A world without religon

[Ripple Hole]

Because religion is the promotion of peace and love that one could manipulate its followers to his bidden. It's not that hard to grasp you know. It's how politics work. With that kind of IQ, you're not going to see the world properly.

Yea, you've gotta be trolling now.
If I wrote on a piece of paper "Don't kill."
And have that piece of paper gain hundreds of thousands supporting it,
then convince followers of that piece of paper to kill effectively, something is clearly wrong.

If religion promoted peace well, it's followers wouldn't be hasty to resort to attacking others.

 

[Bronze]

Yea, you've gotta be trolling now.
If I wrote on a piece of paper "Don't kill."
And have that piece of paper gain hundreds of thousands supporting it,
then convince followers of that piece of paper to kill effectively, something is clearly wrong.

If religion promoted peace well, it's followers wouldn't be hasty to resort to attacking others.

You know what, there is no helping you. Zzz

 

[Fresco]

Just to clear up some things,

Thomas Hobbes and John Locke, the two philosophers who most inspired the American Revolution, advocated that people were born free, but the natural order of things was much too crazy, so it was their responsibility to create a government to protect their rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of property. There was no religious aspect to this. In fact, it was quite the opposite because the social contract theory came about because of the Glorious Revolution, the revolution that ousted King James II because he was ruling by divine right. Simplified explanation, but whatever.

Laws and morals have arisen from different things, but most of all, it has arisen fron human emotions and empathy. Much of the earlier forms of laws were retributive, like Judaic and Babylonian law. Greco-roman philosophy and has had a bigger impact on western laws more than anything else, and although there are religious overtones to western thought, it's incorrect to blindly assume religion is the reason these laws exist. Movements like the Enlightment, where concepts like Tabula Rusa (blank sleight) were fleshed out and the social contract theory was created, had a much bigger impact on laws of today than primitive laws of older times, and these were anti-establishment movements.

The American system of government was not based on religion. Like I said earlier, social contract theory forms the basis of the American governmental system and many governments today, and it is an anti-establishment theory that railed against monarchal and religious institutions. In fact, the idea of freedom of religion was forming in the early New England and middle colonies. Roger Williams, who was exiled because of his ideas of Church and State, went on to found Rhode Island. Similarly, Wiliam Penn established Pennyslvania with his society of friends. Separation of Church and State was again argued for by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, the latter being the founder of the Bill of Rights himself. Finally, the US senate passed The Treaty of Tripoli (John Adams being the president at the time) which directly states the US was not founded on a particular religion.

 

[Conspirator.]

Religion is like bleach. Its effects on society depends on how the individual chooses to use it. Bleach can be used for cleaning purposes which is positive, however if you drink the same substance you kick the bucket, which is a negative effect for the most part. So, the same substance that can be used for cleaning can also be used for murder. That is religion in a nutshell, it's the people who make the religion, not the religion that makes the people.

Following on from this, whilst religion can make you feel at peace spiritually and other similar effects, I seriously doubt that it's going to magically turn an atheist who is an out-and-out thug into a saint, which is what you seem to be implying. There may be exceptions, as there usually are in most things, but this is not going to be the norm. Good people at heart will do good things. Bad people will do bad things. Your religious beliefs or lack thereof are not going to change this for the most part. Honestly, if you are someone who leans on a holy book exclusively to create your own moral compass , and ignores common sense and decency when it goes even slightly against your precious book, then there's clearly something wrong with you, and religion is not going to change it. Fair and moral laws would obviously come about with or without religion because of this. In sum, I think you're barking up the wrong tree by directly correlating religious beliefs with morality, when no such relationship exists.

 

[FreakensteinAG]

I would just like to point out that Intelligence is not gained: what you have at birth is what you get. What you gain is Wisdom, or your capacity of knowledge. Intelligence affects the rate at which you gain Wisdom, as in how quickly you learn or how much faster you are at processing information.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Intelligence definition: the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.



United States, Brazil, Mexico, United Kingdom etc. They're filled with morality, drug violence, racism and so on, and these countries are secular ones.

Now let's compare them to countries that apply religion as their official constitution: Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Kuwait and Oman - all have low crime rates due to the prohibition of committing crime in religion and the harsh punishment applied to it; all have low, if none morality; all are safe and peaceful countries to live and work there, with beneficial standards like free education, healthcare and high wages.

Don't some of those countries kill people for leaving Islam?

 

[Fresco]

Intelligence definition: the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.



United States, Brazil, Mexico, United Kingdom etc. They're filled with morality, drug violence, racism and so on, and these countries are secular ones.

Now let's compare them to countries that apply religion as their official constitution: Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Kuwait and Oman - all have low crime rates due to the prohibition of committing crime in religion and the harsh punishment applied to it; all have low, if none morality; all are safe and peaceful countries to live and work there, with beneficial standards like free education, healthcare and high wages.

Congratulations, you know how to cherry-pick. I mean comparing per capita wages of Islamic countries to western ones is laughable, and the things you listed, practically all of Europe has. The difference being, they don't have outrageous laws which persecute homosexuals nor do they have economies built on superficial wealth. US has massive income inequality, but even then, the per capita wages is leaps and bounds ahead of the countries you listed.

Its funny because you took 4 secular countries with varying degrees of problems and compared them to 5 of the best Islamic countries you could find, but the comparison fell apart because you just didn't know what you were talking about. Maybe try taking 4 of the best secularist countries next time? Like Denmark, Finland, Canada, and Switzerland maybe?

And it's disgusting you would even defend the laws of those Islamic countries, particularly SA, where public executions and stonings and lashings are still a thing, homosexuals are persecuted, and women can't even drive cars. I mean, it's 2015. Do us all a favor and get over such an archaic belief system.

 

[Multiply]

Congratulations, you know how to cherry-pick. I mean comparing per capita wages of Islamic countries to western ones is laughable, and the things you listed, practically all of Europe has. The difference being, they don't have outrageous laws which persecute homosexuals nor do they have economies built on superficial wealth. US has massive income inequality, but even then, the per capita wages is leaps and bounds ahead of the countries you listed.

Its funny because you took 4 secular countries with varying degrees of problems and compared them to 5 of the best Islamic countries you could find, but the comparison fell apart because you just didn't know what you were talking about. Maybe try taking 4 of the best secularist countries next time? Like Denmark, Finland, Canada, and Switzerland maybe?

And it's disgusting you would even defend the laws of those Islamic countries, particularly SA, where public executions and stonings and lashings are still a thing, homosexuals are persecuted, and women can't even drive cars. I mean, it's 2015. Do us all a favor and get over such an archaic belief system.

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Chill Fresco :lol.

 

[CornyRainbow]

A world without religion? That would be sad

A world without Atheist? That would be sad.

I don't see why someone's beliefs is that important to people these days but whatever. It feels like religious people are trying to hard to be right and Atheist are trying too hard to be right when everyone should just shut the hell up and move on with life. Who gives two sh-ts if Johnny is Jewish or if Bob is Atheist or Janie is a goddamn Buddhist. Why is it such a big deal that everyone feels to the need to dictate everyone?

Let people believe what they want because a world without either one is a sad one to me.

 

[YowYan]

It's your freedom not theirs, and that interpretation is purely subjective to your own way of thinking or experience, it is not based on factual data but even if we assume it was, ultimately freedom is something you gain and if gaining it is what you want, or rather if religion is truly bothering you, then leaving is always, and no matter where you are an available option

Culture cannot force you to do something that it gives you an option not to do.

"There is No Compulsion in Religion". I' pretty sure this is said in the very same book which they follow.

Next?

The point being that manipulation is at hand here. An individual is manipulated into feeling pride for and identifying him/herself with a religion as to uphold the community's delusional sense of duty. Imdirectly chaining them to a set standard of thinking. In other words: Enslaving the mind.
This is not just my experience, this is common anywhere and everywhere depending on the household you grow up in and/or community.

 

[BLAZE]

United States, Brazil, Mexico, United Kingdom etc. They're filled with morality, drug violence, racism and so on, and these countries are secular ones.


Now let's compare them to countries that apply religion as their official constitution: Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Kuwait and Oman - all have low crime rates due to the prohibition of committing crime in religion and the harsh punishment applied to it; all have low, if none morality; all are safe and peaceful countries to live and work there, with beneficial standards like free education, healthcare and high wages.

So select a few secular countries and compare them to 4 Islamic countries with highest per capita
Why not compare them to Pakistan the country which was basically born becoz of religion

 

[UltraPain]

OP claims that without the morals of religion we wouldn't know what's bad, like murder. I guess someone forgot what the dark ages and the crusades were lmao. Millions have been killed because of religion.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

When you get right down to it, Religion was made by Man. Therefore any laws set out by Religion are a Man-Made construct. Therefore, A world without Religion would not be the anarchy ruled wasteland like some people seem to believe. Humans made the law, whether you approve of Religion or not.

 

[Bronze]

So select a few secular countries and compare them to 4 Islamic countries with highest per capita
Why not compare them to Pakistan the country which was basically born becoz of religion

What about India?

 

[BanGinji]

I appreciate religion, but i do think the the world would be better overall without. Some people can't handle it and use poor interpretations as excuses to spread negativity and bigotry.

 

[Fresco]

I've lived in the UK for 7 years and British people are nowhere as wealthy as Gulf Arab people are, despite UK's economy being larger. And not just the UK, I'm sure it points to all of Western Europe.

In the West, you pay tax for interests, property, income and buying anything, but in the Gulf we pay none.
In the West, education and healthcare programme is extremely expensive, but in the Gulf it's all free.
In the West, income-inequality is high, but in the Gulf everyone is paid highly.

We don't give a flying fuck of what you think of our laws. We are proud of killing gay people and we will continue on doing so, and there is nothing you will do about it.

So I'm not sure where you've gotten that you live as good or better than we do, otherwise I wouldn't see so many Westerns working in the Gulf. Oh, by the way, on the Per Capita wages, 4 out of 5 of the GCC countries are in the top 15 of highest paid wages in the world, whereas the US and majority of European countries rank in top 30. Yet again, I don't where you've gotten the ''bound ahead'' from. Probably from Fox News or BBC News? :lol

Okay, it's clear you're pulling these statistics out of your ass. Let's take the HDI (human development index) by the UN, which is a combined measure of healthcare, life-expectancy, education, standard of living, and quality of life. [

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] Signapore is the only country in the top ten that is not from Europe, NA, or Oceania. The highest gulf country is SA at 34, below the vast majority of European countries. UK and the US, the countries you're complaining about are at 14 and 5, respectively.

Now let's look at actual wealth. First,

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household income, and then

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wages per income. In each measure, western countries are ahead of gulf states, with the exception of Kuwait in the former. The US is still ahead of them, and UK is ahead of SA.

And...? GCC is still better than all of them. When you can get me any secular country that has free education, healthcare, free-tax and highest wages in the world, then come and list them.

I did... Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, NZ, Canada, etc. all have free education, free healthcare, and higher standards of living than all of the gulf states, and they're all secular countries. And the fact that Saudia Arabia is totally dependent on these countries is the most hilarious part. Hence why I said, superficial wealth. US and the EU are the most powerful economies in the world, and they're based on social contract theory, as opposed to the archaic system of government in Saudi Arabia

I'm sorry if our laws made you cry. :dunno:

Tell me something. If these gulf states are Islamic paradises as you say, why are they not taking in any refugees as opposed to other Muslim countries and the west? And also, why are wealthy families in these gulf states known to fund Islamic terrorist groups like Al-Quaeda and ISIS?

 

[Fresco]

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good article about SA poverty :lol