At this point, Naruto and Minato>=Madara

[iRefleX]

This thread can't be srs right? Madara smashes them both...I know youre fanboying your character but tell me youre not this stupid?

 

[Sennin of Logic]

This thread can't be srs right? Madara smashes them both...I know youre fanboying your character but tell me youre not this stupid?

How does Madara win? Just saying automatically that a character destroys is fanboying. I gave reasons, wether or not they're correct remains to be seen, which is the point of a discussion. You're not giving any, so you're the one fanboying actually.

 

[Gerkak]

1. Madara obviously didn't go all out since he didn't use MokuBunshins, spam Meteors, use PS so yeah.
2. Again he had no reason to, since he had other ways to deal with the TBB for example his fan, Susano'o, and his MokuRyu.
3. He doesn't even need Kuchiyose to hurt Naruto (So the ratio would fail), he has plenty of other techs, like MokuRyu, Yasaka Magatama, PS Blades and etc. BSM's TBB is probably tanked by PS too, there is also Gakidō which would weaken it.

Manga disagrees with you. Why? Let me explain.

1. Madara is giving his all against hasirama yet he didn't spam meteors. So there is no evidence of him being able to spam them.

2. Madara's fan can only block mini bijuu dama. Otherwise why did he not use it to block the bijuu dama hashirama used against him instead of PS. Obviously it has a limit. This one was funny*_*

3.I already told you wood dragon is useless against naruto since he broke it when he went to save kakashi and guy.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Hashirama is obviously holding back. Madara is using his strongest weapon, PS and hashirama is using wood god. And they are equal. If hashirama brings out 1000 armed buddha it is game over for madara. So far nothing madara has shown makes him stronger than hashirama.

Lol are you trying to be funny?

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Madara hasn't even combined rinnegan techs or mokuton with his PS yet, whereas HAshirama is on his strongest base tech(wood dragon). The only thing hashi has after that is PS. L... Anyone who's far stronger than their opponent would just say **** it when they're ready to end the fight,

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[Midday]

Yes, because they can channel the beasts power. It was never ever stated that their tbb's are any better. 50% Kyuubi can make a

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. That was kyuubi on his own, not naruto. The maximum size of the tbb is proportional to the amount of chakra put in. 100% kyuubi has 2x as much chakra as 50%, therefore the maximum size tbb it can create is far bigger. Infact, it's starting tbb is twice as large as naruto's own because of it's sheer size.

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, so a tbb the size of it's head is farrrr bigger than most tbb's naruto creates.


BM Naruto is only stronger than 100% Kyuubi in every aspect other than Tbb. Naruto can't beat 100% Kyuubi's tbb's, especially a maximized one.

I agree with tbb's being proportional to how much chakra they put in, but they never put in every ounce of their chakra into the tbb, I don't even think it's a large percentage of their chakra. The tbb used in the Hashirama and Madara flashback was

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. Nothing compared to the size of the charge versions Naruto's been doing.

The only reason Naruto can't beat Kurama is because it can't be killed. He's better in all aspects imo, his tanking feats are far greater, being able to take on a Juubidama which would be above anything 100% kyuubi can pull off.

 

[Avinash012]

my point is the tbb naruto just made isn't the size of full kurama's standard tbb

There is no such a thing as standard TBB in NV ....TBB that created by Naruto is abviously bigger than any TBB that is used during the battle of Madara and Hashirama ....and the TBB of Naruto is a bit smaller than the TBB which got fodderized By Minato........!

 

[iRefleX]

Also Hashirama vs Madara...Madara has the rinnegan now and is a better user than Nagato from what we have seen (pulling meteors down) nuff said...Madara is stronger than Hashirama now. But Both of them are holding back ATM...

 

[Gerkak]

Lol are you trying to be funny?

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Madara hasn't even combined rinnegan techs or mokuton with his PS yet, whereas HAshirama is on his strongest base tech(wood dragon). The only thing hashi has after that is PS. L... Anyone who's far stronger than their opponent would just say **** it when they're ready to end the fight,

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True, hashirama cannot end the fight swiftly. He is still at a greater level than madara you cannot go against the manga. Madara said his full strength is PS. And hashi's full strength is 1000 arms buddha. Whether you like it or not hashirama's technique is more powerful.

 

[AGoodBoy]

I'm going off line for now, so more proof s will have to wait. Don't treat me like a fanboy. Up until this point, I thought that Madara was stronger than both. Hokage's barrier was strong enough to tank Juubi TBB, which, by the way, destroyed PS. Obito then used small chakra arms to break the same barrier. Obito then used much larger chakra arms in an attempt to stop Naruto and Minato's attack. It failed miserably. They broke through easily. More than half of that attack's power came from Naruto, so it's in no way a stretch for BM+SM Naruto to destroy PS.

Don't rage at the prospect that Naruto>Madara. Give reasons. Otherwise you're the fanboys. I'm giving reasons and feats. (this isn't to everybody with different opinions, I'm fine with the calm ones like Rivaille)

You are a fanboy but you're not acting too badly today at least. My rage hasn't been bubbled yet, so your fanboyism is in check. I understand why fanboys would be going off the rocker in light of the new manga release so i ain't mad right now.

ANyway, I'm not saying naruto can't break PS. Infact, he most likely can at this point. The point is, Madara has too much in his arsenal that can stop any attempt of any TBB ever even touching His Susano'o. LEt's not forget he potentially has Cerebus(that can't die so would tank the Tbb while susano'o takes the aftershock), and also has mokuton dragon and PS to Absorb chakra. If naruto fires a TBB, madara can simply start absorbing it while PS is up tanking some of the damage.

Madara's Using PS With his rinnegan atm.

p.s. To the guy saying madara si using his all against hashirama, Lol@you. I don't know what manga you're reading. Madara's clearly killing time/looking for an opening/setting up some scenario for w.e his trump card is. 30 chapters ago we saw madara use meteors and mokuton with susano'o but now you believe he can't use techs with PS? Lmfao.

EDIT: Hashirama doesn't even know madara has mokuton atm! Nor does he even know the rinnegan abilities right now! Notice how Madara is cleverly hiding both of those from hashirama? Hashi doesn't know madara survived vote, nor does he know madara has a piece of him on his chest.

 

[Midday]

Also Hashirama vs Madara...Madara has the rinnegan now and is a better user than Nagato from what we have seen (pulling meteors down) nuff said...Madara is stronger than Hashirama now. But Both of them are holding back ATM...

No he isn't. He's shown petra path and a metoer, Nagato's larger techniques are well above the meteor and he's shown a lot more versatility by using all of the paths abilities along with the supplementary debilitates the rinnengan offer.

Also who says Nagato can't bt a metoer himself he did something similar but on a small scale, the reason he's never done anything like that because the technique is suicidal.

 

[Gerkak]

Also Hashirama vs Madara...Madara has the rinnegan now and is a better user than Nagato from what we have seen (pulling meteors down) nuff said...Madara is stronger than Hashirama now. But Both of them are holding back ATM...

The meteor he pulled was effortlessly sliced by PS. PS=bijuu. Technically a bijuu should be able to destroy the meteor easily as well. 1000 armed buddha>PS=bijuu. Nothing madara has shown can defeat hashirama nuff said.

 

[RasenUchihaChaos]

together they give madara a tough fight but then again its 4 against 1 dont see how madara wouldtn have trouble fighting the blondes and yin and yang kurama as well

 

[iRefleX]

The meteor he pulled was effortlessly sliced by PS. PS=bijuu. Technically a bijuu should be able to destroy the meteor easily as well. 1000 armed buddha>PS=bijuu. Nothing madara has shown can defeat hashirama nuff said.

Wait...when did PS slice the meteor...

 

[Wave.]

Manga disagrees with you. Why? Let me explain.

1. Madara is giving his all against hasirama yet he didn't spam meteors. So there is no evidence of him being able to spam them.

2. Madara's fan can only block mini bijuu dama. Otherwise why did he not use it to block the bijuu dama hashirama used against him instead of PS. Obviously it has a limit. This one was funny*_*

3.I already told you wood dragon is useless against naruto since he broke it when he went to save kakashi and guy.

1. No he isn't since he's only using PS, if Madara would go all out he would use most of his strong Jutsu as well for example his meteor, MokuRyu, MokuBunshins, Yasaka Magatama and etc. They're both not going all out atm. So because Madara didn't spam them, means he can't? Well Naruto has never destroyed Madara's Ribcage Susano'o, I'm guessing he can't either? As long as he has infinite chakra, Madara can spam it. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Oh and I'm pretty sure Madara said he was stalling for time.

2. Not the point. The point is he didn't use Kuchiyose because he had other ways to deal with TBB. I'm aware his fan can't repel a full TBB.

3. MokuRyu absorbs Kurama's chakra, which would disrupt the ratio Naruto needs to maintain to create a TBB. I didn't say its would kill Naruto, I even said in between the parenthesis the reason why he would use the Jutsu.

 

[Fecal Matter]

Are people actually saying BSM Naruto > Edo Madara? I thought this was EMS Madara. x_x

 

[Gerkak]

Wait...when did PS slice the meteor...

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The big rock to the right of madara's PS was the meteor sliced in half.

 

[xcoyote]

1. No he isn't since he's only using PS, if Madara would go all out he would use most of his strong Jutsu as well for example his meteor, MokuRyu, MokuBunshins, Yasaka Magatama and etc. They're both not going all out atm. So because Madara didn't spam them, means he can't? Well Naruto has never destroyed Madara's Ribcage Susano'o, I'm guessing he can't either? As long as he has infinite chakra, Madara can spam it. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

2. Not the point. The point is he didn't use Kuchiyose because he had other ways to deal with TBB. I'm aware his fan can't repel a full TBB.

3. MokuRyu absorbs Kurama's chakra, which would disrupt the ratio Naruto needs to maintain to create a TBB. I didn't say its would kill Naruto, I even said in between the parenthesis the reason why he would use the Jutsu.

@bold his full power is PS,Edo Madara himself stated that,Hashi with WD is stalemating against PS at this point,Hashi with 1000kbudha stomps,all hail plot that Hashi for some weird reason doesnt go all out and finish this shit already.Cant argue with plot.

 

[AGoodBoy]

I agree with tbb's being proportional to how much chakra they put in, but they never put in every ounce of their chakra into the tbb, I don't even think it's a large percentage of their chakra. The tbb used in the Hashirama and Madara flashback was

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. Nothing compared to the size of the charge versions Naruto's been doing.

The only reason Naruto can't beat Kurama is because it can't be killed. He's better in all aspects imo, his tanking feats are far greater, being able to take on a Juubidama which would be above anything 100% kyuubi can pull off.

I agree with this. I wasn't saying Kyuubi used a full power tbb back in the flashback either. Infact, madara was using Tbb barrages there (can't be powered up) which would be bigger than naruto's own tbb barrages.

But, like i said, I agree that naruto is better in every respect(tanking, attack, blah blah) just not in the maximum size that a TBB can actually reach. But, hey, maybe with senjutsu chakra his TBB damage level/Area of effect is increased drastically. Who knows, he might be pushing far more damage with less size right now :

True, hashirama cannot end the fight swiftly. He is still at a greater level than madara you cannot go against the manga. Madara said his full strength is PS. And hashi's full strength is 1000 arms buddha. Whether you like it or not hashirama's technique is more powerful.

It's not whether I like it or not. The fact of the matter is that, if you haven't noticed yet, Madara is hiding All of his knew upgrades from hashirama. If you go back through the manga from the time hashi arrived, madara hasn't used a single rinnegan tech or Mokuton tech. Like tobirama just stated, hashirama is an idiot. For all we know, hashirama probably thinks that's exactly how madara's EMS use to look at can't even notice that madara is camping a new set of Lenses right now.

It's a bit naive to think Madara can't take down Buddha at this point BTW. He took down part of it with Kyuubi-PS before. Now, he has Mokuton, meteors, and PS that he could potentially combine to help swiftly bring it down. The fact of the matter is, 1000 hands didn't kill Madara before and, if hashirama is stupid enough to pull it out, SA better get Far far away because shit's going to hit the fan.

 

[iRefleX]

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The big rock to the right of madara's PS was the meteor sliced in half.

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........

No it wasn't...

 

[Wave.]

@bold his full power is PS,Edo Madara himself stated that,Hashi with WD is stalemating against PS at this point,Hashi with 1000kbudha stomps,all hail plot that Hashi for some weird reason doesnt go all out and finish this shit already.Cant argue with plot.

MokuBunshins with PS+Meteor Spam+MokuRyu Spam+Yasaka Magatama Spam is probably stronger than one Madara using PS. PS is his strongest Jutsu but Madara can apply better strategies than the one he's using currently. As for the rest alright.