[Discussion] Ace is easily the most underrated person in op.
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Dr Strangelove
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In terms of strength I think he could push both to their limits. That's what I mean when I say on their level, strength wise.
Uzumaki Macho
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Dr Strangelove
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But Ace has mastered his fruit to a higher degree than Sabo clearly.
Ace was using much more complex attacks and was clearly better at shaping the fire than Sabo, most likely get it to a higher heat than Sabo can too.
Ace is no joke, he may just be a logia but it's a fire logia.
Obviously I think Sabo would win in the end, but Ace would push him to extreme diffs.
Uzumaki Macho
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Theres no proof that Ace's fire is hotter than Sabo's, we don't even know if the Mera Mera can increase how hot its fire is. Ace is top VA level while Sabo is admiral level, he isn't getting pushed into extreme diff even if Ace's fire can hurt him. Extreme diff implies that two people are pretty much equal, which isn't the xase with these two, Sabo's Haki is way better than Ace's if Ace even had Haki at all, the only thing Ace has over Sabo is that he an control the MMnM a little better.
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From 1-3, Ace might not have needed Haki to fight and survive in the New World because he was a member of Whitebeard's ship. They fought together. If they attacked someone or were attacked, Ace merely fought someone that he didn't need Haki for and left someone like Marco or Jozu to fight people that you need Haki for. Ace survived because he had WB pirates backing him up. Remember when Buggy's crew wanted to kill Ace and Buggy said no because killing Ace meant facing the wrath of Whitebeard? Anyone who could kill Ace in the New World, who were worth their salt in other words, would definitely know about Whitebeard. Ace survived because he had the Whitebeard Pirates in his corner.
1. Ace stalemated with a Logia because he couldn't harm his physical body
2. He has no qualms about potentially killing his enemies
3. He hit Teach, a man he was trying to kill, with an attack not laced with Haki, right after he was told Teach is a Logia
4. Even before coming up with Buso: Koka, Oda had more than 12 people exhibit Haki prior to the timeskip, even minor characters, but didn't depict Ace, not once, using Buso: Koka, and Ace is a significant character
When you lump all of these facts together, you get that Ace never used Busoshoku because he either couldn't, or he's stupid, and Ace isn't stupid.
Dr Strangelove
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It's safe to assume it does, it's a fire logia fro christ sake. Just like how Enel could increase the voltage in his attacks and Kuzan can increase his temperature, so can Ace.
Yes, Ace is also admiral level. He held his own against Kuzan (yes, Ace has the elemental advantage) but he still completely countered and Admirals attack).
A little better? Ace had the fruit for 5+ years I believe, Sabo has had it for about 2 hours max...
Don't state opinions as fact, especially yours. I think Ace is admiral level, you don't. It's an opinion, not a fact.
Uzumaki Macho
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Sabo isn't as much as a noob with the MMnM as you think, remember that once someone eats a DF they get instant knowledge of what it can do. Kaku only ate his DF like 30 min ago and he he could use it very well and incorporate it with his Rokushiki. Sabo can already use one of Ace's strong attacks, Hiken. Ace and Aokiji had one clash, Zoro and Fujitora had a quick clash but Zoro isn't admiral level. Jozu, Ace's superior wasn't even admiral level but Ace is?
xanonymosx
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well i think its obvious ace df skills are many times better than sabo , sabo didnt even train to master the df power yet but i dont think ace is going to push sabo to extreme diff because of that
sabo (bad/mid df control + excellent haki ) > ace (excellent df control + no haki )
sabo (bad/mid df control + excellent haki ) > ace (excellent df control + no haki )
Uzumaki Macho
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Believe it or not Enel is underrated at times, Ive seen people say that even Maynard can beat him.
Actually, that isn't true. Kaku messed up a bunch of times while trying to use his fruit, and Sabo has shown multiple times he's having trouble controlling the fruit. Ace outclasses Sabo with using the Mera Mera no Mi in spades, Sabo doesn't even come close to using it like Ace does. So far, he's been able to use Hiken, but other than that, he's just wildfire.
Dr Strangelove
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Must have been 3 then.
No, that's not how it works you idiot. It was stated Kaku can adapt to any situation which is why he could incorporate and use the fruit so quickly and effortlessly.
Wow, Sabo used one attack...which was arguably Aces most well known attack due to it being part of his epithet. Sabo using one basic attack of Aces doesn't automatically mean he has mastered it, Sabo even said himself he is still trying to get control of the fruit the instant he got it so quit making up manga facts.
Ye, but Zoro was sent flying, Ace successfully disposed of Kuzans attack head on.
Jozu wasn't Aces superior.
Uzumaki Macho
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Like you said earlier fire has an advantage over ice, replace Aokiji with Kizaru and Ace wouldn't have countered it, and we all know what would happen if it was Akainu. Jozu isn't Ace's superior rank wise yes, but he is his superior strength wise.
Tyrion Lannister
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Ace was not underrated. He was praised along the series as the second commander of White Beards Fleet. White Beard was feared to be strongest man in the sea, so his 2nd in command means something.
Vandenre1ch
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-Ace never learned how to use CoC at will
-Ace never shown, used or implied he had CoA
-Ace fought Jimbe to a draw
-Ace only stalemated Aokiji's Ice because Fire>Ice. Fire has no density and cannot be frozen.
-Ace is absolutely no match for Akainu because Magma burns more than orange flames(and no. The Mera cant produce blue flmes. only yellow/orange)
Ace isn't really underrated. Some people give him a little too much credit. Crocodile, Smoker, Enel(and overrated) and Akainu is underrated.
-Ace never shown, used or implied he had CoA
-Ace fought Jimbe to a draw
-Ace only stalemated Aokiji's Ice because Fire>Ice. Fire has no density and cannot be frozen.
-Ace is absolutely no match for Akainu because Magma burns more than orange flames(and no. The Mera cant produce blue flmes. only yellow/orange)
Ace isn't really underrated. Some people give him a little too much credit. Crocodile, Smoker, Enel(and overrated) and Akainu is underrated.
Uzumaki Macho
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I think that both Sabo and Ace currently use orange flames and that someone who masters the fruit to its full potential can use blue flames. Ace never mastered his fruit unlike Luffy because he had the WB Pirates helping him while Luffy needed to master his fruit to fight his opponents.
