchihas and have them run wild. This is what Tobirama based his decisions to section them off, he believed another Madara would rise since that is how Madara was created, the lost of his brothers. The love doesn't have to be people, it's whatever or whoever they love strongly.

Look at Obito who loved Rin, they weren't together and she shown to like Kakashi a bit more, but that look was enough to turn him into another Madara. What if an Uchiha loved their jacket a lot, it's something passed down from their father, that jacket gets messed up on a mission and the Uchiha goes wild on the enemy which puts them and their team in risk. The Uchihas were viewed how they were mostly because of Madara, people saw how Madara was consumed by Hatred and thought the same would happen to the other Uchihas since there was already rumors going around that the stronger their hate it the stronger their sharingan becomes . If the Uchihas wanted to be viewed differently then they should work on doing just that, Naruto and Gaara did it when people truly hated and feared them; they changed the way they were viewed.
 

HiddenSound

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No. Everyone is now living their dream. Happiness. Gold. You name it and it's there. Madara did all this for humanity's sake. How is it bad for Hashirama letting him live for that?

You're so right. Madara is a hero for being manipulated into doing all of Kaguya's work for her, turning the world into her slave army.

Actually, who even is Kaguya? Madara killed Sasuke and Naruto, Black Zetsu never manipulated Madara, and now the whole world is happy :D
 
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i clicked on your link and ended up rereading up until chapter 640.... thats how carried away i got lol

dont remember the thread so jubbi jin obito solos.
 
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