I disagree with Naruto being half as strong because he has half chakra. Firstly chakra level =/= power and even if it did you need to consider how much stronger Jinchuuriki are than bijuu alone, look at how the Juubi couldn't do anything thing about the Hokage barrier or Hashirama's gates, as soon as Obito took control those were easily taken care of as the Juubi was no longer shooting out it's power randomly.
Completely different Scenario. Obito's Tbb's are still as strong as the juubi's. His Chakra arms just channeled the juubi's power in a way that it could rip the barrier apart. It's the same way 4 of OBito's TBB's couldn't bust his barrier. 50% kyuubi's TBB is infact weaker than 100%. For that matter, the tbb hashirama tossed back might have been smaller than the one fired since mokuton dragon absorbs chakra and that tbb's chakra might have started to get absorbed. In anycase Hashirama and Edo madara are still farrr superior to both of these guys.
Madara cannot do that if naruto and kurama are working together. Otherwise he would have done it when fighting naruto before. Are you saying that naruto was not twice or even more than twice as strong as he was when he was in sage mode against pain than he was in base? The same applies to BSM. SM makes the user atleast 3 times stronger.
Madara has animal path kuchiyose considering he was able to summon the mazo from the moon. Animal Path Summonings(which aren't even needed here) would seriously mess up these guys.
I'm sure he still can. Why would he have needed to use it before? He was already shitting on naruto with Uchiha return and mokuton dragon, Trying to summon Kyuubi just to cause a little pain would be pointless.
I disagree with Naruto being half as strong because he has half chakra. Firstly chakra level =/= power and even if it did you need to consider how much stronger Jinchuuriki are than bijuu alone, look at how the Juubi couldn't do anything thing about the Hokage barrier or Hashirama's gates, as soon as Obito took control those were easily taken care of as the Juubi was no longer shooting out it's power randomly.
Hashirama and madara easily solo these two. Individually or together.
It's Like people forget these 2 possess chakra absorption. Guess what Naruto and minato are using the most? Chakra based attacks :|
Minato and naruto are still 4 and 5.
EDIT: There's an obvious reason Kishi has naruto and Co fighting Obito first. It's because obito doesn't possess Preta Path abilities or kamui, so chakra based attacks (infused with senjutsu) can actually harm him. Unlike obito who's weak to senjutsu, Taijutsu, madara has 0 weaknesses. Susano'o protects from taijutsu, while rinnegan counters Everything else.
Completely different Scenario. Obito's Tbb's are still as strong as the juubi's. His Chakra arms just channeled the juubi's power in a way that it could rip the barrier apart. It's the same way 4 of OBito's TBB's couldn't bust his barrier. 50% kyuubi's TBB is infact weaker than 100%. For that matter, the tbb hashirama tossed back might have been smaller than the one fired since mokuton dragon absorbs chakra and that tbb's chakra might have started to get absorbed. In anycase Hashirama and Edo madara are still farrr superior to both of these guys.
Yes Naruto and Minato together are stronger than Madara but individually Madara is superior.
Just would like to remind you that Madara' Final not Perfect Susano'o's Sword tanked a Bijūdama from a 100% Kurama, I doubt Naruto or Minato alone have the firepower to destroy a complete Perfect Susano'o.
Madara could also use Kuchiyose no Jutsu which would hurt Naruto and Minato opening an opportunity for him to end them.
Madara cannot do that if naruto and kurama are working together. Otherwise he would have done it when fighting naruto before. Are you saying that naruto was not twice or even more than twice as strong as he was when he was in sage mode against pain than he was in base? The same applies to BSM. SM makes the user atleast 3 times stronger.
Why is that? I don't remember it being mentioned, would you please show me a manga scan or tell like when it was mentioned so I could look it up? He didn't have reason to since his fan was able to block his TBBs and surely his Susano'o can do the same.
Not really sure where you got the numbers from, but I don't really recall that arc very well so fine let's say BSM=100% Kurama, his TBB is still tanked by PS since Madara was able to the first time.
Completely different Scenario. Obito's Tbb's are still as strong as the juubi's. His Chakra arms just channeled the juubi's power in a way that it could rip the barrier apart. It's the same way 4 of OBito's TBB's couldn't bust his barrier. 50% kyuubi's TBB is infact weaker than 100%. For that matter, the tbb hashirama tossed back might have been smaller than the one fired since mokuton dragon absorbs chakra and that tbb's chakra might have started to get absorbed. In any case Hashirama and Edo madara are still farrr superior to both of these guys.
Disagree, it's been stated a few times that bijuu are stronger than their bijuu. Obito's barrier =/= the hokages barrier it's actually stronger. The tbb wasn't on the same level the Juubi used against the first power, he shot off four fairly small tbb's compared to the one charged by the Juubi.
Going by feats 100% kyuubi is weaker than Naruto's bm(i'm assuming that's what we're talking about now). As for Hashi and Madara being far stronger that's only your opinion, which I disagree with.
Madara has animal path kuchiyose considering he was able to summon the mazo from the moon. Animal Path Summonings(which aren't even needed here) would seriously mess up these guys.
I'm sure he still can. Why would he have needed to use it before? He was already shitting on naruto with Uchiha return and mokuton dragon, Trying to summon Kyuubi just to cause a little pain would be pointless.
That is utterly useless. PRetty much shows how little you know of this manga. Ribcage Susano'o effortlessly tanks both of those. That's assuming they ever get close enough through the waves of mokuton that would be going their way.
Lol. Unlikely. Highly unlikely. Otherwise he wouldn't still be fighting madara considering he wants to help against OBito. If he was far above, madara would have been regenerating right now while he goes on his business.
Why is that? I don't remember it being mentioned, would you please show me a manga scan or tell like when it was mentioned so I could look it up? He didn't have reason to since his fan was able to block his TBBs and surely his Susano'o can do the same.
Lol. Unlikely. Highly unlikely. Otherwise he wouldn't still be fighting madara considering he wants to help against OBito. If he was far above, madara would have been regenerating right now while he goes on his business.
Hashirama is obviously holding back. Madara is using his strongest weapon, PS and hashirama is using wood god. And they are equal. If hashirama brings out 1000 armed buddha it is game over for madara. So far nothing madara has shown makes him stronger than hashirama.
Any kyubi can creat TBB of that size by usng more chakra regardless of wether it is full powered or not...F.Kyubi can creat bigger one since it has more chakra then 50% Kyubi......
Look at the TBB of Kyubi against Minato ....
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It is nearly as big as 100% Kyubi ...and now Look at the size of TBB that Madara's PS tanked and Madara used against Hashirama compared to Kyubi
1. Madara obviously didn't go all out since he didn't use MokuBunshins, spam Meteors, use PS so yeah.
2. Again he had no reason to, since he had other ways to deal with the TBB for example his fan, Susano'o, and his MokuRyu.
3. He doesn't even need Kuchiyose to hurt Naruto (So the ratio would fail), he has plenty of other techs, like MokuRyu, Yasaka Magatama, PS Blades and etc. BSM's TBB is probably tanked by PS too, there is also Gakidō which would weaken it.
He doesn't really need Kuchiyose, any tech that hits Naruto before TBB is done would disrupt his chakra, MokuRyu should be a good substitute since Mokuton can be spawned anywhere.
Any kyubi can creat TBB of that size by usng more chakra regardless of wether it is full powered or not...F.Kyubi can creat bigger one since it has more chakra then 50% Kyubi......
Look at the TBB of Kyubi against Minato ....
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It is nearly as big as 100% Kyubi ...and now Look at the size of TBB that Madara's PS tanked and Madara used against Hashirama compared to Kyubi
Disagree, it's been stated a few times that bijuu are stronger than their bijuu. Obito's barrier =/= the hokages barrier it's actually stronger. The tbb wasn't on the same level the Juubi used against the first power, he shot off four fairly small tbb's compared to the one charged by the Juubi.
Going by feats 100% kyuubi is weaker than Naruto's bm(i'm assuming that's what we're talking about now). As for Hashi and Madara being far stronger that's only your opinion, which I disagree with.
Yes, because they can channel the beasts power. It was never ever stated that their tbb's are any better. 50% Kyuubi can make a
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. That was kyuubi on his own, not naruto. The maximum size of the tbb is proportional to the amount of chakra put in. 100% kyuubi has 2x as much chakra as 50%, therefore the maximum size tbb it can create is far bigger. Infact, it's starting tbb is twice as large as naruto's own because of it's sheer size.
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, so a tbb the size of it's head is farrrr bigger than most tbb's naruto creates.
BM Naruto is only stronger than 100% Kyuubi in every aspect other than Tbb. Naruto can't beat 100% Kyuubi's tbb's, especially a maximized one.
1) The wood dragon completely absorbed his BM shroud and bumped him down to BAse Bm, so it was indeed useful. Add Preta path into that and naruto is completely shat on. NAruto only escaped because the mokuton dragon was wrapped around his kyuubi shroud(which was absorbed) and not around him. NAruto wasn't restrained so he could easily run away in the end.
2) Madara was messing with naruto. He said he was messing around before but now 'wouldn't hold back' yet only chose a simple mokuton dragon to try restrain him. MAdara has meteors that could fall from the sky. Madara has PS. MAdara has mokuton great forest emergence. Madara also has preta, and his massive fireballs, etc etc, but only threw a simply mokuton dragon at naruto. Madara was still mucking about even though he said he wouldn't hold back anymore. It's the same way he was punking the gokage with all those high level techniques to intimidate them and make them lose hope.
I'm going off line for now, so more proof s will have to wait. Don't treat me like a fanboy. Up until this point, I thought that Madara was stronger than both. Hokage's barrier was strong enough to tank Juubi TBB, which, by the way, destroyed PS. Obito then used small chakra arms to break the same barrier. Obito then used much larger chakra arms in an attempt to stop Naruto and Minato's attack. It failed miserably. They broke through easily. More than half of that attack's power came from Naruto, so it's in no way a stretch for BM+SM Naruto to destroy PS.
Don't rage at the prospect that Naruto>Madara. Give reasons. Otherwise you're the fanboys. I'm giving reasons and feats. (this isn't to everybody with different opinions, I'm fine with the calm ones like Rivaille)
