[Discussion] Ace is easily the most underrated person in op.

[Forbidden Tale]

From 1-3, Ace might not have needed Haki to fight and survive in the New World because he was a member of Whitebeard's ship. They fought together. If they attacked someone or were attacked, Ace merely fought someone that he didn't need Haki for and left someone like Marco or Jozu to fight people that you need Haki for. Ace survived because he had WB pirates backing him up. Remember when Buggy's crew wanted to kill Ace and Buggy said no because killing Ace meant facing the wrath of Whitebeard? Anyone who could kill Ace in the New World, who were worth their salt in other words, would definitely know about Whitebeard. Ace survived because he had the Whitebeard Pirates in his corner.

Donquixote pirates also fight together, but we saw some lower ranking member having haki. WB was shown to have haki, WB was man comparable with Pirate King. So basiclly to be Pirate King you would need to learn haki. Ace was trained to be next PK.
Ace was protected by WB, but WB was old and probably aware that he will soon die. Who will then protect Ace and his crew? It would be natural, for WB to teach Ace (and other members) haki, since one day they will no longer be under his protection.

1. Ace stalemated with a Logia because he couldn't harm his physical body
2. He has no qualms about potentially killing his enemies
3. He hit Teach, a man he was trying to kill, with an attack not laced with Haki, right after he was told Teach is a Logia
4. Even before coming up with Buso: Koka, Oda had more than 12 people exhibit Haki prior to the timeskip, even minor characters, but didn't depict Ace, not once, using Buso: Koka, and Ace is a significant character

When Logia vs Logia happen, user could just use their fruit powers, instead of haki.

When you lump all of these facts together, you get that Ace never used Busoshoku because he either couldn't, or he's stupid, and Ace isn't stupid.

Or he didn't bother to use it, since he himself is logia, and all his opponents were logia (Smoker, BB, Aokiji, Akainu).

 

[Vandenre1ch]

I think that both Sabo and Ace currently use orange flames and that someone who masters the fruit to its full potential can use blue flames. Ace never mastered his fruit unlike Luffy because he had the WB Pirates helping him while Luffy needed to master his fruit to fight his opponents.

Don't think so. We already have someone using blue flames: Marco. As far as we seen, you can't manipulate the temperature of an elemental fruit. If that was the case, Akainu could've increased the temperature of his magma to burn Marco's blue flame phoniex arms. Akainu had his fruit for decades.

 

[Corgi]

Donquixote pirates also fight together, but we saw some lower ranking member having haki. WB was shown to have haki, WB was man comparable with Pirate King. So basiclly to be Pirate King you would need to learn haki. Ace was trained to be next PK.
Ace was protected by WB, but WB was old and probably aware that he will soon die. Who will then protect Ace and his crew? It would be natural, for WB to teach Ace (and other members) haki, since one day they will no longer be under his protection.



When Logia vs Logia happen, user could just use their fruit powers, instead of haki.



Or he didn't bother to use it, since he himself is logia, and all his opponents were logia (Smoker, BB, Aokiji, Akainu).

WB may have known that he was going to die soon, but no one else did.

Ace being a Logia himself is a stupid reason as to why he'd never use Haki if he had it. Against another Logia, you need Haki. There have only been three cases where Haki wasn't needed. "Logia vs Logia doesn't need Haki" makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Don't think so. We already have someone using blue flames: Marco. As far as we seen, you can't manipulate the temperature of an elemental fruit. If that was the case, Akainu could've increased the temperature of his magma to burn Marco's blue flame phoniex arms. Akainu had his fruit for decades.

Fire has different variations like red, orange, yellow, blue, and white while magma does not. I could definitely see Oda giving Sabo blue fire, it would look very good on Sabo and blue fire is slightly hotter than magma's max temperature so he would need that to beat Akainu.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

WB may have known that he was going to die soon, but no one else did.

Ace being a Logia himself is a stupid reason as to why he'd never use Haki if he had it. Against another Logia, you need Haki. There have only been three cases where Haki wasn't needed. "Logia vs Logia doesn't need Haki" makes no sense whatsoever.

In that case WB would just force them to train..

If he used haki, it would end with BB using his own, which would mean particulary the same thing.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

Like you said earlier fire has an advantage over ice, replace Aokiji with Kizaru and Ace wouldn't have countered it, and we all know what would happen if it was Akainu. Jozu isn't Ace's superior rank wise yes, but he is his superior strength wise.

Borsalino I think Ace would have lost, obviously, but he would have given Borsalino an extreme diff fight. Borsalino is overrated, if you can catch him before his charge time is finished it is very easy to do some damage. Sakazuki would find it easier beating Ace since he said himself fire is a key component in his devil fruit, he can pretty much subdue Aces attacks which is why I think it would be a mid diff win for him.

Nope, I don't think so anyway. Jozu has never fully been transformed into diamond, that leaves a whole side for Ace to attack.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Borsalino I think Ace would have lost, obviously, but he would have given Borsalino an extreme diff fight. Borsalino is overrated, if you can catch him before his charge time is finished it is very easy to do some damage. Sakazuki would find it easier beating Ace since he said himself fire is a key component in his devil fruit, he can pretty much subdue Aces attacks which is why I think it would be a mid diff win for him.

Nope, I don't think so anyway. Jozu has never fully been transformed into diamond, that leaves a whole side for Ace to attack.

What's stopping Jozu from covering that part with Haki? Ace's durability isnt that good, one punch from BB almost broke his neck, just imagine what a punch from Jozu would do.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

What's stopping Jozu from covering that part with Haki? Ace's durability isnt that good, one punch from BB almost broke his neck, just imagine what a punch from Jozu would do.

If he could do that why didn't he do it when he was frozen? That way he wouldn't have lost an arm xD

Good point, but all Ace needs to do is counter his hits. Just because Jozu is big, strong and has CoA doesn't mean he will win, I mean look at him vs Kuzan

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

If he could do that why didn't he do it when he was frozen? That way he wouldn't have lost an arm xD

Good point, but all Ace needs to do is counter his hits. Just because Jozu is big, strong and has CoA doesn't mean he will win, I mean look at him vs Kuzan

Jozu was distracted by WBs heart attack so he didnt have CoA on him at the time.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

Jozu was distracted by WBs heart attack so he didnt have CoA on him at the time.

It doesn't work like that xD omg, your arguments are horrible.

Haki is always with someone, just they can't activate it at certain times. This is shown when characters get distracted or something bad happens which either improves or worsens haki, like you said when Jozu saw Newgate flip out.

So ye, decent point. My point still stands, just because he has CoA doesn't mean he will beat Ace since he lost against a logia already despite having it and being a heavy hitter.

 

[The 1 who knows]

ace is underated.....you should remember that when he made his debut, he was not just a super rookie(supernova), he was a super, super rookie (super supanova) the WG even offered him a seat in the shkibukai despite knowing he was the son of the PK. That should tell you alot!

saying that ace had no haki is wrong....in part 1, oda hadnt fully visualised the concept of haki.....and if you choose to stick to a 1 dimensional argument that he had no haki...it means you are simply saying he survived in theNW with no haki, how many characters have done that? it simply means he is OP

 

[The 1 who knows]

What's stopping Jozu from covering that part with Haki? Ace's durability isnt that good, one punch from BB almost broke his neck, just imagine what a punch from Jozu would do.

underatting bb now are we? look at shanks face....a fruitless bb did that to shanks!!!!!! so dont take his punch lightly!!!! in my opinion....BB even without a DF is the scariest guy in OP!!!! he has been hiding his ability all this time

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

underatting bb now are we? look at shanks face....a fruitless bb did that to shanks!!!!!! so dont take his punch lightly!!!! in my opinion....BB even without a DF is the scariest guy in OP!!!! he has been hiding his ability all this time

You think that a punch from BB is stronger than a punch from Jozu? What BB did to Shanks is irrelevant since he didn't use his physical strength to do that.

 

[Mugiwara kun]

where was it ever written ace had haki? Think about it,If he had, why didn't he use it in the war of the best? and If he did had it,he probably didn't train well enough with it because he had too much confident in his Df. Remember What Akainu told him. "Just because you're a logistics doesn't mean you're invisible " around that line I think. If he had,he would definitely had used it. And please don't say Oda hadn't obtained the concept of haki then... Because we all know Oda

 

[Zavage10]

Ace has the highest confirmed bounty in the manga... Do you really think that he couldn't use haki?

 

[Zavage10]

Zoro trained with Mihawk(who hasn't shown one bit of haki) zoro can use it , but by feats Mihawk cant... Do you really think that is true?

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Ace has the highest confirmed bounty in the manga... Do you really think that he couldn't use haki?

His bounty was so high because he refused to join the Shichibukai and was Roger's son

 

[U mAd]

Zoro trained with Mihawk(who hasn't shown one bit of haki) zoro can use it , but by feats Mihawk cant... Do you really think that is true?

luffy confirmed zoro and sanji can use haki and hawkeye has never been showed fighting a logia but ace fought smoke and never landed a single hit.still even without haki he is really powerfull.

 

[Zavage10]

luffy confirmed zoro and sanji can use haki and hawkeye has never been showed fighting a logia but ace fought smoke and never landed a single hit.still even without haki he is really powerfull.

... You really think thats shank's rival can't use haki...?

 

[U mAd]

... You really think thats shank's rival can't use haki...?

err no i never said mehawk couldn't just that there was no situation he had to in marinefold.if he ever fought agains a logia he would show haki.ace having got the chance never showed it .