This is a 3 on 3 Debate. Edo Hiruzen, Jiraiya and Hebi Sasuke vs. Kitsuchi, Gaiden Sakura, and Onoki.
Team 1:
KidGamer65
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Haizaki
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Zexion
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Team 2:
FT
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Icelerate
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Beans2
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Location: Zombie Duo vs. Team 7. Intel: Full Distance: 40m Restrictions: Sage Mode, Edo Regen, Orochimaru emerging from Sasuke's body. Gama Rinsho. Kawazu Naki (Frog Call) Judges:
The fight kicks off with Jiraiya blocking his LOS by either having his partners block his front view or turning around to prevent the team from seeing him. With this, Jiariaya forms Yomi Numa (
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) and with immediate effect, immobilizes your teammates. Let's have a look at the DB:
The more you struggle, the more you sink
A bottomless swamp from Hell!!
By changing the ground into mud and creating a swamp, the enemy is sunk deep underground...!! The adhesive, chakra-infused mud ensnares the enemy's body. It's impossible to recover one's strength and escape from there. The size and depth of the created swamp depend on the user's skill and the amount of chakra used, but if the user is an expert in this technique, it will always be possible to make a fair-sized swamp! When fighting a great number of enemies or having to face gigantic creatures, this is an extremely effective technique.
↓The giant snake captured in this bog is prevented from moving! But if you ask Jiraiya, he'd say it is insufficient. The real goal of this technique is to completely submerge the target underground.
[picture of Orochimaru's snake summon caught in this technique]
This swamp goes down to abysmal depths!!
*Yomi is the place where the you go after death according to the Japanese Shinto mythology. Since Buddhism was introduced in Japan, it is also considered one of the Buddhist hells.
It's unlike the Western concepts of Heaven and Hell, though. It isn't a paradise in any way, nor is it a place for punsiment. All the dead, regardless of their behaviour in life, go there to carry on a gloomy and shadowy existance and rot for all
I don't think there's much to say here but I can't see how they escape this technique nor can I see how they counter it quickly. The speed is something that they'll greatly struggle with, and in the end fail to counter. This is a good example here, before one can fully flip over, Yomi Numa had nearly swallowed the other Path's arm(Study the difference between the top and bottom panel to see the speed and of course, the Manga is read from right to left)
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--That's a good feat and if Jiraiya get's blocked by his clone or his partners, there's absolutely no way these guys would counter once this is done since they won't know what's coming without seeing the hand seals. The initial hand seals would be nothing to accomplish with the speed of Jiraiya. He could summon his toad so fast before Kisame could complete his strike(You can see the smoke showing it was just summoned with of course, hand seals
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and you can see him using hand seals to undo it
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, I don't know how these two would deal with Yomi numa but let's get to what happens next.
Once that works, there are several things that could round this up easily. Well, there's Food Cart Destroyer(
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, that's a smaller toad) that can crush the hopes of them surviving or, Sasuke can use Chodori sharp spear to decapitate/slice through each and every opponent considering they're unable to move as stated in the Databook. This is similar to what I mean
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and his range can be extended with his sword or his speed-- Have in mind Hurizen can even throw multiple large Shurikens like this
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while they are stuck. Not having to say so, you can already tell it's terrible for Onoki, to fight on ground level. Considering the fact that he's not this type of fighter to begin with, that separates him from Sakura and his teammate which absolutely ruins chances of us seeing Super Jinton, that's not really a factor considering the prep time of Jinton in general.
Onoki:
Now I know the usual argument for Onoki is, he'll fly up high and just use Jinton. However, we have long range attacks from individuals in our team and we have a toad that can spit this at him(Can also be used to attack those on ground level too if needed)
Water Release: Gunshot (Suiton: Teppoudama)
Ninjutsu, C-rank, Offensive, All Ranges
User: Gamabunta
A watery supra-cannonball!! A life-threatening shot straight at the enemy!!
One kneads up chakra, converts it into Water, and then spits it out in the form of condensated balls…! Indeed, the high-speed water ball attack possesses just as much power to kill and maim as an actual gunshot!! While this is a Suiton jutsu, it can still be employed someplace where no water is available, which is a great advantage. It’s also possible to increase the power of destruction of the balls themselves by building up the chakra inside of them.
The number of bullets is determined while kneading chakra!
Watery cannonballs are propelled from the Toad Boss’ huge mouth. Their dimensions are extremely large in scale, akin to those of a small cliff!! By taking advantage of gravity, they brutally increase in power!!
but here, jumping isn't needed. There's also Sasuke's Dragon Flame Jutsu which can be fired multiple times
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Having to dodge these attacks from different angles would be an issue for him.
These attacks would force Onoki to cancel Jinton and dodge, like how Mu was forced to do so upon trying to evade
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If you're going to resort to Onoki being able lighten his teammates, there's the fact that they cannot keep up with him:
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Earth release techniques probably won't be useful considering the presence of lightning users:
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We have Hiruzen and Sasuke who are proficient when it comes to this style. Lord Third has shown his
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--Golem isn't a good idea as that counters it. Featless Rock Clones aren't doing much here. They've only shown to be lightened but then, Onoki was already in a lightened state(Considering they form from him, who was already light) when he created them so that doesn't say much.
Then the ability for Onoki to use added weight on the summons isn’t smart:
Manda can sense Onoki through body heat, feel bad for Onoki if he comes close as the summon can attack him or simply use the underground as a resort to avoid him doing this. Not to mention the fact that they are being pressurized by multiple opponents with the fact that the Toad, has Jiraya's clone around who can attack Onoki. He is watched and if he comes close, he gets countered with large scale attacks from Hiruzen/Clones, Jiraiya or his clone in conjunction with his toad OR Jiraiya's clone can use Oil techniques and even Fire styles as a counter. Terrible idea for Onoki to come close.
Jinton takes a considerable amount of time, look at the distance between Gaara and Onoki and Gaara being able to hop in before he can finish Onoki with it
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, then there's Base Kabuto and Deidara being able to run away during the prep time
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, there's absolutely no way our team won't be able to act before the Jutsu is executed.
Kitsuchi:
The main thing here is his ability, Earth Release: Sandwich technique. Let's however look at the disadvantages of this technique:
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First box
- He says he has to knead chakra for it. Have in mind the following occurred between the time he started kneading chakra for it and when he eventually used it:
- Firestyles
- Single FRS
- Followed by multiple being created,
- Air Palm
- Air wall
Several deaths including Neji's killing. It's more understandable considering he said "Hold out Y'all", implying it would take sometime for him to then use it. This is the scan and you can flip through the scans to crosscheck everything I said
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Second Box
Another important factor, his hands. He has to keep his hands in that particular position while preparing for this technique. How does he hope to fight them within this period? Dead meat.
There's only going to be assumptions when it comes to this. I expect "he was probably exhausted" but what's that based on? Absolutely nothing. Even back when he first used it against the Gedo Mazou, it took sometime for us to see it considering Choji and Choza engaged it in battle. Next thing, we were off panel before having the chance to see this technique. He could have been kneading the chakra during that period. If you're going to compare him to other characters, consider the fact that his technique is different from their own but even so, Itachi in a near death state could instantly use Susano'o so this argument won't work.
Close Combat and Mid-Long Range Battle
Your team is evidently outmatched in this aspect. With the strategies from above, such as your team struggling with Yomi Numa, our team quickly occupies your team from such a distance(That's assuming a scenario in which your team counters Yomi) with proficient CQC fighters such as Sasuke(Who has the Sharingan enabling him act and counterattack faster than your opponents attack e.g
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and several others) and Hiruzen being able to hold his own against the Edo Kages in pt 1 which is still a good feat. Sasuke's speed is more than enough to get around your team on ground level and his range in close combat is advantageous to our team:
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--There's also:
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Various options when you think of the fact that Sasuke can have Manda be a distraction from underneath while he and his partners, deal with these guys on ground level. Mind you, Hiruzen's clones(Two in number) would be occupying Onoki with their long and mid range attacks while others(Three in number) would be occupying Sakura in close range. Then we have the fact that Jiraiya(who would also create a clone), can either be a part of the close or mid/long range fight but preferably, I'll have him assist Hiruzen's clones against Onoki considering the pressure he can put on him with his techniques. Three( Might even be more) against 1 in the case of Onoki and Sakura but the truth is, it’s actually a powerful combination with techniques they can offer that would put enough pressure on their opponents.
Hiruzen clones(Five clones) would be accompanied by Enma who in this battle, would be of great advantage to our team. Enma can be cloned:
Adamantine Prison Wall (Kongou Rouheki)
Ninjutsu, Defensive, Supplementary, Close-range
Users: Enma, Sarutobi
A solid prison that changes shape at will!!
After transforming himself into an adamantium staff, Enma clones himself in staff form then boxes the enemy into a lattice. The prison wall with the toughness of adamantium cannot possibly be broken, and the captured enemy is left with nothing but the humility of defeat.
In response to the First Hokage’s secret jutsu, Enma quickly shields the Third, saving him from certain death.
When used for defence the enemy has no way of attacking. This gives the Third time to pull himself together.
This gives Enma the ability to assist the Third Hokage's clones especially in a CQC, then there's the fact that Enma himself possesses a diamond hard body as noted in Orochimaru's DB Entry:
Sword of Kusanagi: Longsword of the Sky (Kusanagi no Tsurugi: Kuu no Tachi)
Ninjutsu, B-rank, Offensive, Close to mid-range
User: Orochimaru
Kusanagi jumps into the air and hacks away of its own accord in a deadly sword dance!!
The Sword of Kusanagi has been summoned by Orochimaru from inside himself. He controls it as he pleases with this jutsu specific to him. It boasts a sharpness sufficient to compel a cry of hurt out of Enma, who possesses a diamond-hard body…!! When the Sword of Kusanagi flies into the air, everything that stands before its edge is prey to be hacked and slashed and murdered, their blood soaking the blade in an unsettling fashion.
Orochimaru doesn’t have the Kusanagi on him, but it’s under his control nonetheless! The legendary blade courses left and right into the air, following his finger movements.!!
About five Hiruzen clones with the assistance of the Enma clones would greatly pressurize your team in both a CQC battle and long-mid range battle considering they can also pressure your teammates with attacks from different directions. Let me also remind you of Hiruzen's Clones durability:
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Then coupled with the fact that they have what it takes to use high level attacks? That's an issue for your team. This is Edo Hiruzen so the drawbacks of Old Hiruzen in terms of chakra usage do not apply here. Either in staff form, Enma is a huge asset to Hiruzen and then his ability to extend
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and deal heavy damage is one to think about considering the unpredictability of its extension in a close range fight.(That's Kusangi being able to withstand it in the scan, which is a different case given the comparison to Enma already in the DB)
Let me also add the fact that a CQC fight with multiple opponents gives the chance for Sasuke to pass in Genjutsu:
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That was in a 3v3 and your team are easily outnumbered when you consider how weak Onoki’s clones are in comparison. Sasuke himself can take on Kitsuchi and there’s without a doubt a clear superiority in the aspect of CQC when it comes to these two.
Having given this scenario, Sasuke would sometime in this fight fire Dragon flame Jutsu to the sky. The clone Jiraiya created would be with Bunta and can use Toad Oil Bomb:
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Multiple opponents attacking from all sorts of directions make it extremely difficult for your team to control the flow of this battle. Our team is superior with the strategies and combinations they can contrive in this battle.
Sakura:
I know Sakura has a large AOE when it comes to her physical attacks. However is that to her Team's advantage?
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the only way this would be good is if Sakura is separated from her Teammates well enough in order to attack like this. That already leaves a possibility of her encountering Sasuke as well which is automatic death since he outmaneuvers her easily. If she attempts such, Sasuke can end it for her real quick before she lands
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There's also the fact that CQC against multiple clones wielding a powerful and unpredictable Enma staff can give her a lot of trouble since they can extend if she tries that jump. Then we have Base Jiraiya that can act as a support if needed or we'll just switch things up by having her fight Sasuke while the clones occupy Kitsuchi at the very worst. However, with various large AOE attacks, Sakura could be held off with no doubt. Then don't forget Manda who can use tricky underground tactics as another means of attacking while your member are occupied.
Katsuyu gets roasted by a Katon much larger than Gamabunta, might even be larger than Manda too(Oil bomb). There's nothing really to be said concerning the summon in such a fight.
Summonings:
- Gamabunta
Instrumental in assisting his teammates from ground level when it comes to attacking Onoki who might take flight. Adding to the support of his teammates and helpful in the avoidance of Kitsuci's Sandwich technique if it ever happens due to its great jumping ability
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,
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- Manda
Helpful with underground attacks and protecting its opponents against attacks by it using the underground tactics. If Jinton can ever be used, it would only be useful if Onoki knows the opponents exact underground position. Helpful when it comes to giving his teammates cover
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- Enma
Pretty sure I already explained but it can be used by Hiruzen and his clones. Considering it can clone itself, Hiruzen forming three clones can have the clones use each staff or even Enma can be used as a surprise attack:
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Had it not been for the Kage that saved Orochimaru, what would have happened? Leaving him entirely surprised despite us seeing a weakened Orochimaru holding his own in terms of speed when battling a Kyuubi Cloaked Naruto. That's what you should expect against multiple opponents in such a battle.
Finishing Your Team
Like I said earlier on, Sasuke at some point would fire Dragon Flame Jutsu above like he he did in his Itachi fight. This Jutsu is all that is needed for Kirin:
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Now, I'll prefer Sasuke using this Jutsu at the beginning considering it can also help as a distraction while Jman sets up Yomi Numa. This Jutsu only requires one seal.
Given that and the speed of Sasuke, your team won't have any means of stopping this. This already prepares Kirin but still, we have Fire stye users and the location filled with Dead Trees would allow for the trees to catch fire
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-- This should speed up Kirin with the Fire style users we have and that spells death for your team sometime in this matchup.
Good post Haizaki. Slept on Sakura though which is not surprising but probably a bad idea. Unless your team is each focusing on countering different characters in their posts.
Good post Haizaki. Slept on Sakura though which is not surprising but probably a bad idea. Unless your team is each focusing on countering different characters in their posts.
yeah I noticed how he got all detailed for the other ones but Sakura counter is like a paragraph and some little lines lol. But his arguments are still well.
The fight kicks off with Jiraiya blocking his LOS by either having his partners block his front view or turning around to prevent the team from seeing him. With this, Jiariaya forms Yomi Numa (
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) and with immediate effect, immobilizes your teammates. Let's have a look at the DB:
Unfortunately for your team, we have two techniques faster than Yomi Numa:
1. Mobile Earth Core
2. Punch to the ground
Both of these can be used faster than Jiraiya can turn around and weave hand seals for his swamp. Kitsuchi will immediately lower your team deep into the earth. Your team will be
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by this move. Simultaneously, Sakura will
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, thus destroying the terrain and making Yomi Numa impossible. If the terrain my team is standing on consists of hundreds of small boulders rather than one unit of ground, Jiraiya can't turn all those boulders into a swamp at once. He would have to turn each boulder into a swamp one at a time, which is not an effective strategy for obvious reasons. But Beans, wouldn't Sakura punching the ground hurt her teammates? Not really, because:
-She can punch the ground
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so most of the rocks that fly up go in front of her.
-Onoki will use mobile core to elevate himself and Kitsuchi above the ground on a raised platform. (Remember Onoki can use this tech too?)
-Onoki can use an earth wall or earth golem to protect himself or Kitsuchi from the flying rocks and debris.
-
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aren't much of an issue for Onoki anyway.
So now that your team is
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, and my team is totally not drowning in a swamp, we have your team exactly where we want them. All that's left is for Onoki to fly up to Sakura and prepare super Jinton. He then
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his
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in a downward motion so there's no escape for Sasuke, Hiruzen, or Jiraiya. In one fell swoop, he wipes your team off the face of the earth. GG.
I don't think there's much to say here but I can't see how they escape this technique nor can I see how they counter it quickly. The speed is something that they'll greatly struggle with, and in the end fail to counter. This is a good example here, before one can fully flip over, Yomi Numa had nearly swallowed the other Path's arm(Study the difference between the top and bottom panel to see the speed and of course, the Manga is read from right to left)
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--That's a good feat and if Jiraiya get's blocked by his clone or his partners, there's absolutely no way these guys would counter once this is done since they won't know what's coming without seeing the hand seals. The initial hand seals would be nothing to accomplish with the speed of Jiraiya. He could summon his toad so fast before Kisame could complete his strike(You can see the smoke showing it was just summoned with of course, hand seals
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and you can see him using hand seals to undo it
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, I don't know how these two would deal with Yomi numa but let's get to what happens next.
My team will never be caught by Yomi Numa, but in the end if against all odds they are caught they are very easily rescued by an airborne Onoki or his rock clones like Aoba was in this instance:
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Not to mention, if Onoki lightens his teammates they will sink much slower due to being less heavy.
Also, Sakura can summon Katsuyu beneath her and the summoning will push her up out of the swamp, and serve as a platform from which she and Kitsuchi can jump off.
Once that works, there are several things that could round this up easily. Well, there's Food Cart Destroyer(
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, that's a smaller toad) that can crush the hopes of them surviving or, Sasuke can use Chodori sharp spear to decapitate/slice through each and every opponent considering they're unable to move as stated in the Databook. This is similar to what I mean
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and his range can be extended with his sword or his speed-- Have in mind Hurizen can even throw multiple large Shurikens like this
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while they are stuck. Not having to say so, you can already tell it's terrible for Onoki, to fight on ground level. Considering the fact that he's not this type of fighter to begin with, that separates him from Sakura and his teammate which absolutely ruins chances of us seeing Super Jinton, that's not really a factor considering the prep time of Jinton in general.
-My team won't get caught with Yomi Numa because of reasons explained above.
-Even if they were to get caught, your team would be deep inside the earth and have no way of finishing them off before either Onoki and his clones rescue them, or Sakura and Kitsuchi escape by using Katsuyu as a platform to jump off.
Now I know the usual argument for Onoki is, he'll fly up high and just use Jinton. However, we have long range attacks from individuals in our team and we have a toad that can spit this at him(Can also be used to attack those on ground level too if needed)
This is the Jutsu
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but here, jumping isn't needed. There's also Sasuke's Dragon Flame Jutsu which can be fired multiple times
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Having to dodge these attacks from different angles would be an issue for him.
These attacks would force Onoki to cancel Jinton and dodge, like how Mu was forced to do so upon trying to evade
If Onoki is airborne, he simply uses a rock clone on his back to move him while he's prepping Jinton therefore he does not need to cancel the Jinton prep. Your team only has linear attacks and no guided attacks, therefore they fail to land a hit when Onoki's clone will move him out of the way every time.
If Onoki is on the ground when he's preparing Jinton, it's even easier since Kitsuchi just raises or lowers the ground below him as he's preparing Jinton. That way the attack will miss Onoki, either by hitting the ground beneath him or flying over his head. Also a simple earth wall will block most attacks (except for lightning ones, and if Kitsuchi sees Hiruzen use his lightning stream he will opt to lower or raise the ground instead.)
So interrupting Jinton isn't happening, and when he gets it off it will be very, very bad for your team.
Onoki will lighten his teammates to give them a speed boost much like he did with Raikage, but not the point that they're weightless. Kitsuchi and Sakura are not needed in the air.
Earth release techniques probably won't be useful considering the presence of lightning users:
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We have Hiruzen and Sasuke who are proficient when it comes to this style. Lord Third has shown his
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--Golem isn't a good idea as that counters it. Featless Rock Clones aren't doing much here. They've only shown to be lightened but then, Onoki was already in a lightened state(Considering they form from him, who was already light) when he created them so that doesn't say much.
Then the ability for Onoki to use added weight on the summons isn’t smart:
Manda can sense Onoki through body heat, feel bad for Onoki if he comes close as the summon can attack him or simply use the underground as a resort to avoid him doing this. Not to mention the fact that they are being pressurized by multiple opponents with the fact that the Toad, has Jiraya's clone around who can attack Onoki. He is watched and if he comes close, he gets countered with large scale attacks from Hiruzen/Clones, Jiraiya or his clone in conjunction with his toad OR Jiraiya's clone can use Oil techniques and even Fire styles as a counter. Terrible idea for Onoki to come close.
Jinton takes a considerable amount of time, look at the distance between Gaara and Onoki and Gaara being able to hop in before he can finish Onoki with it
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, then there's Base Kabuto and Deidara being able to run away during the prep time
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, there's absolutely no way our team won't be able to act before the Jutsu is executed.
What on earth? Lmao, come on now. Large summons on the battlefield make easy, easy targets for Jinton. Onoki wouldn't even need to come close to take them out. Already explained how interrupting Jinton prep isn't an option when either a flying rock clone can move him around as he prepares Jinton, or Kitsuchi raises or lowers the ground beneath Onoki. Also, you presented very weak evidence trying to prove that Jinton prep is slow. Gaara being able to come in between Muu and Onoki isn't proof that he would have been able to do anything to stop Muu from executing Jinton, and Kabuto and Deidara being able to cover a little bit of distance did nothing for them because Onoki literally states that they're not getting away from his Jinton. Sure Jinton takes a couple seconds to prepare. No one's arguing with that. Only until you can correlate that to your teammates being able to interrupt the prep, it's not relevant.
Take a look
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. We are shown in the top panel the distance between Muu and the opposition. Muu seems to have started prepping his Jinton at the same time as Naruto bounces off the sand cloud, shown by the slashed line between the two panels (which generally indicates two things happening at the same time despite manga being read from right to left.) On the
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, it's shown that Muu would have gotten off Jinton before Naruto reached him (according to Muu's statement) had Naruto not used another chakra arm for a last minute extension. Pretty good feat for Muu, and by extension Onoki since they were shown in the manga to prepare and execute Jinton at the same speed.
The main thing here is his ability, Earth Release: Sandwich technique. Let's however look at the disadvantages of this technique:
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First box
- He says he has to knead chakra for it. Have in mind the following occurred between the time he started kneading chakra for it and when he eventually used it:
- Firestyles
- Single FRS
- Followed by multiple being created,
- Air Palm
- Air wall
Several deaths including Neji's killing. It's more understandable considering he said "Hold out Y'all", implying it would take sometime for him to then use it. This is the scan and you can flip through the scans to crosscheck everything I said
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Second Box
Another important factor, his hands. He has to keep his hands in that particular position while preparing for this technique. How does he hope to fight them within this period? Dead meat.
There's only going to be assumptions when it comes to this. I expect "he was probably exhausted" but what's that based on? Absolutely nothing. Even back when he first used it against the Gedo Mazou, it took sometime for us to see it considering Choji and Choza engaged it in battle. Next thing, we were off panel before having the chance to see this technique. He could have been kneading the chakra during that period. If you're going to compare him to other characters, consider the fact that his technique is different from their own but even so, Itachi in a near death state could instantly use Susano'o so this argument won't work.
Well, I guess all I have to say here is refer back to the intro I wrote at the beginning. Kitsuchi doesn't need to build up chakra when Sakura can just pump him full of chakra using her massive reserves, so not only can she increase the size of his mountain sandwich but can eliminate the need for Kitsuchi to build up chakra.
Once mountain sandwich is used, it's GG for at least one of your team members since with walls closing in on both sides of them, they can't go left or right so they'll have to avoid by going forward, upward, or backward. This is when Onoki does the dirty work, by swinging a Jinton downward along the y-axis in this picture:
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Doubting that Onoki can make a jinton long enough?
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Checkmate. One or more of your team members can be wiped out this way.
Your team is evidently outmatched in this aspect. With the strategies from above, such as your team struggling with Yomi Numa, our team quickly occupies your team from such a distance(That's assuming a scenario in which your team counters Yomi) with proficient CQC fighters such as Sasuke(Who has the Sharingan enabling him act and counterattack faster than your opponents attack e.g
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and several others) and Hiruzen being able to hold his own against the Edo Kages in pt 1 which is still a good feat. Sasuke's speed is more than enough to get around your team on ground level and his range in close combat is advantageous to our team:
Mid to close range combat is not a good idea in general for your team since they would leave themselves vulnerable to super jinton, which no one on your team can avoid. If Sasuke rushes my team, he's in for a nasty surprise since Jinton at close range can be
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, and with Sakura reducing the prep time it can be executed even faster. I don't think Sasuke can dodge jinton, but just to be sure Sasuke does not dodge, Kitsuchi can simultaneously raise the ground below Sasuke, a process so fast that Sasuke's knees will bend due to the acceleration of the rising core, and will be forced to
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, unable to move. It will be even more difficult for him to rush my team if they're on a raised platform (refer back to the beginning where I said Onoki will create a raised platform) and he has to scale a wall to reach them.
Also Manda going underground puts him in Kitsuchi's territory, who will expose him by
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. It's a simple matter to take large summons out with Jinton, plus Manda isn't making any sneak attacks from underground if my team is raised on a platform.
Various options when you think of the fact that Sasuke can have Manda be a distraction from underneath while he and his partners, deal with these guys on ground level. Mind you, Hiruzen's clones(Two in number) would be occupying Onoki with their long and mid range attacks while others(Three in number) would be occupying Sakura in close range. Then we have the fact that Jiraiya(who would also create a clone), can either be a part of the close or mid/long range fight but preferably, I'll have him assist Hiruzen's clones against Onoki considering the pressure he can put on him with his techniques. Three( Might even be more) against 1 in the case of Onoki and Sakura but the truth is, it’s actually a powerful combination with techniques they can offer that would put enough pressure on their opponents.
This whole argument operates under the assumption that my team will split up rather than stick together. With everyone watching each other's backs, Onoki will be able to get off super Jinton, which is the most important thing, and take out multiple attackers or clones at once, since numbers do not matter in front of a Jinton user.
Hiruzen clones(Five clones) would be accompanied by Enma who in this battle, would be of great advantage to our team. Enma can be cloned:
This gives Enma the ability to assist the Third Hokage's clones especially in a CQC, then there's the fact that Enma himself possesses a diamond hard body as noted in Orochimaru's DB Entry:
About five Hiruzen clones with the assistance of the Enma clones would greatly pressurize your team in both a CQC battle and long-mid range battle considering they can also pressure your teammates with attacks from different directions. Let me also remind you of Hiruzen's Clones durability:
Then coupled with the fact that they have what it takes to use high level attacks? That's an issue for your team. This is Edo Hiruzen so the drawbacks of Old Hiruzen in terms of chakra usage do not apply here. Either in staff form, Enma is a huge asset to Hiruzen and then his ability to extend
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and deal heavy damage is one to think about considering the unpredictability of its extension in a close range fight.(That's Kusangi being able to withstand it in the scan, which is a different case given the comparison to Enma already in the DB)
Sure Enma can extend and deal damage, but how does that serve your team if Enma can't even land a hit? This is pretty vague because you're showcasing all these abilities without actually explaining how they will be useful in battle. The key issue your team has with entering close to mid range combat is that they'll get hit with Jinton or super Jinton if they get too close. You can argue that your team will disrupt Onoki's jinton prep with Enma extension, water bullets, or element attacks, but a simple earth wall can block any of those except for lightning streams, and lightning streams can be avoided via Kitsuchi quickly lowering or raising the platform they're on. Mobile core can be executed faster than Deidara can explode his bomb, and that's when a fodder used it (
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)-(
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)...so it can certainly be used to avoid lightning streams.
Let me also add the fact that a CQC fight with multiple opponents gives the chance for Sasuke to pass in Genjutsu:
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That was in a 3v3 and your team are easily outnumbered when you consider how weak Onoki’s clones are in comparison. Sasuke himself can take on Kitsuchi and there’s without a doubt a clear superiority in the aspect of CQC when it comes to these two.
Having given this scenario, Sasuke would sometime in this fight fire Dragon flame Jutsu to the sky. The clone Jiraiya created would be with Bunta and can use Toad Oil Bomb:
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Multiple opponents attacking from all sorts of directions make it extremely difficult for your team to control the flow of this battle. Our team is superior with the strategies and combinations they can contrive in this battle.
Sasuke will never even be able to get into close combat. The threat of a
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that can be
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should be enough to keep him at bay, and if he's foolish enough to come near then he gets killed by it.
Both Sasuke and Jiraiya's katons can be blocked with simple earth walls, so what does this accomplish for your team here? Sakura can use earth walls too btw, considering
I know Sakura has a large AOE when it comes to her physical attacks. However is that to her Team's advantage?
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the only way this would be good is if Sakura is separated from her Teammates well enough in order to attack like this. That already leaves a possibility of her encountering Sasuke as well which is automatic death since he outmaneuvers her easily. If she attempts such, Sasuke can end it for her real quick before she lands
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There's also the fact that CQC against multiple clones wielding a powerful and unpredictable Enma staff can give her a lot of trouble since they can extend if she tries that jump. Then we have Base Jiraiya that can act as a support if needed or we'll just switch things up by having her fight Sasuke while the clones occupy Kitsuchi at the very worst. However, with various large AOE attacks, Sakura could be held off with no doubt. Then don't forget Manda who can use tricky underground tactics as another means of attacking while your member are occupied.
Katsuyu gets roasted by a Katon much larger than Gamabunta, might even be larger than Manda too(Oil bomb). There's nothing really to be said concerning the summon in such a fight.
Instrumental in assisting his teammates from ground level when it comes to attacking Onoki who might take flight. Adding to the support of his teammates and helpful in the avoidance of Kitsuci's Sandwich technique if it ever happens due to its great jumping ability
Helpful with underground attacks and protecting its opponents against attacks by it using the underground tactics. If Jinton can ever be used, it would only be useful if Onoki knows the opponents exact underground position. Helpful when it comes to giving his teammates cover
Well, he has no counter to Jinton once Kitsuchi puts him aboveground with his volcano jutsu...Not sure why you're using big summons here when they make easy targets for Jinton.
Pretty sure I already explained but it can be used by Hiruzen and his clones. Considering it can clone itself, Hiruzen forming three clones can have the clones use each staff or even Enma can be used as a surprise attack:
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Had it not been for the Kage that saved Orochimaru, what would have happened? Leaving him entirely surprised despite us seeing a weakened Orochimaru holding his own in terms of speed when battling a Kyuubi Cloaked Naruto. That's what you should expect against multiple opponents in such a battle.
Like I said earlier on, Sasuke at some point would fire Dragon Flame Jutsu above like he he did in his Itachi fight. This Jutsu is all that is needed for Kirin:
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Now, I'll prefer Sasuke using this Jutsu at the beginning considering it can also help as a distraction while Jman sets up Yomi Numa. This Jutsu only requires one seal.
Given that and the speed of Sasuke, your team won't have any means of stopping this. This already prepares Kirin but still, we have Fire stye users and the location filled with Dead Trees would allow for the trees to catch fire
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-- This should speed up Kirin with the Fire style users we have and that spells death for your team sometime in this matchup.
Lmao, what? That jutsu alone is not enough to form sufficient storm clouds. An entire forest burning with Amaterasu definitely played some part
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. Especially considering we've seem much larger katons being used in an open location without having any effect on the atmosphere. (Refer to either Toad Oil Flame bullet or Madara and Obito's juubi size katons.) You're selectively reading and ignoring certain parts of the manga in order to create the impression that a dragon flame katon is all that's needed to make storm clouds.
Anyway, intel is full so my team knows about Kirin. A swinging Jinton should be enough to destroy the storm clouds being formed above, and if not, a swinging super Jinton. Kitsuchi can elevate their platform super high in order to be closer to the clouds, or Onoki just flies up there himself, lightened teammates in tow. No storm clouds = no Kirin.
