[Question] Ace pretty weak?

[Banisher]

Do you think Luffy is much stronger with 19, than Ace when he was 20?
Could Ace use Haki?

 

[OG sama]

Luffy is stronger at least to me.

Ace can use Haki but its probably not that good.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I doubt Ace utilized Haki. And I do think Luffy would beat him.

 

[Black Mamba]

Current Luffy is way stronger than Ace.

There is no indication that Ace can use haki. But by hype as a WB commander he should be able to use basic haki.

 

[iNotorious]

Ace > Luffy.

Ace the best.

 

[nandachikara]

in terms of speed and power ace is outclassed by luffy...but in terms of df and experience ace trumps

 

[BSK]

Yes luffy is way stronger and ace was no skilled at haki from what we seen

 

[ToshiZO]

Blame the haki issue on Oda not having Haki properly planned out. No way you are one of the top commanders of a Yonkou crew and not know haki. People like Tashigi and fodders from the coliseum have Haki.....

This would mean if Ace were in Punk Hazard instead of Luffy he would get destroyed by the likes of Caesar Clown. Which is pathetic for someone with that high a rank in WB's crew.

Everybody and their mothers have haki.

Ace is intended to have Haki, Crocodile as well. You don't survive in the new world without atleast CoA, let alone thrive in it.

Btw Luffy >= Ace IMO.

 

[BSK]

in terms of speed and power ace is outclassed by luffy...but in terms of df and experience ace trumps

How does ace have more experience and ace df is overrated even luffy df is better than aces from what we see luffy do.

 

[-Akuma-]

Ace most likely did have haki, it was unclear on the whole haki thing pre TS. Ace is by no means weak.

How does ace have more experience and ace df is overrated even luffy df is better than aces from what we see luffy do.

.......

 

[BSK]

Blame the haki issue on Oda not having Haki properly planned out. No way you are one of the top commanders of a Yonkou crew and not know haki. People like Tashigi and fodders from the coliseum have Haki.....

This would mean if Ace were in Punk Hazard instead of Luffy he would get destroyed by the likes of Caesar Clown. Which is pathetic for someone with that high a rank in WB's crew.

Everybody and their mothers have haki.

Ace is intended to have Haki, Crocodile as well. You don't survive in the new world without atleast CoA, let alone thrive in it.

Btw Luffy >= Ace IMO.

Oda did not plan out haki but ace would lose to ceaser he can cancle out the affects of his df and also poison him if he gets too clos. He was able to survive in the new world because of wb. Ace is overrated and wasnts that strong he relied on his df intagibility too much. He most likely had haki but was not skilled with it.

 

[nandachikara]

How does ace have more experience and ace df is overrated even luffy df is better than aces from what we see luffy do.

ace has a logia df that in the right hand it could create havoc,could split a ship in half,he could face off against kuzan,his df was powerful enough to make him famous,and ace's df is a logia.even bb wanted ace's df...when sabo got the mera mera no mi powers,you have to admit he became really close to...if not admiral level.

ace became a pirate before luffy..he left 2 or 3 years earlier before luffy to become a pirate...became a captain of his own crew,before becoming a commander in wb pirate crew.am sure he has more experience in using his haoshoku haki...also am sure he know a little bit of armament haki.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Blame the haki issue on Oda not having Haki properly planned out. No way you are one of the top commanders of a Yonkou crew and not know haki. People like Tashigi and fodders from the coliseum have Haki.....

No you can't. Oda had about 13 cases of Armament Haki prior to the timeskip. He could have shown Ace using it at least once. Thats not an excuse.

Tashigi knows Haki because her fighting style demands it. Ace's does not.

This would mean if Ace were in Punk Hazard instead of Luffy he would get destroyed by the likes of Caesar Clown. Which is pathetic for someone with that high a rank in WB's crew.

It's certainly possible. As Monet said, it's not always the strongest person that wins. Caesar beat Luffy as well once.

Everybody and their mothers have haki.

Ace is intended to have Haki, Crocodile as well. You don't survive in the new world without atleast CoA, let alone thrive in it.

Tell that to Caesar, Buffalo, Machvise, Senor Pink, Kyros, Dellinger, King Riku, Monet, Rebecca and almost all the citizens of Dressrosa.

Also, why haven't the Strawhats not including the Monster Trio die yet, then?

 

[-Akuma-]

Oda did not plan out haki but ace would lose to ceaser he can cancle out the affects of his df and also poison him if he gets too clos. He was able to survive in the new world because of wb. Ace is overrated and wasnts that strong he relied on his df intagibility too much. He most likely had haki but was not skilled with it.

Even though Ace had became a super rookie without WB.....Plus it's stated Ace's basic fighting skills are on par with the other commanders.

 

[BSK]

Ace most likely did have haki, it was unclear on the whole haki thing pre TS. Ace is by no means weak.



.......

Luffy df gives him g2 g3 g4 can use arament haki while keeping his body elastic, faster speed, better defense, greater damage. Ace can do a bunch of fire attacks from what we seen

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Ace isn't weak.....and why does everyone think Oda of all people didn't plan out haki of all things? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard about OP.....

 

[-Akuma-]

Luffy df gives him g2 g3 g4 can use arament haki while keeping his body elastic, faster speed, better defense, greater damage. Ace can do a bunch of fire attacks from what we seen

G2 G3 in general are all piss poor if you have shit bas stats hence why Luffy wasn't beating Ace pre TS, G4 requires haki. While the range of fire moves and all round logia phasing is way better than anything Luffy's DF has to offer.

 

[ToshiZO]

No you can't. Oda had about 13 cases of Armament Haki prior to the timeskip. He could have shown Ace using it at least once. Thats not an excuse.

I guess Mihawk has no haki either...Doflamingo wasn't shown to have Haki in the war either.

Yes you can. Clearly not well thought out. Just the fact that we are seeing so many people use armament hardening now (including Garp via flashback) but not in the war shows you Oda hardly had this planned out.

Tashigi knows Haki because her fighting style demands it. Ace's does not.

haha there is no such thing as demanding haki as your fighting style...it is essential.

It's certainly possible. As Monet said, it's not always the strongest person that wins. Caesar beat Luffy as well once.

Tell Monet to repeat those words after Zoro made her shit her pants. Luffy didn't have intel, im talking Ace with intel would still lose.

Tell that to Caesar, Buffalo, Machvise, Senor Pink, Kyros, Dellinger, King Riku, Monet, Rebecca and almost all the citizens of Dressrosa.

Lol are the citizens of Dressrosa trying to survive out in the seas? Horrible example. Are the citizens of Dressrosa the 2nd division commanders of the Whitebeard Pirates, are any of them a shichibukai that calls the New World their home?

Also, why haven't the Strawhats not including the Monster Trio die yet, then?

Lol what? Maybe cause they aren't the ones doing the fighting in the crew? Now if they survived without the Monster Trio doing the fighting, then you have a point.

Oda did not plan out haki but ace would lose to ceaser he can cancle out the affects of his df and also poison him if he gets too clos. He was able to survive in the new world because of wb. Ace is overrated and wasnts that strong he relied on his df intagibility too much. He most likely had haki but was not skilled with it.

This is possible, but he definitely was intended to have Haki. Ace not showing Haki pre skip means absolutely nothing. A bunch of strong fighters didn't show Haki cause Oda hardly knew what he was doing.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I guess Mihawk has no haki either...Doflamingo wasn't shown to have Haki in the war either.[/SPOILER]
Neither of them were in a situation that required them to use it. Ace on the other hand engaged a Logia he was trying to kill, and didn't use Haki, not even once. Not when he thought he would need it to touch Teach, and not to enhance his own attacks.

Yes you can. Clearly not well thought out. Just the fact that we are seeing so many people use armament hardening now (including Garp via flashback) but not in the war shows you Oda hardly had this planned out.

No, you really can't. Oda is the master of planning ahead. By the time of Ace's death, you had at least 13 displays of Busoshoku. None of which conflict with the current concept of it. How can Oda have 13 examples of Busoshoku that don't conflict with his story AND provide the official explanation for what Haki is prior to the timeskip if he was half-assing Haki prior to the timeskip?

haha there is no such thing as demanding haki as your fighting style...it is essential.

Not necessarily. There are people who don't need Haki per se. For example, Enel and Law. By simply improving their physical stats and DF, they don't need Haki. Ace is the same. His fighting style revolves around launching flames at his opponent. He does not engage in physical blows with his body often, so he doesn't NEED Busoshoku for his fighting style, simply to make his flames stronger and stronger. Other examples would be Teach, Caesar or Magellan.

Tell Monet to repeat those words after Zoro made her shit her pants. Luffy didn't have intel, im talking Ace with intel would still lose.

That doesn't change she was capable of surviving in the NW without Haki for quite some time. She also came VERY close to killing Luffy despite the overwhelming gap between their power. Luffy also beat Doflamingo despite not being stronger than him. Her words ring true.

Lol are the citizens of Dressrosa trying to survive out in the seas? Horrible example. Are the citizens of Dressrosa the 2nd division commanders of the Whitebeard Pirates, are any of them a shichibukai that calls the New World their home?

Doesn't change that they are people surviving in the NW without Haki.

Lol what? Maybe cause they aren't the ones doing the fighting in the crew? Now if they survived without the Monster Trio doing the fighting, then you have a point.

Because they're never not away from the M3, right?

 

[ToshiZO]

Neither of them were in a situation that required them to use it. Ace on the other hand engaged a Logia he was trying to kill, and didn't use Haki, not even once. Not when he thought he would need it to touch Teach, and not to enhance his own attacks.

Lol are you sure about that? Listen to yourself, Mihawk aimed a slash at the "WORLDS STRONGEST MAN" and you're telling me he wasn't in a situation that required Haki? Which Logia did Ace engage....Akainu? How do you know if Haki was or was not used from that panel? Please do tell.....

No, you really can't. Oda is the master of planning ahead. By the time of Ace's death, you had at least 13 displays of Busoshoku. None of which conflict with the current concept of it. How can Oda have 13 examples of Busoshoku that don't conflict with his story AND provide the official explanation for what Haki is prior to the timeskip if he was half-assing Haki prior to the timeskip?

Chill out, this is why people call One Piece fans tards, Oda is no God. The dude makes mistakes here and there, Haki is clearly not one of the things he planned for in the long run. He had the concept thought out but he didn't know what he wanted to do in detail. Armament hardening for example is him expanding it. I already gave you a clear example of a character who is known as a haki Beast Garp, not once showing armament hardening in the war, but in the flashback we saw him use hardening. This is because Oda didn't even himself know what hardening was at the time.

Not necessarily. There are people who don't need Haki per se. For example, Enel and Law. By simply improving their physical stats and DF, they don't need Haki. Ace is the same. His fighting style revolves around launching flames at his opponent. He does not engage in physical blows with his body often, so he doesn't NEED Busoshoku for his fighting style, simply to make his flames stronger and stronger. Other examples would be Teach, Caesar or Magellan.

haha again listen to yourself. Law MUST have Haki to thrive if he doesn't have Haki he doesn't even get past the likes of Caesar clown and Smoker, not to mention haki was needed to defeat Vergo. This is getting ridiculous. Take Haki away from Law and he isn't even on Sanji's tier. It is a must to have Haki, its not something that compliments your style it is something you NEED if you are to be fighting strong opponents.

That doesn't change she was capable of surviving in the NW without Haki for quite some time. She also came VERY close to killing Luffy despite the overwhelming gap between their power. Luffy also beat Doflamingo despite not being stronger than him. Her words ring true.

Please consider the actual situation that took place instead of using this as an example lol. Her words don't wring true at all, Caesar got whooped and so did she. Doflamingo needed a tag team of Law and Luffy along with some other outside help.

Doesn't change that they are people surviving in the NW without Haki.

Ok?

Because they're never not away from the M3, right?

Oh yes because the M3 aren't fighting the main threats to the weaker SH's in turn protecting them?


Your post didn't counter anything I said. It still stands, Haki is a must and Oda simply didn't plan out the details of Haki, though he did have the concept of it.