Clearing up Misconceptions of Chapter 674

[Trollasaur]

for those who did not understand the content,

summary

madara used a pure yin technique that shot lighting and naruto used his gudou stick as a lightning rod to counter it. Sasuke gained a speed technique that rivals or succeeds madara's speed as well as the power to see limbo, a shadow world where another madara exists and fights. He observed, used trial and error and formed strategies to counter madara with naruto after naruto was hit with limbo and his gudou rod was broken by madara's storm release.

Limbo madara appears to be vulnerable to naruto's physical attacks and naruto can sense but not see him. Madara attempted to take sasuke's eye after realizing they may have more than just a clan relation and wishing he had been born before obito so he could have used him, but using his new technique, sasuke was able to flicker away and stab him with his kusanagi.

Naruto tried to use shikaku's seal-based magnet release to bind madara while sasuke used chidori infused with hagoromo's chakra. Madara used his limbo form as a substitution to escape the combo, dashed across the battlefield in an instant and stole a weakened kakashi's sharingan to gain access to the kamui dimension to retrieve his other rinnegan before sakura could destroy it. The chapter ended with he shooting a gidou rod at she and obito.

for those believing they have found mistakes in the illustration,

sasuke's missing tomoes
-at the moment, stating sasuke's tomoes disappearing is invalid. This is a new eye and we do not know its properties. He using its powers may be causing them to disappear, especially when gazing in the limbo dimension.

ftg kunai without a formula
-the formula may not be visible because that portion of it may be in naruto's mouth.

eyes of the characters darkened
-that was a scanlation mistake. Check other sources and you will see the eyes are clearer. Furthermore, those panels are not closeups of the characters.

sasuke's crescent moon turning white
-may be caused by he using sage's chakra as he stated and as was shown when his chidori turned black like it was when he used curse mark 2, as well as the light from the technique reflecting off his hand.

for those who believe there were plot holes,

madara instantly taking and inserting kakashi's eye without surgery.
-itachi and shisui were skilled at instantly removing eyes as well and madara does not require long term healing because he possesses hashirama's clone and the juubi that both regenerate him.

madara using kamui as the jinchurki when obito could not
-obito sealed the juubi into the kamui dimension while madara sealed it into his body. Obito using kamui implied releasing the juubi or parts of obito contending with it with no defense.

sasuke cleaving madara
-sasuke's chidori and lighting element have stated and shown by him to be able to cut through anything. The only thing that has stopped it as of yet is killer's bee's own lighting streaming and itachi's yata mirror. Furthermore, sasuke has been boosted by hagoromo's blessing and his lighting element may be yin based now just like madara's yin lightning.

kakashi not reacting to madara
-kakashi as was shown is panting, slumped over and worn out from fighting and using kamui for eighty some chapters. He also stated he was going blind. Furthermore, with madara able to dodge and block ftg slash while flickering across the battlefield in an instant, kakashi does not possess the speed to react to him.

Hopefully this clears things up, or at least objectifies them and i won't have to read another ten confusion and or rant threads about each one. Cheers.

lol okay. Sure thing pal. I think I lost a couple of IQ points reading that. That is just so stupid.

 

[Zol]

Madara using Kamui as the jinchurki when Obito could not
-Obito sealed the Juubi into the Kamui dimension while Madara sealed it into his body. Obito using Kamui implied releasing the juubi or parts of Obito contending with it with no defense.

That's nonsense. For all we know, Obito properly sealed the Juubi, there was no indication/mentioning of him doing it different.

The reason why Madara can use Kamui despite being a Jin, is most likely the very simple one that he is stronger than Obito and has a tighter grip on the Juubi.

 

[AlphaScythian]

That's nonsense. For all we know, Obito properly sealed the Juubi, there was no indication/mentioning of him doing it different.

The reason why Madara can use Kamui despite being a Jin, is most likely the very simple one that he is stronger than Obito and has a tighter grip on the Juubi.

How does he have tighter grip if obito steals chakra from him? It just as good as oh but madara has longer hair, that's why.

 

[Draphsin]

That seal has no stated meaning and was different in Obito.

The seal is a rinnegan jutsu.

The seal has been quietly passed down for years [

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].

Kamui is not a sealing jutsu, obito has never once gained the abilities of the people he absorbs with kamui so prove that he can do so.

Naruto sensed obito using a jutsu, & he sensed the bijuu enter him, he didn't sense them get transported to another dimension, & there are no kamui lines indicating that he used it.

Saying that he used kamui is assumption when the same seals are used by both madara & obito [

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]. Obito only has a slight variation in his seal but his staff was different too, so it can simply be the indication of an imperfect jinchuuriki.

Further more Obito's sealing process was interrupted by minato, as you can see there is no delay time when madara seals juubi and the process itself is visually different with one resembling kamui vortex.

The process is not different at all. The juubi got sucked into obito & madara when they performed the same seal. This is a fact. Okay the juubi "wrapped" around obito, so what? Obito was on top of it & madara was in front of it, so they got sucked in differently.

There are no kamui lines so kamui wasn't used.

Its far better explanation then "oh juubi makes obito too fat for kamui" or "he couldnt control it" when he clearly did U_U

Both of those explanations are worse because you literally chose the worst ones. Have we seen madara use his MS abilities as a juubi jin? Maybe becoming a juubi jin removes the host's previous abilities in exchange for new ones? We have no idea what the explanation is but one thing is for sure & it's that kamui was not used to absorb the juubi.

 

[Misconception]

That kamui statement was huge misconception...

 

[ANONNEWBIE]

For those who did not understand the content,

Summary

Madara used a pure yin technique that shot lighting and Naruto used his gudou stick as a lightning rod to counter it. Sasuke gained a speed technique that rivals or succeeds Madara's speed as well as the power to see Limbo, a shadow world where another Madara exists and fights. He observed, used trial and error and formed strategies to counter Madara with Naruto after Naruto was hit with Limbo and his gudou rod was broken by Madara's storm release.

Limbo Madara appears to be vulnerable to Naruto's physical attacks and Naruto can sense but not see him. Madara attempted to take Sasuke's eye after realizing they may have more than just a clan relation and wishing he had been born before Obito so he could have used him, but using his new technique, Sasuke was able to flicker away and stab him with his Kusanagi.

Naruto tried to use Shikaku's seal-based Magnet release to bind Madara while Sasuke used Chidori infused with Hagoromo's chakra. Madara used his limbo form as a substitution to escape the combo, dashed across the battlefield in an instant and stole a weakened Kakashi's sharingan to gain access to the Kamui dimension to retrieve his other Rinnegan before Sakura could destroy it. The chapter ended with he shooting a gidou rod at she and Obito.

For those believing they have found mistakes in the illustration,

Sasuke's Missing Tomoes
-At the moment, stating Sasuke's tomoes disappearing is invalid. This is a new eye and we do not know its properties. He using its powers may be causing them to disappear, especially when gazing in the Limbo dimension.

FTG kunai without a formula
-The formula may not be visible because that portion of it may be in Naruto's mouth.

Eyes of the characters darkened
-That was a scanlation mistake. Check other sources and you will see the eyes are clearer. Furthermore, those panels are not closeups of the characters.

Sasuke's crescent moon turning white
-May be caused by he using sage's chakra as he stated and as was shown when his chidori turned black like it was when he used curse mark 2, as well as the light from the technique reflecting off his hand.

For those who believe there were plot holes,

Madara instantly taking and inserting Kakashi's eye without surgery.
-Itachi and Shisui were skilled at instantly removing eyes as well and Madara does not require long term healing because he possesses Hashirama's clone and the Juubi that both regenerate him.

Madara using Kamui as the jinchurki when Obito could not
-Obito sealed the Juubi into the Kamui dimension while Madara sealed it into his body. Obito using Kamui implied releasing the juubi or parts of Obito contending with it with no defense.

Sasuke cleaving Madara
-Sasuke's chidori and lighting element have stated and shown by him to be able to cut through anything. The only thing that has stopped it as of yet is Killer's bee's own lighting streaming and Itachi's Yata Mirror. Furthermore, Sasuke has been boosted by Hagoromo's blessing and his lighting element may be Yin based now just like Madara's Yin lightning. The most plausible theory is that his new speed technique allowed him to cut him in half.

Kakashi not reacting to Madara
-Kakashi as was shown is panting, slumped over and worn out from fighting and using kamui for eighty some chapters. He also stated he was going blind. Furthermore, with Madara able to dodge and block FTG slash while flickering across the battlefield in an instant, Kakashi does not possess the speed to react to him.

Hopefully this clears things up, or at least objectifies them and I won't have to read another ten confusion and or rant threads about each one. Cheers.

'Obito sealed the Juubi into the Kamui dimension while Madara sealed it into his body' then how can someone become sage without sealing juubi inside him? how and where did naruto defeat obito?

your logic is if you cant convince them then confuse...

 

[AlphaScythian]

The seal is a rinnegan jutsu.
The seal has been quietly passed down for years [

You must be registered for see links

].
Kamui is not a sealing jutsu, obito has never once gained the abilities of the people he absorbs with kamui so prove that he can do so.
Naruto sensed obito using a jutsu, & he sensed the bijuu enter him, he didn't sense them get transported to another dimension, & there are no kamui lines indicating that he used it.
Saying that he used kamui is assumption when the same seals are used by both madara & obito [

You must be registered for see links

]. Obito only has a slight variation in his seal but his staff was different too, so it can simply be the indication of an imperfect jinchuuriki.

Yet the sage has already lost juubi but has the seal on his back, naruto doesnt have juubi but has the seal on his back.
Its more of indication to sage senjutsu then being a juubi host.

Yes kamui isnt a sealing jutsu but people arent made of chakra like juubi either. Obito proved that its possible to absorb juubi however.

Staff is irrelevant and madara was shown to have obito's one yet with same seal its still differs from sage.

I hardly believe there is another variation of seal for juubi.
Naruto sensed bijuus entering obito while he was holding seal not after, sensing in other dimension is beyond his power.

The process is not different at all. The juubi got sucked into obito & madara when they performed the same seal. This is a fact. Okay the juubi "wrapped" around obito, so what? Obito was on top of it & madara was in front of it, so they got sucked in differently.
There are no kamui lines so kamui wasn't used.

Yes there are clear kamui/spiral lines in the scan, the dust follows spiral path just like katon follows bended space in bakkufu ranbo. All indicate kamui.

Both of those explanations are worse because you literally chose the worst ones. Have we seen madara use his MS abilities as a juubi jin? Maybe becoming a juubi jin removes the host's previous abilities in exchange for new ones? We have no idea what the explanation is but one thing is for sure & it's that kamui was not used to absorb the juubi.

Madara never displayed any MS moves besides susanoo.

I could agree thou that obito seal difference could be due to absorbed chakra before interruption thus imperfect, but the rest was absorbed by kamui.

 

[-Spoiler-]

Since when is Kamui a sealing jutsu?

 

[Draphsin]

Yet the sage has already lost juubi but has the seal on his back, naruto doesnt have juubi but has the seal on his back.

Naruto has all the bijuu's chakra, he needs a seal for them.

Yet the sage still has onmyoudon & levitation, indications that he still wields a portion of the juubi's power.

Its more of indication to sage senjutsu then being a juubi host.

Assumption, all juubi jins have that seal, naruto is jin of all 9 bijuu but the seal was given to him by hagoromo so it makes sense that it's the same one.

Yes kamui isnt a sealing jutsu but people arent made of chakra like juubi either. Obito proved that its possible to absorb juubi however.

So what if people aren't made of chakra, how does that change the fact that naruto sensed the bijuu enter obito's body & not the other dimension? Stop grasping at straws the bijuu's chakra entered obito's body just as it did to madara, nothing implies otherwise other than false interpretations.

Staff is irrelevant and madara was shown to have obito's one yet with same seal its still differs from sage.

That was a drawing error, madara has only been shown with obito's staff once, it's apparent that he's supposed to have the crescent moon staff.

I hardly believe there is another variation of seal for juubi.
Naruto sensed bijuus entering obito while he was holding seal not after, sensing in other dimension is beyond his power.

Well the manga showed & explained to us that there is a specific seal that hagoromo created for the juubi, madara & obito used that same seal as shown by their handsigns.

Where did I say that naruto can sense in the other dimension? Naruto sensed them enter obito, so unless you're telling me that obito used kamui after the bijuu entered him [which makes no sense], then kamui was not used.

The seal most likely caused the bijuu chakra to enter him, & the body followed once he had it all.

Yes there are clear kamui/spiral lines in the scan, the dust follows spiral path just like katon follows bended space in bakkufu ranbo. All indicate kamui.

Show me the kamui lines around obito's eye, that's the only time kamui is ever implied to be used.

Madara never displayed any MS moves besides susanoo.

My point exactly, where is madara's susanoo that he likes to spam? Obito lost kamui, madara lost susanoo, sounds like a trade off to me.

I could agree thou that obito seal difference could due to absorbed chakra before interruption thus imperfect, but the rest was absorbed by kamui.

It was not absorbed by kamui, there is nothing indicating such a thing.

When kakashi kamui'd bee did he become the 8 tail jin? Kamui is a transportation technique, you use it to get from one place to another. You don't use it to merge with or seal a tailed beast.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

When did he seal the Juubi into the dimension. When the Juubi was going into him Naruto realized he was using a different thing the whole time to become a Jinchuuriki. And he could not move through Kamui because the Juubi was too large to move dimensions.

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Red-Kamui whirl

Blue-Obito grasping his sharingan

 

[Trollasaur]

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Red-Kamui whirl

Blue-Obito grasping his sharingan

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bottom right

rekt

 

[Joseph Gomes]

For those who did not understand the content,

Summary

Madara used a pure yin technique that shot lighting and Naruto used his gudou stick as a lightning rod to counter it. Sasuke gained a speed technique that rivals or succeeds Madara's speed as well as the power to see Limbo, a shadow world where another Madara exists and fights. He observed, used trial and error and formed strategies to counter Madara with Naruto after Naruto was hit with Limbo and his gudou rod was broken by Madara's storm release.

Limbo Madara appears to be vulnerable to Naruto's physical attacks and Naruto can sense but not see him. Madara attempted to take Sasuke's eye after realizing they may have more than just a clan relation and wishing he had been born before Obito so he could have used him, but using his new technique, Sasuke was able to flicker away and stab him with his Kusanagi.

Naruto tried to use Shikaku's seal-based Magnet release to bind Madara while Sasuke used Chidori infused with Hagoromo's chakra. Madara used his limbo form as a substitution to escape the combo, dashed across the battlefield in an instant and stole a weakened Kakashi's sharingan to gain access to the Kamui dimension to retrieve his other Rinnegan before Sakura could destroy it. The chapter ended with he shooting a gidou rod at she and Obito.

For those believing they have found mistakes in the illustration,

Sasuke's Missing Tomoes
-At the moment, stating Sasuke's tomoes disappearing is invalid. This is a new eye and we do not know its properties. He using its powers may be causing them to disappear, especially when gazing in the Limbo dimension.

FTG kunai without a formula
-The formula may not be visible because that portion of it may be in Naruto's mouth.

Eyes of the characters darkened
-That was a scanlation mistake. Check other sources and you will see the eyes are clearer. Furthermore, those panels are not closeups of the characters.

Sasuke's crescent moon turning white
-May be caused by he using sage's chakra as he stated and as was shown when his chidori turned black like it was when he used curse mark 2, as well as the light from the technique reflecting off his hand.

For those who believe there were plot holes,

Madara instantly taking and inserting Kakashi's eye without surgery.
-Itachi and Shisui were skilled at instantly removing eyes as well and Madara does not require long term healing because he possesses Hashirama's clone and the Juubi that both regenerate him.

Madara using Kamui as the jinchurki when Obito could not
-Obito sealed the Juubi into the Kamui dimension while Madara sealed it into his body. Obito using Kamui implied releasing the juubi or parts of Obito contending with it with no defense.

Sasuke cleaving Madara
-Sasuke's chidori and lighting element have stated and shown by him to be able to cut through anything. The only thing that has stopped it as of yet is Killer's bee's own lighting streaming and Itachi's Yata Mirror. Furthermore, Sasuke has been boosted by Hagoromo's blessing and his lighting element may be Yin based now just like Madara's Yin lightning. The most plausible theory is that his new speed technique allowed him to cut him in half.

Kakashi not reacting to Madara
-Kakashi as was shown is panting, slumped over and worn out from fighting and using kamui for eighty some chapters. He also stated he was going blind. Furthermore, with Madara able to dodge and block FTG slash while flickering across the battlefield in an instant, Kakashi does not possess the speed to react to him.

Hopefully this clears things up, or at least objectifies them and I won't have to read another ten confusion and or rant threads about each one. Cheers.

Madara using Kamui makes no sense at all. No Juubi jinchuriki should be able to use Kamui. If Madara can, then Obito should've as well. This is the biggest plot hole of Naruto

 

[AlphaScythian]

Naruto has all the bijuu's chakra, he needs a seal for them.
Yet the sage still has onmyoudon & levitation, indications that he still wields a portion of the juubi's power.
Assumption, all juubi jins have that seal, naruto is jin of all 9 bijuu but the seal was given to him by hagoromo so it makes sense that it's the same one.

9 bijuus arent juubi, its different entity all together. He didnt seal them either he was just having their chakra.
Naruto only gets seal on his back when he is entering senjutsu mode opposed to juubi jins.

Sage levitation could be due to rinnegan solely.

So what if people aren't made of chakra, how does that change the fact that naruto sensed the bijuu enter obito's body & not the other dimension? Stop grasping at straws the bijuu's chakra entered obito's body just as it did to madara, nothing implies otherwise other than false interpretations.

People arent made of chakra thus obito cant incorporate them via absorption like chakra.
Once again, naruto was sensing bijus while obito held the seal, its little relevance to after minato's strike.

That was a drawing error, madara has only been shown with obito's staff once, it's apparent that he's supposed to have the crescent moon staff.

Sun/moon staff could be references to different personalities for all we know.
Madara still has different staff from hagoromo while supposedly same seal. Wasnt you the one saying its only emulation of sage staff?

Well the manga showed & explained to us that there is a specific seal that hagoromo created for the juubi, madara & obito used that same seal as shown by their handsigns.

Then what would be a proper explanation for different seal design?

Where did I say that naruto can sense in the other dimension? Naruto sensed them enter obito, so unless you're telling me that obito used kamui after the bijuu entered him [which makes no sense], then kamui was not used.
The seal most likely caused the bijuu chakra to enter him, & the body followed once he had it all.

Im saying that obito had to use kamui as sealing was interrupted thus juubi was far from sealed.

Show me the kamui lines around obito's eye, that's the only time kamui is ever implied to be used.

Clearly obito's eyes is blocked. Spiral lines are clearly displayed in the scan all around, the dust follows bended by kamui space and juubi is getting absorbed unevenly just like it happens with person via kamui.
Shall you request the scan i'll give them, but as obito fan yourself you should know well.

My point exactly, where is madara's susanoo that he likes to spam? Obito lost kamui, madara lost susanoo, sounds like a trade off to me.

Yet madara clearly used kamui now, so contradiction to your trade off.

It was not absorbed by kamui, there is nothing indicating such a thing.
When kakashi kamui'd bee did he become the 8 tail jin? Kamui is a transportation technique, you use it to get from one place to another. You don't use it to merge with or seal a tailed beast.

Except kamui lines and absorbtion patterns?

Clearly kakashi hasnt displayed ability to absorb any1's chakra like obito neither had such intention in 1st place.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

'Obito sealed the Juubi into the Kamui dimension while Madara sealed it into his body' then how can someone become sage without sealing juubi inside him? how and where did naruto defeat obito?

Because my belief is that the Kamui dimension is inside Obito and no one else.

your logic is if you cant convince them then confuse...

And thanks a lot for the negative rep when I did absolutely nothing to insult you and instead busted my ass using the data I had and observations I made to help you and others understand better. Really appreciate it, "friend."

 

[Trollasaur]

Because my belief is that the Kamui dimension is inside Obito and no one else.



And thanks a lot for the negative rep when I did absolutely nothing to insult you and instead busted my ass using the data I had and observations I made to help you and others understand better. Really appreciate it, "friend."

Dat baseless asumption

 

[AlphaScythian]

Dat baseless asumption

Assumption may be baseless yet is has a sense to it and it is sad that manga shared so little light on it.
We arent stating it just for the kicks nor does obito get any hype at this point, it all is in order to provide plausible explanation behind current kamui dilemma.

The core of our theory is visual differences in the sealing process between obito and madara, where in obito's case it's too similar with kamui.

Kishi obviously needed to limit kamui for jin obito in order to provide winning chance for the good guys.
Our scenario is very simple, the sealing process was interrupted by minato and obito used kamui to absorb and trap juubi.
Sadly we cannot provide undeniable proof for that with proper mechanics and it all may turn out to be false, but i find it having decent sense much better then all others you've heard and much more creative from writing perspective.

So no needs to neg rep people for trying to help and while they debate as mature adults U_U

 

[Trollasaur]

Assumption may be baseless yet is has a sense to it and it is sad that manga shared so little light on it.
We arent stating it just for the kicks nor does obito get any hype at this point, it all is in order to provide plausible explanation behind current kamui dilemma.

The core of our theory is visual differences in the sealing process between obito and madara, where in obito's case it's too similar with kamui.

Kishi obviously needed to limit kamui for jin obito in order to provide winning chance for the good guys.
Our scenario is very simple, the sealing process was interrupted by minato and obito used kamui to absorb and trap juubi.
Sadly we cannot provide undeniable proof for that with proper mechanics and it all may turn out to be false, but i find it having decent sense much better then all others you've heard and much more creative from writing perspective.

So no needs to neg rep people for trying to help and while they debate as mature adults U_U

I don't neg rep.

 

[Zol]

How does he have tighter grip if obito steals chakra from him? It just as good as oh but madara has longer hair, that's why.

He has a tighter grip since he was easily able to control it, even though it was more powerful than when Obito was a Jinchuuriki.

 

[TehMastermind]

God bless you, and people need to realize that Kakashi isn't at Naruto's and Sasuke's level, so unlike them, he can't react to all of Madara's movements as they are god level

 

[Retros1000]

nice thread can you think/redirect to a post about how madara lives, let alone use kamui, after half cut?