Better brother,Itachi or Madara

[Lightbringer]

I don't believe that was the case, a lot of the uchiha were defecting to the senju side before they even made the alliance.

that was only after the battle where Izuna died. Many friends and family died in the war. I have no doubt that many wanted revenge.

 

[KingHashirama]

Re: Better brother,Itachi or Madara?

this thread isnt about who is a shitty brother. its about who is the better brother. if the brother who tortured his brother didnt get his brother killed then i say him. if a brother wanted to fight and didnt attempt to stop the fighting and his brother was killed in battle, then to me the first brother did a better job.

no where did i say torturing your brother is ok and no where did i say madara is a shitty brother. Im saying out of the two, itachi saved sasuke

Nah dude, Sasuke is alive, because of Naruto/Kakashi/Sakura/Lee/Jiraiya/Orochimaru/Tsunade/Choji /Ino/Shikamaru/ Haku.. Not because of Itachi. Your arguement has been destroyed now.. you are repeating the samething over and over.. while your argument keeps getting countered.. why?


Ok answer me this, was it my grandfather's fault, that he couldn't be on his brother's **** 24/7 during the war, and that his younger brother ended up dieing in the war on the same battlefield during World war 2? was it his fault? Was it his fault, he didn't know a sniper was there? Was it his fault his brother was an individual with his own dreams? Was it his fault?

^^^ Answer me that.

 

[ShiroT]

How would you know that if it hasn't happened? Like I said, Itachi could have smuggled Sasuke out or ran away with him from the village and start anew. But instead he chose to ruin his brother's life.

Hashirama only gave Madara the decision not to fight after Izuna was injured. Their clans were at war way before Madara was the leader.

Being the leader doesn't mean he can end the hatred of the entire clan. If Madara wanted peace and the rest of the clan wanted war, then there would be war. This was out of Madara's control and it lead to his brother's death. There was nothing he could have done to prevent it.


Madara actually spent time with his brother while Itachi did not.

Itachi hurt his brother, Madara did not.

Madara was the better brother

your not understanding what i said. if if his clan wanted to murder everyone did madara at any point in the manga say this is enough? no he said i want revenge. he wanted revenge and izuna was killed. did he try to stop izuna from fighting? no he believed he had to fight. there is nothing to suggest that madara even attempted to stop fighting or to stop his family.

madara wanted to fight, his brothers wanted to fight. now look hat happened, madara didnt protect them.

itachi was put in a situation where it was the uchiha start a coup and we kill them all including sasuke, or you kill them all and save your brother. madara and itachi had the same goal, only one accomplished it. and again sasuke was not killed as a result of his hatred for itachi. i dont care who saved him as long as what itachi did kept him alive.

 

[V h o]

that was only after the battle where Izuna died. Many friends and family died in the war. I have no doubt that many wanted revenge.

True but the fact that they defected should mean they already had uneasiness about the war. Many probably did want revenge but I think more wanted peace, hence the eventual alliance.

 

[ShiroT]

Re: Better brother,Itachi or Madara?

Nah dude, Sasuke is alive, because of Naruto/Kakashi/Sakura/Lee/Jiraiya/Orochimaru/Tsunade/Choji /Ino/Shikamaru/ Haku.. Not because of Itachi. Your arguement has been destroyed now.. you are repeating the samething over and over.. while your argument keeps getting countered.. why?


Ok answer me this, was it my grandfather's fault, that he couldn't be on his brother's **** 24/7 during the war, and that his younger brother ended up dieing in the war on the same battlefield during World war 2? was it his fault? Was it his fault, he didn't know a sniper was there? Was it his fault his brother was an individual with his own dreams? Was it his fault?

^^^ Answer me that.

answer me this? did your grandfather say we'll get revenge for them killing our friends? if he didnt, then no he didnt fail. if your grand father fought because he needed to and not because he wanted to then no.

MADARA wanted to fight. MADARA did not discourage any of the fighting. After they lost the war there was no need for madara to fight anymore. yet he fought. they both fought because they wanted to. after they lost the uchiha made peace with the senju showing that there was no need for them to fight hashi and tobi

 

[Lightbringer]

your not understanding what i said. if if his clan wanted to murder everyone did madara at any point in the manga say this is enough? no he said i want revenge. he wanted revenge and izuna was killed. did he try to stop izuna from fighting? no he believed he had to fight. there is nothing to suggest that madara even attempted to stop fighting or to stop his family.

madara wanted to fight, his brothers wanted to fight. now look hat happened, madara didnt protect them.

itachi was put in a situation where it was the uchiha start a coup and we kill them all including sasuke, or you kill them all and save your brother. madara and itachi had the same goal, only one accomplished it. and again sasuke was not killed as a result of his hatred for itachi. i dont care who saved him as long as what itachi did kept him alive.

Wow you have a simple-minded view of politics. His clan could protest Madara's decision if they don't agree with him. Madara wanted peace as a kid. Hashirama wanted the same, yet he still fought in a war. Not everything works out.



You must have missed the part where I said Itachi could have ran away with Sasuke and avoid the conflict altogether.

Also torturing Sasuke was not necessary.

Even if killing the clan was the last alternative, torturing Sasuke and trying to force him to kill his best-friend was not.

 

[ShiroT]

Wow you have a simple-minded view of politics. His clan could protest Madara's decision if they don't agree with him. Madara wanted peace as a kid. Hashirama wanted the same, yet he still fought in a war. Not everything works out.



You must have missed the part where I said Itachi could have ran away with Sasuke and avoid the conflict altogether.

Also torturing Sasuke was not necessary.

Even if killing the clan was the last alternative, torturing Sasuke and trying to force him to kill his best-friend was not.

i saw that and guess what? it all worked out, sasuke lived and izuna died. itachi may have been extreme but he accomplished what he said he was going to do. also sasuke's hatred for itachi drove him to live in some situations

madara may have wanted peace as a kid, he got a chance at peace and he went to fight hashirama and his brother died. he let his feelings cloud his judgement. he didnt have to forgive then senju but the smarter decision would be to stop fighting. the uchiha's agreed as they defected to the senju's and made peace after madara and izuna vs hashirama and tobirama

 

[V h o]

So Itachi is the worse brother only for torment?

 

[KingHashirama]

Re: Better brother,Itachi or Madara?

answer me this? did your grandfather say we'll get revenge for them killing our friends? if he didnt, then no he didnt fail. if your grand father fought because he needed to and not because he wanted to then no.

MADARA wanted to fight. MADARA did not discourage any of the fighting. After they lost the war there was no need for madara to fight anymore. yet he fought. they both fought because they wanted to. after they lost the uchiha made peace with the senju showing that there was no need for them to fight hashi and tobi

Where did Madara tell Izuna we'll get revenge? . Please show me where this happened.

And yea my grandfather did say he'll get revenge for the germans killing his brother. He also nearly ended up dieing, but was saved thanks to other troops. And War happens when 2 sides believe their own things right.

You kid do not know the horrors of war. You do not know what losing dozens of your family members and your clan members, can make an individual into. Some people turn crazy just after losing 1 family member.

Madara fought for defense.. show me other senju who wanted peace, with uchiha..

 

[ShiroT]

Re: Better brother,Itachi or Madara?

Where did Madara tell Izuna we'll get revenge? . Please show me where this happened.

And yea my grandfather did say he'll get revenge for the germans killing his brother. He also nearly ended up dieing, but was saved thanks to other troops. And War happens when 2 sides believe their own things right.

You kid do not know the horrors of war. You do not know what losing dozens of your family members and your clan members, can make an individual into. Some people turn crazy just after losing 1 family member.

Madara fought for defense.. show me other senju who wanted peace, with uchiha..

what im saying is madara had a chance for peace. his whole clan had a chance. him and izuna decided to fight, izuna was killed. madara did nothing to stop this battle. but he blamed the senju for killing izuna. after that fight the uchiha signed peace.

i may have mixed up some information but the point still stands

 

[KingHashirama]

Re: Better brother,Itachi or Madara?

what im saying is madara had a chance for peace. his whole clan had a chance. him and izuna decided to fight, izuna was killed. madara did nothing to stop this battle. but he blamed the senju for killing izuna. after that fight the uchiha signed peace

Nope.. Izuna didn't want to be with the Senju... surely you do realize Izuna was one of the leaders of the clan. And if Madara lets say goes against Izuna's desire.. can you say for 100% Izuna wouldn't simply leave, and go on an attempt to assassinate or fight Hashirama/Tobirama?

And yea Senju did kill Izuna.. just like Uchiha killed many Senju.


Why are you spouting about Itachi saving and Madara not saving Izuna.. when the first time Izuna was introduced in the flashbacks.. Madara was the one to save him...

Madara gave up on his dream to save his broskie, he gave up on ideals to stand by his broskie. Madara is not Hashirama..

You are trying to judge everyone from a 1 narrow minded point of view.. when we are all individuals. If someone for some reason lets say raped a friend of mine.. you can bet your say hes either gonna be a cripple or dead. I would give no f*cks for me going to jail. Thats how I work.. and some of my bros. However, there are others who wouldn't do that and simply go into court and let them handle it.

 

[V h o]

TBH madara did have a

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to end the fighting, he indirectly did lead to Izuna dying. Although maybe he did try to reason with the clan.

 

[zeezzay]

madaraa way better

 

[KingHashirama]

TBH madara did have a

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to end the fighting, he indirectly did lead to Izuna dying. Although maybe he did try to reason with the clan.

So you are saying Madara was the only thing in Izuna's life? That Madara was responsible for Izuna' thought process? That Madara was responsible for everyone's through process? From what I saw Izuna's dad had alot of influence on Izuna.

Izuna was an individual with his own dreams and desires. If Madara didn't do with Izuna, and izuna left the clan and ended up getting killed.. then you guys would be saying Madara should've listened to Izuna.. And when he did listen to Izuna, you guys are now complaining, that it was his fault that Izuna (someone who wanted to fight) died against Tobirama (someone superior to Izuna).

 

[ShiroT]

Re: Better brother,Itachi or Madara?

Nope.. Izuna didn't want to be with the Senju... surely you do realize Izuna was one of the leaders of the clan. And if Madara lets say goes against Izuna's desire.. can you say for 100% Izuna wouldn't simply leave, and go on an attempt to assassinate or fight Hashirama/Tobirama?

And yea Senju did kill Izuna.. just like Uchiha killed many Senju.


Why are you spouting about Itachi saving and Madara not saving Izuna.. when the first time Izuna was introduced in the flashbacks.. Madara was the one to save him...

Madara gave up on his dream to save his broskie, he gave up on ideals to stand by his broskie. Madara is not Hashirama..

You are trying to judge everyone from a 1 narrow minded point of view.. when we are all individuals. If someone for some reason lets say raped a friend of mine.. you can bet your say hes either gonna be a cripple or dead. I would give no f*cks for me going to jail. Thats how I work.. and some of my bros. However, there are others who wouldn't do that and simply go into court and let them handle it.

no im judging madara from the perspective that he was never shown to try and convince izuna to not re-fight so he didnt. izuna wanted to fight and madara fought with him. theres no proof madara didnt want to fight after hashirama offered him peace

im saying its one thing to try and stop a bad idea and another thing to go along with it

 

[V h o]

So you are saying Madara was the only thing in Izuna's life? That Madara was responsible for Izuna' thought process? That Madara was responsible for everyone's through process? From what I saw Izuna's dad had alot of influence on Izuna.

Izuna was an individual with his own dreams and desires. If Madara didn't do with Izuna, and izuna left the clan and ended up getting killed.. then you guys would be saying Madara should've listened to Izuna.. And when he did listen to Izuna, you guys are now complaining, that it was his fault that Izuna (someone who wanted to fight) died against Tobirama (someone superior to Izuna).

What I'm saying is, Madara discarded Hashirama's peace when they were young, and then followed his fathers footsteps for war. He became the leader of the Uchiha but still fought Hashirama, who has been spouting peace since he was young. Madara had a choice in going to war or making an alliance, he only choose peace after his brother died. Madara was the clan leader so his word/belief should weigh more than the troops word. Hashirama told all of the senju to spare Madara and they listened.

 

[KingHashirama]

Re: Better brother,Itachi or Madara?

no im judging madara from the perspective that he was never shown to try and convince izuna to not re-fight so he didnt. izuna wanted to fight and madara fought with him. theres no proof madara didnt want to fight after hashirama offered him peace

... He clearly walked away.. Even Hashirama walked away... IZUNA WAS ABOUT TO BE KILLED ... TOBIRAMA WAS ABOUT TO BE KILLED.. because the FATHERS didn't listen to their kids.

"didn't save his bro"

Let me know what this is:

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And again, Madara did go rage mode after Izuna's death.. hell many go crazy after they lose 1 sibling... HE LOST 5 FREAKING BROTHERS! What'd you expect him to do? Give out cookies and say we are all friends? wtf man. He ain't you, he ain't Hashirama..

Hell Tobirama himself wanted to kill Madara.. despite his brother saying no.. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T CONTROL THEIR MINDS! EVERYONE IS AN INDIVIDUAL ....

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Itachi has done nothing compared to Madara..

What I'm saying is, Madara discarded Hashirama's peace when they were young, and then followed his fathers footsteps for war. He became the leader of the Uchiha but still fought Hashirama, who has been spouting peace since he was young. Madara had a choice in going to war or making an alliance, he only choose peace after his brother died. Madara was the clan leader so his word/belief should weigh more than the troops word. Hashirama told all of the senju to spare Madara and they listened.

@Bold, hold mate what? HAve you even been reading the manga?

1. Madara chose to run away and not kill Hashirama..

2. Hashirama's daddy attacked Izuna, Madara was then forced to fight against Hashirama. Because to him Izuna >> Hashirama and his senju clan and his peace thing.

3. He didn't follow his daddy's way.

4. Hashirama himself killed many people.. He even acknowledged this.. ok. Hashirama is not some angel who didn't kill anyone during the war.

5. No Izuna was on an equal footing. Madara was only the leader because he was the strongest one and the older of the 2 broskies. However, if he had done something the clan disagreed with.. then he wouldn't be the leader.

6. And show me where they listened? They were shocked.. no one even took a step to stop Hashirama.. It was Madara himself who knew how it is to lose brother.. That determined that Hashirama was serious. And no it was only Hashirama in the way of Madara's death and the Senju clan. If Hashirama wasn't there, the senju would've killed Madara.

7. Madara isn't Hashirama.

 

[ShiroT]

Re: Better brother,Itachi or Madara?

... He clearly walked away.. Even Hashirama walked away... IZUNA WAS ABOUT TO BE KILLED ... TOBIRAMA WAS ABOUT TO BE KILLED.. because the FATHERS didn't listen to their kids.

"didn't save his bro"

Let me know what this is:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And again, Madara did go rage mode after Izuna's death.. hell many go crazy after they lose 1 sibling... HE LOST 5 FREAKING BROTHERS! What'd you expect him to do? Give out cookies and say we are all friends? wtf man. He ain't you, he ain't Hashirama..

Hell Tobirama himself wanted to kill Madara.. despite his brother saying no.. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T CONTROL THEIR MINDS! EVERYONE IS AN INDIVIDUAL ....

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Itachi has done nothing compared to Madara..



@Bold, hold mate what? HAve you even been reading the manga?

1. Madara chose to run away and not kill Hashirama..

2. Hashirama's daddy attacked Izuna, Madara was then forced to fight against Hashirama. Because to him Izuna >> Hashirama and his senju clan and his peace thing.

3. He didn't follow his daddy's way.

4. Hashirama himself killed many people.. He even acknowledged this.. ok. Hashirama is not some angel who didn't kill anyone during the war.

5. No Izuna was on an equal footing. Madara was only the leader because he was the strongest one and the older of the 2 broskies. However, if he had done something the clan disagreed with.. then he wouldn't be the leader.

6. And show me where they listened? They were shocked.. no one even took a step to stop Hashirama.. It was Madara himself who knew how it is to lose brother.. That determined that Hashirama was serious. And no it was only Hashirama in the way of Madara's death and the Senju clan. If Hashirama wasn't there, the senju would've killed Madara.

7. Madara isn't Hashirama.

so now your excuse is madara was driven mad by the death of his 5 brothers that it made him go to fight hashirama with izuna? not an excuse.

itachi already protected sasuke i've explained this already. madara protecting izuna that one time doesnt just automatically tip it in his favor

 

[Gintõki1]

Itachi Uchiha.

 

[V h o]

Re: Better brother,Itachi or Madara?

O5. No Izuna was on an equal footing. Madara was only the leader because he was the strongest one and the older of the 2 broskies. However, if he had done something the clan disagreed with.. then he wouldn't be the leader.

This is false. Izuna and Madara were not on equal footing in the clan. Madara was the leader, not co-leader. Hashirama lead the clan with Tobirama's approval or not.