[Theory] (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

[NaruSasuRival]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

I made this THEORY based off the some facts already given by the anime / manga & also my views of what I assumed happened between Hagoromo & Hamura. The reason for why I chose the clan being discussed will be in italics. Please give feedback positive or negative....

Kaguya Ôtsutsuki
-Ninja Goddess / Succubus-
ÔTSUTSUKI
She has the Title of "Princess" so there must be a King or Queen in which she came from. I don't know of any clan older than Ôtsutsuki so i'm placing her as it's ancestor until someone older is revealed.

Hagoromo Ôtsutsuki
-Fûinjutsu User-
UZUMAKI
Hagoromo was a master of sealing techniques, he also possessed multiple treasures that he used to perform these said sealing techniques. Uzumaki are renowned for their fûinjutsu, literally held as the best fûinjutsu users.

Hamura Ôtsutsuki
-Byakugan User-
HYÛGA
Byakugan is solely used by Hyûga. Not really much to add on this one.

Asura Ôtsutsuki
-Body Life Force-
SENJU
We all already know Asura is the ancestor of Senju, his life force received from Hagoromo was passed down to Senju.

Indra Ôtsutsuki
-Sharingan User-
UCHIHA
Same can be said for Indra, who supposedly received his dôjutsu from Hagoromo aswell passing down to Uchiha

Hagoromo & Hamura Each Have A Son

It would make more sense in a way if Indra was indeed the son of Hamura, seeing as Byakugan is actually the dôjutsu used by Kaguya & Hamura before Indra was even thought of meaning it came before Sharingan. Sharingan is just a subsidiary of the true Rinnegan, the red one with rings & tomoes. Asura being the son of Hagoromo already made sense because Hagoromo sealed all the bijû in himself meaning he had great life force to be able to hold so much chakra & not die of an "overload".

But the fact that Hagoromo also has Rinnegan destroys the "each son had a son" theory.... Unless Hagoromo pulled a Madara & took the power of his brother to make himself stronger. In this case I'll say Hagoromo wasn't born with a dôjutsu just Great Life Force, he took Hamura's Byakugan somehow for whatever reason. The result was his Great Life Force fusing with Byakugan, giving him Rinnegan. Remember Byakugan came before Sharingan anyway, so Great Life Force + Byakugan = Rinnegan is probable seeing as Sharingan + Great Life Force = Rinnegan.

I know many will say "wouldn't that make Hagoromo the ancestor of the Uchiha too". But Hagoromo was never shown having Sharingan or Byakugan just Rinnegan. Isn't it funny how Hamura just only is shown having Byakugan but Hagoromo has the Rinnegan & the True Rinnegan both activated in the panel the two standing side by side, something aint adding up.

In Conclusion:
Hagoromo is the Uzumaki's ancestor
Hamura the Hyûga's
Asura the Senju's
Indra the Uchiha's
Indra is actually Hamura's son
Hagoromo obtained Rinnegan from Hamura

This is just my theory though....​

I have tried to make the exact same thread, but could not solve the puzzle of Ashura chakra + Indra chakra = Hagoromo chakra. This kind of make the theory weak. However, it is still plausible, and I actually think Indra is Hamura's son.

So how could Ashura + Indra give Hagoromo's chakra? There are few possibilities:

(1) Hagoromo unlocked Rinnegan after he mixed his chakra with Hamura's to seal their mother.
(2) Another possibility is that Hagoromo unlocked Rinnegan due to Juubi chakra
(3) Another reason could be sage mode to its perfect level.

Reason (2) is the most possible since Juubi eyes and his chakra should have the essence of Rinnegan. Also, if we look at Naruto's cloak behind him after meeting Hagoromo, we can see that the Rinnegan Symbol is behind it. This means that Rinnegan is part of the power that is inside Naruto ( well I am aware that many will bash this, but I don't care)

Reason (3) is also due to the fact that the marking on Naruto's cloak is referred to as Senjutsu of the six path by Madara.


In any case, I don't trust any character anymore for the following reasons:

(1) BZ is a manipulator, and he was trying to convince Sasuke and Naruto to abandon their goal. We can see that by Naruto listening to him for a while until he got to the conclusion, then get pissed off. BZ could be lying to meet his goal.

(2) Hagoromo was trying to avoid a new conflict between Naruto and Sasuke. He could have told a story that is incomplete, or one whose main goal is to create peace and avoid the mistake he made in the past.

A Question yet to solve: Why Nagato of the Uzumaki to wield full Rinnegan?​

 

[valandil988]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

No because Hagaromo's descendants ARE Ashura and Indra ergo he can't be the ancestor of the Uzumaki. One of Hamura's children is likely the origin of the Uzumaki.

 

[Broken Shinju]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

The rinnegan and sharingan are different stages of the same eye, while the byakugan exists independently. It has also been explicitly stated on numerous occasions that Indra and Ashura are Hagoromos children and proven by the fact that the combination of both their powers unlocks Hagoromos.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

The rinnegan and sharingan are different stages of the same eye, while the byakugan exists independently. It has also been explicitly stated on numerous occasions that Indra and Ashura are Hagoromos children and proven by the fact that the combination of both their powers unlocks Hagoromos.

This is one side argument. Why Kaguya referred to Naruto and Sasuke's power as Hagoromo's and Hamura's. What if Hagoromo got Hamura's power somehow? That would be exactly what happen when Ashura and Indra mix their chakra.

Now, given that Hagoromo was Juubi+Kaguya's Jinchuriki, he could have obtained the Rinnegan from there as well. Given that all Hagoromo and Hamura's power came from their mother and Juubi, the same process would hold.

 

[xXRolex]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

verry good but where is madara hiding in this scenario

 

[Broken Shinju]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

She did mistake Naruto & Sasuke for her sons at first glance, but after further analysis she realised that it was her grandsons instead. In the last chapter we also saw Hagoromo training his sons before he and Hamura fought the Juubi. But, I do think that the crescent moon hand symbol first belonged to Hamura and that was the source of Kaguya's initial response.

 

[0moi]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

No because Hagaromo's descendants ARE Ashura and Indra ergo he can't be the ancestor of the Uzumaki. One of Hamura's children is likely the origin of the Uzumaki.

Hamura possessed a dôjutsu, Uzumaki don't have one, no real connection...

 

[beast7960]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

So Indra is Hamura's child, so why did he inherit the sharingan instead of the byakugan? Nope, nope nope.

 

[0moi]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

So Indra is Hamura's child, so why did he inherit the sharingan instead of the byakugan? Nope, nope nope.

So if he was Hagoromo's son why didn't he inherit the Rinnegan? Nope nope nope lol
Actually I believe the Byakugan Indra would've inherited became something different maybe it was from Ôtsutsuki blood mixing with whoever Indra's mother was or maybe his emotions played a major part in why he has Sharingan instead. Maybe the Curse of Hatred didn't start with Indra, maybe it started with Hamura....

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

Good thread i had a lot of the same ideas after reading the last chap. This is entirely possible I also believe Hamura had a son and it was most likely Indra REPPED

 

[anonymityIx]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

Hagoromo calls the power his. Perhaps he is much like Kaguya who calls a stolen power hers. Perhaps when Hagoromo refers to Indra and Ashura's chakra combining to become his he means after he took the power from his brother. Maybe Indra was his adopted son but in reality his nephew. He favored his real son over Indra and jealousy arose. If the Sharingan did come from the byakugan maybe it did come from Hamura- Indra who knows. Gotta wait for the whole story

 

[Seventh Sama]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

I disagree but good try.

 

[0moi]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

Hagoromo calls the power his. Perhaps he is much like Kaguya who calls a stolen power hers. Perhaps when Hagoromo refers to Indra and Ashura's chakra combining to become his he means after he took the power from his brother. Maybe Indra was his adopted son but in reality his nephew. He favored his real son over Indra and jealousy arose. If the Sharingan did come from the byakugan maybe it did come from Hamura- Indra who knows. Gotta wait for the whole story

My thoughts exactly. Hagoromo most likely thought Asura had the right idea for Peace, with love. But Indra probably thought "....there he goes taking Asura's side again". Strengthening the Curse of Hatred he inherited from his real father, Hamura. In actuality Hagoromo loved Asura & Indra equally but Indra couldn't see past the envy....

 

[0moi]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

I disagree but good try.

Care to enlighten me on why you disagree?

 

[Seventh Sama]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

So if he was Hagoromo's son why didn't he inherit the Rinnegan? Nope nope nope lol
Actually I believe the Byakugan Indra would've inherited became something different maybe it was from Ôtsutsuki blood mixing with whoever Indra's mother was or maybe his emotions played a major part in why he has Sharingan instead. Maybe the Curse of Hatred didn't start with Indra, maybe it started with Hamura....

:| Indra doesn't have rinnegan because he doesn't posses ashuras chakra.....

 

[0moi]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

:| Indra doesn't have rinnegan because he doesn't posses ashuras chakra.....

So explain Hamura not having Rinnegan?

 

[Seventh Sama]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

So explain Hamura not having Rinnegan?

He inherited his moms byakugan, I'm not sure about hagoromo, BZ said he awakened the rinnegan meaning he had sharingan or something before awakening it...

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

:| Indra doesn't have rinnegan because he doesn't posses ashuras chakra.....

The point he was making was that his father (SO6P) having the Rinnegan doesnt guarantee the child any certain dojutsu. Asura has no dojutsu and hes hagos son.

Side note...
Also early in the manga it was said sharingans origins lie in the byakugan. It would make sense if Indra was actually Hamuras as it would be consistent with that.

We still know very little about Hamura, its still likely Indra was really Hagoromo's but the idea of him being Hamuras has some convincing evidence and it very well could be true.

 

[0moi]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

He inherited his moms byakugan, I'm not sure about hagoromo, BZ said he awakened the rinnegan meaning he had sharingan or something before awakening it...

Black Zetsu can not be trusted by his words at the moment, he'll say whatever he needs to say to pursue his goals. I bet he's even lying about being Kaguya's son.

 

[Seventh Sama]

Re: (CONTAINS SPOILERS) The Real Clan Ancestors Of The Hyûga Uzumaki Uchiha & Senju

Black Zetsu can not be trusted by his words at the moment, he'll say whatever he needs to say to pursue his goals. I bet he's even lying about being Kaguya's son.

Why would he lie about hagoromo awakening the rinnegan? He's right only madara and hagoromo are the ones who ever acquired it therefore his statement still stands.

The point he was making was that his father (SO6P) having the Rinnegan doesnt guarantee the child any certain dojutsu. Asura has no dojutsu and hes hagos son.

Side note...
Also early in the manga it was said sharingans origins lie in the byakugan. It would make sense if Indra was actually Hamuras as it would be consistent with that.

We still know very little about Hamura, its still likely Indra was really Hagoromo's but the idea of him being Hamuras has some convincing evidence and it very well could be true.

Half of his power split between his sons, like presumably like in kaguya's case. one of her sons has her byakugan while the other has the rinnegan/sharingan.