Chunin prelims hinata Vs Prelims lee.

Claymantan

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Not gonna quote everything because the points I make here to address some of the points The Arizen made really address all the points.

I think u fail to understand how much slower lee is with weights , he went from bein able to blitz 2T sasuke , then to bein unable to blitz temari to makin temari piss her self lol..
It doesn’t matter how much slower Prelims Lee is with weights on, since my original argument only ever used his weighted feats for reference. Nothing in my argument relies on unweighted Lee. Obviously unweighted Lee has insane speed. But we have plenty of weighted Lee speed feats that show that he remains fast in both movement and body speed (his attacks being too fast for 2T pre-cog to help Sasuke defend/counter = body speed).

I’m gonna be emphasizing this point a lot, but most of the K12 doesn’t have Temari’s reaction feats and speed. For now, I’m just going to say that Sasuke’s inability to react to Lee in spite of Sasuke having 2T pre-cog demonstrates that it takes high reaction speeds to be able to react to weighted Lee. I don’t believe that Hinata has that kind of reaction speed, in spite of her fight with Neji, and I’ll show why in the rest of this post.

In regards to Temari reacting to Lee's kick and considering it “pathetic”:
Lee's physical power is ntn , its irrelevant to people like neji , hinata and temari , why didnt lee's so called epic power kick blast temari's fan into her face when she no diffed it with one hand , why did she call it pathetic?
Temari and Gaara calling Lee pathetic is irrelevant. Of course both prelims Temari and Gaara consider(ed) Lee pathetic. They’re tiers above pretty much everyone else in the prelims (of course, they didn't know how strong Lee actually was), including Hinata and Neji. It’s also just an in-character comment to set up that everyone was underestimating Lee (i.e., it’s de-hype). Doesn’t have anything to do with Lee’s actual capabilities in a matchup with Hinata. Besides, it’s not like they were like “Lee is pathetic, but that Hinata girl is better.”

As for Temari reacting to Lee’s kick: Temari's reactions are among the best in Part 1. Comparing Temari to Hinata doesn't really make sense to me unless you can actually show that Hinata's reactions are Temari-level. I know her of is an SRA feat (by the way, if you didn’t know, yeah, Temari reacted to soundwaves, and only CM Sasuke has replicated that feat). Still, there's nothing that happens in the Chunin Exams to indicate that her reactions are any slower. Tenten gets rekt offscreen; and Temari only ever gets caught by things she can't see to react to in her fight against Shikamaru – her reactions never failed. Temari’s reactions are consistently amazing. That Temari blocked Lee's kick doesn't make weighted Lee "slow."

Furthermore, the fan is made of iron. Hinata is not made of iron. The scan you posted highlights that Lee's fighting style is designed to be . And the strength feat of him sticking his hand underground and pulling roots shows that Lee still has considerable strength even with his weights on that exceeds every other prelim-character’s strength feats. Prelims Hinata’s not going to just block a Leaf Spinning Wind – she is not made of iron, and she doesn’t have any impressive blocking feats. This is a contentious claim that I’ll prove in the rest of my post. But, essentially, Lee’s fighting style remains effective in this battle, especially since prelims Hinata hasn’t mastered Jyuuken (i.e. Hinata and Neji are on entirely different levels in spite of that fight, and again, I will demonstrate this).

Also, obviously if Temari’s battle style revolves around swinging a giant iron fan, she’s gotta be stronger than average.

Finally, I’m not making it out to be this epic power kick that should bend iron and kick things halfway across the village. I’m emphasizing that Hinata isn’t strong enough to deal with Lee’s power, though, unless she can dodge (and she’s never dodged anything in Part 1, so I doubt this).

So now i'v proven that she has the body speed needed to contend with people wayyyyyy above weighted lee's taijustsu level. Hinata reacts to and trashes weighted lee the same way temari reacted to him and temari in inferior to hinata in taijutsu unless u think temari could trade blows with neji?
Again, there is no indication that Hinata has the same reactions as Temari. And saying Hinata doesn’t have the same reactions as Temari is not the same thing as saying Temari can trade blows with someone like Neji. Also, Lee’s body speed is nowhere near as low as you’re making it out to be.

Basically, no, Hinata does not do anything the same way that Temari does.

Its confirmed that lee needed to remove his weights and open gates in order to bypass neji's reflexes.

Obviously, Neji’s reflexes > Hinata’s reflexes.

Aside from that, you don’t know what exactly Gai was referring to here. He could have been referring to defeating the entirety of Gentle Fist techniques, which Neji was in the process of mastering. And (which counters anything Lee does that isn’t based on releasing a Gate). There’s nothing here that means Lee needs Primary Lotus to defeat Hinata's reflexes/Jyuuken.

In other words, it is not confirmed that prelims Lee needs to be unweighted to compete with Hinata. It’s only confirmed that Lee needs to be unweighted to deal with a Jyuuken master, Neji, which Hinata is not.

Most of wat u said here is irrelevant , we know that in order to keep up with people like lee in taijutsu u need fast enough body speed to react or else u get trashed instantly with no reaction to trade blows or anything , its the same with neji.
Lee has impressive body speed even while weighted; outpacing Sasuke’s reactions with 2T pre-cog requires body speed, because the attacks aren’t just based on movement-speed alone. In any case, Leaf Spinning Wind is a and weighted Lee’s So yes, weighted Lee has great body speed.

Basically, I don’t think Hinata has any counter to Leaf Spinning Wind. Either she does what Sasuke does and gets hit, or she gets hit by the first hit.

While hinata traded blows and almost caught neji with a glancing blow in the very first seconds of the fight when she was fresh.
If Hinata tries to attack first, the most likely scenario is that, Again, no way in hell does Hinata react to it. Even with Byakugan, . In other words, Byakugan’s insight is useless unless Hinata has the body speed to react. Again, gonna show that she doesn’t, in spite of her performance against Neji.

Nb4 neji was going easy on her , a glancing blow is all thats needed , neji would not allow himself to almost get glanced at the start which shows hinata's hidden prowes against the hyuga's genius.
You can call it what you want, but it’s not like Neji pulled out 64P or Kaiten for this fight. Maybe he didn’t have Kaiten yet, but I doubt that he suddenly learned both Kaiten and 64P between the prelims and the Chunin Exams.

Neosmith already pointed it out, but you misread this fight. The way this fight actually went is that at the start of the fight He obviously knew he’d done that, and that’s why And this allowed him to do things like not care about Hinata’s strikes anymore, because they were basically harmless. Even though Hinata kept fighting throughout, she’d lost immediately. She wasn’t truly “competing.”

Neji says nothing that indicates he estimates Hinata’s abilities as anywhere near his own. Even if that glancing blow meant anything, his estimate is still that The other ninja were only impressed by Hinata’s confidence and effort, not necessarily by her skill in comparison to Neji. No one said anything like "Her Jyuuken and reactions are on par/comparable to Neji's."

Finally, there are no feats showing that Hinata can actually counter Lee’s “Iron Fist” style. Blocking and parrying Jyuuken doesn’t require physical strength, because the attacks of Jyuuken aren’t based on impact damage. This is demonstrated by how even when Hinata lands a clean hit on Neji, it doesn’t do anything to him whatsoever without her being able to release chakra into his tenketsu. Hinata’s feats of parrying Neji’s Jyuuken strikes aren’t comparable to what it takes to counter Iron Fist, a style that does require physical strength to counter. In other words, Hinata has no feats to show that she can block Lee’s moves without taking damage. In fact, she never even truly “blocked” Neji (since he was hitting her tenketsu points during those trades). And she was never shown to dodge his moves either (whereas Neji did dodge Jyuuken strikes). Hinata’s body speed is actually more limited than you’re making it out to be, and is not actually all that comparable to Neji’s. Even if your argument that Lee needed Primary Lotus to deal with Neji's reactions was solid (I’ve shown that it’s shaky), Hinata’s reactions are nowhere near Neji’s (he landed many hits on her that she couldn’t even notice or react to in spite of having Byakugan active).

A glancing blow is only enough if Hinata hits Lee in a vital point. Hinata had been having been hit by many blows.[/URL]

Even if Hinata lands a hit on a vital point, Lee didn't mean a glancing blow was enough to end the battle. It's enough to do significant damage, Neji had made . Considering that Lee’s style doesn’t even need chakra releases to perform since it’s solely taijutsu based, unless Hinata lands a clean hit on one of Lee’s vital points, I doubt she stops Lee that easily. The strength of his attacks would remain, and if , including one to a vital area, then Lee can still remain a threat too. Keep in mind that this was a guy who was still trying to train after having his limbs crushed by Gaara’s Sand Coffin.

64P is the one-shot move. Prelims Hinata doesn't have it.

So in conclusion:
  • Temari's feats are irrelevant; Hinata does not have reaction feats that put her on the level of Temari's reaction feats.
  • Temari blocking Lee's kick with an iron bar says nothing about how Hinata would take a hit.
  • Prelims Hinata does not have true blocking feats; every time she appeared to block one of Neji's moves, it was actually Neji sealing her tenketsu points.
  • Prelims Hinata has no dodging feats or movement speed feats to indicate that she could just dodge Lee's attacks.
How this fight goes:
  • Option 1: If Hinata tries to initiate the battle (probably more likely in-character if she's been motivated, since she came at Neji after being motivated), Lee counters and launches the same way he did against Sasuke and follows it up with Shadow Leaf Dance (he doesn't need to go into Primary Lotus, he can just continue with a regular attack since Hinata is gonna be useless in the air).
  • Option 2: If Lee initiates the battle, he uses Leaf Spinning Wind. Hinata either tries to block and gets hit by the second part of the attack, or just gets hit.
  • Lee's strength/stamina is enough that he can just keep doing either of these things; Hinata doesn't have the movement speed to force Lee to have to do anything else. Hinata takes physical damage until she's incapacitated, or until her ability to use Jyuuken is no longer a threat and Lee can just finish the battle easily.
    Note: This is in-character for Rock Lee. He's pretty tactical when it comes to responding to an opponent's fighting style. Don't forget that Lee is a confirmed Taijutsu genius.
 
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BLAZE

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In other words, it is not confirmed that prelims Lee needs to be unweighted to compete with Hinata. It’s only confirmed that Lee needs to be unweighted to deal with a Jyuuken master, Neji, which Hinata is not.
this right here.Put Hinata against Prelims Sasuke or Prelims Base naruto and either of them violates her while Lee totally outclassed them in speed and reflex
 

neosmith500

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Thread is eradicated .;)

this right here.Put Hinata against Prelims Sasuke or Prelims Base naruto and either of them violates her while Lee totally outclassed them in speed and reflex
I think i made a thread about this topic way back , sasuke/hinata were placed in the same conditions they were in their respective fights and had manga intel.
 
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NarutoX28

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Baseless , kankuro saying that neji didn't use all his powers have no standing on his performance in taijutsu , also neji was serious and jyuken is a deadly style that can critically injure with a glancing touch so no way in hell would neji be goin easy on her in a tai fight which is why he shut her down then neged her , if it was straight jyuken Vs jyuken with no tenketsu attacks hinata could have likely pushed neji to mid/high diff which gives her more than enough prowess in gentle fist to end the vastly inferior lee.
Databook supports what Kankuro was referring to.

Neji has a 3.5 in Taijutsu and a 3 in Speed whereas Hinata has a 2.5 in Taijutsu and a 2 in Speed. Hinata is literally 2 tiers below Neji, so the fact that Hinata managed to fight somewhat on Neji's level is because he held back which is supported by Kankuro. You can argue, "But Kankuro stated he was hiding his powers ," but Databook contradicts your opinion regardless.

Neji did go easy on her and was far above her. Despite Byakugan's insight, Hinata couldn't even perceive Neji shutting off her chakra points before she landed a clean blow. The only reason Neji allowed Hinata to even hit him is because he already shot off her opening points. Gentle Fist is fatal, but that doesn't negate the fact that Neji held back as he didn't even target any vital organs during the fight. He merely shut off her opening points which diminished the effectiveness of her Jyuuken and when he actually wanted to finish the fight very quickly, he did this relatively easily:



Even look at their expressions:



Hinata is panting whereas Neji isn't which means Neji was holding back whereas Hinata was struggling to keep up.

Hinata still had the ability to expel chakra from her palms after the first clash in which she almost glanced neji , so ur wrong about him blocking her points before she almost landed a attack on him because she did so almost instantly which makes it more likely that lee gets glanced by hinata.


Please look at the diagram. It's illogical that Hinata's attacks had an effect on Neji when it's already established that Jyuuken deals a critical blow to even the most durable shinobi. Neji literally struck her opening points without Hinata noticing that her attacks had no effect when Neji allowed her to attack him. When he was done playing with her, he countered her strike and struck her chest.

Irrelevant due to the fact that we kno her persona held her back , she hardly believed in herself , the hinata ur reffering to is not the one I am , naruto's encouragement did more than u even realize , it gave her power. Why would she receive hype for not believing in herself and shying away from fights?
That doesn't refute anything I said. She received no hype or feats at all because she's viewed as both weak and irrelevant. Even irrelevant shinobi such as Dosu received hype because he's strong. Hinata is not and received no praise for her accomplishment which meant it wasn't anything too impressive.

Are u bein serious right now? ur reaching too hard , first lee didn't even kno hinata uses the same style as neji ,

Second , sasuke was an uchiha and top of his class , while lee already knew wat neji was capable of. As I said before the shy hinata cannot be used to judge how well she would do against lee.


And Lee states, "I thought so ...." meaning that he had a hunch that she could use it, but wasn't entirely sure. If Sasuke was top of his class, then that merely implies that he was superior to everyone in the academy and Lee just trashed him.
Lee not challenging hinata is literally the farthest u can try to reach , next to sayin that hinata has no hype due to her persona , why are my post so consistent yet urs are full of wrong and irrelevant things? lee snow knew ntn about hinata's dormant skill due to her soft persona , hardly anyone knew.
She has no hype due to how the author wanted to portray the character. Characters that were actually strong received hype. The ones that weren't did not. It's as simple as that. When did I claim that she had no hype due to her persona? I don't recall claiming that at all and that wouldn't even support my position regardless.

Implying that a non serious neji couldn't do the same to weighted lee with even less ease? , hinata actually almost had neji with a glancing blow , and neji not bein serious is baseless and foolish. Yes he never used all his powers but I already addressed that crap in my above points.
No she didn't because Neji blocked all of her opening points which I addressed is why Neji allowed her to hit him. He knew her attacks would have no effect because he already had done everything he needed to ensure that they wouldn't. Does Neji have some magical plot armor that protects all of his organs from Jyuuken?

Already addressed why Kankuro was also referring to Taijutsu.

Already proven ur crap wrong , hinata's chakra didn't shut off since she could still expel chakra so kindly do better next time k??
If she could, then Neji wouldn't have even been breathing.

I'll just summarize my thoughts really quickly.

Neji was far above Hinata because:

1. Neji could strike all of Hinata's opening points within her arm and Hinata couldn't perceive that despite having Byakugan's perception.
2. Hinata was panting profusely whereas Neji had a calm expression.
3. Hinata has received no hype or feats whereas Neji has. Even the strongest of the Chuunin Exams were threatened and Gaara was already anxious despite the fact that Neji held back.
4. Neji was the only one considered to be above Sasuke only due to his battle instincts and skill in using Jyuuken.
5. Neji was so far above Lee to the point where Lee needed a Kinjutsu to defeat Neji, that same Kinjutsu almost enabling Lee to defeat Gaara.
6. Databook supports the notion when Hinata is 2 Tiers below Neji in Ninjutsu, Taijutsu, and Speed.

Neji is far above Hinata, far above her and Lee trashes Hinata.
 
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The Arizen

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It doesn’t matter how much slower Prelims Lee is with weights on, since my original argument only ever used his weighted feats for reference. Nothing in my argument relies on unweighted Lee. Obviously unweighted Lee has insane speed. But we have plenty of weighted Lee speed feats that show that he remains fast in both movement and body speed (his attacks being too fast for 2T pre-cog to help Sasuke defend/counter = body speed).




Not the point , i like how u disregard the difference between hyuga style taijutsu and attacking speed in comparison to that version of sasuke's inferior taijutsu but ill get into that later.




I’m gonna be emphasizing this point a lot, but most of the K12 doesn’t have Temari’s reaction feats and speed. For now, I’m just going to say that Sasuke’s inability to react to Lee in spite of Sasuke having 2T pre-cog demonstrates that it takes high reaction speeds to be able to react to weighted Lee. I don’t believe that Hinata has that kind of reaction speed, in spite of her fight with Neji, and I’ll show why in the rest of this post.


Irrelevant , temari's reaction in cqc cant be compared to hinata's at all , same with 2t sasuke's inferior taijutsu and reflexes while in a taijutsu fight and im gonna prove it.

Hinata striking speed and quick reflexes in cqc gives her the ability to launch multiple attacks almost simultaneously in a much faster time span than it takes for lee to initiate leaf whirlwind. Each moment neji blocked one of her strikes she had already re-located her body to other area's with almost simultaneous intervals , also take note of the fast paced foot-work and how they correlate with my point about her quick reflexes while in straight up taijutsu bein superior to temari's and 2t sasuke.



In regards to Temari reacting to Lee's kick and considering it “pathetic”:

Temari and Gaara calling Lee pathetic is irrelevant. Of course both prelims Temari and Gaara consider(ed) Lee pathetic. They’re tiers above pretty much everyone else in the prelims (of course, they didn't know how strong Lee actually was), including Hinata and Neji. It’s also just an in-character comment to set up that everyone was underestimating Lee (i.e., it’s de-hype). Doesn’t have anything to do with Lee’s actual capabilities in a matchup with Hinata. Besides, it’s not like they were like “Lee is pathetic, but that Hinata girl is better.”



Bold makes this section irrelevant , ill show u why below.



As for Temari reacting to Lee’s kick: Temari's reactions are among the best in Part 1. Comparing Temari to Hinata doesn't really make sense to me unless you can actually show that Hinata's reactions are Temari-level. I know her of is an SRA feat (by the way, if you didn’t know, yeah, Temari reacted to soundwaves, and only CM Sasuke has replicated that feat). Still, there's nothing that happens in the Chunin Exams to indicate that her reactions are any slower. Tenten gets rekt offscreen; and Temari only ever gets caught by things she can't see to react to in her fight against Shikamaru – her reactions never failed. Temari’s reactions are consistently amazing. That Temari blocked Lee's kick doesn't make weighted Lee "slow."

Pretty much everything u said here is irrelevant. Hinata's reflexes in cqc , quick precise footwork and after-image leaving movements far exceeds chunin exams temari's ability to respond to lee's single kick . In the time span it took for temari to react to lee's kick hinata's could've already landed multiple hits or evaded it with ease due to her fast movementsand superior taijutsu and reflex speed.




Furthermore, the fan is made of iron. Hinata is not made of iron. The scan you posted highlights that Lee's fighting style is designed to be . And the strength feat of him sticking his hand underground and pulling roots shows that Lee still has considerable strength even with his weights on that exceeds every other prelim-character’s strength feats. Prelims Hinata’s not going to just block a Leaf Spinning Wind – she is not made of iron, and she doesn’t have any impressive blocking feats. This is a contentious claim that I’ll prove in the rest of my post. But, essentially, Lee’s fighting style remains effective in this battle, especially since prelims Hinata hasn’t mastered Jyuuken (i.e. Hinata and Neji are on entirely different levels in spite of that fight, and again, I will demonstrate this).




Also, obviously if Temari’s battle style revolves around swinging a giant iron fan, she’s gotta be stronger than average.


Bold is exactly right , she doesn't need to block it when she can evade it usin her much faster reflexes and attacks in taijutsu. The rest of wat u said is irrelevant.




Finally, I’m not making it out to be this epic power kick that should bend iron and kick things halfway across the village. I’m emphasizing that Hinata isn’t strong enough to deal with Lee’s power, though, unless she can dodge (and she’s never dodged anything in Part 1, so I doubt this).




Irrelevant , in the same way she attacks and maneuvers her body and feet with almost simultaneous intervals , she can simly evade and attack in between intervals.




Again, there is no indication that Hinata has the same reactions as Temari. And saying Hinata doesn’t have the same reactions as Temari is not the same thing as saying Temari can trade blows with someone like Neji. Also, Lee’s body speed is nowhere near as low as you’re making it out to be.

Basically, no, Hinata does not do anything the same way that Temari does.





Exactly , hinata's way is much superior due to her superior taijutsu and fast paced movement in cqc which is why i noted that temari could never move as quickly against lee's kick as hinata could , and her taijustsu form and skill is inferior by loads.








Aside from that, you don’t know what exactly Gai was referring to here. He could have been referring to defeating the entirety of Gentle Fist techniques, which Neji was in the process of mastering. And (which counters anything Lee does that isn’t based on releasing a Gate). There’s nothing here that means Lee needs Primary Lotus to defeat Hinata's reflexes/Jyuuken.

In other words, it is not confirmed that prelims Lee needs to be unweighted to compete with Hinata. It’s only confirmed that Lee needs to be unweighted to deal with a Jyuuken master, Neji, which Hinata is not.


I already covered this.




Lee has impressive body speed even while weighted; outpacing Sasuke’s reactions with 2T pre-cog requires body speed, because the attacks aren’t just based on movement-speed alone. In any case, Leaf Spinning Wind is a and weighted Lee’s reactions in the middle of battle allow him to change the direction of his attacks in response to blocks.[/URL] So yes, weighted Lee has great body speed.

Hinata's reaction in the middle of battle is vastly superior wat lee accomplished in ur scans making them irrelevant , lee has great body speed while hinata's has superior body speed in straight up taijutsu enabling her to make multiple almost simultaneous re-locational maneuvers in less time than it takes for lee to complete his whirlwind.




Basically, I don’t think Hinata has any counter to Leaf Spinning Wind. Either she does what Sasuke does and gets hit, or she gets hit by the first hit.

Nope sasuke's taijutsu and reflex speed in taijutsu is inferior to wat hinata has shown. She is fast enough to evade the first kick while almost simultaneously attacking him with multiple attacks in quick succession . Her taijustsu>>> that version of sasuke and her cqc reflex maneuvering is>>>>>>sasuke's also.






If Hinata tries to attack first, the most likely scenario is that,
Nope , hinata's taijutsu , striking speed , reflexes in cqc is superior to sasuke as i shown. Also sasuke merely ran straight into lee thinking his sharingan would enable him to react to his moves , much unlike hinata's fast paced attacks against the much superior neji.



Again, no way in hell does Hinata react to it. Even with Byakugan, . In other words, Byakugan’s insight is useless unless Hinata has the body speed to react. Again, gonna show that she doesn’t, in spite of her performance against Neji.



Already proven she can but ok sasuke is inferior and irrelevant here since he attacks slower , has inferior taijutsu style and slower reflexes while in a straight up tai fight.





You can call it what you want, but it’s not like Neji pulled out 64P or Kaiten for this fight. Maybe he didn’t have Kaiten yet, but I doubt that he suddenly learned both Kaiten and 64P between the prelims and the Chunin Exams.

Irrelevant since lee lacks those moves and this is basically straight up taijutsu , neji noting using his ultimate moves is irrelevant since her chose to use tenketsu attacks instead on hinata's jyuken.


Neosmith already pointed it out, but you misread this fight. The way this fight actually went is that at the start of the fight He obviously knew he’d done that, and that’s why




when Hinata “glanced” him, it did nothing to him.[/URL] And this allowed him to do things like not care about Hinata’s strikes anymore, because they were basically harmless. Even though Hinata kept fighting throughout, she’d lost immediately. She wasn’t truly “competing.”

BS the reason it didn't do anything was due to neji reacted and evading the glance , hinata still had the ability to channel chakra in that palm and that arm was only fully blocked in this panel , not before.

So u and neo need to learn to read and understand the manga before yappin.









Finally, there are no feats showing that Hinata can actually counter Lee’s “Iron Fist” style. Blocking and parrying Jyuuken doesn’t require physical strength, because the attacks of Jyuuken aren’t based on impact damage. This is demonstrated by how even when Hinata lands a clean hit on Neji, it doesn’t do anything to him whatsoever without her being able to release chakra into his tenketsu. Hinata’s feats of parrying Neji’s Jyuuken strikes aren’t comparable to what it takes to counter Iron Fist, a style that does require physical strength to counter. In other words, Hinata has no feats to show that she can block Lee’s moves without taking damage. In fact, she never even truly “blocked” Neji (since he was hitting her tenketsu points during those trades). And she was never shown to dodge his moves either (whereas Neji did dodge Jyuuken strikes). Hinata’s body speed is actually more limited than you’re making it out to be, and is not actually all that comparable to Neji’s. Even if your argument that Lee needed Primary Lotus to deal with Neji's reactions was solid (I’ve shown that it’s shaky), Hinata’s reactions are nowhere near Neji’s (he landed many hits on her that she couldn’t even notice or react to in spite of having Byakugan active).


All of wat u said here is irrelevant , hinata doesn't need to block or parry his taijutsu and i already proven she has wat she needs.


A glancing blow is only enough if Hinata hits Lee in a vital point. Hinata had been having been hit by many blows.[/URL]



Even if Hinata lands a hit on a vital point, Lee didn't mean a glancing blow was enough to end the battle. It's enough to do significant damage, Neji had made . Considering that Lee’s style doesn’t even need chakra releases to perform since it’s solely taijutsu based, unless Hinata lands a clean hit on one of Lee’s vital points, I doubt she stops Lee that easily. The strength of his attacks would remain, and if , including one to a vital area, then Lee can still remain a threat too. Keep in mind that this was a guy who was still trying to train after having his limbs crushed by Gaara’s Sand Coffin.


Hinata only got hit with two jyuken strikes and neji was not actively trying to kill her those times either , ****ing up lee's chakra network and internals is enough to instantly tip the rest of the battle in hinata's favor. The rest of wat u said is irrelevant.


64P is the one-shot move. Prelims Hinata doesn't have it.



Irrelevant.




So in conclusion:
  • Temari's feats are irrelevant; Hinata does not have reaction feats that put her on the level of Temari's reaction feats.
  • Temari blocking Lee's kick with an iron bar says nothing about how Hinata would take a hit.
  • Prelims Hinata does not have true blocking feats; every time she appeared to block one of Neji's moves, it was actually Neji sealing her tenketsu points.
  • Prelims Hinata has no dodging feats or movement speed feats to indicate that she could just dodge Lee's attacks.

Already covered evething.



How this fight goes:
  • Option 1: If Hinata tries to initiate the battle (probably more likely in-character if she's been motivated, since she came at Neji after being motivated), Lee counters and launches the same way he did against Sasuke and follows it up with Shadow Leaf Dance (he doesn't need to go into Primary Lotus, he can just continue with a regular attack since Hinata is gonna be useless in the air).



  • Wrong , by the time lee does this hinata would've already moved her body in multiple direction launchin mutiple attacks since her attacks speed and precise reflex speed in cqc is>>>>his.



    Wrong
    Option 2 If Lee initiates the battle, he uses Leaf Spinning Wind. Hinata either tries to block and gets hit by the second part of the attack, or just gets hit.

    Wrong , hinata's reflex in cqc enables her to easily deal with this tactic since she can literally make multiple reactions in the span of a panel. Lee's first kick is easily reacted to and with her striking speed and precision she easily lands multiple strikes on him in that interval when he has to re-locate by spinning
    to land the second kick and by that time hinata would've already struck him multiple times.



    [Lee's strength/stamina is enough that he can just keep doing either of these things; Hinata doesn't have the movement speed to force Lee to have to do anything else. Hinata takes physical damage until she's incapacitated, or until her ability to use Jyuuken is no longer a threat and Lee can just finish the battle easily.
    Note:] This is in-character for Rock Lee. He's pretty tactical when it comes to responding to an opponent's fighting style. Don't forget that Lee is a confirmed Taijutsu genius.
    The bolds are beyond laughable lol and i already proven u wrong on them , so yea hinata still wins.
 
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Claymantan

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Long story short, attacking speed is not the same thing as reaction speed. This is the last post I'm making on this topic, you can call in other opinions and see who people think is right. But the fact remains that Hinata has very suspect reaction feats. If you show me a solid one, I'll change my mind.

Hinata's reaction in the middle of battle is vastly superior wat lee accomplished in ur scans making them irrelevant , lee has great body speed while hinata's has superior body speed in straight up taijutsu enabling her to make multiple almost simultaneous re-locational maneuvers in less time than it takes for lee to complete his whirlwind.
Considering everyone could kind of perceive Hinata's motions, but no one could really perceive Neji's motions (no one saw him sealing her tenketsu), I don't think there's any way to say she has "almost simultaneous" body speed.

Nope sasuke's taijutsu and reflex speed in taijutsu is inferior to wat hinata has shown. She is fast enough to evade the first kick while almost simultaneously attacking him with multiple attacks in quick succession . Her taijustsu>>> that version of sasuke and her cqc reflex maneuvering is>>>>>>sasuke's also.
Gentle Fist is superior to Sasuke's taijutsu, but that's not the same thing as saying Hinata has better reactions than Sasuke.

Nope , hinata's taijutsu , striking speed , reflexes in cqc is superior to sasuke as i shown. Also sasuke merely ran straight into lee thinking his sharingan would enable him to react to his moves , much unlike hinata's fast paced attacks against the much superior neji.
Hasn't been shown, and I'll even add more as to why below.

Already proven she can but ok sasuke is inferior and irrelevant here since he attacks slower , has inferior taijutsu style and slower reflexes while in a straight up tai fight.
Since this can't be demonstrated with a reaction feat, this is just assumption. It remains that even 2T pre-cog, which should allow Sasuke to read the move faster than a Byakugan can, was not enough to allow him to react. So basically, there's a buffer. Hinata not only needs to have better reactions than Sasuke (unproven), but she needs to be able to perceive the move as well (unproven).

Irrelevant since lee lacks those moves and this is basically straight up taijutsu , neji noting using his ultimate moves is irrelevant since her chose to use tenketsu attacks instead on hinata's jyuken.
It is irrelevant whether or not Neji was going easy on her. But it remains that Hinata has no true reaction feats against Neji. He was mostly reacting to her strikes in this fight (she charged him both times they had trades).

The irony in the bolds is laughable really , it proves my consistency while u and neosmith cant even comprehend the manga. Hinata still had the ability to channel chakra in both her palms after that exchange.
There's a reason I specified "effectively." Yes, he hadn't sealed her tenketsu completely until just this last move. But her Jyuuken was still worthless before that. The glancing blow did actually hit Neji (literally everyone watching says it hit him). If her Jyuuken was still effective, it would have done something, because they point out that a glancing blow would still be enough. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The point is that Hinata couldn't react to any of Neji's attacks. She just thought she was.

The other way to read this is that she wasn't reacting to Neji's attacks; Neji was reacting to her attacks and parrying them. Hinata initiated each trade, and people thought she was in control because of the way the battle seemed to be going. Neji allowed her to charge him each time, and in the first trade, he simply sealed tenketsu points as she tried to attack him; in the second trade, he still allowed her to charge him before he decided to actually make strikes against her.

Basically, all Hinata's reaction feats are suspect, and she still doesn't have a single reaction feat that says she can react to Lee's moves that 2T Sharingan can't even perceive in time to react to (the changing of Leaf Spinning Wind's kick).

BS the reason it didn't do anything was due to neji reacted and evading the glance , hinata still had the ability to channel chakra in that palm and that arm was only fully blocked in this panel , not before.

So u and neo need to learn to read and understand the manga before yappin.
Already addressed this.

All of wat u said here is irrelevant , hinata doesn't need to block or parry his taijutsu and i already proven she has wat she needs.
She needs to react; she can't.

Hinata only got hit with two jyuken strikes and neji was not actively trying to kill her those times either , ****ing up lee's chakra network and internals is enough to instantly tip the rest of the battle in hinata's favor. The rest of wat u said is irrelevant.
Every single one of those sores on her arm is a separate Jyuuken strike made during her trades with Neji.

Wrong , by the time lee does this hinata would've already moved her body in multiple direction launchin mutiple attacks since her attacks speed and precise reflex speed in cqc is>>>>his.
No confirmed reaction feats.

Wrong , hinata's reflex in cqc enables her to easily deal with this tactic since she can literally make multiple reactions in the span of a panel. Lee's first kick is easily reacted to and with her striking speed and precision she easily lands multiple strikes on him in that interval when he has to re-locate by spinning
to land the second kick and by that time hinata would've already struck him multiple times.
The panel is not "an instant." People were able to follow the fight. I don't remember anyone remarking at some kind of imperceptible speed. The way the panel is drawn is to emphasize that they're moving fast.

The bolds are beyond laughable lol and i already proven u wrong on them , so yea hinata still wins.
I don't think you did; you can call in other opinions if you want.

Summary: We know Lee can perceive and react to things (like Sasuke trying to block Leaf Spinning Wind's second hit) even in the middle of his own attacks, so there's no reason to say he can't react to Hinata. However, we can't show that Hinata can react to moves because her fight with Neji has no true reaction feats (Neji was blocking and sealing her tenketsu the whole time while allowing her to rush at him). Even if Hinata's Gentle Fist is fast, without demonstrable reaction speeds, we can't say she beats Lee, who has demonstrable reaction speeds.
 
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The Arizen

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Long story short, attacking speed is not the same thing as reaction speed. This is the last post I'm making on this topic, you can call in other opinions and see who people think is right. But the fact remains that Hinata has very suspect reaction feats. If you show me a solid one, I'll change my mind.
Yes but i also mentioned attacking speed + body/movement speed which is a basic requirement if u want to contend with lee in taijutsu. My scan demonstrates extremely fast footwork and attacks in quick succession along with skill in jyuken , quicker than any of lees attacks and quicker than temari's physical reaction can handle in cqc the way she did against lee.



Considering everyone could kind of perceive Hinata's motions, but no one could really perceive Neji's motions (no one saw him sealing her tenketsu), I don't think there's any way to say she has "almost simultaneous" body speed.


Tenketsu attacks consist of small finger pokes , while in active fast battle u cant expect anyone to follow such parries. Its a testament to neji's skill and speed also the spectators were a good distance away and could not see such things anyway unless kakashi used sharingan.

Also fast paced body/foot movement and attacking speed in cqc is a regular attribute correlated to the hyuga's.



Hinata has shown the ability to move in almost as quick successions as neji , just check the footwork.

these fast paced reactions is why lee needed to remove weights and go gates in order to truly beat him. Hinata already has the physical body speed in cqc to make more moves and in less time than lee can and with her byakugan her the ability to perceive things in acute detail , boosting her awareness in cqc since the byakugan can also sense attacks. Dont even bother to mention hinata failing to sense neji's , since he executed them in parries , neji's reaction and striking speed is also wayyyyyyyy above weighted lee's reaction and body speed.


Gentle Fist is superior to Sasuke's taijutsu, but that's not the same thing as saying Hinata has better reactions than Sasuke.

Already proved that hinata can move in quicker succession than sasuke in cqc , its just the hyuga way and how they are trained.
With her byakugan she gains the edge over lee easily since she already has sufficient movement displays capable of evading his moves. Sasuke lacked the body speed while hinata has shown similar the same type of body speed which enables neji to pull feats like dodging kidomaros swarm of attacks tho he is obviously much superior , but then again thats the whole reason why lee needed to go gates in the first place so its irrelevant.





Since this can't be demonstrated with a reaction feat, this is just assumption. It remains that even 2T pre-cog, which should allow Sasuke to read the move faster than a Byakugan can, was not enough to allow him to react. So basically, there's a buffer. Hinata not only needs to have better reactions than Sasuke (unproven), but she needs to be able to perceive the move as well (unproven).


I already gave u scans showin her quick reactions , each time neji defended against a blow from her , she almost instantly re-maneuvers her whole body , following up with 3 other blows in a single panel.

Its so vital to also note the foot tracing illustrated in the panels , showing extremely fast paced movements which is a regular addition when neji is perform extremely fast reactons , or when usin 64 palms.

Hinata was spinning and weaving around at extreme speeds.


T2 Sasuke has never demonstrated body speed that fast in straight up taijutsu unless u have scans like i do.




It is irrelevant whether or not Neji was going easy on her. But it remains that Hinata has no true reaction feats against Neji. He was mostly reacting to her strikes in this fight (she charged him both times they had trades).


Which were shown to be faster than lee's attacking speed and body-movement speed in cqc , which u are sayin he will somehow use to easily tag hinata. Weighted lee takes multiple panels to execute his taijutsu and that only changed when he removes his weights.



There's a reason I specified "effectively." Yes, he hadn't sealed her tenketsu completely until just this last move. But her Jyuuken was still worthless before that. The glancing blow did actually hit Neji (literally everyone watching says it hit him). If her Jyuuken was still effective, it would have done something, because they point out that a glancing blow would still be enough. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The point is that Hinata couldn't react to any of Neji's attacks. She just thought she was.

Ur literally makin no sense now and reaching too hard , her jyuken in that arm was only made useless here.


Hinata was still able to use jyuken in that palm after the initial exchange and when the chakra is blocked , its simply blocked it doesn't go away then return , when its blocked its blocked meaning that hinata's jyuken was still of use , obviously since she still could channel chakra.


Also the only person who assumed hinata hit neji was naruto , not everyone , sakura only wondered if she did.
In that fast paced exchange bweteen the hyugas only neji/hinata and the readers would be able to see exactly wat happend and in their sakura and naruo's case it would be easy to assume he got hit UNlike in the case of us readers and the two byakugan users locked in fast paced combat.

So i'v proven that her jyuken was not useless unless ur gonna explain how it would be when hinata still could send chakra into neji's body via her palm , neji never took not one hit from hinata even when her jyuken was useless , he always reacted quicker than her.


The other way to read this is that she wasn't reacting to Neji's attacks; Neji was reacting to her attacks and parrying them. Hinata initiated each trade, and people thought she was in control because of the way the battle seemed to be going. Neji allowed her to charge him each time, and in the first trade, he simply sealed tenketsu points as she tried to attack him; in the second trade, he still allowed her to charge him before he decided to actually make strikes against her.
Irrelevant.

Basically, all Hinata's reaction feats are suspect, and she still doesn't have a single reaction feat that says she can react to Lee's moves that 2T Sharingan can't even perceive in time to react to (the changing of Leaf Spinning Wind's kick).
Already addressed.

Check again.



She needs to react; she can't.

With byakugan she has the means of detecting his attacks and sensing them.


Tho her body is much inferior to neji's she still displayed fast enough body speed to literally dance around lee attacks in taijutsu since she moves faster in combat , just look at the quick footwork in addition to the attack speed and then bring a scan with weighted lee displaying superior movement speed in taijutsu , ill wait.

Every single one of those sores on her arm is a separate Jyuuken strike made during her trades with Neji.
Your so irrelevant right now , obviously i meant efficient strikes aimed at areas meant to take down the opponent , the arm pokes went unnoticed and were basically painless unlike the two strikes i was obviously referring to.


No confirmed reaction feats.
Confirmed byakugan and body-speed feats.
The way she attacked neji in quick succession is a reaction feat in itself too as iv explained.


The panel is not "an instant." People were able to follow the fight. I don't remember anyone remarking at some kind of imperceptible speed. The way the panel is drawn is to emphasize that they're moving fast.
Such a weak logic , people never commented on how fast neji was moving and attacking naruto with 64 palms despite but we all kno the foot-word and arm-work is obviously fast as fckkk...


Using things like this are examples of a dying argument and i can use many more panels to further destroy this already weak argument if u dont concede.



I don't think you did; you can call in other opinions if you want.

What! the only opinions im concerned with are the people who quoted me and are givin their reasons on why they think lee wins , if im still able to counter those select few and debunk their aguments like in ur case then i could care less about the opinions of people sayin simple lee wins gg.
Summary: We know Lee can perceive and react to things (like Sasuke trying to block Leaf Spinning Wind's second hit) even in the middle of his own attacks, so there's no reason to say he can't react to Hinata. However, we can't show that Hinata can react to moves because her fight with Neji has no true reaction feats (Neji was blocking and sealing her tenketsu the whole time while allowing her to rush at him). Even if Hinata's Gentle Fist is fast, without demonstrable reaction speeds, we can't say she beats Lee, who has demonstrable reaction speeds.
Already addressed this all , come bring a scan showing lee attacking faster than hinata's byakugan can sense and faster tha her body can move. Until then hinata still wins.
 
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Claymantan

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Yes but i also mentioned attacking speed + body/movement speed which is a basic requirement if u want to contend with lee in taijutsu. My scan demonstrates extremely fast footwork and attacks in quick succession along with skill in jyuken , quicker than any of lees attacks and quicker than temari's physical reaction can handle in cqc the way she did against lee.
The debate is not whether or not Hinata has great body speed and striking speed. The debate is whether Hinata is capable of reacting to Lee's attacks, and whether Lee is capable of reacting to Hinata's attacks. Again, Temari's reaction to Lee's kick is irrelevant, because:

  • Hinata cannot be shown to have Temari's reaction feats.
  • Leaf Spinning Wind is a two-part attack.
  • Hinata does not have the durability of an iron bar.
I'm gonna restate this, because you called it...

Irrelevant.
...When it's not.

Claymantan said:
The other way to read this is that she wasn't reacting to Neji's attacks; Neji was reacting to her attacks and parrying them. Hinata initiated each trade, and people thought she was in control because of the way the battle seemed to be going. Neji allowed her to charge him each time, and in the first trade, he simply sealed tenketsu points as she tried to attack him; in the second trade, he still allowed her to charge him before he decided to actually make strikes against her.
Hinata reacting to her own moves is not an impressive reaction feat. She was attacking Neji, and whenever Neji blocked it, yes, she moved into another move. However, she has never reacted to being attacked, and has never dodged or blocked someone attacking her. Reading one's own attacks and responding and reading an opponent's attacks and reacting to dodge or block are not the same thing. Because obviously she knows when her own moves are being blocked. So it remains that there is no feat of Hinata reacting to being attacked.

Tenketsu attacks consist of small finger pokes , while in active fast battle u cant expect anyone to follow such parries. Its a testament to neji's skill and speed also the spectators were a good distance away and could not see such things anyway unless kakashi used sharingan.
Well then I can't expect Hinata to follow Lee's changes in movement mid-attack, which is how Leaf Spinning Wind works. The point is that in spite of Hinata having Byakugan, her proficiency with it is not such that she can perceive and react to everything she can definitely see.

Also fast paced body/foot movement and attacking speed in cqc is a regular attribute correlated to the hyuga's.

Yes, but Hinata is nowhere near Neji's capabilities.

Hinata has shown the ability to move in almost as quick successions as neji , just check the footwork.
Again, see the quote you deemed irrelevant. Neji is reacting to Hinata's movements, because she initiates each trade. Hinata is not reacting to or keeping up with his movements, except for when she perceives that he blocked one of her moves. Neji is much faster than he is moving in these panels. He is playing defensively, reacting to her attacks and sealing her tenketsu with each parry/block.

Hinata has not shown the ability to move in almost as quick successions as Neji. Therefore, Hinata does not pose the same threat to weighted Lee that Neji does.

these fast paced reactions is why lee needed to remove weights and go gates in order to truly beat him. Hinata already has the physical body speed in cqc to make more moves and in less time than lee can and with her byakugan her the ability to perceive things in acute detail , boosting her awareness in cqc since the byakugan can also sense attacks. Dont even bother to mention hinata failing to sense neji's , since he executed them in parries , neji's reaction and striking speed is also wayyyyyyyy above weighted lee's reaction and body speed.
Again, the quote you provided from Gai, about the removed weights and gates being needed to defeat Neji, has nothing to do with Hinata's lower reaction and movement speed. Firstly, I showed that you can't pinpoint exactly what Gai meant - if he was referring to Neji's speed, or the techniques that Jyuuken comprises. Secondly, Hinata is not Neji. This fight does not in any way demonstrate that she has talent on par with Neji. Just because Lee would have difficulty fighting Neji does not mean he would have the same or approximate difficulty fighting Hinata.

Already proved that hinata can move in quicker succession than sasuke in cqc , its just the hyuga way and how they are trained.
With her byakugan she gains the edge over lee easily since she already has sufficient movement displays capable of evading his moves. Sasuke lacked the body speed while hinata has shown similar the same type of body speed which enables neji to pull feats like dodging kidomaros swarm of attacks tho he is obviously much superior , but then again thats the whole reason why lee needed to go gates in the first place so its irrelevant.
She might be capable of evading his moves, but she cannot react to his moves to do so. Unless you can show a scan of her reacting to being attacked, it's irrelevant. Lee has been shown to be able to react and attack faster than a 2T Sasuke can react to. This is never going to be irrelevant. I am not saying Hinata is slower than Sasuke in body speed. I am saying she will not be able to perceive and react to Lee's attacks, because she has not a single feat of her reacting to being attacked and successfully evading or blocking it during or prior to prelims.

I already gave u scans showin her quick reactions , each time neji defended against a blow from her , she almost instantly re-maneuvers her whole body , following up with 3 other blows in a single panel.
Explained why this is irrelevant, and it doesn't matter if it's a single panel. Reacting to her own attacks being blocked is not impressive when Lee can react to someone attempting to block his attacks before his attack is even blocked.

Its so vital to also note the foot tracing illustrated in the panels , showing extremely fast paced movements which is a regular addition when neji is perform extremely fast reactons , or when usin 64 palms.
This point is mostly addressed above, but this also just emphasizes that the significant gulf between them here is canon. Hinata has nowhere near the footwork and reactions to use 64P until way later during the War Arc, whereas Neji is probably fully capable of it now. This just goes to show that Neji is performing nowhere near his full ability, and Hinata is not comparable to his reaction and movement speed.

Hinata was spinning and weaving around at extreme speeds.
So? This is only relevant if you can show that Lee wouldn't be able to react to her initiating an attack, or that Hinata can react to Lee initiating an attack.

T2 Sasuke has never demonstrated body speed that fast in straight up taijutsu unless u have scans like i do.
It's not like Lee was having any difficulty whatsoever keeping up with Sasuke's speed.

And we've kind of lost track of this but weighted Lee is not slow in any sense of the word. The only shinobi that has feats of greater speed than him at this point in the manga is CM Sasuke. I demonstrated this in my first post. If Hinata can react to her moves being blocked, I'm sure Lee reacting to catching leaves and moving greater distances than Hinata does with her footwork to catch other leaves, in addition to perceiving and reacting to an explosive tag placed on a squirrel and saving the squirrel before the explosive tag went off demonstrates very high reaction speeds. This "reacting to her moves being blocked" feat is not an impressive feat, again.

Which were shown to be faster than lee's attacking speed and body-movement speed in cqc , which u are sayin he will somehow use to easily tag hinata. Weighted lee takes multiple panels to execute his taijutsu and that only changed when he removes his weights.
Irrelevant, because:

A) Hinata's striking speed doesn't matter if Lee can react to her initial attack and she is unable to react to his own attack.
B) Part of the reason it takes multiple panels for Lee to execute his attacks against Sasuke is to show things like his moves bypassing Sasuke's guard.
C) The number of panels used to display a move taking place is also just an artistic choice. While it does emphasize speed, and Jyuuken's striking speed is undoubtedly greater than Iron Fist's, this is irrelevant if their reactions are on different levels. Lee's moves taking multiple panels to take place does not make his moves slow. You might as well say V2 Ay is slow because it took multiple panels for him to reach Minato during the Third Shinobi World War.

Ur literally makin no sense now and reaching too hard , her jyuken in that arm was only made useless here.


Hinata was still able to use jyuken in that palm after the initial exchange and when the chakra is blocked , its simply blocked it doesn't go away then return , when its blocked its blocked meaning that hinata's jyuken was still of use , obviously since she still could channel chakra.
It didn't "go away then return," it was ineffective. The . So she didn't miss. It's shown that she seemed to have gathered chakra in that palm, there's an impact effect on Neji's underarm, and the next panel makes it seem as though Neji was pushed back slightly (that isn't the pose of a dodge). If a glancing blow, as Lee states, is enough, it should have done actual damage to Neji. It did nothing. Therefore, her Jyuuken was rendered basically useless this early on in the match. Neji had nothing to fear after the first trade.

This is more evidence to say that nothing Hinata displays puts her on a level that is near Neji's and therefore, the claim that "Lee needed to remove his weights to compete with Neji's reflexes" (which remains suspect even without this additional evidence, since you can't show that Gai meant "reflexes") has nothing to do with whether or not Lee needs to remove his weigh

Also the only person who assumed hinata hit neji was naruto , not everyone , sakura only wondered if she did.
In that fast paced exchange bweteen the hyugas only neji/hinata and the readers would be able to see exactly wat happend and in their sakura and naruo's case it would be easy to assume he got hit UNlike in the case of us readers and the two byakugan users locked in fast paced combat.
I'm not talking about them thinking Hinata's hits were landing. I'm saying they thought Hinata was in control, . This is because I'm saying that Neji's strategy was defensive. Hinata was not pressuring him in any way, nor was she reacting to him trying to attack her. Neji's strategy was to parry her moves and seal her tenketsu in the process. In other words, there is no evidence that Hinata is capable of reacting to or attacking at speeds comparable to Neji; she can only react to herself. Therefore, her performance against Neji does not demonstrate that she is a threat to Lee which requires him to remove his weights.

So i'v proven that her jyuken was not useless unless ur gonna explain how it would be when hinata still could send chakra into neji's body via her palm , neji never took not one hit from hinata even when her jyuken was useless , he always reacted quicker than her.
Dealt with this above.

Check again.
I did. All you really did was convince me that Hinata managed to land a glancing blow (yeah, I realize I wasn't saying this before). But this still doesn't demonstrate that she was pressuring Neji, who had rendered her Jyuuken ineffective early on.

It remains that her reaction feats are not comparable to Lee's. Also, her reaction feats are entirely based on reacting to the completion of her own attacks. Even if her footwork is fast, it doesn't matter if she can't perceive and react to a move, and Lee's moves remain fast, even if you try to say they're not based on this idea of "it takes multiple panels to complete one of his attacks" (which I've shown is bad logic). I've already shown that her Byakugan has not been shown to help her react to attacks, likely because her proficiency with it isn't high enough.

With byakugan she has the means of detecting his attacks and sensing them.
Dealt with above; doesn't matter what she can sense if she doesn't register and react to what's happening. Detect and sense are the same thing.

Again, the issue here is reactions.

Tho her body is much inferior to neji's she still displayed fast enough body speed to literally dance around lee attacks in taijutsu since she moves faster in combat , just look at the quick footwork in addition to the attack speed and then bring a scan with weighted lee displaying superior movement speed in taijutsu , ill wait.
Yes, weighted Lee doesn't have the striking speed of Jyuuken. However, his body speed and attacking speed are not slow.

No, Hinata cannot "dance" around anything because:

A) Zero dodging feats.
B) No successful reaction feats to anything that isn't her own attack.
C) Lee can change the target of his attacks mid-attack, and you're nitpicking if you're going to start comparing how many "panels" (a non-existent measurement of time, as I've shown) it would take for Hinata to react and launch an attack before Lee's attack lands.
D) If she blocks, Lee's attacks are high-impact, and should logically prevent her from just shrugging it off and countering. In other words, her reaction speed lessens even more.
E) If she decides to attack first, there's nothing to say Lee can't react in the way I described against Sasuke. Again, weighted Lee's reactions remain fast.

Your so irrelevant right now , obviously i meant efficient strikes aimed at areas meant to take down the opponent , the arm pokes went unnoticed and were basically painless unlike the two strikes i was obviously referring to.
Then two Jyuuken strikes that aren't clean hits shouldn't be enough to put down Lee, since they weren't enough to put down Hinata. Either way, no stomp. But it doesn't even come to that because Lee controls this battle.

Confirmed byakugan and body-speed feats.
The way she attacked neji in quick succession is a reaction feat in itself too as iv explained.
Dealt with above. Reacting to her own moves being completed is not an impressive reaction feat, especially when Neji was playing defensively in order to seal her tenketsu. And I never denied the striking speed of Jyuuken. The fact that it takes place in one panel is irrelevant. It's an artistic choice to demonstrate the impressive striking speed of Jyuuken.

Such a weak logic , people never commented on how fast neji was moving and attacking naruto with 64 palms despite but we all kno the foot-word and arm-work is obviously fast as fckkk...
My point was that the fact that something takes place in a "panel" does not mean it is so much faster than a character who's actions take place in multiple panels. I'm not trying to argue that Jyuuken is slow. I'm arguing that weighted Lee is not slow, and that Hinata isn't miles out of his reach just because Jyuuken has great striking speed.

Using things like this are examples of a dying argument and i can use many more panels to further destroy this already weak argument if u dont concede.
I don't concede, because Hinata has no impressive reaction feats, no dodging feats, and cannot block an Iron Fist attack without consequence. In spite of her body speed being great, there is nothing to show that weighted Lee cannot react to her, since he has great reaction feats; furthermore, there is nothing to show that Hinata can react to someone attacking her.

Already addressed this all , come bring a scan showing lee attacking faster than hinata's byakugan can sense and faster tha her body can move. Until then hinata still wins.
I don't need to do this, because Hinata has no successful reaction feats to being attacked, and Lee has successful reaction feats to being attacked and someone attempting to block him. I am also not arguing that Lee attacks faster than Hinata does or that Byakugan somehow can't see him moving.

My argument is:
A) If Hinata attacks, Lee reacts, and Hinata gets hit.
B) If Lee attacks, Hinata doesn't react. Or, if she reacts, it's a block, and she still takes damage and then gets hit by something like the second hit of Leaf Spinning Wind.

The fact that his taijutsu beat Sasuke's doesn't put him on the level of Neji, obviously, but it remains true that Lee wasn't even challenged by Sasuke's speed. So clearly moves like his launcher are very fast, and are difficult to react to, because 2T did not help Sasuke. He can also execute them extremely quickly (his launcher took place in the span of a single panel, if that makes you happy, and he did it from a standing stance). Since Hinata is not comparable to Neji, the fact that Lee would likely have to remove his weights in order to compete with Neji has nothing to do with whether or not Hinata poses a challenge to him. And since Hinata has no reaction feats to being attacked, and does not have the benefit of pre-cog, then I doubt she can react to the speed of Lee's attacks.
 
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BLAZE

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Oh boy uses a match when Hinata herself said she was totally outmatched from the beginning [ ]
Using feat of a non serious Neji and making it look like he was serious and spoonfeeding it to Hinata [ ]
Ignoring that when match ended a non serious Neji walked out unscathed while so called Hinata[aka with naruto motivating her] was on verge of her death
Completely ignoring DB ranks Lee over Hinata in Taijutsu and Speed
Completely ignoring that Lee actually has feat completely demolishing 2T Sasuke while hinata has like Zero feats tbh Zero feats of speed and reflex in whole manga :|
 
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neosmith500

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Why didn't u make it p1 anime hinata, someone who is superior to even war arc p2 hinata since she actually has feats?

Clay brings some critical points and im sure ur not goin to concede so yea , my opinion on this debate is the same as this quote below .

This was a great debate with a lot of good arguments.
I could actually agree with the arizens points if hinata actually had feats of reacting to neji's attacks like in the anime along with her other moves and feats.
 
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Most of wat u said here is irrelevant , we kno that in order to keep up with people like lee in taijutsu u need fast enough body speed to react or else u get trashed instantly with no reaction to trade blows or anything , its the same with neji.


Lee bein able to dash around the terrain is irrelevant since when he gets into a taijutsu fight with hinata he gets lol stompted , he aint blitzin and his taijutsu aint beating hers while weighted down.


Hinata was capable of trading blows with neji , someone who is vastly superior to weighted lee in every department.


And even while badly injured and without jyuken was able to trade blows for a while with someone who would one-shot weighted lee.


Its confirmed that lee needed to remove his weights and open gates in order to bypass neji's reflexes.



While hinata traded blows and almost caught neji with a glancing blow in the very first seconds of the fight when she was fresh.


Nb4 neji was going easy on her , a glancing blow is all thats needed , neji would not allow himself to almost get glanced at the start which shows hinata's hidden prowes against the hyuga's genius.


So now i'v proven that she has the body speed needed to contend with people wayyyyyy above weighted lee's taijustsu level. Hinata reacts to and trashes weighted lee the same way temari reacted to him and temari in inferior to hinata in taijutsu unless u think temari could trade blows with neji?


So yea hinata stomps.




Lee bypassing sasuke's precog is irrelevant to hinata trading blows with neji , temari reacted to the same kick sasuke failed to with minor differences.
Neji parrying her is also irrelevant because we kno that neji's taijutsu skills and attaaking speed is way>>>>> un-wieghted lee's and hinatas and hinata was still almost able to get him in straight up taijutsu


Lee's physical power is ntn , its irrelevant to people like neji , hinata and temari , why didnt lee's so called epic power kick blast temari's fan into her face when she no diffed it with one hand , why did she call it pathetic?


I think u fail to understand how much slower lee is with weights , he went from bein able to blitz 2T sasuke , then to bein unable to blitz temari to makin temari piss her self lol..


Lee aint touching her without that level of speed and primary lotus , he reflexes against neji tells a different story a story in which lee gets stomped with a couple glancing blows loll


Dude hinata spanks lee with ease.

ur wrong about temari reacting to the same kick sasuke failed to do, when lee attacked sasuke with the exact same kick he used on temari, sasuke dodged it without activating his sharingan so lee rebounded with a second kick which is what knocked Sasuke down, Sasuke then activated his sharingan and got beat up some more

the point remains that sasuke dodged the exact same kick that temari blocked
 
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