Adult ems sasuke vs ems madara

[Styles]

Sasuke never produced Legged Susanoo or PS by his own Chakra. He produced it because of Kurama's Chakra as the manga have shown. The so called portrayal is irrelevant because it was made by someone who never saw Madara's capabilities. Sasuke's portrayal to surpass Madara would be contradictory for the fact Naruto wasn't portrayed to surpass Hashirama, as both characters are in parallel. Sasuke's fans are desperate so they decided to hand-out feats.

He gets slaughtered in both scenarios with non-existent difficulty.

Naruto's chakra only make techniques stronger it doesn't develop a better Susano'o. Even then legged Susano'o was just V3 with legs. And Sasuke make PS himself without Kurama's chakra. That's known.

@Bold Sound like words of a hater honestly.

And Naruto was shown to have parallels to Hashirama. And Hashirama did say Naruto's and Kurama's chakra was on par with his own. And Tobirama made comparisons between them also. Just because it didn't specifically say he surpassed or was going to doesn't mean anything really it's still a parallel and it wasn't contradicted.

When Kakashi said Naruto surpassed all of the other kages was it contradicted because he never said Sasuke surpassed Madara?

 

[neosmith500]

Naruto's chakra only make techniques stronger it doesn't develop a better Susano'o. Even then legged Susano'o was just V3 with legs. And Sasuke make PS himself without Kurama's chakra. That's known.

Susano'o is a tech just like kamui and kakshi's got amped to the point it could snipe the juuubi and hachibi instantly the same way he previously sniped naruto's bm clone and he did this without a cloak since the chakra was still in him.

Why exactly would Naruto's chakra not give Sasuke similar limit breakers?

 

[Edogawa]

Naruto's chakra only make techniques stronger it doesn't develop a better Susano'o. Even then legged Susano'o was just V3 with legs. And Sasuke make PS himself without Kurama's chakra. That's known.

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The development of Susanoo was entirely dependent Kurama's Chakra. Just like how EMS Sasuke's Susanoo developed from Itachi's Chakra.

@Bold Sound like words of a hater honestly.

My hatred of characters does not affect my opinion on the match-up.

And Naruto was shown to have parallels to Hashirama. And Hashirama did say Naruto's and Kurama's chakra was on par with his own. And Tobirama made comparisons between them also. Just because it didn't specifically say he surpassed or was going to doesn't mean anything really it's still a parallel and it wasn't contradicted.

Tobirama meant that Naruto surpassed Hashirama in the manner he united all of the Shinobi World, which is something his predecessors could not do. He referred the same thing to Sasuke, that he was not angered by revenge. They didn't actually mean by power. Naruto and Sasuke only surpassed their predecessors when they gotten the power of Hagoromo; their previous forms stood nowhere near Hashirama and Madara. Feats speak that.

When Kakashi said Naruto surpassed all of the other kages was it contradicted because he never said Sasuke surpassed Madara?

Naruto and Sasuke already had Hagoromo's power when Kakashi made that statement. With Rikudou's power, they are stronger than their predecessors; without it, they will never be on their league.

 

[Styles]

Susano'o is a tech just like kamui and kakshi's got amped to the point it could snipe the juuubi and hachibi instantly the same way he previously sniped naruto's bm clone and he did this without a cloak since the chakra was still in him.

Why exactly would Naruto's chakra not give Sasuke similar limit breakers?

Uh that's what I said Kurama's chakra only enhance the abilities aka makes them stronger. Susano'o wasn't improved with that chakra just had an increase in power.

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The development of Susanoo was entirely dependent Kurama's Chakra. Just like how EMS Sasuke's Susanoo developed from Itachi's Chakra.



My hatred of characters does not affect my opinion on the match-up.



Tobirama meant that Naruto surpassed Hashirama in the manner he united all of the Shinobi World, which is something his predecessors could not do. He referred the same thing to Sasuke, that he was not angered by revenge. They didn't actually mean by power. Naruto and Sasuke only surpassed their predecessors when they gotten the power of Hagoromo; their previous forms stood nowhere near Hashirama and Madara. Feats speak that.



Naruto and Sasuke already had Hagoromo's power when Kakashi made that statement. With Rikudou's power, they are stronger than their predecessors; without it, they will never be on their league.

You do know the reason he was able to use PS was because Obito's chakra transmigrated into Kakashi? That of which still had Rikudou chakra. That's completely different from Naruto giving people chakra.

Then there is the fact that without Kurama's chakra Sasuke still made a PS and covered Kurama with it that of which the previous legged Susano'o and Kurama avatar along with the chakra Sasuke had was erased by the TSB Obito grabbed them with.

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Actually no. Their comparisons was Sasuke surpassing Madara(soon) and Naruto being like Hashirama. That's still no different than Kakashi saying Naruto surpassed Hashirama and nothing about Sasuke. There is no contradiction.

Sasuke at age 16/17 replicated Madara's best feat when Madara was most likely mid 30s with ease. Both had PS at also.

Without Rikudou chakra they would still be stronger than Madara/Hashirama especially as an adult. That much known.

 

[neosmith500]

Uh that's what I said Kurama's chakra only enhance the abilities aka makes them stronger. Susano'o wasn't improved with that chakra just had an increase in power.

It also makes the users chakra as a whole stronger and more powerful which allows them to pull bigger and better feats and much faster.

Sasuke's chakra was gradually getting stronger and stronger naturally over the war but its likely that getting a KM Cloak aided Sasuke in getting PS as quickly as he did.

Then there is the fact that without Kurama's chakra Sasuke still made a PS and covered Kurama with it that of which the previous legged Susano'o and Kurama avatar along with the chakra Sasuke had was erased by the TSB Obito grabbed them with.

Kurama Chakra lingers in the body after the cloak is removed as noted by kakashi and obito simply wreked their avatars , its doesn't erase internal chakra inside the user when its their avatars that got touched/grabed.

Sasuke at age 16/17 replicated Madara's best feat when Madara was most likely mid 30s with ease. Both had PS at also.

Sasuke at that age pulled that feat because sasuke at that age had EMS and gradually advanced through the war.

The age when izuna was killed and when madara gained EMS compared to Sasuke was different , give madara EMS at his age along with the same time and circumstances to advance and he would likely stem the results especially when the emotions felt by izuna's death would fuel Madara's advancement of Susano'o much quicker and quicken the progress of its stages faster than EMS Sasuke with hate.

 

[Edogawa]

You do know the reason he was able to use PS was because Obito's chakra transmigrated into Kakashi? That of which still had Rikudou chakra. That's completely different from Naruto giving people chakra.

This argument does not debunk the fact which Chakra hand-out boosts the receiver's techniques. We seen this when Tsunade gave Chakra to Onoki to enable him to use mega-Jinton; we seen this when Rikudou's Chakra was boosting Naruto's and Sasuke's techniques. Therefore, Sasuke had his techniques boosted when given Kurama's Chakra.

Then there is the fact that without Kurama's chakra Sasuke still made a PS and covered Kurama with it that of which the previous legged Susano'o and Kurama avatar along with the chakra Sasuke had was erased by the TSB Obito grabbed them with.

Naruto's and Sasuke's Chakra merged together when creating PS-Kurama. Why else would Konoha 11 suddenly gain a Jinchuuiki cloak the moment they entered the duo's mode?

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Actually no. Their comparisons was Sasuke surpassing Madara(soon) and Naruto being like Hashirama. That's still no different than Kakashi saying Naruto surpassed Hashirama and nothing about Sasuke. There is no contradiction.

They surpassed them when they gotten Hagoromo's hand-out, and that was foreshadowed to happen. They would have never surpassed them without Hagoromo's hand-out. BM Naruto would get demolished by Hashirama, and EMS Sasuke would get bisected by EMS Madara. Feats speak volume. Go get me feats to validate Kakashi's statement.

Sasuke at age 16/17 replicated Madara's best feat when Madara was most likely mid 30s with ease. Both had PS at also.

With hand-outs from Kurama and Hagoromo, he indeed replicated Madara's natural talent.

Without Rikudou chakra they would still be stronger than Madara/Hashirama especially as an adult. That much known.

When you show me feats that they could.

 

[Styles]

It also makes the users chakra as a whole stronger and more powerful which allows them to pull bigger and better feats and much faster.

Uh that's what I said. Kurama's chakra just made the attacks stronger. It was never shown to develop techniques.

Sasuke's chakra was gradually getting stronger and stronger naturally over the war but its likely that getting a KM Cloak aided Sasuke in getting PS as quickly as he did.

Not really it was somewhat foreshadowed that Sasuke was gonna use PS or legged Susano'o here.

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Kurama Chakra lingers in the body after the cloak is removed as noted by kakashi and obito simply wreked their avatars , its doesn't erase internal chakra inside the user when its their avatars that got touched/grabed.

It actually did even in the scans I showed you. Either A the impact made the chakra disperse or B it was erased. That's the properties of TSB. Their avatars are simply chakra constructs made from the users chakra.

Sasuke at that age pulled that feat because sasuke at that age had EMS and gradually advanced through the war.

Sasuke did everything Madara did with EMS as soon as he joined the war. And he haven't even trained with his EMS yet.

The age when izuna was killed and when madara gained EMS compared to Sasuke was different , give madara EMS at his age along with the same time and circumstances to advance and he would likely stem the results especially when the emotions felt by izuna's death would fuel Madara's advancement of Susano'o much quicker and quicken the progress of its stages faster than EMS Sasuke with hate.

When Madara got EMS they was a bit of peace in between. No different really from Sasuke waiting until he got use to his eyes.

Then Madara left the village went and tamed Kurama came and fought Hashirama. Used the same thing Sasuke did a bit later after he joined the war. All of their feats are the same just different circumstances.

This argument does not debunk the fact which Chakra hand-out boosts the receiver's techniques. We seen this when Tsunade gave Chakra to Onoki to enable him to use mega-Jinton; we seen this when Rikudou's Chakra was boosting Naruto's and Sasuke's techniques. Therefore, Sasuke had his techniques boosted when given Kurama's Chakra.

Uh still no different than what I said Tsunade gave Oonoki chakra that in turn boosted his jinton by a large margin. Same thing Kurama's chakra did it made the SA attacks stronger. Also I even said Sasuke's Susano'o had a strength boost. But that PS was all on him.

Naruto's and Sasuke's Chakra merged together when creating PS-Kurama. Why else would Konoha 11 suddenly gain a Jinchuuiki cloak the moment they entered the duo's mode?

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Uh because Naruto gave it to them. If that was the case then Sasuke would have had one also. It wasn't as much of a mix it was Sasuke using his PS to cover Kurama avatar. Same as what Madara did.

They surpassed them when they gotten Hagoromo's hand-out, and that was foreshadowed to happen. They would have never surpassed them without Hagoromo's hand-out. BM Naruto would get demolished by Hashirama, and EMS Sasuke would get bisected by EMS Madara. Feats speak volume. Go get me feats to validate Kakashi's statement.

Yea no not really as a teen BM/BSM Naruto already had chakra on par with Hashirama. And EMS Sasuke was already showing feats that adult Madara already did. Rikudou chakra put them far beyond what SM Hashirama and EMS Madara could even think of.

With hand-outs from Kurama and Hagoromo, he indeed replicated Madara's natural talent.



When you show me feats that they could.

Yea he really didn't.

 

[Edogawa]

Snip

I'll concede that Sasuke has PS, but it's not nowhere near as powerful as EMS Madara. Rinnegan Sasuke, with boost from Hagoromo's Chakra, became able to replicate EMS Madara's DC feats.

 

[neosmith500]

Uh that's what I said. Kurama's chakra just made the attacks stronger. It was never shown to develop techniques.

No , but the increase in chakra potency and power makes it easier to develop techniques faster.

Not really it was somewhat foreshadowed that Sasuke was gonna use PS or legged Susano'o here.

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Thats too vague , and as i said , he was naturally progressing over time.
But leg susano'o is possible bu does ntn to debunk my point.

It actually did even in the scans I showed you. Either A the impact made the chakra disperse or B it was erased. That's the properties of TSB. Their avatars are simply chakra constructs made from the users chakra.

Having the chakra disperse would do ntn to affect the internal chakra along with the fact that having Senjutsu in the avatars would negate the effects of TSB , so obito simply wreked them.

When Madara got EMS they was a bit of peace in between. No different really from Sasuke waiting until he got use to his eyes.

When madara gained EMS he challenged the senju clan which resulted in a off panel all out battle which u and i have no proof that he did or didn't use PS.

Based on the fact that izuna , his last brother just died , it stands to reason that madara would've naturally progressed faster in Susan'o stages than sasuke due to the fresh hate.

Then Madara left the village went and tamed Kurama came and fought Hashirama. Used the same thing Sasuke did a bit later after he joined the war. All of their feats are the same just different circumstances.

Exactly , the only thing that separates them is the time and circumstances involved in gaining EMS.

Sasuke had the same feat at a younger age because he had EMS younger than madara and his whole progress was on panel , unlike madara.

 

[Styles]

I'll concede that Sasuke has PS, but it's not nowhere near as powerful as EMS Madara. Rinnegan Sasuke, with boost from Hagoromo's Chakra, became able to replicate EMS Madara's DC feats.

Logically we don't know Madara's destruction power as just EMS. Because he had Kurama with it. And the second time he had Rikudou chakra(Rinnegan) and Hashirama's chakra(boob).

No , but the increase in chakra potency and power makes it easier to develop techniques faster.

Well if that was the case then instead of legged Susano'o he would have busted out PS of the get go wouldn't he?

Thats too vague , and as i said , he was naturally progressing over time.
But leg susano'o is possible bu does ntn to debunk my point.

How so? What other Susano'o would he have used to compliment/fight alongside Kurama's avatar?

Having the chakra disperse would do ntn to affect the internal chakra along with the fact that having Senjutsu in the avatars would negate the effects of TSB , so obito simply wreked them.

He rek'd them bad enough for where Naruto's cloak got dispersed?

When madara gained EMS he challenged the senju clan which resulted in a off panel all out battle which u and i have no proof that he did or didn't use PS.

Well if he did then wouldn't we be seeing wood everywhere in that panel showing that Hashirama had fought it?

Based on the fact that izuna , his last brother just died , it stands to reason that madara would've naturally progressed faster in Susan'o stages than sasuke due to the fresh hate.

That would be the same for Sasuke since Tobi(obito) said Sasuke "shouldered the Uchiha's hatred on his shoulders" then the fact he had found the truth about Itachi and Konoha which made him rage more than ever.

Exactly , the only thing that separates them is the time and circumstances involved in gaining EMS.

Sasuke had the same feat at a younger age because he had EMS younger than madara and his whole progress was on panel , unlike madara.

Except it wasn't much as progress. More like busting out new techniques when time calls for it.

 

[Edogawa]

Logically we don't know Madara's destruction power as just EMS. Because he had Kurama with it. And the second time he had Rikudou chakra(Rinnegan) and Hashirama's chakra(boob).

Susanoo only acted as an armour for Kurama. Its cutting power was not enhanced by Kurama, and it cut mountain range like Rinnegan Sasuke. Edo Madara's Rinnegan is fake, thus no Rikudou Chakra, and Hashirama's cells didn't enhance his PS.

 

[TheSages456]

The restrictions are pointless since Sasuke doesn't have Hagoromo's chakra, not that it matters anyway.

Sasuke's PS & Madara's PS basically cancel out outside of PS chidori, which is stronger than a PS slash based on it's feats at VOTE against Kurama.

Author's intent dictates that Sasuke would eventually surpass Madara, so he wins here.

He loses scenario 2 for obvious reasons.

 

[AnonymousShinobi]

I'll concede that Sasuke has PS, but it's not nowhere near as powerful as EMS Madara. Rinnegan Sasuke, with boost from Hagoromo's Chakra, became able to replicate EMS Madara's DC feats.

Here you go spewing nonesense on Versus Colosseum again.

Rinnegan Sasuke w/ Hagoromo's Chakra showed destructive feats WAY above EMS Madara's. Link me to EMS Madara's best Susanoo PS feat? Cause off the top of my head all I can remember is His PS + Kyuubi Fusion cutting the

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Cool. Sasuke's Rikudo PS was cutting Meteors that make Mountains look like

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Lets take a closer look:

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Now your first point is fair. Madara's EMS PS is god tier compared to Sasuke's EMS PS. But it's not really fair, actually. We are comparing a Madara in his prime (probably 30+ years old, just a guess), to a Teenage Sasuke who only had EMS for a week, if not less. Based on evidence from the manga (read the first couple of pages), it should be obvious that Adult Sasuke would be above Madara. In two years the guys Chidori stream went from basic, to disintegrating a meteor that would've crushed Konoha.

 

[NextGenNinja]

Here you go spewing nonesense on Versus Colosseum again.

Rinnegan Sasuke w/ Hagoromo's Chakra showed destructive feats WAY above EMS Madara's. Link me to EMS Madara's best Susanoo PS feat? Cause off the top of my head all I can remember is His PS + Kyuubi Fusion cutting the

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Cool. Sasuke's Rikudo PS was cutting Meteors that make Mountains look like

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Lets take a closer look:

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Now your first point is fair. Madara's EMS PS is god tier compared to Sasuke's EMS PS. But it's not really fair, actually. We are comparing a Madara in his prime (probably 30+ years old, just a guess), to a Teenage Sasuke who only had EMS for a week, if not less. Based on evidence from the manga (read the first couple of pages), it should be obvious that Adult Sasuke would be above Madara. In two years the guys Chidori stream went from basic, to disintegrating a meteor that would've crushed Konoha.

Idk if this will help your argument but sasuke also seemed to have destroyed the CT's gravity core as well. It took a bijuudama, yasaka beeds and a FRS to destroy a regular CT. JJ madara's version would easily be much stronger as shown by the huge rubble.

 

[neosmith500]

Well if that was the case then instead of legged Susano'o he would have busted out PS of the get go wouldn't he?

Not really , he progressed to legged Susano'o atm , then advanced.

How so? What other Susano'o would he have used to compliment/fight alongside Kurama's avatar?

Legged Susano'o.

He rek'd them bad enough for where Naruto's cloak got dispersed?

When inside , Naruto cloak is basically connected to his avatar and if ur right that Obito was able to erase the internal chakra of sasuke/naruto then they would not be able to use PS/Kyubs Combo.

The chakra got dispersed from the avatars which as i said before does not affect their internal chakra since that would mean no more jutsu at all.

Well if he did then wouldn't we be seeing wood everywhere in that panel showing that Hashirama had fought it?

Its a off-panel fight , just like when the sound 4 fought gema and raido in the forest , we saw no siqns of the sound 4's abilities bein used at all.

That would be the same for Sasuke since Tobi(obito) said Sasuke "shouldered the Uchiha's hatred on his shoulders" then the fact he had found the truth about Itachi and Konoha which made him rage more than ever.

Im talking about EMS Sasuke who already learned the truth about itachi and was willing to subdue his hate.

In Madara's case it would be like Sasuke if he had EMS while still going on his hatefilled revenge ops , basically MS Sasuke with EMS looking for revenge.

So EMS Madara had more revenge filled hate to progress his susano'o faster.

Except it wasn't much as progress. More like busting out new techniques when time calls for it.

The moment he got EMS , his Susano'o stage steadily progressed.

 

[Styles]

Susanoo only acted as an armour for Kurama. Its cutting power was not enhanced by Kurama, and it cut mountain range like Rinnegan Sasuke. Edo Madara's Rinnegan is fake, thus no Rikudou Chakra, and Hashirama's cells didn't enhance his PS.

Uh yes it does. Lol and uh he still had Rikudou chakra as edo because he had Ashura and Indra's chakra in him.

Unless when Madara was revived he suddenly had Rikudou chakra in him again.

Not really , he progressed to legged Susano'o atm , then advanced.


Legged Susano'o.

Legged Susano'o is also just a V3 same as PS being a V4 just stabilized.

When inside , Naruto cloak is basically connected to his avatar and if ur right that Obito was able to erase the internal chakra of sasuke/naruto then they would not be able to use PS/Kyubs Combo.

Actually they would have onmyoudon can't erase internal chakra. But the cloak they had wasn't internal but external. If Naruto gave Sasuke chakra for PS he would have a cloak but he didn't. Or same could be said for Naruto since he was in Sasuke's chakra too.

The chakra got dispersed from the avatars which as i said before does not affect their internal chakra since that would mean no more jutsu at all.

Those cloaks aren't internal it's external. It can be touched internal chakra can't.

Im talking about EMS Sasuke who already learned the truth about itachi and was willing to subdue his hate.

In Madara's case it would be like Sasuke if he had EMS while still going on his hatefilled revenge ops , basically MS Sasuke with EMS looking for revenge.

So EMS Madara had more revenge filled hate to progress his susano'o faster.

Not really because Madara also for a while never wanted revenge of at all. All he did was want to active his infinite Tsykuyomi.

The moment he got EMS , his Susano'o stage steadily progressed.

At best with EMS he learned how to stabilize it's forms.

 

[neosmith500]

Legged Susano'o is also just a V3 same as PS being a V4 just stabilized.

Doesn't matter , it can only be done with EMS level power.

It takes the combined chakra/power of two MS to use legged Susano'o.

Actually they would have onmyoudon can't erase internal chakra. But the cloak they had wasn't internal but external. If Naruto gave Sasuke chakra for PS he would have a cloak but he didn't. Or same could be said for Naruto since he was in Sasuke's chakra too.

Those cloaks aren't internal it's external. It can be touched internal chakra can't.

Even without the cloak , the chakra is still present in the users chakra system.

Sasuke had Kurama , Naruto and Ashura's chakra running through his chakra system without the Cloak bein visible .

How do u know that ashura's chakra mixing with indra's didn't allow sasuke to advance as quickly as he did?

Not really because Madara also for a while never wanted revenge of at all. All he did was want to active his infinite Tsykuyomi.

What are u even talking about?:lol im referring to Madara after izuna was killed and madara was hot for revenge which would speed up his progress , remember MS Sasuke??

At best with EMS he learned how to stabilize it's forms.

Progress my friend , progress.

EMS gave him more power , with the ability to stabilize it , it didn't simply give him the ability to stabilize his current MS power which is wat ur implying?:lol

 

[Edogawa]

AnonymousShinobi,

That page where the fragment makes mountains look tiny is the fragment of two CT's that Naruto and Sasuke blasted is what dwarfs mountains. Madara's CT's were already shown to be equal in width to the Shinju's trunk, [

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]. That same Shinju's trunk that has a width equivalent to mountain range, [

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]. EMS Madara's PS has shown it could cut mountain range, so in the same scenario as Rinnegan Sasuke, it would have cut those CT's as well. Those CT's have no durability feats that suggests they can't be cut, considering they are a collection of rock materials that Madara casually slashed.

★Gaiya,

Obito said that real Rinnegan carries its own Chakra (Hagoromo's Chakra), [

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]. That Chakra didn't spout throughout Madara's body. The Chakra itself is in the eye; once it's removed, the Chakra is also removed. Edo Madara didn't have Hagoromo's Chakra, as his Rinnegan was fake.​

 

[NarutoX28]

EMS Sasuke could've formed a Legged Susano'o through Kurama's Chakra, but he then formed Perfect Susano'o on his lonesome to cement the fact that he was Naruto's equal. Manga made it clear that his Ocular Prowess was still in development and I find it difficult to believe that Sasuke manifested PS through Kurama's Chakra when Sasuke's prime indicator of using Kurama's Chakra (the cloak) was missing entirely.

 

[neosmith500]

EMS Sasuke could've formed a Legged Susano'o through Kurama's Chakra, but he then formed Perfect Susano'o on his lonesome to cement the fact that he was Naruto's equal. Manga made it clear that his Ocular Prowess was still in development and I find it difficult to believe that Sasuke manifested PS through Kurama's Chakra when Sasuke's prime indicator of using Kurama's Chakra (the cloak) was missing entirely.

Again , as noted by Kakashi , even tho his cloak had vanished he still retained its boost to a lesser degree , which was about 10x the power of his normal chakra , in potency and volume , not to mention that kakshi lost his cloak for a much longer time than Sasuke did.

I also like how u jump over the fact that Naruto's chakra which is Ashuura's chakra may or may not have influenced the speed of Sasuke's growth when it mixed with indra's chakra in the form of kurama's cloak.