[Discussion] Blackbeard or akainu

[Punk Hazard]

Which I would say is more comedic moment.

Aokiji let Straw Hats escape two times in the row.

I agree. And is Kage same level as Jonin?

Doesn't matter. It still displays ineptness, the kind a FA can't afford to have. Placing a man who can't tell the difference between Den Den Mushi apart as the head of the military force of the world's biggest organization? Does that sound like a good idea to you?

He did that because of his own moral sense. He had a legit reason for it. Kizaru did it literally for no reason.

Not quite the same. Most of the Jonin we have seen are complete fodder compared to the top tiers. Admirals and Fleet Admiral are within the same range of power.

 

[ToshiZO]

Which I would say is more comedic moment.

Aokiji let Straw Hats escape two times in the row.

I agree. And is Kage same level as Jonin?

Tsunade was a Kage when Kakashi and Gai were around.
Kakashi became Kage without his sharingan.
Shikamaru has been said to be capable of being the Hokage if he wanted.

Sengoku was FA when Garp was around.

Aokiji matched Sengoku's agenda, Akainu matched Goroseis agenda.

Fleet Admiral isn't selected for his strength, that is the selection for the rank of an Admiral. Fleet Admiral is selected for his ability to lead and make decisions.

Lets say Aokiji was made FA without interruption from Gorosei. Would you call Aokiji > Akainu?

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Doesn't matter. It still displays ineptness, the kind a FA can't afford to have. Placing a man who can't tell the difference between Den Den Mushi apart as the head of the military force of the world's biggest organization? Does that sound like a good idea to you?

He did that because of his own moral sense. He had a legit reason for it. Kizaru did it literally for no reason.

Not quite the same. Most of the Jonin we have seen are complete fodder compared to the top tiers. Admirals and Fleet Admiral are within the same range of power.

Let's bring Luffy. Luffy is stupid, but he is a captain. To be even worse he will become Pirate King (axiom).

Okay, I checked. I don't see why they can't just be out of range of Kizaru's attack, instead of he just stopped.

I disagree with Admiral and FA being in the same range of power. Yeah, not much difference between as Kage and fodder Jonin, but still the difference.

Tsunade was a Kage when Kakashi and Gai were around.

Kakashi and Guy were also kage level shinobis.

Kakashi became Kage without his sharingan.

So? I say Kakashi is Kage level shinobi without sharingan.

Shikamaru has been said to be capable of being the Hokage if he wanted.

In future, why not? Why couldn't he got stronger and become hokage level shinobi.

Sengoku was FA when Garp was around.

Garp is on FA level.

Aokiji matched Sengoku's agenda, Akainu matched Goroseis agenda.

Fleet Admiral isn't selected for his strength, that is the selection for the rank of an Admiral. Fleet Admiral is selected for his ability to lead and make decisions.

Lets say Aokiji was made FA without interruption from Gorosei. Would you call Aokiji > Akainu?

Yes I would. Until we see more of them both, to make better opinion. When we see both of their power, I would say Akainu (Admiral) is stronger than Aokiji (FA), just like I say:

Kakashi, GUy > Tsunade or Garp > Sengoku

 

[Punk Hazard]

Let's bring Luffy. Luffy is stupid, but he is a captain. To be even worse he will become Pirate King (axiom).

Okay, I checked. I don't see why they can't just be out of range of Kizaru's attack, instead of he just stopped.

I disagree with Admiral and FA being in the same range of power. Yeah, not much difference between as Kage and fodder Jonin, but still the difference.



Kakashi and Guy were also kage level shinobis.



So? I say Kakashi is Kage level shinobi without sharingan.



In future, why not? Why couldn't he got stronger and become hokage level shinobi.



Garp is on FA level.



Yes I would. Until we see more of them both, to make better opinion. When we see both of their power, I would say Akainu (Admiral) is stronger than Aokiji (FA), just like I say:

Kakashi, GUy > Tsunade or Garp > Sengoku

You're comparing Luffy's nine man crew where the captain tells them to do what they know how to do and where the Navigator helps him give orders to a military force stretching into the thousands of the world's biggest organization?

You really think you can past an Admiral by just rushing past their range? Theres also the fact Kizaru can float over the water in his light form and continue attacking.

Let's compare an Admiral's feat to a Fleet Admiral's using one common factor: Luffy. When Kizaru kicked Luffy, it left Luffy stunned momentarily, but he was able to continue fighting. When Sengoku punched Luffy, it left him momentarily stunned but he was able to keep moving. Funny how Sengoku, being Fleet Admiral, accomplished no better than the Admiral who wasn't nominated for Fleet Admiral when they attempted the same action. Hmm.

 

[ToshiZO]

Kakashi and Guy were also kage level shinobis.



So? I say Kakashi is Kage level shinobi without sharingan.



In future, why not? Why couldn't he got stronger and become hokage level shinobi.



Garp is on FA level.



Yes I would. Until we see more of them both, to make better opinion. When we see both of their power, I would say Akainu (Admiral) is stronger than Aokiji (FA), just like I say:

Kakashi, GUy > Tsunade or Garp > Sengoku

Yup and this is contradicting your post. Because Kakashi and Gai were Jonins. Whatever imaginary level the fans have them at is not their rankings. It holds true Kakashi was a Jonin when Tsunade was a Kage. Gai never became a kage thus his whole life he's been a Jonin.

Without even realizing you basically agreed with me. This is why FA means nothing more than Admiral when it comes to strength.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

You're comparing Luffy's nine man crew where the captain tells them to do what they know how to do and where the Navigator helps him give orders to a military force stretching into the thousands of the world's biggest organization?

You really think you can past an Admiral by just rushing past their range? Theres also the fact Kizaru can float over the water in his light form and continue attacking.

Let's compare an Admiral's feat to a Fleet Admiral's using one common factor: Luffy. When Kizaru kicked Luffy, it left Luffy stunned momentarily, but he was able to continue fighting. When Sengoku punched Luffy, it left him momentarily stunned but he was able to keep moving. Funny how Sengoku, being Fleet Admiral, accomplished no better than the Admiral who wasn't nominated for Fleet Admiral when they attempted the same action. Hmm.

No. I am saying that someone "stupid" will become PK.

Are you talking about Yata no Kagami?

Okay, let's say Zoro cut Luffy at their levels when they were on MF. Luffy's body is not immune to swords, so he will be cut. Does that mean Zoro is above Sengoku? No that just mean that Luffy is immune to Sengoku's attack (was hit by his hand) and was hit by Kizaru's light.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Yup and this is contradicting your post. Because Kakashi and Gai were Jonins. Whatever imaginary level the fans have them at is not their rankings. It holds true Kakashi was a Jonin when Tsunade was a Kage. Gai never became a kage thus his whole life he's been a Jonin.

Without even realizing you basically agreed with me. This is why FA means nothing more than Admiral when it comes to strength.

It seems you don't know what "contradiction" is. If I agrued that one Admiral can't be above FA, and said what I said then it would be contradiction. I haven't said that Aokiji/Akainu were weaker during MF, then Sengoku, did I?

Nope, that's one more why I haven't contradicted what I said, Kakashi/Guy/Naruto were stronger than Tsunade while she was Hokage.

 

[ToshiZO]

It seems you don't know what "contradiction" is. If I agrued that one Admiral can't be above FA, and said what I said then it would be contradiction. I haven't said that Aokiji/Akainu were weaker during MF, then Sengoku, did I?

Nope, that's one more why I haven't contradicted what I said, Kakashi/Guy/Naruto were stronger than Tsunade while she was Hokage.

haha you're making no sense at all I hope you realize that. This is just proving my point that Kizaru(Admiral) is not weaker than FA.

Just like Kakashi(Jonin) Gai(jonin) are not weaker than Kage (Tsunade).

Let me put this in bold for you: Ranks (Kage/FA) Dont necessarily put you ahead of characters ranked below (Jonin/Admiral)

Physical strength is just one of many factors when considering Kage and FA.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

haha you're making no sense at all I hope you realize that. This is just proving my point that Kizaru(Admiral) is not weaker than FA.

Just like Kakashi(Jonin) Gai(jonin) are not weaker than Kage (Tsunade).

Let me put this in bold for you: Ranks (Kage/FA) Dont necessarily put you ahead of characters ranked below (Jonin/Admiral)

Physical strength is just one of many factors when considering Kage and FA.

With witch I agree that don't necessarily put you ahead, but some characters' strength can be above of what their position is.

 

[Punk Hazard]

No. I am saying that someone "stupid" will become PK.

Are you talking about Yata no Kagami?

Okay, let's say Zoro cut Luffy at their levels when they were on MF. Luffy's body is not immune to swords, so he will be cut. Does that mean Zoro is above Sengoku? No that just mean that Luffy is immune to Sengoku's attack (was hit by his hand) and was hit by Kizaru's light.

So?

No, Yasaka no Magatama

Nope. Zoro's cut wouldn't do the same thing Kizaru's kick or Sengoku's blow did. Luffy was not immune, his eyes went white and he spit out blood. Sengoku has Haki, and Luffy has shown to be able to take damage from shockwaves, such as the Impact Dial and Lucci's Rokougan. When hit by Sengoku's attack, Luffy spit up some blood and was momentarily stunned. The same thing happened when Kizaru kicked Luffy.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

So?

No, Yasaka no Magatama

Nope. Zoro's cut wouldn't do the same thing Kizaru's kick or Sengoku's blow did. Luffy was not immune, his eyes went white and he spit out blood. Sengoku has Haki, and Luffy has shown to be able to take damage from shockwaves, such as the Impact Dial and Lucci's Rokougan. When hit by Sengoku's attack, Luffy spit up some blood and was momentarily stunned. The same thing happened when Kizaru kicked Luffy.

Stupid guy will become 'Pirate King'. But even if I agree on that -which I am not sure do I agree - I still think that one comedic moment is enough to call someone stupid.

What? Yasakani no Magatama is technique he used on Law's submarine, not tecnique he used to travel.

So what's the problem then? Sengoku damaged Luffy, even in disadvantage, considering Luffy is immune to ordinary punches.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Stupid guy will become 'Pirate King'. But even if I agree on that -which I am not sure do I agree - I still think that one comedic moment is enough to call someone stupid.

What? Yasakani no Magatama is technique he used on Law's submarine, not tecnique he used to travel.

So what's the problem then? Sengoku damaged Luffy, even in disadvantage, considering Luffy is immune to ordinary punches.

Once again, so what? I'm not seeing your point.

A comedic moment caused by stupidity means stupidity.

There is no technique that lets him float. He can passively do it and then use it in tandem with Magatama.

Kizaru and Sengoku did the same damage when they struck Luffy, showing their combat is on par.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Once again, so what? I'm not seeing your point.

A comedic moment caused by stupidity means stupidity.

There is no technique that lets him float. He can passively do it and then use it in tandem with Magatama.

Kizaru and Sengoku did the same damage when they struck Luffy, showing their combat is on par.

Are you even keeping a track of what you are saying?

1. No, it means comedic moment.
2. What you said: "Theres also the fact Kizaru can float over the water in his light form and continue attacking."
I will then ask what made you think that they weren't out of the range for Kizaru to float over to them.
3. The problem is that Luffy is immune to punchs and Sengoku did damage him with punchs, with actually say they are not on par.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Are you even keeping a track of what you are saying?

1. No, it means comedic moment.
2. What you said: "Theres also the fact Kizaru can float over the water in his light form and continue attacking."
I will then ask what made you think that they weren't out of the range for Kizaru to float over to them.
3. The problem is that Luffy is immune to punchs and Sengoku did damage him with punchs, with actually say they are not on par.

I don't understand what Luffy becoming Pirate King has to do with his intelligence or Kizaru's intelligence.

I assumed you're saying Luffy will achieve the strength of Pirate King despite being an idiot, which would be a disastrous argument for you to make. I was asking what your point is because I wanted to be sure what you're saying before I make an argument. Obviously, if I am asking you what your point is, then I have failed to understand what it is, which is the part where you explain.

1.Once again, no, a comedic moment caused by stupidity means stupidity. Luffy's stupid moments are all done for comedy, if Luffy really a genius? Is stupidity no longer a defining character trait for him even because Oda does it for humor?

2. Do you really think it's that easy to avoid an Admiral, especially at the level Law and his crew were at that time? Just run for a few seconds, cross a few meters, and you're good?

3. Luffy is also immune to kicks, so his immunity to being punched doesn't reduce this comparison.

Sengoku could have used Haki, as would Kizaru. I also like that you ignored that Luffy has shown to not be immune to shockwaves, which is what Sengoku releases in his Buddha form when he strikes.

 

[Tantalus Thief]

I go with Blackbeard

 

[ToshiZO]

With witch I agree that don't necessarily put you ahead, but some characters' strength can be above of what their position is.

This is why I'm saying Kizaru not being recommended for FA doesn't mean he is below Aokiji and Akainu. So you agree.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

I don't understand what Luffy becoming Pirate King has to do with his intelligence or Kizaru's intelligence.

I assumed you're saying Luffy will achieve the strength of Pirate King despite being an idiot, which would be a disastrous argument for you to make. I was asking what your point is because I wanted to be sure what you're saying before I make an argument. Obviously, if I am asking you what your point is, then I have failed to understand what it is, which is the part where you explain.

Forget it -.-

1.Once again, no, a comedic moment caused by stupidity means stupidity. Luffy's stupid moments are all done for comedy, if Luffy really a genius? Is stupidity no longer a defining character trait for him even because Oda does it for humor?

You are comparing one comedic moment with a lot of comedic moments, which is different.

I know a lot people calling smartphones - TV, which doesn't prove they are stupid.

2. Do you really think it's that easy to avoid an Admiral, especially at the level Law and his crew were at that time? Just run for a few seconds, cross a few meters, and you're good?

Yes, I don't think why it would be a problem.

You don't know how fast submarine is. Kizaru needed to stand on cannon ball in order to arrive at Saobady, he haven't used his devil fruit powers to gets there, which means he has the range.

Also, if i remember correctly, Kizaru wasn't sure did he hit them, and said "if they weren't hit, then lack was on their side".

Also in other thread it was posted one

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.

So someone like that was candidate for FA, but Kizaru wasn't,

3. Luffy is also immune to kicks, so his immunity to being punched doesn't reduce this comparison.

Sengoku could have used Haki, as would Kizaru. I also like that you ignored that Luffy has shown to not be immune to shockwaves, which is what Sengoku releases in his Buddha form when he strikes.

Haki works against Logia, not paramecia. Mihawk could have used haki against Buggy, still Buggy was pretty right.

This is why I'm saying Kizaru not being recommended for FA doesn't mean he is below Aokiji and Akainu. So you agree.

I agree that admiral can be stronger than FA, but I am not agreeing with that in Kizaru's case. I could see Akainu or Aokiji being stronger than Sengoku during MF.

 

[Main I]

Yes, I don't think why it would be a problem.

Okay, now you're just being silly.

 

[ToshiZO]

I agree that admiral can be stronger than FA, but I am not agreeing with that in Kizaru's case. I could see Akainu or Aokiji being stronger than Sengoku during MF.

exactly, which is what I was trying to say since the beginning this is just your opinion, you can't back this up with saying they fought for FA thus they are stronger, which is what you did.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Forget it -.-

Or explain it like a mature individual?

You are comparing one comedic moment with a lot of comedic moments, which is different.

I know a lot people calling smartphones - TV, which doesn't prove they are stupid

It's not different at all. Luffy is stupid, it being comedic doesn't invalidate that. Why would it be different for Kizaru?

Yes, I don't think why it would be a problem.

If you escape an Admiral by just moving a few meters, they'd never be a threat.

You don't know how fast submarine is. Kizaru needed to stand on cannon ball in order to arrive at Saobady, he haven't used his devil fruit powers to gets there, which means he has the range.

You think...Kizaru arrived to Sabaody by riding a cannonball...out of necessity? He NEEDED to RIDE a CANNONBALL?

Marco needed to arrived to MF on a ship instead of flying in. Marco can't fly confirmed.

Also, if i remember correctly, Kizaru wasn't sure did he hit them, and said "if they weren't hit, then lack was on their side".

An Admiral ought to make sure.

Also in other thread it was posted one

You must be registered for see links

.

What chapter is this?

So someone like that was candidate for FA, but Kizaru wasn't

Because he isn't mentally capable

Haki works against Logia, not paramecia. Mihawk could have used haki against Buggy, still Buggy was pretty right.

Spoiler

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Even if it couldn't bypass Paramecia, that still would make their blows even since Luffy is equally immune to punches and kicks.