Oh. I thought meant in today's age and I was confused. There has been some sketchy stuff thats been around in the past having to do with these things but America is sketchy period. It's a sketchy place lol
Towards your note there, I agree with your post in its entirety but I believe you are misinformed. LGBT groups are not persecuted in America at all. They have gathering, parades, they have an entire month dedicated to them, so on and so forth. No one in this country is persecuted for anything. Black slaves were persecuted in America and thats as far as that goes. People in the LGBTQ+ community have freedom like anyone else. If anything its the opposite. They're allowed to marry, people get fired from jobs due to "hate speech" used against certain groups, etc. They are far from persecuted.
You're horribly misguided. Persecution isn't just the extremes of slavery. Persecution is hostility or ill-treatment directed toward a particular individual or group so as to separate them from other individuals or groups.
Conservatives constantly pushing to make it illegal to give transgender people the affirming care they need is persecution because it's targeted towards the trans community; you don't see lawmakers pushing to restrict treatment on the basis of being cisgender.
Homosexuals are persecuted because conservatives push for laws that would restrict their rights to marriage; you don't see laws being pushed that are targeted toward heterosexuals.
Women are persecuted because law makers push for laws that aim to restrict their bodily and sexual autonomy; you don't see laws pushing for male sexual and bodily autonomy to be retracted.
Racial minorities are persecuted because laws and systemic institutions in the past - such as segregation, Jim Crow and slavery - were implemented to make sure racial minorities have obstacles at building generational wealth and enriching their communities. Present systemic biases, such as gerrymandering or rejecting qualified job applicants with "ghetto" names as well as the rising cost of living and rising financial barriers to education, are also present to ensure that there remains an economic gap along racial lines.
Minorities are targeted more by police, as we can observe from statistics that have shown us that white people commit crimes like drug use at the same rate as other racial groups, but are arrested, prosecuted and convicted at a lower rate for those same crimes.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
There's a lot of people who don't agree with them pushing their beliefs onto children and what have you but thats less persecution and more of what parents are allowed to pick what is and isnt around THEIR children. They're not a snuffed out minority or anything. Youre allowed to be gay and proud here. And there is nothing wrong with that but yeah saying theyre persecuted here is inaccurate.
Except queer people aren't forcing their beliefs on children. Queer people are literally asking to simply exist the same way cishet people do. That includes keep sexuality in environments where it's actually appropriate. The panic that queer people are exposing children to sexuality is no more real or persistent than cishet people exposing children to sexuality. In fact, the vast majority of pedophiles are actually cisgender white men. If you're genuinely worried about children being exposed to sexuality before it's appropriate, then your sights would be set on them if you weren't transphobic or mislead by transphobic misinformation and rhetoric.
When it comes to children, queer activism just pushes to acknowledge that a lot of queer people begin to identify themselves as children. If you actually took the time to listen to queer people talk about their experiences, you'd see that a vast majority of them understand their experience is happening even as children, they just lack the faculties to fully contextualize and understand these experiences.
So queer people encourage for their to be professional avenues for children who may be having queer tendencies to have a healthy and productive environment for that to be evaluated. As I had to correct @Avani /Tsuchi on earlier, that includes extensive medical and psychiatric monitoring for children as they do with adults who are beginning to realize they may be queer/trans.
The way you talk about it shows you've bought into the false rhetoric that the queer community are trying to make children queer, and that's never been the case because you can't make[/] people queer in the first place.
I read what you said and disagree with almost if not all of it based on facts and objective morality, statistics, etc. I've argued with people like you who think like you at least a million times. It gets tiring after a point.
At some point I kinda drop it. I personally want whats best for humanity. Thats it. Im not going to go in circles pulling stats on the thousandth anime forum I've been on just to get called fascist yada yada by someone's who emotions run higher than mine on the topic. None of this affects me.
You want a real dose of reality? Politics is bull and they don't care about you, they never will, nothing will change unless it puts money in pockets, you still have to wake up and do the same thing every day. You life hasn't changed. Life is miserable and we are all going to die and nothing you tell me can change that or change anything you posted about towards me. All this energy put into typing means naught.
Im just tired. Most people are if you havent figured it out yet. Gee wonder why.
My sister is transgender, she transitioned as an adult. People can and do persecute and discriminate against trans persons all the time in the USA, even if there are laws on the books protecting them officially.
You have to realize that people skirt the laws all the time.
Let's use a neutral example that is not controversial, for an example.
Please look up the article "
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" as an example. Wage theft is the single biggest property crime, outpacing all other forms of property crime combined.
This is done in a widespread systematic manner, because employers steal tips, misreport earnings, refuse to pay overtime, hire undocumented workers and pay them under the table, cancel earned vacation days, and more.
These are all illegal behaviors, despite laws theoretically protecting workers. The worker needs to hire a lawyer and spend years fighting their own employer, often, only to get fired and needing to pay for food and rent, living paycheck to paycheck.
I know of which I speak, it happened to me throughout my adult life in the United States, my employer was a franchisee of a major Pizza chain, one of the top 3 brands. My employer systematically stole from me and other workers for years.
Fighting it would have cost me my job and hiring a lawyer wouldn't have paid my bills while I was unemployed.
That is for something as universally accepted as being paid for your work.
I am afraid the situation is far worse for trans persons, who are overwhelmingly discriminated against in the workplace, in getting loans, in having marital rights and family visitation, in adopting children, and so forth. And they are also usually victims of sexual crimes, not the perpetrators, which is the misconception.
Similar to how the mentally ill or the mentally challenged are usually the victims of crimes. Like the elderly in nursing homes.
Predators prey on those who are the most vulnerable. There are few groups in the United States with fewer allies than transgender persons. If you poll an average room, half the people in it or more will deny that they are even a valid form of gender identity, and think very sickening thoughts about these people, always assuming the worst.
It is a form of bigotry and hatred. And it is not something that should occur to innocent people, but it does, just like the elderly and the mentally ill get abused all the time, targeted for crimes. Just like the mentally challenged are often a victim of crimes.
If a group of persons cannot defend themselves and are constantly surrounded by enemies who want to hurt them, they are disproportionately the victim of crimes.
Businesses refuse to serve them, churches and political hate groups across the nation routinely foment hate and violence against them and condemn them for existing at all, citing imagined priest-given "godly" commands to eradicate these people for violating the Bible, when
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all the time, proving that this is just another aspect of nature, and therefore cannot be ungodly. But don't tell certain religious groups this, because they will be offended that you're visibly correct about the natural world their god must have created.
If a god makes people this way, it's not against god. Simple.
Doctors and medical experts and scientists and psychologists and other learned experts have been aware a small minority of the population are born intersex for a very long time. It's always happened, it just isn't talked about, because if you talk about it, the person often gets murdered or harmed to the point of self harm.
They are also aware that gender and *** are both on a spectrum, which is why you get ambiguous anatomical parts, persons born with both XX and XY chromosomes, persons who are chimeras, persons with other chromosomal intersex characteristics such as these.
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If there is a blending of the genders anatomically, primary sexual characteristic and secondary ones, as well as at the level of DNA, it obviously makes sense that gender expression, gender identity, and also, maleness and femaleness are also on a spectrum when it comes to our minds, and our belief in gender itself.
Because it isn't strictly binary on the chemical level of our DNA, and it isn't strictly binary on the level of our physical anatomy, for example, women with gonads that produce testosterone, or persons with both sets of anatomical parts, or persons with halfway anatomy with a larger outer organ but still containing a non functional birth canal, etc, unable to produce offspring either way.
Because that is how we are made physically, it also follows that persons can feel on the spectrum of gender identity in their minds, psychologies.
It also matches our attraction being on a spectrum, for example, there are more orientations than merely gay or straight. People are often bi and lean a certain way, or pan, and lean a certain way, and just are attracted to persons of varying genders regardless.
This is also very true in nature. Not just the animal world, where sexual preference is also on a spectrum, but the binary breaks down even further when it comes to plants, which are often hermaphroditic and self pollinate, and species of funguses which have technically thousands of different *** genders, most are compatible with most others, but some are chemically incompatible with one another.
All of this, educated people are aware of, and those facts run contrary to the narrative that there are only two genders.
However, because the idea of two genders is very often a personal religious belief, one that someone is afraid of questioning, not allowed to question, can be condemned, or excommunicated for questioning, they often feel the need to repeat and defend the ignorance and bigotry in public spaces.
Repeating the obvious falsehood that there are only 2 genders, only two sexes, and only 1 valid sexual orientation.
That is a form of supremacist ideology, the idea that people are valid only if they conform with the configuration deemed acceptable.
This kind of supremacist ideology has been found throughout history to persecute people of color, people of varying religions, or none, people who are born with dwarfism or gigantism, people with mental illnesses, mental handicaps, women who wanted to learn and become educated and independent and not just stuck being someone's housewife, and also maintain the concept of persons as property.
Ideas which challenge cisgender heteronormative white male-dominated christian nationalism, are quite offensive to the far right wing.
However, those ideas are correct, and grounded in science, and the alternative is not. It is not equal sides, where both things can be true.
it is flat eartherism versus the globe, it is medical science versus faith healing. It is mathematical calculation versus psychic prediction. It is using an aeroplane to fly versus a magic carpet. The two are not the same.
One is legally permitted to have wrong beliefs, and you can't teach someone facts if they are required by their community, culture, religious group, or their livelihood, to not understand those facts. You can't teach someone who earns a living selling snake oil that their snake oil cures no diseases. There will always be another testimonial somewhere attesting to its miracle.
When someone is deliberately willing or required to not understand something, they will refuse to understand it.
That is a form of intellectual cowardice, because it places more value on having a specific position, than holding correct and factual ideas in one's own head.
It values tribal identity over factual science. And it is morally reprehensible.
At the same time, we don't shoot people whose heads are full of terrible ideas. And I said so when Mister Kirk got shot.
At the same time, I also recognize, that if the person being shot was a 7 year old little girl in a school, the same people outraged about Kirk being shot will have already moved on and said, thoughts and prayers.
Because they love their guns more than they love that little girl.
Just another body for the pile, in a nation that ranks something like 160th in terms of the intentional homicide rate.
If having all these guns kept America safe, then the USA would be the nation that ranks 1st in intentional homicide rates, meaning, has the lowest rate.
It doesn't.
Meanwhile, Norway is second or third most gun having nation in terms of guns per capita and the homicide rate is quite extraordinarily low, and the reason why, is because of intense, severe, and very restrictive gun regulations and laws, such as no open carry, and requiring a gun safe.
It is possible to have guns, and be safe. Americans have decided to treat guns as toys, instead of lethal objects.
We put more safety mechanisms on vitamin bottles than we do on a gun.
We care more about little kids seeing a woman's breast or hearing a dirty word, than we care about them being shot in schools.
And those who hold those priorities in their heads, are misguided and wrong.
And probably unaware that they could have a legal right to a gun and also have fewer gun deaths.
But because they WILL NOT be told that they're wrong about anything, and WILL NOT listen to facts and data supporting contrary arguments, they will in fact continue to suffer from their own bad policies that allow psychopaths to obtain guns and commit violence.
These guns are obviously not being used to uphold our personal freedoms or liberties, as the Trump administration is removing those, as per Project 2025. This is not being reported on right wing propaganda outfits masquerading as news, and people are in denial, so they won't listen to you when you show them facts and data regarding those losses of liberties and freedoms, due processes, right to a court or a trial when accused, things of that nature.
The guns are obviously not being used to protect us from an invasive and authoritarian overreach by the federal government.
All those states rights absolutists are absolutely fine with the police being replaced by military sent in by the feds, neither trained nor qualified in civilian law enforcement, overpowering the rights of the local government.
Hey, as long as it's happening to Democrats, it's fine, right?
I'm sure if Obama sent in troops to red states and ordered the local governments to surrender autonomy to him, and Obama also cancelled every right wing news outlet's broadcasting licenses, Republicans would have thrown a stink and called him a dictator.
So would I have done.
But, because it's being done to liberals and democrats, that makes it okay, which exposes these people for the fair weather friends that they are, the not patriots they are, the not brave defenders of democracy, the not believers in the constitution that they are.
It exposes certain extreme right wingers as having no principles, no morality, only tribal identity. A supremacist ideology which rejects facts and condemns anyone not in the group.
And that is an awfully dangerous faction to ever have in power. That is what caused Germany to go from a democracy to a dictatorship, and Germany was a smoking crater when it was all over. No one in Germany won, not even the supremacists.
We have in my lifetime seen Iran go from a freedom loving nation of education and tolerance to a religious theocracy and autocracy at war with the world and allied with terrorist sponsoring criminal states.
that is what happens to nations when people get in power who are in fact malevolent actors who value tribal identity and hatred of others over facts and freedoms and justice for all.
When they only value justice if it pertains to the few people they personally know, they willingly support autocracy.
Charlie Kirk, his lifetime body of work, was dedicated to removing the rights of people he didn't personally know, as well as some he did.
He didn't like other people having the same level of rights and freedoms as himself, and he hated any restrictions, common sense or otherwise, on the accessibility of firearms, being carried in public, by persons with ill intent.
He is allowed to have terrible ideas, and shooting him for those ideas is a bad idea.
But, his bad ideas are what allowed him to be shot so easily in the first place, demonstrating why they're bad.
I can acknowledge how bad the crime is, as well as how silencing someone doesn't make them right or wrong, while also demonstrating with data, that current extremely lax gun laws are not keeping people safe, they're making the country more dangerous, especially compared to the next most gun having, free, liberal democracies around the world, such as Norway or Switzerland. They have many guns, but there are regulations and training and licenses and background checks.
I can also acknowledge that a person didn't need to die for their wrong beliefs, while correctly pointing out how absolutely ignorant, hateful, prejudiced, intolerant, and dangerous those ideas are.
And they are not a difference in policy or opinion.
They are a belief that certain people aren't good enough people to be considered equal.
That is not a policy disagreement, that is a violation of the concept of equality under the law, human rights, and human dignity, and legally protected human freedoms under our constitution.
It is unpatriotic.
It is extremely immoral.
And I will not soften that message for anyone, including the deceased, who spewed vile venom his entire life, poisoning our country with his hateful misinformation and disinformation.
The discussion will continue about what policies are right for the country.
Sadly, some folks will continue to discuss things like, the white house retweeting people saying things like how women shouldn't be able to vote, or gay people shouldn't get married. Or that we shouldn't even have immigrants.
Some folks will continue to behave like a tribe of supremacist bigots, and attack everyone who isn't in their tribe.
They will continue to argue the only people who should have legal rights, are themselves.
And if you follow those ideas to their conclusion, what you get is war.
Because people will die for their freedoms. Especially if you come with an army to take them.
And in war, there is no legally protected freedom for anyone. Especially those who came to take our freedoms.
So if you want to be legally protected from violence, you should support a pluralistic tolerant democracy where everyone has legally protected rights, even if you disagree with them on policy.
If you don't, and you threaten to destroy that democracy and threaten violence with, say, political ads with literal targets on democratic candidates, and campaigns where republicans pose with guns and brag about how theyre going to deal with the people in washington, and how those other people aren't real Americans, you're going to find less and less sympathy when that hateful rhetoric, and calls for violence, tend to backfire.
And while I have sympathies, given how little folks seem to care about mass shootings in gay clubs, assassination attempts on many prominent liberal leaders, kidnapping attempts on the michigan governor, the insurrection at the Capitol led by Trump and the far right, shootings in schools, etc, I have little more to offer those who would grandstand about Charlie Kirk's death, except....
the same level of care, concern, sympathy, given to all those innocent children who died for nothing, "thoughts and prayers".
Those guns aren't being used to defend liberal democrats from an autocratic militarized form of "policing" done by a Republican President who ignores our rights and freedoms. They're merely being used as props in political ads, and toys for sport, and not treated like the dangerous weapons they are, where other nations treat the ownership of a gun as a serious matter that requires investment, training, background checks, and strict adherence to laws prohibiting their misuse, and the extreme liability the gun owners face if they don't lock up their guns.
Thoughts and prayers to those who continue to support ideas not based in science, fact, or analysis, only tribal identity.
I read what you said and disagree with almost if not all of it based on facts and objective morality, statistics, etc. I've argued with people like you who think like you at least a million times. It gets tiring after a point.
I see I am the minority here. (No pun intended since I am Mexican). But I was a huge fan of Charlies. I liked the message he held and appreciated the sincerity he gave.
Kind of a poor forum for a remembrance post. I think a political site or a personal page could have been best. A spot for Roleplay & Entertainment where the whole survival of the site is comradery may not have been the best choice. lol
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From my understanding that is inaccurate. But the political beliefs the shooter may or may not have had is not really the issue here. the "Of Course" mention at the end was un-needed.
The suggestion that conservatives are more likely to commit a violent crime over a non-conservative is a terrible Bias. People that commit these atrocities are not well. And blaming a political party for any 1-person's action is just a heinous misuse of judgement.
Both parties have people in them that do atrocious stuff. So anyone that is talking in this forum and is pointing fingers at the other party are not helping anything.
Instead of trying to lay blame on others you actually talk to your friends talk about specific policies. Try to understand why that person likes that policy or not. And do some research together using source material. NOT Social Media or Biased Articles.
Then maybe at the end you do not agree but can understand why those around you take those stances.
This is just my opinion not common I know. But working together solves more than pride & prejudice creating a divide.
I was wrong about the shooter, dudes just a dude and you are right people from all walks of life so bad shit. But conservatives ARE more likely to do violent crime, that's a statistical fact that Trump himself is trying to scrub clean lmao.
I talk to my friends about politics a lot, most of the time they're not really interested in it. They're just normal people.
I agree working together solves more, most of the people who want divide are on the right (in my personal experience and from what I see in their actions). Most people need to see that they are being driven to remain divided and stay weak. Targeting minorities based on their race and sexuality is one of those ways we stay weak, going after the 1 percent that has no power in the system is wild to me.
Immigrants aren't making your life worse, trans people aren't butchering your children and eradicating women from sports lmfao
I was wrong about the shooter, dudes just a dude and you are right people from all walks of life so bad shit. But conservatives ARE more likely to do violent crime, that's a statistical fact that Trump himself is trying to scrub clean lmao.
Well, CK is getting buried today, having both the President and VC attending among others.
I seriously wonder what the last funeral of a non-governmental/head of state figure was that had that many high-profile American politicians attending if you needed to get an indication of how politicized CK's death has become.
I was wrong about the shooter, dudes just a dude and you are right people from all walks of life so bad shit. But conservatives ARE more likely to do violent crime, that's a statistical fact that Trump himself is trying to scrub clean lmao.
I talk to my friends about politics a lot, most of the time they're not really interested in it. They're just normal people.
I agree working together solves more, most of the people who want divide are on the right (in my personal experience and from what I see in their actions). Most people need to see that they are being driven to remain divided and stay weak. Targeting minorities based on their race and sexuality is one of those ways we stay weak, going after the 1 percent that has no power in the system is wild to me.
Immigrants aren't making your life worse, trans people aren't butchering your children and eradicating women from sports lmfao
I do appreciate your input and can see how these causes could be important for those that believe in them. I can even see where someone could take a high moral stance with these. The major issues I have with them are less of the overall usage of these policies. The biggest issues is the misinformation from both parties. I do not watch the news, have social media, nor do I follow politics as I used to.
If I have an opinion on a topic I check government statistics for source material. With that being said here are the main issues I have as a conservative. What other conservatives believe or not is not something I can argue since I am not the spokes person for it. I am very open to discussion as long as tensions to not rise. At the end of the day I value friendships over trying to be the loudest person in the room.
I will avoid the gun violence thing because the only thing that will lead to is my opinion is pointing fingers. Also, I cannot find any government statistics covering political affiliations with gun violence. If you are ok with that.
For trans rights - This is something I could care less about. If you think you are a woman and want to become one, people are getting their skin changed and tongues cut to look like lizards. I say go for it, it's your surgery that you pay for that has nothing to do with me. The only issue I have here is allowing people to do this to children. Children are impressionable and lack adequate experience to make a solid decision. For my moral standing this is something I am terrified to think parents would do to a child.
The other thing is allowing trans people into the opposite ***'s bathrooms. I have a lot of nieces and nephews and I do not want someone using this thought process to cause them harm. There have been many reports where this has happened. Now is it a normal thing for a trans person to do? Probably not but it opens a door to concerns.
The last thing here is forcing this in schools. My nieces and nephews all go to different schools and in every one of their schools there is a teacher that forces students to use pronouns they are not used to. In a country of freedom of religion this infringes on their religious freedoms. The teacher being trans is not an issue but the forced use of a pronoun that religiously we cannot accept due to our faith is the issue. The teachers will not even accept. "Teacher or Coach" as a substitute because of a political point they want to make.
For me these are the only things I have with trans rights. Apart from that I have trans friends and we get along fine.
As far as immigration growing up in a family of immigrants most liberals I have talked to get angry at me and yell at me when they figure out my Mexican dad is republican. Well that is uncalled for and I am sure is far from the normal mindset of a liberal but I am unsure. I have not looked at these statistics in 10 years so my facts will be outdated. I will just use anecdotal evidence for this one. "I know not admissible by court of law." lol But having grown up in the ghetto of California we had a lot of issues with gangs that came from Mexico illegally. And oddly enough drug problems from those that came from Canada illegally. This does and has impacted my life personally. I have a lot of friends pass because of this growing up.
The way I see it is this matter is exactly like employment or renting a house. Does the person meet the requirements? Will they help benefit society? And do we know who is coming into our society? A vetting process is used to make sure those that are coming in are not going to steal, hurt, or hinder. Now, should we have a more streamlined vetting process to make things go faster? Possibly. My family all immigrated here legally. Half from Mexico, the other half from Germany. We are all proud patriots that have fought for our country to thank them for the opportunities they gave us.
Well, CK is getting buried today, having both the President and VC attending among others.
I seriously wonder what the last funeral of a non-governmental/head of state figure was that had that many high-profile American politicians attending if you needed to get an indication of how politicized CK's death has become.
Note the lack of care or concern for the hundreds of dead school children, or adults shot up in gay night clubs.
No, a single person who advocates for other people's rights to be taken away gets shot, and it's a big event.
If regular, innocent people, dozens of school children, die, this President and this political party do not care.
Because they cannot abuse those people as a political talking point.
They don't care about human life, at all. They only want martyrs so they can argue for more militarized police and government crack downs and removal of our rights.
This is a fight for the very survival of freedom in the USA. The USA we recognize.
It is being buried in a mountain of bull droppings and crocodile tears about violence.
They love the violence, relish it, when it isn't targeting them.
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Then the moment one of their own gets shot at with a gun that their policies allowed that person to have, all of a sudden they start policing our language and telling us how we should be outraged one of theirs died.
I couldn't begin to care anymore. They've allowed too many innocent children to die and
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and there's not a word about civility, tolerance, or
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I will not hear the lies of traitors to freedom, goose-steppers, and fascists. They can shed crocodile tears about Kirk all they want, it does not move me, because I know they relish this. This is what they want to happen.
Because if they didn't, they'd speak out when it wasn't them being shot at. EVER.
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Every single time something like this happens, I will unapologetically remind them how much they did not care when we were the victims, and when apolitical children were the victims.
