[Predictions] Bleach Manga Chapter 609 Discussion and 610 Predictions

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Ultimateone

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This chapter tell me the opposite.

Yamamoto was said to have oldest zanpakuto overall, or oldest fire type zanpakuto. If he has oldest zanpakuto overall than it's pretty clear who is older. If he only has fire type zanpakuto than it's pretty much the same since fire type zanpakutos are mostly used zanpakutos. In both, Yamamoto is one of the first shinigamis that get their zanpakutos.

Ichibei implied in this chapter that before him bankai was called different, which mean that there were a lot of bankais before he learned his.
well, nimaiyo is the creator of the zanpakuto. since he himself is a shinigami, it only makes sense that he would have had the first zanpakuto. also, they call yama's blade ancient, never the first. actually we haven't seen many fire type zanpakuto at all.

ichibei doesn't even call bankai, bankai. which gives the impression that he is used to calling it "true strike" or whatever the chapter called it, or simply referring to it as the evolved form of the zanpakuto. he made a point to say kids now a days call it bankai. meaning that he later decided to name it this. nothing in what was said gives the impression that there were many bankai before he learned his. just that he didn't name it until much later.
 

Forbidden Tale

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well, nimaiyo is the creator of the zanpakuto. since he himself is a shinigami, it only makes sense that he would have had the first zanpakuto. also, they call yama's blade ancient, never the first. actually we haven't seen many fire type zanpakuto at all.

ichibei doesn't even call bankai, bankai. which gives the impression that he is used to calling it "true strike" or whatever the chapter called it, or simply referring to it as the evolved form of the zanpakuto. he made a point to say kids now a days call it bankai. meaning that he later decided to name it this. nothing in what was said gives the impression that there were many bankai before he learned his. just that he didn't name it until much later.
When it comes to first there are three possibilities:
- Yamamoto was on higher authority than Oetsu and for that reason got first zanpakuto.
- Yamamoto didn't got first zanpakuto, but still his zanpakuto is one of oldest.
- Oetsu's zanpakuto and Yamamoto's zanpakuto is not same. Since Oetsu didn't really explained his zanpakuto. Japanese translator say that when he say "Sayabusa" it's not name of his zanpakuto like Ryujin Jakka or Kyoka Suigetsu, but that is different type of Asauchi.

There are Yama's, HInamori's, Isshin's and Love's zanpakuto. 4 Fire type zanapkuto, there is no type with more zanpakuto.

He refer to it as envolved form, because it was ancient name for it, before he renamed it to bankai. Since he is the guy who name things, he would give name momentally bankai. Just for the fact that it first had fake name, tell you that there were bankais before his. Beceuse if there weren't, name would never be envolved form.
 

Beetle

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Ichibei's powers are OP as hell, and I'm not sure I understand how Juha Bach tanked it. I can only guess it's his unique power to transfer power from himself to others and vice versa. So he basically just sent them away while his powers were removed, then restored them. Just my theory.

Anyways this chapter pretty much confirms Ichibei > Yamamoto. The monk's bankai essentially allows him to set the powers of his opponent and/or their zanpakto. I'm not sure how you would avoid this unless you do what I think Juha did, use hogyoku, or possibly just negate it with massive reishi/reiatsu.
 

kotoamatsukami

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Ichibei's powers are OP as hell, and I'm not sure I understand how Juha Bach tanked it. I can only guess it's his unique power to transfer power from himself to others and vice versa. So he basically just sent them away while his powers were removed, then restored them. Just my theory.

Anyways this chapter pretty much confirms Ichibei > Yamamoto. The monk's bankai essentially allows him to set the powers of his opponent and/or their zanpakto. I'm not sure how you would avoid this unless you do what I think Juha did, use hogyoku, or possibly just negate it with massive reishi/reiatsu.
Naw he can't touch yama
 

Forbidden Tale

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Anyways this chapter pretty much confirms Ichibei > Yamamoto. The monk's bankai essentially allows him to set the powers of his opponent and/or their zanpakto. I'm not sure how you would avoid this unless you do what I think Juha did, use hogyoku, or possibly just negate it with massive reishi/reiatsu.
I actually think pretty opposite. Yamamoto > Ichibei.

For some reason Yhwach also couldn't see future with Yamamoto. He wasn't aware of his Full powered bankai. He was able to do that with Ichibei. He also leave Royd to fight Yamamoto, instead of facing him in 1 vs 1.

While, Ichibei surprised me, well, I would still say that Yamamoto is little stronger, not by much.
 

kotoamatsukami

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I actually think pretty opposite. Yamamoto > Ichibei.

For some reason Yhwach also couldn't see future with Yamamoto. He wasn't aware of his Full powered bankai. He was able to do that with Ichibei. He also leave Royd to fight Yamamoto, instead of facing him in 1 vs 1.

While, Ichibei surprised me, well, I would still say that Yamamoto is little stronger, not by much.
Well no he actually told all sternritter to do nothig to Yama untill he showed up.
 

SoulKiller

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i am going to say that yamamoto and ichibie are extremely close in term of power and both are extremely OP!!!! i would make it a tie. since i can't decide who beats who.
 

Summer

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it says it right here and on a few others.
And yet aizen says it is the strongest



So somewhere in the midst of all kubo tite's translations there will always be a dilemma of who's right and who's wrong.
Personally I like to think that old man yama's zanpakutou is the strongest in the gotei13 but that does not include anybody not in the gotei. Just my assumption!
 

Forbidden Tale

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Well no he actually told all sternritter to do nothig to Yama untill he showed up.
I don't see how that change anything I said here.

Yhwach already knew Yama's partial bankai from 1000 years ago. But when Yamamoto used his full bankai, RoydYhwach was surprised. If Yhwach knew about full bankai, YhwachRoyd (who copied Yhwach) would know about his full power, but he was surprised.

---

About Yama's zanpakuto debate:

The best translation I got is:

君のRYUJINJAKKAは最強のZANPAKUTOそれは間違い無い。
There is no doubt that your Ryujin Jakka is the strongest Zanpakuto.

Well, Aizen never said that it is in SS. It is separeted from Seiretei and Rukongai but it's still part of Soul Society.
 
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Ultimateone

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And yet aizen says it is the strongest



So somewhere in the midst of all kubo tite's translations there will always be a dilemma of who's right and who's wrong.
Personally I like to think that old man yama's zanpakutou is the strongest in the gotei13 but that does not include anybody not in the gotei. Just my assumption!
well, i guess we won't know if it's suppose to be the strongest or the strongest fire type. to me, it seems presumptuous to claim one zanpakuto the strongest when there are so many different types that have their advantages over the other. for instance, technically if that one visord that uses music cold actually beat yama if he hears the final song. no matter how powerful yama's bankai is, unless he breaks his eardrums, he'll die when he here's that song. or he takes him out before he starts the songs. which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the power of a particular zanpakuto in that case. that's the way i see it anyways.
 
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