At this point, Naruto and Minato>=Madara

[Sennin of Logic]

The things those 2 showed make me think that they are now at least equal with Madara given the jutsu he's shown. That is of course, if he doesn't reveal some rinnegan OPness.

Why Naruto's on par or greater:

Madara's PS was said to be a rival to the bijus. Naruto now has SM to enhance a biju's power, so SM+BM is almost certainly stronger than PS. Then there's this....

Spoiler

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I know this was a joint effort, but more than half of the attack's power came from Naruto, so it does show how significant of a power increase Naruto has. Those chakra arms Obito used are thicker than the ones Obito used to break the barrier!

Spoiler

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Susanoo is nowhere near as strong as the chakra arms and Naruto and Minato blasted right through it! It also cracked the black liquid that cut through an incomplete susanoo like swish cheese.

Spoiler

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And considering it's like an enhanced version of particle style, which destroyed 25 complete susanoos, that's a significant feat.

Now that he has SM, his reaction time has increased, so he can combat wood style better. It's also debatable that SM added to Kurama is immune to wood style.



Naruto's brute power far surpasses Madara's at this point.



Why Minato's on par or greater.....


BM's power is on par with Madara's PS, so this part is self explanatory. However, on top of this, Minato has FTG! He can teleport himself in Kurama mode. The reason being that he's teleported Kurama before, so there should be no special reason why he couldn't. Also, now that he has Kurama's chakra, teleporting Kurama should be nothing to him now. FTG with BM enables Minato to have striking power equal to Madara's, but can escape when he get's in a bad situation(such as wood style).



Naruto and Minato are insanely OP right now!

 

[Wave.]

Yes Naruto and Minato together are stronger than Madara but individually Madara is superior.

Just would like to remind you that Madara' Final not Perfect Susano'o's Sword tanked a Bijūdama from a 100% Kurama, I doubt Naruto or Minato alone have the firepower to destroy a complete Perfect Susano'o.

Madara could also use Kuchiyose no Jutsu which would hurt Naruto and Minato opening an opportunity for him to end them.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Yes Naruto and Minato together are stronger than Madara but individually Madara is superior.

Just would like to remind you that Madara' Final not Perfect Susano'o's Sword tanked a Bijūdama from a 100% Kurama

Doubt that. Naruto's power at this point is far greater than Madara's. And the only thing Minato ever lacked was insane striking power. Now he has it, and Madara wouldn't be able to catch him either.

 

[hixa kuogame]

Noo not quite

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Noo not quite

Tell me how Madara can beat either of them then.

 

[Murasame]

Yes Naruto and Minato together are stronger than Madara but individually Madara is superior.

Just would like to remind you that Madara' Final not Perfect Susano'o's Sword tanked a Bijūdama from a 100% Kurama, I doubt Naruto or Minato alone have the firepower to destroy a complete Perfect Susano'o.

Madara could also use Kuchiyose no Jutsu which would hurt Naruto and Minato opening an opportunity for him to end them.

Isn't a tailed beast weaker without a host? With Naruto he can use his TBBS more precise and whatnot.

 

[Wave.]

Doubt that. Naruto's power at this point is far greater than Madara's. And the only thing Minato ever lacked was insane striking power. Now he has it, and Madara wouldn't be able to catch him either.

Naruto might have greater striking power but I doubt its enough to destroy Perfect Susano'o when a V4 Susano'o's sword tanked a 100% Kurama's Bijūdama, I don't see Naruto' 50% SM Bijūdama destroying a complete Perfect Susano'o. Kuchiyose no Jutsu would hurt them as shown when he tried to summon Kurama the first time. Perfect Susano'o's Slash's range is quite large, Madara could make infinite MokuBunshins, and spam meteors. Even together I doubt they can take down Edo Madara.

Isn't a tailed beast weaker without a host? With Naruto he can use his TBBS more precise and whatnot.

Kurama still lost half of its chakra, its significantly weaker which is why Naruto and Minato collaborated for more firepower but a Jinchūriki can use a Bijū's power more proficiently since they could partially transform and use KCM or BM.

 

[Avinash012]

Combined together ....?

Father and son takes this mid dif....

individually ...?

any one of them is a mid - high dif for Madara....Minato may win with super high dif....

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Naruto might have greater striking power but I doubt its enough to destroy Perfect Susano'o when a V4 Susano'o's sword tanked a 100% Kurama's Bijūdama, I don't see Naruto' 50% SM Bijūdama destroying a complete Perfect Susano'o. Kuchiyose no Jutsu would hurt them as shown when he tried to summon Kurama the first time. Perfect Susano'o's Slash's range is quite large, Madara could make infinite MokuBunshins, and spam meteors. Even together I doubt they can take down Edo Madara.

It was PS that tanked the Biju Dama. Final susanoo blocked TBB, but it exploded anyway, and after it cleared up, we saw PS. Naruto's feats with 50%Kurama are greater than 100%Kurama's feats. For instance, Kurama only used small biju damas against susanoo. An then there's this....

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He almost instantly made a TBB much larger than the one 100%Kurama used. Also, I'm pretty sure SM's enhancement makes Naruto much stronger than 100%Kurama.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Oh god... More of this bullshit...

Hashirama and madara easily solo these two. Individually or together.

It's Like people forget these 2 possess chakra absorption. Guess what Naruto and minato are using the most? Chakra based attacks :|

Minato and naruto are still 4 and 5.


EDIT: There's an obvious reason Kishi has naruto and Co fighting Obito first. It's because obito doesn't possess Preta Path abilities or kamui, so chakra based attacks (infused with senjutsu) can actually harm him. Unlike obito who's weak to senjutsu, Taijutsu, madara has 0 weaknesses. Susano'o protects from taijutsu, while rinnegan counters Everything else.

 

[slimreaper]

you guys are high.
PS dwarfs naruto in BM and he hasn't shown any new feats. all he did was help minato push an attack he created and add senjutsu to make it work(it didn't)

 

[Beep]

Naruto and Minato are definitely more powerful than Madara :x3:

 

[YellowFang]

Considering you are putting Madara against the duo, Father-son duo definitely defeats him...

But individually, I doubt but they still hold their grounds against Madara...

 

[slimreaper]

It was PS that tanked the Biju Dama. Final susanoo blocked TBB, but it exploded anyway, and after it cleared up, we saw PS. Naruto's feats with 50%Kurama are greater than 100%Kurama's feats. For instance, Kurama only used small biju damas against susanoo. An then there's this....

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He almost instantly made a TBB much larger than the one 100%Kurama used. Also, I'm pretty sure SM's enhancement makes Naruto much stronger than 100%Kurama.

shut up!!!!! the tbb isn't bigger

look at naruto's tbb compared to himself. he is small but not that small.

a full kurama tbb made minato look like an ant

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and before you say something about reference point

look at minato compared to his own bust

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still an ant.

the full tbb just looks smaller because the 9 tails is bigger.

 

[Avinash012]

Naruto might have greater striking power but I doubt its enough to destroy Perfect Susano'o when a V4 Susano'o's sword tanked a 100% Kurama's Bijūdama, I don't see Naruto' 50% SM Bijūdama destroying a complete Perfect Susano'o. Kuchiyose no Jutsu would hurt them as shown when he tried to summon Kurama the first time. Perfect Susano'o's Slash's range is quite large, Madara could make infinite MokuBunshins, and spam meteors. Even together I doubt they can take down Edo Madara.

Kurama still lost half of its chakra, its significantly weaker which is why Naruto and Minato collaborated for more firepower but a Jinchūriki can use a Bijū's power more proficiently since they could partially transform and use KCM or BM.

PS tanked fodder TBB's not a TBB of this level

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Iam sure PS can tank it but it is not as easy as a normal TBB

TBB is a factor or Chakra ...it has nothing to do with Kyubi's full power....

Power of TBB depends on amount of chakra....

 

[VongolaX]

Madara is still way stronger

Naruto needs his other half kyuubi chakra

to reach Madara and Hashirama's league


When naruto is able to make his own entity into a physical being like madara and hashirama.....I completely disagree with you

 

[Gerkak]

Let us analyse it.

Madara vs naruto BSM

100% kurama=PS

naruto has 50% kurama= 1/2 as strong as PS.

sage mode makes naruto atleast 3 times stronger. This means that 50% kurama(x3)>PS. Simple logic.

Minato vs madara.

Madara is more powerful but minato has more speed and can dodge all of madara's attacks while attacking constantly with TBB. No matter the difference in power PS will break. People still seem to think that madara is on hashirama's level how laughable.

 

[Wave.]

It was PS that tanked the Biju Dama. Final susanoo blocked TBB, but it exploded anyway, and after it cleared up, we saw PS. Naruto's feats with 50%Kurama are greater than 100%Kurama's feats. For instance, Kurama only used small biju damas against susanoo. An then there's this....

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He almost instantly made a TBB much larger than the one 100%Kurama used. Also, I'm pretty sure SM's enhancement makes Naruto much stronger than 100%Kurama.

Right, I forgot about that, still though, PS tanks it.

You are aware that the current Kurama we're seeing is half the size of the Kurama Madara controlled right? The Bijūdama he made is roughly the size of 50% Kurama's head which is a lot smaller than the Kurama Madara controlled. The Bijūdama he created should be smaller than 100% Kurama's hand or something.

I seriously doubt SM would make up for 50% of Kurama's chakra. In any case Kuchiyose no Jutsu would severely hurt Naruto, and ruin the ratio he needs to maintain to create a Bijūdama. Minato's whole arsenal is useless because of Gakidō. MokuBunshins with PS spamming meteors and slashing Minato and Naruto would end them.

PS tanked fodder TBB's not a TBB of this level

Spoiler

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Iam sure PS can tank it but it is not as easy as a normal TBB

TBB is a factor or Chakra ...it has nothing to do with Kyubi's full power....

Power of TBB depends on amount of chakra....

Fodder TBB? Please tell me you're kidding :|

The explosion would have destroyed Konoha which is why Minato teleported it.

Are you seriously arguing that 50% Kurama's Jutsu are stronger than 100% Kurama? :|

Not really, since 100% Kurama's TBB is way larger than 50% Kurama's, obviously the explosion should be larger.

Yes I agree hence why I said 100% Kurama>50% Kurama because 100% Kurama has more chakra then 50% Kurama.

 

[Midday]

Let us analyse it.

Madara vs naruto BSM

100% kurama=PS

naruto has 50% kurama= 1/2 as strong as PS.

sage mode makes naruto atleast 3 times stronger. This means that 50% kurama(x3)>PS. Simple logic.

Minato vs madara.

Madara is more powerful but minato has more speed and can dodge all of madara's attacks while attacking constantly with TBB. No matter the difference in power PS will break. People still seem to think that madara is on hashirama's level how laughable.

I disagree with Naruto being half as strong because he has half chakra. Firstly chakra level =/= power and even if it did you need to consider how much stronger Jinchuuriki are than bijuu alone, look at how the Juubi couldn't do anything thing about the Hokage barrier or Hashirama's gates, as soon as Obito took control those were easily taken care of as the Juubi was no longer shooting out it's power randomly.

 

[Gerkak]

Right, I forgot about that, still though, PS tanks it.

You are aware that the current Kurama we're seeing is half the size of the Kurama Madara controlled right? The Bijūdama he made is roughly the size of 50% Kurama's head which is a lot smaller than the Kurama Madara controlled. The Bijūdama he created should be smaller than 100% Kurama's hand or something.

I seriously doubt SM would make up for 50% of Kurama's chakra. In any case Kuchiyose no Jutsu would severely hurt Naruto, and ruin the ratio he needs to maintain to create a Bijūdama. Minato's whole arsenal is useless because of Gakidō. MokuBunshins with PS spamming meteors and slashing Minato and Naruto would end them.

Madara cannot do that if naruto and kurama are working together. Otherwise he would have done it when fighting naruto before. Are you saying that naruto was not twice or even more than twice as strong as he was when he was in sage mode against pain than he was in base? The same applies to BSM. SM makes the user atleast 3 times stronger.