We can’t use Luffy vs Fujitora, that is just Luffy wank. We all Know Fujitora didn’t want luffy to be hurt or captured. He respects Luffy and knows he is a good man. He let Luffy go and simply did what he did so that no one could say he wasn’t attempting to do his job
So basically what you’re telling me is that everybody else that had a fight against an Admiral the Admiral was serious with????
If what you say is the case then I’m taking out Sabos feat of holding Fujitora back as well because Fuji wasn’t serious with him either.
And then you say it’s Luffy wank but Luffy wasn’t using G4 or even half the arsenal that he now currently has in his possession.
^And he wasn’t serious either mind you, as he was naming all his attacks out loud for Fuji because he didn’t want to fight him cause he said he liked him.
I like how you ignore that though to conveniently swing the argument in your favor, that in itself is bias and flat out wanking in Fuji’s favor.
So basically what you’re telling me is that everybody else that had a fight against an Admiral the Admiral was serious with????
If what you say is the case then I’m taking out Sabos feat of holding Fujitora back as well because Fuji wasn’t serious with him either.
And then you say it’s Luffy wank but Luffy wasn’t using G4 or even half the arsenal that he now currently has in his possession.
^And he wasn’t serious either mind you, as he was naming all his attacks out loud for Fuji because he didn’t want to fight him cause he said he liked him.
I like how you ignore that though to conveniently swing the argument in your favor, that in itself is bias and flat out wanking in Fuji’s favor.
i’m not wanking anyone, i’m simply saying we can’t accurately use that for feats because no one took the situation all that seriously. Tho Luffy would be fair and name his attacks out either way
Garp stated the Marines are unprepared to fight Old WB and Rayleigh. Garp under the impression Rayleigh possess his original strength. Kizaru encounters him and qualifies the statement stating preparation was indeed needed. However, as their battle prolonged Rayleigh confirms he's old and no longer the man he was.
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Who said he is? The emphasis is on the quality of opponent and how they suffered their defeat. Rayleigh stated he couldn't hold of Kizaru AND protect SH from multiple PX and Kuma. As recently as last chapter Luffy couldn't hold of Katakuri and protect SH from Peros. You accused me of exaggeration? Show us where Kizaru wasn't serious on capturing someone he acknowledged as a threat. Let me refresh your memory G4 has 3 variants Boundman, Tankman and Snakeman. Boundman couldn't put down Cracker nor Katakuri. Kong Organ couldn't break a fortified Biscuit Solider. Katakuri beat Luffy senseless and asked him if had something more. Katakuri self inflicted wounds and fought Snakeman on par. By feats Luffy's best modes are Yonko Commander level. Rayleigh is Admiral. For the love of God lets save ourselves the time if you believe Yonko Commanders are competing with Admirals.
Again, you said I was exaggerating. Meanwhile you are fully ignoring that Luffy was rested for THREE DAYS. The same Luffy who informed us he heals quickly in Alabasta and in WCI fought an Emperor, Army and back to back Commanders. Did Luffy not push Kaido to the floor with G3? All this is that Luffy possesses enough strength to push unsuspecting opponents. Hardly a grand revelation considering Marco and Jozu (Yonko Commanders) accomplished the same. If this wasn't enough you want to equate Base Luffy shouting out his attacks as a legitimate fight against an Admiral. You want to talk about an Admiral not trying? Fujitora used Moko blows him apart and informs him he's been entertaining him.
All the more reason a legitimate Admiral level opponent would cave current Luffy's chest open.
Aaaah. This debate, I am not about to start having 2014-8 era arguments on the clear differences between Admirals and Commanders. All that will transpire is me posting panels and discussing statements only to have page upon page. After-which we'll never agree. If the basis of me stating Old Rayleigh > Luffy since one has Admiral portrayal and another Yonko Commander then we can agree to disagree.
Prior to the TS it was all Emperor > Admirals >= Commanders. However, once TWO Admirals received some plot relevance. The goal post was moved from all Admirals to all Admirals except Kuzan and Sakazuki. Admiral is a military position with a set combat requirement. Its a position so rare and crucial -- it took a global conscription to find suitable candidates. Fujitora and Greenbull are Admiral replacements for the same Aoikiji and Akainu (who replaced Sengoku as Fleet Admiral) your rating highly. Kizaru matches all Akainu's feats in MF except tanking Quake hits. He (a) physically restrained WB (b) tanks a direct contact hit (c) dealt significant internal damage -- c570 and c571
Fujitora while holding Dressrosa's rubble got serious for a split instance and sent Luffy flying. He stands there and watches him escape. Once again, from current feats I am picking Rayleigh. If Luffy shows something in 975+ onwards I'll switch.
That’s all got to do with his Prime Strength and his fame with the Roger Pirates. He’s been retired for 20 years and was never found or captured, to them he could have gotten stronger or weaker within that time frame. But that’s why precautions were needed as before disbanding he was already an Admiral+ level threat. He’s the PKs right hand they clearly hold him in high esteem.
Rayleigh is Admiral level according to you.... but yet he’s the only one visibly shown panting in the same panel that Kizaru is in... now how in tf does that work???? Why do you think that is?? So Oda wanted us to believe Old Ray is Admiral level... but yet he’s the only one panting in a panel they both shared and the fight has only really just started???
Man stop it, when has Kizaru ever took any thing serious, it’s his personality to be a laid back, nonchalant care free character. This is the same guy who didn’t even kill the Pre TS SNs when he easily should have been able to with one damn shot. This is the same dude who put his hands up in the air when he saw Beckman as if he had no chance and then later turned around and still went after Luffy. Kizaru isn’t a serious character and has never been serious about anything, he gives his opponents all the credit even though he does little to nothing to stop them, idk how long you been reading this manga but anybody whose been reading this series for a long time knows this.
Your saying that Old Rays best feats are Admiral level as if he accomplished something that the Current Luffy is incapable of replicating. Where’s the proof of this?? Old Ray and Kizaru had a short sword clash, like imagine jumping to conclusions of someone’s strength based off a short skirmish. Oh wait.... y’all OP fans do that shit all the damn time, y’all did that shit with Sabo, Marco, Vista, Jozu, and now ain’t nobody arguing that any of these characters is Admiral level. Gee I wonder why... cause short clashes DO NOT, I REPEAT... DO NOT indicate how strong a character really is. Luffy on the other hand, is going to have a prolonged battle with a YONKO and the WSC and is going to be doing some substantial damage. That’s going to be better than anything Ray has shown at his old age. And even though it hasn’t happened YET. We can infer that he’s capable of doing so right now as he’s already done all the training that he needs, as that was one of the reasons why he was stuck in Udon Prison and trained all his stats, to prepare for the upcoming battle against Kaido.
Luffy was rested for three days and still had bandages on his body, why do you think that is??? Because he wasn’t completely healed after the three days. That battle with Doflamingos was one of the toughest battles he has had yet and even he needed more than three days to completely heal from it. My point still stands on this, still healing from prior injuries, and no G4, or FS(which he didn’t have yet), or Advanced CoA(which he didn’t have yet), no udon prison stat boost(which he didn’t have yet). And still was holding his own with an Admiral and gave an Admiral a bruise and managed to push him back with his most basic G3 attack.
^It’s funny how you can give Ray credit for clashing and panting against Kizaru, who I also already proved is a laid back nonchalant character, but you ignore that Luffy didn’t use G4 when he fought Fujitora and is a lot stronger now than he was then. I also like how you ignore Luffy beating Dragon form Kaidos ass forcing him to go to his more mobile Oni base state, but you were probably one of the same ones riding Odens coat tails for slashing Kaido in that same state, as if that’s not an impressive feat from Luffy.
I’m finna just destroy this whole fucking argument as I’m tired of this shitty ass Luffy downplay. You say one has Admiral level portrayal and the other one has Commander, but yet Marco and Jozu had similar showings against Admirals that Old Ray has and they are division commanders on WBS ship!!!!!!!!!! El ohhhhhhh el man. And to make your argument sound even sillier the one who did the most damage was Jozu a YC2, besides him no one else besides WB himself even made a single Admiral bleed. And he was fighting Aokiji just fine until he got distracted... and Jozu is a YC2 man. So this argument that Yonko Commanders have some huge difference in portrayal to Admirals is BS, has always been BS, and will forever be BS. I’m not saying their equal but your reasonings for Old Ray being admiral level would have to apply to Marco and Jozu as well if we’re going to go from small sample size skirmishes with Admirals.
Akainu and Kizaru are different characters who handle situations different from the other. Akainu isn’t going to let pre TS SNs escape, Kizaru is just lazy asf. They are close in strength that I agree on but it’s the difference in personality that makes Akainu more dangerous than Kizaru. As Akainu isn’t going to waste time killing someone while Kizaru is going to play around.
Where in the manga is it stated that Fujitora was hindered by all the rubble he casually held in the air??? I’ll wait, because the rubble was not stated or even implied to be an issue for him in that fight against Luffy.
I could be here all day going in depth with you and destroying these claims but I’m on my phone and I don’t know how to reply to paragraphs one by one SMH.
Like I said, lots of fanboy bias within OP fans, any feat Luffy has against a Top Tier is chalked up to them not being serious. But if it’s anybody else, OP fans gone hype a character up to sky high for accomplishing the same damn shit.
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^I want to just tear that whole argument down and just make it better but imma just leave it alone. And see what you come up with next...
You really think Luffy beat dragon Kaido’s ass lmao. Kaido was drunk and yet still LET LUFFY hit him just to be disappointed and then blitz and one shot luffy through his CoO realizing Kaido was coming. Luffy did 0 damage to Kaido lmao.
i’m not wanking anyone, i’m simply saying we can’t accurately use that for feats because no one took the situation all that seriously. Tho Luffy would be fair and name his attacks out either way
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Thank you!!
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You really think Luffy beat dragon Kaido’s ass lmao. Kaido was drunk and yet still LET LUFFY hit him just to be disappointed and then blitz and one shot luffy through his CoO realizing Kaido was coming. Luffy did 0 damage to Kaido lmao.
Kaidos eyes were white the entire sequence that Luffy landed hits on him.... but you’re seriously trying to sit here and tell me that it didn’t cause him no harm??? Regardless of whether it did anything significant, he still managed to cause Kaido some trouble which is why his ass got knocked out of the sky and had to revert to his regular humanoid form because the dragon one wasn’t getting the job done.
