Adult ems sasuke vs ems madara

[King Of Pop]

Even without the cloak , the chakra is still present in the users chakra system.

Sasuke had Kurama , Naruto and Ashura's chakra running through his chakra system without the Cloak bein visible .

what? how did you arrive at this? is there any scan of anyone performing a jutsu without the ckoak that they only showed with the cloak?

 

[BLAZE]

Even without the cloak , the chakra is still present in the users chakra system.

Sasuke had Kurama , Naruto and Ashura's chakra running through his chakra system without the Cloak bein visible .

lol what Sai disagrees alongside naruto [

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[neosmith500]

what? how did you arrive at this? is there any scan of anyone performing a jutsu without the ckoak that they only showed with the cloak?

Kurama's Chakra upgrades the users chakra and in tern jutsus as a whole making things that use Chakra , more potent/bigger/stronger.

I only stated the fact that Sasuke had Naruto/Ashura's and kurama's chakra running through his chakra system when he used PS.

Never did i say Sasuke needed it to perform PS but it likely helped him in using it as quickly as he did.

lol what Sai disagrees alongside naruto [

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Is that so?xd

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[BLAZE]

Is that so?xd

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????????
yes and i was talking about boost.
Another Example is Hinata's 64 palms which was piss poor compared to part 1 Neji's 64 palm.
yet another example will be be Sakura's own Medical ninjutsu that wasn't helping shikamru much.Both had fringes of kurama' chakra

 

[neosmith500]

????????
yes and i was talking about boost.

Ok , Kakashi already explained to us that even without his cloak bein visible , he still retained its boost to a lesser degree so no.

Everyone noted the same analogy here without going into detail.

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Another Example is Hinata's 64 palms which was piss poor compared to part 1 Neji's 64 palm.

64 Palms requires skill , wat a great example.

yet another example will be be Sakura's own Medical ninjutsu that wasn't helping shikamru much.Both had fringes of kurama' chakra

What would kurama's chakra have done in order to help sakura heal shika? not only that but kurama's chakra is wat helped keep shika alive.

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Also what does this have to do with Sasuke having ashura's chakra in his chakra system when he used PS?

 

[King Of Pop]

Kurama's Chakra upgrades the users chakra and in tern jutsus as a whole making things that use Chakra more potent/bigger/stronger.

was this stated? because basically you are claiming those who were performing feats wth the chakra like hinatas palm, can still do that with it since they have their internal chakra system upgraded. if thats what you are claiming, then you have to provide evidence of such otherwise its baseless. the cloak externally just gives the user enough chakra to use bigger jutsu, once its gone, all benefits are lost. it dont remember where it was indicated it upgrades internal chakra system

and that scan you showed is irrelevant because it was explicitly said that the chakra didnt leave their body, simply that it wasnt as visible because the size had shrunk and it activated again due to narutos emotion. however concerning sasuke, the cloak had left his body completely, even the bsm avatar got removed and when naruto actiavted his bm, the cloak didnt activate in sasuke meaning he didnt have it, not internally in his system(which is what you are claiming), not externally so it wouldnt have had any effect on him whatsoever.

 

[neosmith500]

was this stated? because basically those who were performing feas wth the chakra like hinatas palm, can still do that with it since they have their internal chakra system upgraded.

Yes they can , only to a lesser degree.

if thats what you are claiming, then you have to provide evidence of such otherwise its baseless. the cloak externally just gives the user enough chakra to use bigger jutsu, once its gone, all benefits are lost.

Thats where ur wrong because shika had his claok externally and internally zapped by the shuinju , yet it still remained and was able to keep shika alive.

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Another example is the team cementing that the cloak doesn't completly vanish , but only diminishes in size.

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Last but not least is the scan where kakashi noted that even tho his cloak had vanished he still retained about a 10x boost from the diminished chakra within him.

it dont remember where it was indicated it upgrades internal chakra system

It mixes Naruto's and Kurama's Chakra with the Chakra of the host , the chakra passes through the body interally which is why the cloak is present and when this chakra diminishes , the claok gets smaller or vanishes completely.

Kurama's chakra isn't permanent tho but its duration is very long.

and that scan you showed is irrelevant because it was explicitly said that the chakra didnt leave their body, simply that it wasnt as visible because the size had shrunk and it activated again due to narutos emotion.
however concerning sasuke, the cloak had left his body completely, even the bsm avatar got removed and when naruto actiavted his bm, the cloak didnt activate in sasuke meaning he didnt have it, not internally in his system(which is what you are claiming), not externally so it wouldnt have had any effect on him whatsoever.

Sasuke gained his cloak shortly before losing it and the chakra would not completely vanish internally in such a short time and obito's attack would have no effect on sasuke's internal chakra system where naruto's chakra is located.

Kakashi lost his cloak for much longer than sasuke yet still retained its chakra and boost.

Also wat about the fact that Ashura's chakra mixed with Indra's when he gained the cloak? would it not be possible for that to have had some effect on sasuke's quick growth in regards to PS?

 

[BLAZE]

Ok , Kakashi already explained to us that even without his cloak bein visible , he still retained its boost to a lesser degree so no.
Everyone noted the same analogy here without going into detail.

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Nope he didn't or Obito won't be easily battling him and tricking him in kamui dimension :| or are u talking about direct boost from kurama

64 Palms requires skill , wat a great example.

It should have one shotted the Jubbi minion seeing what the boost did to her Air palm

What would kurama's chakra have done in order to help sakura heal shika? not only that but kurama's chakra is wat helped keep shika alive.

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dats the cloak :lol he was literally dying without it

Also what does this have to do with Sasuke having ashura's chakra in his chakra system when he used PS?

He would have gained Rinnegan then
are u repeteadly saying Sasuke has Indra+Asura[aka SO6P] chakra without anything remotely close even being stated :|

 

[neosmith500]

]Nope he didn't[/B] or Obito won't be easily battling him and tricking him in kamui dimension :| or are u talking about direct boost from kurama

As i said , kakashi already explained to us that he still retained his boost to a lesser degree.

Cant be bothered to find the scan since im busy atm , but it seems i'll have to.

]
It should have one shotted the Jubbi minion seeing what the boost did to her Air palm

Why would it? , different attacks and ntn the cloak added would've changed its effects on the juubling.

]
dats the cloak :lol he was literally dying without it

Exactlyo.o

]
He would have gained Rinnegan then

Not instantly.

]
are u repeteadly saying Sasuke has Indra+Asura[aka SO6P] chakra without anything remotely close even being stated :|

Naruto's chakra is ashura's which means ashura's chakra was in the cloak.:|

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Kurama's and naruto's chakra only have one chakra system to travel through and coincidently , Indra's chakra runs through that same system , so when Sasuke gained the cloak , he gained ashura's chakra simultaneously.

 

[King Of Pop]

=neosmith500;20646148]Yes they can , only to a lesser degree.

scans of such?

Thats where ur wrong because shika had his claok externally and internally zapped by the shuinju , yet it still remained and was able to keep shika alive.

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huh? thats because naruto was the one doing it subscionsciously as ino clearly says

Spoiler

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however that wasnt the case against sasuke, once he lost the cloak here

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it never activated within him again, even when naruto went bm. if it still remained somewhat, it would have activated again the moment naruto charged up emotionally just like it did in that scan were katsuyu makes that statement about the cloak just diminishing in size.

Another example is the team cementing that the cloak doesn't completly vanish , but only diminishes in size.

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i countered this and it disproves your point if anything because it completely disppeared with sasuke, it didnt simply diminish evidenced by the fact that it didnt activate within him again

Last but not least is the scan where kakashi noted that even tho his cloak had vanished he still retained about a 10x boost from the diminished chakra within him.

what? scans of were kakashi said that as i dont recall

It mixes Naruto's and Kurama's Chakra with the Chakra of the host , the chakra passes through the body interally which is why the cloak is present and when this chakra diminishes , the claok gets smaller or vanishes completely.

Kurama's chakra isn't permanent tho but its duration is very long.

you still havent shown me the scan were it was stated it mixes with the internal chakra system of the host. and even then blazing brings up a point in which hinatas palm technique against the juubi minion wasnt any were near what she did when she had the cloak. if what you are saying is true, she should have been capable of doing what she did before without the cloak.

 

[BLAZE]

As i said , kakashi already explained to us that he still retained his boost to a lesser degree.

Cant be bothered to find the scan since im busy atm , but it seems i'll have to.

No he didn't

Why would it? , different attacks and ntn the cloak added would've changed its effects on the juubling.

literally it transformed this [

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into this [

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] so yeah it would have one shotted the minion.

Naruto's chakra is ashura's which means ashura's chakra was in the cloak.:|

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Which he lost and nvr retained later on

 

[neosmith500]

scans of such?

If the cloak diminishes then so does its power , but it doesn't vanish completely.

huh? thats because naruto was the one doing it subscionsciously as ino clearly says.

it never activated within him again, even when naruto went bm. if it still remained somewhat, it would have activated again the moment naruto charged up emotionally just like it did in that scan were katsuyu makes that statement about the cloak just diminishing in size.


i countered this and it disproves your point if anything because it completely disppeared with sasuke, it didnt simply diminish evidenced by the fact that it didnt activate within him again.

It never needed to activate again in Sasuke since he already gained the chakra to begin with and only lost the cloak a couple seconds , so even if the cloak disappeared doesn't mean the boost or its chakra completly vanished internally.

Also Shika's cloak didn't activate again after naruto went BSM , but only because of naruto's will to save shika , which made the chakra move on its own , so it doesn't correlate with sasuke's situation and it proves that the chakra naruto gave them was internal.

Shika got his external cloak zapped by shinju , while Sasuke lost his cloak after getting stomped into the ground , why would Sasuke lose all traces of his cloak from that but not shika?

what? scans of were kakashi said that as i dont recall

Ur right i misinterprited wat kakashi said in another scan , my bad.

you still havent shown me the scan were it was stated it mixes with the internal chakra system of the host.

The chakra isn't stuck on the outside , its within the users body which is why naruto was able to help shika even after the cloak was zapped by the shinju.

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If it didn't mix then shika would have no trace of the cloaks chakra , after the cloak got zapped.

and even then blazing brings up a point in which hinatas palm technique against the juubi minion wasnt any were near what she did when she had the cloak. if what you are saying is true, she should have been capable of doing what she did before without the cloak.

Blazing's point implies that Cloaked hinata using 64 palms , would have the same effect as Cloaked Hinata using Air-palm on the juubi's incoming tail attack.

When did cloaked hinata use 64 Palms and when did Hinata after cloak use Air-palm? why would her cloaked 64 p have the same effect as her Air-palm when it consist of compressing air and launching force which does not correlate with 64 palms since its a different technique?

No he didn't

I concede on that notion since i cant find the scan but if the chakra diminishes then logically so does its power , and if it doesn't diminish completly then the power isn't gone completely either.

literally it transformed this [

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into this [

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] so yeah it would have one shotted the minion.

Irrelevant , 64 palms is a different attack and doesn't knock away the enemy or attack with each palm strike like air-palm does.

Which he lost and nvr retained later on

Then u agree that ashura's chakra mixed with indra's.

 

[NarutoX28]

Again , as noted by Kakashi , even tho his cloak had vanished he still retained its boost to a lesser degree , which was about 10x the power of his normal chakra , in potency and volume , not to mention that kakshi lost his cloak for a much longer time than Sasuke did.

That's Kakashi. The lack of Kurama's Chakra signified by a lack of Kurama's Cloak applied to everyone else in the Alliance and Kishimoto clearly depicted Sasuke having access to Kurama's Chakra through the Cloak. Even then, Kurama's Chakra enabled Kakashi to use more chakra, but it did not increase his chakra potency at all, only the amount he could use in his Kamui. Even if what you're saying is true, Sasuke can still manifest PS because he has the chakra potency to do so, but on a lesser scale which even then, is unlikely because Kishimoto wanted to signify Naruto and Sasuke as equals.

I also like how u jump over the fact that Naruto's chakra which is Ashuura's chakra may or may not have influenced the speed of Sasuke's growth when it mixed with indra's chakra in the form of kurama's cloak.

Except Naruto's chakra was never a part of Sasuke, only Kurama's chakra which disappeared after Juubito's drop slam at the very least. The only reason why Kurama's chakra seemed like Naruto's according to Cee was because Kurama modified it for Naruto to manipulate it, but it never had the properties of Naruto's chakra.

 

[neosmith500]

That's Kakashi. The lack of Kurama's Chakra signified by a lack of Kurama's Cloak applied to everyone else in the Alliance and Kishimoto clearly depicted Sasuke having access to Kurama's Chakra through the Cloak. Even then, Kurama's Chakra enabled Kakashi to use more chakra, but it did not increase his chakra potency at all, only the amount he could use in his Kamui. Even if what you're saying is true, Sasuke can still manifest PS because he has the chakra potency to do so, but on a lesser scale which even then, is unlikely because Kishimoto wanted to signify Naruto and Sasuke as equals.

Sasuke still had the potential to use PS , but Kishi wanting to portray them as equals doesn't mean that one wasn't stronger than the other with VOTE2 bein a prime example of this , with Sasuke needing the bijuu in order to stalemate Naruto , so logically Naruto was much stronger at that point in time.

Naruto simply had more time to adjust to his BM/BSM and avatar powers earlier in the war while Sasuke had less time with his EMS powers , so it makes sense that he'd need a little help catching up to him IMO.

Except Naruto's chakra was never a part of Sasuke, only Kurama's chakra which disappeared after Juubito's drop slam at the very least. The only reason why Kurama's chakra seemed like Naruto's according to Cee was because Kurama modified it for Naruto to manipulate it, but it never had the properties of Naruto's chakra.

Bold doesn't make any sense and argues against the manga since Naruto's chakra is a part of kurama's.

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After obito's slam drop , the chakra would still be prsent inside Sasuke internally since the drop would do ntn to affect it.

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[lndra]

Honestly I think they'd tie, or Sasuke would win. Orochimaru said that Sasuke would one day have the power to surpass Madara, but that was only increased via Rikudou powers, which was never in the equation for Orochimaru in the first place.

No comment for the second scenario :lol

 

[King Of Pop]

=neosmith500;20646309]If the cloak diminishes then so does its power , but it doesn't vanish completely.

yes it does, at least in the case of sasuke which is clearly shown.

It never needed to activate again in Sasuke since he already gained the chakra to begin with and only lost the cloak a couple seconds , so even if the cloak disappeared doesn't mean the boost or its chakra completly vanished internally.

except he doesnt have any of it internally, thats the point. it doesnt mix with their internal chakra at least you have not provided any evidence, its called a cloak for a reason. and i dont get you here, if he still had the chakra internally, then surely it would have resurfaced the moment naruto charged up since it showed to respond to his emotion and considering sasuke just lost it like some secs ago it would still be fresh within him ready to activate again upon narutos will

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. sasuke was the only one among them not having a cloak on is further evidence that he was not in any way influenced by kuramas chakra and you cant claim it was internal because if it was then at point it would have resurfaced.

Also Shika's cloak didn't activate again after naruto went BSM , but only because of naruto's will to save shika , which made the chakra move on its own , so it doesn't correlate with sasuke's situation and it proves that the chakra naruto gave them was internal.

not really, all that would mean is that he narutos chakra moving helped him out with getting a cloak, basically another one, not because it was internal as that was not indicated.

Shika got his external cloak zapped by shinju , while Sasuke lost his cloak after getting stomped into the ground , why would Sasuke lose all traces of his cloak from that but not shika?

i didnt claim shika didnt lose it. however narutos chakra acting subconsciously possibly activated another one with him. it connected him again in an external way

Ur right i misinterprited wat kakashi said in another scan , my bad.

thought so

The chakra isn't stuck on the outside , its within the users body which is why naruto was able to help shika even after the cloak was zapped by the shinju.

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If it didn't mix then shika would have no trace of the cloaks chakra , after the cloak got zapped.

that doesnt mean its because the chakra is internal and even if that was the case, the fact that it didnt show up again on sasuke is proof for me. the cloak left and that was the end of it. you cant just assume its internal when it never showed up again nor was there any indication

Blazing's point implies that Cloaked hinata using 64 palms , would have the same effect as Cloaked Hinata using Air-palm on the juubi's incoming tail attack.

When did cloaked hinata use 64 Palms and when did Hinata after cloak use Air-palm? why would her cloaked 64 p have the same effect as her Air-palm when it consist of compressing air and launching force which does not correlate with 64 palms since its a different technique?

i think impact is what we are talking about. the overall impact should have been on the scale of the air palm regardless of if its a different attack.

 

[neosmith500]

yes it does, at least in the case of sasuke which is clearly shown.

except he doesnt have any of it internally, thats the point. it doesnt mix with their internal chakra at least you have not provided any evidence, its called a cloak for a reason. and i dont get you here, if he still had the chakra internally, then surely it would have resurfaced the moment naruto charged up since it showed to respond to his emotion and considering sasuke just lost it like some secs ago it would still be fresh within him ready to activate again upon narutos will

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. sasuke was the only one among them not having a cloak on is further evidence that he was not in any way influenced by kuramas chakra and you cant claim it was internal because if it was then at point it would have resurfaced.

Ur not understanding , The chakra diminishes to the point that it cant be externally seen , but is still internally present inside the chakra system , as sakura noticed when she was healing everyone before so how the heck can it not be internal?

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The reason why it never fully activated again with Sasuke is simply because Naruto had no reason to concentrate chakra into Sasuke for that purpose , nor would his "Will' to save Sasuke be strong enough to auto-start it like with Shika since sasuke was right beside Naruto and was obviously in a better condition.

K11 Already had visible kyubi chakra before they jumped and Its just simply called a Chakra cloak but is obviously different since the chakra is channeled internally and not just stuck on their bodies.

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Which is why Kakashi never gained a Cloak whe he first recieved Chakra from kurama , since the chakra was so little compared to what everyone gained later , nevertheless Kakashi could still pull limit-breaking feats.

not really, all that would mean is that he narutos chakra moving helped him out with getting a cloak, basically another one, not because it was internal as that was not indicated.

Naruto could not stimulate the kurama chakra inside shikamaru's body without the link , that connection of chakra he made when he first gave him km.

i didnt claim shika didnt lose it. however narutos chakra acting subconsciously possibly activated another one with him. it connected him again in an external way

And without the chakra bein internal , there would be no connection since the connection is chakra and chakra travels through the chakra network.

that doesnt mean its because the chakra is internal and even if that was the case, the fact that it didnt show up again on sasuke is proof for me. the cloak left and that was the end of it. you cant just assume its internal when it never showed up again nor was there any indication

Why would it show up again on Sasuke when Naruto has to actively focus and build chakra back into him?

Simply Activating BSM is not enough to generate chakra into Sasuke for him to have regained its Cloak and the time duration he spent without his kyubi chakra bein visible would not suggest it diminished completly inside his whole body , only that it was wreked externally along with his avatar by obito , which means he still had it internally.

i think impact is what we are talking about. the overall impact should have been on the scale of the air palm regardless of if its a different attack.

Again how would 64 plams be on the same or similar scale impact wise as Air-palm anyway? did u expect to see the juubling flying away with the first few pokes?

If u wana talk impact then use neji's 64 palms

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In comparison to Hinata.

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Look at the difference in size between the Chakra left from Neji's finger pokes compared to hinata.

 

[BLAZE]

Irrelevant , 64 palms is a different attack and doesn't knock away the enemy or attack with each palm strike like air-palm does.

Dude its not likke you can cherry pic which attac got stronger and which did not :|

Then u agree that ashura's chakra mixed with indra's.

No it was kurama's chakra predominently.It nvr mixed with Indra's chakra just added as a secondary source for power boost.

If u wana talk impact then use neji's 64 palms in comparison to hinata's.

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Bruh Neji used fingers to pinpoint while hinata used palm :|

 

[neosmith500]

Dude its not likke you can cherry pic which attac got stronger and which did not :|

Im not , just stating the obvious.

Air-palm uses force to knock things away so stronger air-palm = more force = ability to knock away bigger and stronger/heavier and much wider targets , while upgraded 64 palm would not share similar effects .:|. The most u would see from a upgraded 64 palm is bigger chakra left from the impacts of the hits , and hinata clearly showed this when compared to all neji's performances.

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Her 64 Palms showed superiority to neji's impact wise , knocked the juubling much farther than neji did naruto and even burnt its flesh , since ur looking at that.

No it was kurama's chakra predominently.It nvr mixed with Indra's chakra just added as a secondary source for power boost.

The bold is irrelevant since Ashurra's chakra was apart of it which u agreed with and wat u said after doesn't make any sense since the only place for ashura's chakra to travel through is the Chakra-Network , where indras chakra also resides , so unless Sasuke had a different Chakra network he used to store Ashura's chakra then im not sure wat ur point is.

Bruh Neji used fingers to pinpoint while hinata used palm :|

Dont let the Anime fool:| 64 palms targets the tenketsu with "Fingers" just like neji does it , not palms and hinata was clearly shown using her fingers apart from in the anime.

Tenketu has only ever in the whole manga been attacked and closed using the fingers , so nice catch with ur anime only content.:lol
:tea:

 

[BLAZE]

Im not , just stating the obvious.

Nope u are not

Air-palm uses force to knock things away so stronger air-palm = more force = ability to knock away bigger and stronger/heavier and much wider targets while upgraded 64 palm would not share similar effects .:|

Would u tae in mind she failed when already fallen Juubi minion was getting up again [

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Her 64 palms showed zero superiority to Part 1 Neji's.Thus she later on attacks it with twin lion fist

Her 64 Palms showed superiority to neji's impact wise and also knocked the juubling much farther than neji did naruto , since ur looking at that.


Dont let the Anime fool:| 64 palms targets the tenketsu with "Fingers" just like neji does it , not palms and hinata was clearly shown using her fingers apart from in the anime.

Tenketu has only ever in the whole manga been attacked and closed with using the fingers , so nice catch with ur anime only content.

Haven't watched naruto in lie 4 years [

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add the fact shewas only one to fail since
kiba;shino[took out 1];ino-shia-cho and Sakura all too out numerous clones.

The bold is irrelevant since Ashurra's chakra was apart of it which u agreed with and wat u said after doesn't make any sense since the only place for ashura's chakra to travel through is the Chakra-Network , where indras chakra also resides , so unless Sasuke had a different Chakra network he used to store Ashura's chakra then im not sure wat ur point is.

Chara needs to be molded to combine in one's system.Example naruto and kurama

by just having kurama inside him naruto's base stats dosen't increase