Not gonna quote everything because the points I make here to address some of the points The Arizen made really address all the points.
I’m gonna be emphasizing this point a lot, but most of the K12 doesn’t have Temari’s reaction feats and speed. For now, I’m just going to say that Sasuke’s inability to react to Lee in spite of Sasuke having 2T pre-cog demonstrates that it takes high reaction speeds to be able to react to weighted Lee. I don’t believe that Hinata has that kind of reaction speed, in spite of her fight with Neji, and I’ll show why in the rest of this post.
In regards to Temari reacting to Lee's kick and considering it “pathetic”:
As for Temari reacting to Lee’s kick: Temari's reactions are among the best in Part 1. Comparing Temari to Hinata doesn't really make sense to me unless you can actually show that Hinata's reactions are Temari-level. I know her
Furthermore, the fan is made of iron. Hinata is not made of iron. The scan you posted highlights that Lee's fighting style is designed to be
Also, obviously if Temari’s battle style revolves around swinging a giant iron fan, she’s gotta be stronger than average.
Finally, I’m not making it out to be this epic power kick that should bend iron and kick things halfway across the village. I’m emphasizing that Hinata isn’t strong enough to deal with Lee’s power, though, unless she can dodge (and she’s never dodged anything in Part 1, so I doubt this).
Basically, no, Hinata does not do anything the same way that Temari does.
Aside from that, you don’t know what exactly Gai was referring to here. He could have been referring to defeating the entirety of Gentle Fist techniques, which Neji was in the process of mastering. And
In other words, it is not confirmed that prelims Lee needs to be unweighted to compete with Hinata. It’s only confirmed that Lee needs to be unweighted to deal with a Jyuuken master, Neji, which Hinata is not.
Basically, I don’t think Hinata has any counter to Leaf Spinning Wind. Either she does what Sasuke does and gets hit, or she gets hit by the first hit.
Neosmith already pointed it out, but you misread this fight. The way this fight actually went is that
Neji says nothing that indicates he estimates Hinata’s abilities as anywhere near his own. Even if that glancing blow meant anything, his estimate is still that
Finally, there are no feats showing that Hinata can actually counter Lee’s “Iron Fist” style. Blocking and parrying Jyuuken doesn’t require physical strength, because the attacks of Jyuuken aren’t based on impact damage. This is demonstrated by how even when Hinata lands a clean hit on Neji, it doesn’t do anything to him whatsoever without her being able to release chakra into his tenketsu. Hinata’s feats of parrying Neji’s Jyuuken strikes aren’t comparable to what it takes to counter Iron Fist, a style that does require physical strength to counter. In other words, Hinata has no feats to show that she can block Lee’s moves without taking damage. In fact, she never even truly “blocked” Neji (since he was hitting her tenketsu points during those trades). And she was never shown to dodge his moves either (whereas Neji did dodge Jyuuken strikes). Hinata’s body speed is actually more limited than you’re making it out to be, and is not actually all that comparable to Neji’s. Even if your argument that Lee needed Primary Lotus to deal with Neji's reactions was solid (I’ve shown that it’s shaky), Hinata’s reactions are nowhere near Neji’s (he landed many hits on her that she couldn’t even notice or react to in spite of having Byakugan active).
A glancing blow is only enough if Hinata hits Lee in a vital point. Hinata had been
Even if Hinata lands a hit on a vital point, Lee didn't mean a glancing blow was enough to end the battle. It's enough to do significant damage,
64P is the one-shot move. Prelims Hinata doesn't have it.
So in conclusion:
It doesn’t matter how much slower Prelims Lee is with weights on, since my original argument only ever used his weighted feats for reference. Nothing in my argument relies on unweighted Lee. Obviously unweighted Lee has insane speed. But we have plenty of weighted Lee speed feats that show that he remains fast in both movement and body speed (his attacks being too fast for 2T pre-cog to help Sasuke defend/counter = body speed).I think u fail to understand how much slower lee is with weights , he went from bein able to blitz 2T sasuke , then to bein unable to blitz temari to makin temari piss her self lol..
You must be registered for see links
I’m gonna be emphasizing this point a lot, but most of the K12 doesn’t have Temari’s reaction feats and speed. For now, I’m just going to say that Sasuke’s inability to react to Lee in spite of Sasuke having 2T pre-cog demonstrates that it takes high reaction speeds to be able to react to weighted Lee. I don’t believe that Hinata has that kind of reaction speed, in spite of her fight with Neji, and I’ll show why in the rest of this post.
In regards to Temari reacting to Lee's kick and considering it “pathetic”:
Temari and Gaara calling Lee pathetic is irrelevant. Of course both prelims Temari and Gaara consider(ed) Lee pathetic. They’re tiers above pretty much everyone else in the prelims (of course, they didn't know how strong Lee actually was), including Hinata and Neji. It’s also just an in-character comment to set up that everyone was underestimating Lee (i.e., it’s de-hype). Doesn’t have anything to do with Lee’s actual capabilities in a matchup with Hinata. Besides, it’s not like they were like “Lee is pathetic, but that Hinata girl is better.”Lee's physical power is ntn , its irrelevant to people like neji , hinata and temari , why didnt lee's so called epic power kick blast temari's fan into her face when she no diffed it with one hand , why did she call it pathetic?
You must be registered for see links
As for Temari reacting to Lee’s kick: Temari's reactions are among the best in Part 1. Comparing Temari to Hinata doesn't really make sense to me unless you can actually show that Hinata's reactions are Temari-level. I know her
You must be registered for see links
of
You must be registered for see links
is an SRA feat (by the way, if you didn’t know, yeah, Temari reacted to soundwaves, and only CM Sasuke has replicated that feat). Still, there's nothing that happens in the Chunin Exams to indicate that her reactions are any slower. Tenten gets rekt offscreen; and Temari only ever gets caught by things she can't see to react to in her fight against Shikamaru – her reactions never failed. Temari’s reactions are consistently amazing. That Temari blocked Lee's kick doesn't make weighted Lee "slow." Furthermore, the fan is made of iron. Hinata is not made of iron. The scan you posted highlights that Lee's fighting style is designed to be
You must be registered for see links
. And the strength feat of him sticking his hand underground and pulling roots shows that Lee still has considerable strength even with his weights on that exceeds every other prelim-character’s strength feats. Prelims Hinata’s not going to just block a Leaf Spinning Wind – she is not made of iron, and she doesn’t have any impressive blocking feats. This is a contentious claim that I’ll prove in the rest of my post. But, essentially, Lee’s fighting style remains effective in this battle, especially since prelims Hinata hasn’t mastered Jyuuken (i.e. Hinata and Neji are on entirely different levels in spite of that fight, and again, I will demonstrate this). Also, obviously if Temari’s battle style revolves around swinging a giant iron fan, she’s gotta be stronger than average.
Finally, I’m not making it out to be this epic power kick that should bend iron and kick things halfway across the village. I’m emphasizing that Hinata isn’t strong enough to deal with Lee’s power, though, unless she can dodge (and she’s never dodged anything in Part 1, so I doubt this).
Again, there is no indication that Hinata has the same reactions as Temari. And saying Hinata doesn’t have the same reactions as Temari is not the same thing as saying Temari can trade blows with someone like Neji. Also, Lee’s body speed is nowhere near as low as you’re making it out to be.So now i'v proven that she has the body speed needed to contend with people wayyyyyy above weighted lee's taijustsu level. Hinata reacts to and trashes weighted lee the same way temari reacted to him and temari in inferior to hinata in taijutsu unless u think temari could trade blows with neji?
You must be registered for see links
Basically, no, Hinata does not do anything the same way that Temari does.
Obviously, Neji’s reflexes > Hinata’s reflexes.Its confirmed that lee needed to remove his weights and open gates in order to bypass neji's reflexes.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
Aside from that, you don’t know what exactly Gai was referring to here. He could have been referring to defeating the entirety of Gentle Fist techniques, which Neji was in the process of mastering. And
You must be registered for see links
(which counters anything Lee does that isn’t based on releasing a Gate). There’s nothing here that means Lee needs Primary Lotus to defeat Hinata's reflexes/Jyuuken.In other words, it is not confirmed that prelims Lee needs to be unweighted to compete with Hinata. It’s only confirmed that Lee needs to be unweighted to deal with a Jyuuken master, Neji, which Hinata is not.
Lee has impressive body speed even while weighted; outpacing Sasuke’s reactions with 2T pre-cog requires body speed, because the attacks aren’t just based on movement-speed alone. In any case, Leaf Spinning Wind is aMost of wat u said here is irrelevant , we know that in order to keep up with people like lee in taijutsu u need fast enough body speed to react or else u get trashed instantly with no reaction to trade blows or anything , its the same with neji.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
and weighted Lee’s
You must be registered for see links
So yes, weighted Lee has great body speed. Basically, I don’t think Hinata has any counter to Leaf Spinning Wind. Either she does what Sasuke does and gets hit, or she gets hit by the first hit.
If Hinata tries to attack first, the most likely scenario is that,While hinata traded blows and almost caught neji with a glancing blow in the very first seconds of the fight when she was fresh.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
Again,
You must be registered for see links
no way in hell does Hinata react to it. Even with Byakugan,
You must be registered for see links
. In other words, Byakugan’s insight is useless unless Hinata has the body speed to react. Again, gonna show that she doesn’t, in spite of her performance against Neji.You can call it what you want, but it’s not like Neji pulled out 64P or Kaiten for this fight. Maybe he didn’t have Kaiten yet, but I doubt that he suddenly learned both Kaiten and 64P between the prelims and the Chunin Exams.Nb4 neji was going easy on her , a glancing blow is all thats needed , neji would not allow himself to almost get glanced at the start which shows hinata's hidden prowes against the hyuga's genius.
You must be registered for see links
Neosmith already pointed it out, but you misread this fight. The way this fight actually went is that
You must be registered for see links
at the start of the fight
You must be registered for see links
He obviously knew he’d done that, and that’s why
You must be registered for see links
And this allowed him to do things like not care about Hinata’s strikes anymore, because they were basically harmless.
You must be registered for see links
Even though Hinata kept fighting throughout, she’d lost immediately.
You must be registered for see links
She wasn’t truly “competing.”Neji says nothing that indicates he estimates Hinata’s abilities as anywhere near his own. Even if that glancing blow meant anything, his estimate is still that
You must be registered for see links
The other ninja were only impressed by Hinata’s confidence and effort, not necessarily by her skill in comparison to Neji. No one said anything like "Her Jyuuken and reactions are on par/comparable to Neji's."Finally, there are no feats showing that Hinata can actually counter Lee’s “Iron Fist” style. Blocking and parrying Jyuuken doesn’t require physical strength, because the attacks of Jyuuken aren’t based on impact damage. This is demonstrated by how even when Hinata lands a clean hit on Neji, it doesn’t do anything to him whatsoever without her being able to release chakra into his tenketsu. Hinata’s feats of parrying Neji’s Jyuuken strikes aren’t comparable to what it takes to counter Iron Fist, a style that does require physical strength to counter. In other words, Hinata has no feats to show that she can block Lee’s moves without taking damage. In fact, she never even truly “blocked” Neji (since he was hitting her tenketsu points during those trades). And she was never shown to dodge his moves either (whereas Neji did dodge Jyuuken strikes). Hinata’s body speed is actually more limited than you’re making it out to be, and is not actually all that comparable to Neji’s. Even if your argument that Lee needed Primary Lotus to deal with Neji's reactions was solid (I’ve shown that it’s shaky), Hinata’s reactions are nowhere near Neji’s (he landed many hits on her that she couldn’t even notice or react to in spite of having Byakugan active).
A glancing blow is only enough if Hinata hits Lee in a vital point. Hinata had been
You must be registered for see links
having been hit by many blows.[/URL] Even if Hinata lands a hit on a vital point, Lee didn't mean a glancing blow was enough to end the battle. It's enough to do significant damage,
You must be registered for see links
Neji had made
You must be registered for see links
. Considering that Lee’s style doesn’t even need chakra releases to perform since it’s solely taijutsu based, unless Hinata lands a clean hit on one of Lee’s vital points, I doubt she stops Lee that easily. The strength of his attacks would remain, and if
You must be registered for see links
, including one to a vital area, then Lee can still remain a threat too. Keep in mind that this was a guy who was still trying to train after having his limbs crushed by Gaara’s Sand Coffin.64P is the one-shot move. Prelims Hinata doesn't have it.
So in conclusion:
- Temari's feats are irrelevant; Hinata does not have reaction feats that put her on the level of Temari's reaction feats.
- Temari blocking Lee's kick with an iron bar says nothing about how Hinata would take a hit.
- Prelims Hinata does not have true blocking feats; every time she appeared to block one of Neji's moves, it was actually Neji sealing her tenketsu points.
- Prelims Hinata has no dodging feats or movement speed feats to indicate that she could just dodge Lee's attacks.
- Option 1: If Hinata tries to initiate the battle (probably more likely in-character if she's been motivated, since she came at Neji after being motivated), Lee counters and launches the same way he did against Sasuke and follows it up with Shadow Leaf Dance (he doesn't need to go into Primary Lotus, he can just continue with a regular attack since Hinata is gonna be useless in the air).
- Option 2: If Lee initiates the battle, he uses Leaf Spinning Wind. Hinata either tries to block and gets hit by the second part of the attack, or just gets hit.
- Lee's strength/stamina is enough that he can just keep doing either of these things; Hinata doesn't have the movement speed to force Lee to have to do anything else. Hinata takes physical damage until she's incapacitated, or until her ability to use Jyuuken is no longer a threat and Lee can just finish the battle easily.
Note: This is in-character for Rock Lee.You must be registered for see linksHe's pretty tactical when it comes to responding to an opponent's fighting style. Don't forget that Lee is a confirmed Taijutsu genius.
Last edited: