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aloo

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Well Melo, that is indeed interesting. I was surprised at what Lord said as well. I beg to ask the question. Is Kakashi senju? I often wonder about his clan as we have little knowledge about them. We have not met anyone from Kakashi's clan. In Japanese history, when a ninja commits sepuku, the clan is dissolved. Is this what happend to Kakashi's clan? Why do I ask such a question? Melo pose that Madara needs a body of a seju for the moon-eye plan. I would have thought that his body will do. If it turns out that Kakashi is senju, then how come his body can't handle the Sharingan dojutsu better than Uchiha! Since his body can't, then he must not be senju. This will follow that Tsunada is the last senju in Konoha. What a turn of events is this turns out to be true. It will put a foil in Madara's plan. We know that PEIN had some bodies saved, I just hope that Madara didn't used that to his advantage and saved a senju body in Rain! We had not seen Tsunada fight! We see that Orochimaru was strong, but Jiraiya was stronger. What of Tsunada. Will we see her fight Madara, where he might try and take her body! LOL
That is one for jokes! There are many possibilities!
Aren't these guys senju too :sai::gai::sakura::naruto::tenten::kurenai:
Apart from these :hinata::sasuke::shino::shikamaru::kiba::ino: clan i thought others were senju.
 

sato4kaiba

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In the great war, other clans joined the senju. Close to the end, there are the other nations but senju (senju plus some other clans) joined with Uchiha to form Konoha. The reason why the Uchiha clan remained so pure is because there were purist! They married within the clan. This is the same with Nara, Ino, and Hyugua. Look into the history of the Third Hokage, and you will find that he too married into his own clan. Hence Asuma! From all that I know, there are very few that marry outside their clans. Asuma's and Kurenai's child, and Naruto. I can't remember if there are other. We mostly hear about orphans!
 

melo217

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well basing from madara's last statement when he met with naruto, yamato and kakashi, that he sees the senju in naruto. that must mean that naruto is senju, which is why his body can endure the kyuubi and the kyuubi's regenerative powers works so nicely in him. but what is more interesting is that this is also the reason why madara said he will make naruto and sasuke fight each other in the end.

one thing is remarkable in both uchiha and senju clans is that both clans seem to have very few descendants now. could this mean that there was a plan to eradicate them so that there would only be one of each that remain like the two brothers, the sons of the rikkoudo sennin? and then they would also be no more, as they would cancel each other out in an epic battle... and then they shall be one. in other words, madara is reversing the family tree so there can only be one, himself -- the reincarnation of the sage of the six paths.
 

sato4kaiba

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Melo, I like where your going with this chain of reasoning. I would agree. I take the words of Madara "I see the senju in you Naruto" as a figure of speech. So, the question that remains is, does Madara have to body to reincarnate the sage-of-old? Rik-koudo senin!

Tsunada was of senju. She was handed the necklace of the Shodai. Naruto was also able to wear the necklace of the Sodai. By induction or inference, choose the one that best fits, shows that Naruto is of senju. This will also infer that Minanto is of senju!

I will try my best to seek the known cases that show relations to senju. There may be more senju in Konoha that we thought! The funny thing is if its turns out that Minanto is indeed senju, why was Naruto an orphan? Why was there no senju to look after him. I know its not the same for Nara, Ino, Sarutobi, or other clans.

I hope and Lord will join us in this one Melo. It will be interesting with what we can discover!
 

melo217

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So be it, Sato, the hunt for the last Senju is on!

But before that, these are the most recent significant clues to Madara's plan:



Madara declares, "The powers of both Uchiha and Hashirama (Senju)... with them he can control the Kyuubi. (So) he is after Naruto, too."

Madara was able to categorically conclude that he and Danzo had the same plans.

It is interesting to note that the description of Danzo in the cover page of chapter 477 (page 1) states, "A greedy dictator/despot? Or a noble personification of a Shinobi/the Ultimate Ninja Incarnate?" Whatever the correct translation is (I leave it to you Sato) it refers to Danzo to one who is like the Sage of the Six Paths (who is most known and appropriately called "the ultimate ninja incarnate," "the father of ninjutsu").


Madara: "I like to stockpile good eyes."


Madara: "Everything will become with me. It will be a perfect union. I will be complete./To have everything become one with me. I mean to 'achieve a complete form', in which all are united."


Madara: I will revive/restore the Juubi. And I, myself, (like the Six-paths Sage) will become its Jinchuuriki."


Madara: "Controlling humanity within the Mugen (eternal) Tsukoyomi (as I reflect my eye on the moon: a combination of the rinnegan and many sharingans), I will become one with the world. A world without ill will/hatred or strife/conflict. Everything will be one in me. Everything will be united. That is my Moon-Eye plan."


Tsuchikage: "Make the world one, That sounds similar to what Danzo was saying earlier..." (But I can't find the exact panel where Danzo said this.)

So that's it. Madara wanted to be the 'reincarnation' of the Rikkoudo Sennin, and perhaps, Danzo as well. If Danzo has more or less the same plans as Madara, does that mean that he plan of being a new (the Juubi or at least the Kyuubi) Jincchuuriki also? It can't be accidental that their plans are similar, could it be that Danzo was able to know the secrets of the Rikkoudo Sennin? What is the rest of his plan that he left to the Roots to fulfill?


Danzo: "I'll do anything to survive. I am the only one who can change the world."
 
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venger

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if sasuke kills kakashi who will be hokage now?

if kakashi wins, will naruto kill kakashi?

or if saske is beaten, will naruto save him?

or if naruto see kakashi and sasuke fighting, what will he do? should he stop them or help kakashi kill sasuke.
 
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aravir

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uh oh, poor Sakura, she now know Sasuke's true feeling to her, by fact that Sasuke's chidori on the way to her back

however, she is going to stab Sasuke in flash moment before that, so that means Sakura don't love Sasuke anymore, or still love Sasuke but can't deal with Sasuke's evilness and decide to kill him for the sake of love
 

sato4kaiba

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Venger, very good points. I was thinking the same thing. I will love to know what Naruto will do in this situation. I hope that Sakura eyes are open not about Sasuke. There is no way he will go back to Konoha. I am getting the bad feeling that Naruto will end up killing Sasuke and give up being Hokage as he was not able to save him. There is also the possibility that he does save Sasuke and gives up being Hokage due to the fact he was not able to restore the Uchiha. For me this is idle talk. I am sure Lord and Melo will have more to say. RogueNin have beem missing in action and nightwizard is not to been seen.

I think this chapter was a little too short and I will reserve my thought until next week. I will continue the search with Melo to find the senju. If anyone have information about the history of Konoha and its clans please feel free to share.
 

aloo

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i guess nobody is dying here right. it would be lame to see on character die after another. If kishi actually decides to kill someone it would probably be kakashi. i hope it is not his time. Death of Kakashi would have a massive impact on the manga like those things that happen when a hokage dies (rival faction attacking(not the main one but terrorist like group))
Sakuras attempt to sasuke was like totally lame. Poor sakura, nearly got her arse owned XD
 

melo217

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MS vs MS. Now at last for the first time, we'll see a mangekyou sharingan vs another mangekyou sharingan. Dialogue winner -- Kakashi (to Sasuke): Why do you blame Konoha for Itachi's death, you killed him remember? This should be a good counter for that smart-ass rejoinder -- Sasuke (to Itachi's 'I don't want to kill you'): You say it like you actually could! Of course, this refers to both Kakashi's skill and nature (I now understand the Sandaime when he fought Orochimaru, he still loved him even as he needed to kill him).

I hope Madara's words are true about Sasuke's condition. because if it is, then Kakashi will sure kick Sasuke's dark ass, and then end his eyesight if not his folly or his life altogether. This time, we'll see how Kakashi has developed his MS since the last time we've seen him. We've seen Sasuke and Danzo show their formidable jutsus, now it's Kakashi's turn. And I don't think Kishi 'resurrected' Kakashi from being killed by Pain only to die again in the filthy hands of Sasuke. This is Kakashi's time to step up and be the Hokage...

Sasuke > Kakashi? Even if Sasuke proves to be stronger and would actually gain the opportunity to kill Kakashi, he will not prosper because Naruto will save him. No more shall Naruto allow another one of his sensei to be killed by a former student. So the fight between the two erstwhile friends is inevitable.

Sasuke vs Naruto part 2?
If Naruto and Sasuke meet and fight each other, then we shall see the MS vs Sage Tech, and then as a sort of climax, we shall see finally activating Itachi's gift to Naruto also. How exciting that would be! Especially for some of us who thinks this to be so soon.

Itachi's gift? Whatever that gift is, it is something that Sasuke would definitely identify as coming from Itachi. Then it would be Itachi vs. Sasuke. Finally and hopefully, Sasuke would understand fully who Itachi is and why he did the things he did. And then Sasuke wearied, battered (by all the successive battles he went through and then vs. another MS and Sagetech) and confused (because of Itachi's revelation) will come to the verge of another breakdown.

Madara interferes. At this point, it is most possible Madara would interfere again and whisk away Sasuke again from danger. In my opinion, there's no point at this stage in the manga that either Kakashi and Sasuke will die. They both hold important pieces in the myth of the sharingan. One is dark and the other the light side of the MS. They would fight to a draw and/or cancel each other out. But Kakashi is not only important for Konoha but also as the equalizer for two other MS wielders. He will prove to be the 'curse' of the Uchiha's hubris. Or the last of the active Sharingans that are not in Madara's collection.

Kakashi levels-up. In this fight, I hope Kakashi will get to see all of Sasuke's jutsus and suffer from them but survive so he'd be prepared in the future and develop further his MS because of this encounter. The last time we'd seen Kakashi battle against an MS (Itachi's), Kakashi was able to learn from it and then consequently develop his own MS. So we'd expect a Kakashi development here.

Karin in Konoha part2. Karin will play an important role in divulging the Moon-Eye plan of Akatsuki and the powers of Madara, Sasuke, and Zetsu. (And she will also have a 'thing' for Sai (albeit another passing fancy because of his semblance to Sasuke.hehe)

Not Sasuke? All three reputable chakra sensors who know Sasuke (Karin, Sakura, and Kakashi) concur that this is definitely a different Sasuke. I am now really positive that Madara did something to him (that jutsu Madara and black Zetsu did before taka attacked the kage's summit), it is to hasten and to exploit the darkness in his soul. that is what Madara was referring to when he said he'll 'speed-up' the moon-eye plan -- a plan that has sasuke as one of its major ingredient and requires that Sasuke reach the highest potential of his MS, and lose his eyesight so he would be forced to take his brother's eyes.

Moon-Eye Plan speed-up.
Now this Madara-Zetsu jutsu most probably is similar to what Madara did to the [third] Mizukage. Definitely this jutsu was what Ao was referring to when he mentioned what happened to his previous Mizukage, and what the present Mizukage was suggesting when she stated the rumors that the [third] Mizukage was being controlled by the Akatsuki. Unfortunately, we won't be hearing anymore from Kisame the reason why he called Madara the Mizukage. However, we get the idea already.

...
 
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roguenin

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~sigh~ Exams are finally over, thus I've done an update on Naruto.
Wish I didn't though... >.>

I don't think that i need to talk about the past chapters that i read today seeing that you guys did that, so I'm just going to stick with what's happening in this moment.

Oh...but i can't help say something about Sasuke's...stupidity!

I was amazed when he stabbed Karin along with Danzou, probably like most of us.But, then again, I thought "Wait..he told her not to move! Maybe he did so, so he can avoid any vital organ"

In the end, that proved to be just wishful thinking.

Regarding the last chapter, there isn't really much to say about it, but I have the feeling that whatever will happen during this fight will decide the outcome of all things.

venger said:
if sasuke kills kakashi who will be hokage now?

if kakashi wins, will naruto kill kakashi?

or if saske is beaten, will naruto save him?

or if naruto see kakashi and sasuke fighting, what will he do? should he stop them or help kakashi kill sasuke.
Depending on which option Kishi will adopt, things can get better or worse.

For a moment i doubted Sakura's true intentions. It's pretty hard to say what a girl in love will do when faced with the boy she loves(Well, at least what 15 years old brats understand by 'love' >.>). The one that surprised me here was Sasuke, though, and not Sakura.

He is falling more and more. Killing Sakura? Sheesh! I hate her, but ...come on!

Still, i also felt sorry for Sasuke and his misery, in which he succumbs without giving it a second thought.Each has his way of doing things after all.

The one i pity the most in all this...is Naruto.
 

venger

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now that danzo is dead will members of root be able to speak about danzou's plans especially sai

seems like kakashi still lack the intention to kill sasuke, on the moment he saw sasuke about to stab sakura he should have just cut off sasukes hand and talk to him.
 

sato4kaiba

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Moon-Eye Plan speed-up.
Now this Madara-Zetsu jutsu most probably is similar to what Madara did to the fourth Mizukage. Definitely this jutsu was what Ao was referring to when he mentioned what happened to his previous Mizukage, and what the present Mizukage was suggesting when she stated the rumors that the fourth Mizukage was being controlled by the Akatsuki. Unfortunately, we won't be hearing anymore from Kisame the reason why he called Madara the Mizukage. However, we get the idea already.

...
I think it was the Third Mizukage and not the Fourth that was controlled by Madara!
 

sato4kaiba

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Very interesting replies. I should just stay on the sidelines and listen to you guys. :)

I also have a strong feeling that Madara will come and take Sasuke from the battle.
 
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roguenin

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venger said:
should have just cut off sasukes hand and talk to him.
I think that talking to sasuke is not really an option in this moment. He is too wrapped up in his own twisted way of seeing things to actually listen to someone. Even if that someone is his former teacher.

In his curent state I doubt that even Naruto can reach him.

venger said:
now that danzo is dead will members of root be able to speak about danzou's plans especially sai
Now this is a thing I'm looking forward to see. Danzou and Roots are surrounded by a huge wave of mistery and Sai might lend a hand in clearing the fog.

venger said:
seems like kakashi still lack the intention to kill sasuke
I think they all do!!

Even Sakura. She was so...'determined' to kill him, yet she wasn't able to kill Karin, a person that meant nothing for her, a complete stranger :/
 
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sato4kaiba

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Spoiler!!!

So the anime made true a speculation true. Jiraiya is dead, and Naruto, Kakashi, and Tsunade don't know at this point. Now we know what PEIN did after the battle with his former teacher. It will be wonderful to see PEIN in action again before his death. We know from the manga that Naruto didn't know who PEIN was when he fought him in Konoha so its safe to say that Naruto will not see PEIN when he captures the 6-tails.

Interesting anime indeed!
 

lord8469

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I don?t really know what to say about this chapter, on the one hand I always wanted to see a serious confrontation between Sasuke and Kakashi, but on the other hand the timing of this fight couldn?t be worse. Sasuke has been on a marathon battle rampage for more chapters than I want to count right now. Kishi has been pushing Sasuke?s power level upwards ever since the Kage Summit.
When he had Danzo face off against Sasuke right after that, I thought it was a little bit much considering only a brief amount of time had passed since Sasuke?s last fight. But now we have Kakashi?s arrival, I?m thinking this is getting pretty absurd.

There?s a limit to how much power and stamina a character can have, and I think Sasuke should have surpassed his limits quite a while ago. Although it is not entirely clear, judging from the chain of events since the Kage Summit, I?m guessing only one or two days have elapsed. Let?s recap: Sasuke pretty much exhausted his chakra reserves after taking on all the kages. He had a short breather when Madara warped him away and allowed Karin to heal him before being brought back to defeat Danzo.
That?s five kage-level opponents in less than a day?s time, yet Sasuke is still standing and seemingly ready to fight Kakashi. So where did all this chakra and stamina come from? Throughout part 1, one thing that was clear about Sasuke and Naruto regarding their fighting levels was that while Sasuke was efficient and skilled, he lacked the huge chakra reserve Naruto possessed.

After all Sasuke is no Jinchuuriki, and it?d be too unbalanced if he was given both the talent and the stamina to fight forever. Remember when Sasuke first learned the Chidori? All he could manage was about two a day ? but the current Sasuke pulls off Chidori?s without a second thought. One could argue that he has become more efficient at using that jutsu through the 3 years of training, but I still find it difficult to believe he can manage to pull Chidori?s out of his ass after spamming Amaterasu and Susano?o for the last 20 chapters.

There?s two other things I don?t like about this fight happening now. One is that whatever the outcome is, nobody will be happy. If Kakashi manages to subdue Sasuke, Sasuke fans will cry foul because Sasuke is clearly not at his prime after just fighting Danzo. If Sasuke manages to kill Kakashi, Kakashi fans will cry foul because it?s insulting that a nearly exhausted Sasuke can defeat Kakashi at full strength.
My other concern is that the battle will be a protracted skirmish at best. With big daddy Madara always at the ready to warp his prized possession to safety and Naruto closing in fast, it?s unlikely that this fight will end with a decisive victor. Everything about the timing indicates that this is just a teaser battle at best.

Even when Naruto gets to the scene, I?m betting it will be a repeat of their last meeting at Orochimaru?s base with Sasuke being wisked away again. But I think this encounter with the new cold-blooded Sasuke is necessary for both Sakura and Naruto.
Think of it as a reality check ? something to steel their resolve. I think at the moment neither of them is ready to accept what Sasuke is becoming. Sakura?s hesitation to kill Sasuke in this chapter proves that memories of the Sasuke of Team Kakashi are still strong as ever. After this encounter, both of them will have to decide what they will do in the future.

No matter how you spin it, the current Sasuke is a criminal, a murderer, and a terrorist. He has crossed a fine line and the world wants him dead. Sakura has tried to face reality by coming here to kill Sasuke, but she lacks resolve. In the end, Naruto is the only one who can end Sasuke?s vendetta against Konoha, but when the moment comes, will he hesitate?

Everything else in this chapter with Sakura and Karin was pretty predictable. I just wished that Sakura could have come up with a better plan to kill Sasuke than with just a kunai. She disobeyed orders and lied to your teammates to get this close to Sasuke ? but all she can think of is to stab him with a knife. I mean, she has trained under Tsunade for three years, I would have thought she?d have something more to offer.
I thought Kishi was going to develop Sakura more this year, but so far he?s still treating her as a token heroine. I think that?s all I wanted to say this week.
 
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