Kisame vs. Deva Path

[KidGamer65]

Shinra Tensei is the Deva Path's ability to manipulate repulsive force (斥力, sekiryoku) at the user's will to push matter or ninja techniques away.[1] Depending on the amount of force the user puts in this technique.

Chibaku Tensei is a special technique developed by the Sage of the Six Paths through the Deva Path, who used it to create the moon and trap the Ten-Tails' body inside of it.

The user creates a dark black sphere of gravity that when thrown into the sky, attracts objects from all directions and pulls them into the sphere compressing them simultaneously.

What makes the black orb so strong?

Don't put words in your post? This is what you typed, my quesiton comes first then your answer in the bold:

"Shinra Tensei is Ninjutsu but can GSB absorb it? Yup"

Their firepower didn't fail, it destroyed the orb..if it took three attacks, 2 of which are far stronger than GSB, GSB isn't destroying the orb.

GSB absorbs chakra not gravity, there's your proof.

Pain can simply flee from Kisame like he did to Kyuubi Naruto, then release it into the sky, Kisame has no knowledge of the jutsu so he will have to arrive to Pain's location, and he will have to figure out how it works, by the time he is ready to counter attack the orb will be too big, not to mention Kisame will also be dragged up by the gravity of the orb.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Don't put words in your post? This is what you typed, my quesiton comes first then your answer in the bold:

"Shinra Tensei is Ninjutsu but can GSB absorb it? Yup"

Not fair you added that to throw me off when ST was explained by statement 1=( I thought you meant CT)


Their firepower didn't fail, it destroyed the orb..if it took three attacks, 2 of which are far stronger than GSB, GSB isn't destroying the orb.

First, I didn't say it fail, Its like saying I never read the end of that chapter. I implied that CT already began pulling things in when Itachi, Naruto, and Bee were talking. Therefore it took more strong attacks to nail the orb, unlike 6 tails situation:

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and

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(You see how it was too late to shoot it, it collected too much so it tanked TBB. Kisame has plenty of time not to talk to go straight for it. Second, which two attacks is better then GSB lol? If GSB were to clash with Itachi's ninjutsu, Naruto's Windshiriken, and Bee TBB <GSB eats it all up.

GSB absorbs chakra not gravity, there's your proof.
CT is chakra base and requires chakra to use it is a ninjutsu. It's not a random move manga move that's just base on gravity

Pain can simply flee from Kisame like he did to Kyuubi Naruto, then release it into the sky, Kisame has no knowledge of the jutsu so he will have to arrive to Pain's location, and he will have to figure out how it works, by the time he is ready to counter attack the orb will be too big, not to mention Kisame will also be dragged up by the gravity of the orb.

Unlike A rampaging buijuu that just seeks and destroys, Kisame has to figure out why Deva is retreating the battlefield. Kisame is pretty smart himself. He can conclude Deva is planning something big. Thus he will want to counter this "big" plan of Deva

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[KidGamer65]

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Just because it requires chakra to be used doesn't mean it can be absorbed by something that absorbs chakra.
And TBB and Rasen Shuriken are >GSB in destructive power, this is obviously what I was referring to when I said stronger...

Regardless, he still needs to close the distance between the two or using GSB is pointless because it won't reach before the orb is covered by debris and Pain was able to escape from 6-Tailed Naruto with his speed, Kisame isn't catching up to him when a V2 Naruto failed to catch up to him.

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See how fast that formed? Kisame isn't closing the distance AND firing his GSB before enough debris covers it.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Just because it requires chakra to be used doesn't mean it can be absorbed by something that absorbs chakra.

You trying your best to beat around what CT is. CT's black orb is a ninjutsu piece period.

And TBB and Rasen Shuriken are >GSB in destructive power, this is obviously what I was referring to when I said stronger...

Ok thank you for clarifying. GSB doesn't win by it's destructive power it wins by absorbing the black orb.

Regardless, he still needs to close the distance between the two or using GSB is pointless because it won't reach before the orb is covered by debris and Pain was able to escape from 6-Tailed Naruto with his speed, Kisame isn't catching up to him when a V2 Naruto failed to catch up to him.

1.)Pain had a head start to run. 2)Pain ran pretty far, completely left the village. If Kisame "can't catch up to his speed" Then Kisame can send 100 sharks after them. Or just let him run, thus Kisame wins by Pains withdraw from the battle.

See how fast that formed? Kisame isn't closing the distance AND firing his GSB before enough debris covers it.

Acutally the manga fast forward panel from Pain leaving the village to perform it. He started at the end of 438. GSB is a long range attack, it will take the black orb before it consumes too much

 

[Curse Mark]

Name
Rōmaji Chibaku Tensei
Literal English Heavenly Body Bursting from the Earth
Viz manga Catastrophic Planetary Construction
English TV Planetary Devastation
Data
Classification Kekkei Genkai, Ninjutsu, Dōjutsu
Class Offensive, Defensive, Supplementary
Range Long-range
Hand seals Hands clapped together
Other jutsu
Parent jutsu
Deva Path

As you can see, it is classified as a kekkei genkai, NINJUTSU, and dojutsu.
Hand seals are also required. It has a parent jutsu, meaning it's a jutsu. Not only is it a jutsu, it's ninjutsu. That's why it can be absorbed by GSB.

 

[Edo Odin]

Name
Rōmaji Chibaku Tensei
Literal English Heavenly Body Bursting from the Earth
Viz manga Catastrophic Planetary Construction
English TV Planetary Devastation
Data
Classification Kekkei Genkai, Ninjutsu, Dōjutsu
Class Offensive, Defensive, Supplementary
Range Long-range
Hand seals Hands clapped together
Other jutsu
Parent jutsu
Deva Path

As you can see, it is classified as a kekkei genkai, NINJUTSU, and dojutsu.
Hand seals are also required. It has a parent jutsu, meaning it's a jutsu. Not only is it a jutsu, it's ninjutsu. That's why it can be absorbed by GSB.

It's an a-orb, which has gravitational powers, it's basically a small planet with very intensified gravity. It takes chakra to make it, but the orb itself is not chakra. Gravity powers are different to normal ninjutsu, which is the reason it is probably the only jutsu that can counter GSB

Saying GSB absorbs it is like saying that it would absorb the earth if a GSB was shot at it, since that is pretty much just what Chibaku Tensei is, a ball with gravitational powers.

 

[Curse Mark]

I'm sorry if i wasn't clear. In my opinion it can still be absorbed up until the first pebble or piece of earth connects with it. As long as there is at least half of the orb showing, I believe it can be absorbed.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I can't believe some people are still beating around the bush, like the black orb is not part of common Naruto manga.
The orb is not taijutsu nor genjutsu

The black orb part is the ninjutsu deal with it.

 

[KidGamer65]

Acutally the manga fast forward panel from Pain leaving the village to perform it. He started at the end of 438. GSB is a long range attack, it will take the black orb before it consumes too much

CT is a black orb made of gravity powered by Nagato's chakra..it isn't chakra, GSB absorbs chakra from an opponent jutsu..but there is no chakra in that black orb, Nagato's chakra causes the orb to pull the debris up towards it.

1). His head start wasn't even a significant head start, and this distance and more, can be made by a Shinra Tensei propelling Kisame away from him while Deva takes off.

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2).So what if Pain left the village? The village isn't even the battlefield, so withdrawal isnt a valid statement. And unless these sharks are faster than 6-Tailed Naruto, then they aren't catching up to Deva.

The manga didn't fast-forward anything either, the manga never fast forwards anything.

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See how big CT in that little amount of time, 6-Tailed couldn't do anything before it formed that large and Kisame will be even farthere back due to Pain making some distance with his Shinra Tensei...besides, GSB can't even absorb the core of CT anyway.

 

[Curse Mark]

I can't believe some people are still beating around the bush, like the black orb is not part of common Naruto manga.
The orb is not taijutsu nor genjutsu

The black orb part is the ninjutsu deal with it.

I already proved it's listed as ninjutsu. The black orb can be absorbed, but the rock that is pulled into it cannot be.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I already proved it's listed as ninjutsu. The black orb can be absorbed, but the rock that is pulled into it cannot be.

I know that, thats what I am trying to explain to them.

 

[Curse Mark]

I know that, thats what I am trying to explain to them.

I dont get how they're still arguing it. Like I proved it. I brought up facts from narutopedia. This should already be over..

 

[Brother Numpsay]

CT is a black orb made of gravity powered by Nagato's chakra..it isn't chakra, GSB absorbs chakra from an opponent jutsu..but there is no chakra in that black orb, Nagato's chakra causes the orb to pull the debris up towards it.
Nagatos chakra but not chakra base jutsu or ninjutsu.... :sy:. Its not Taijtusu and its not Genjtusu It will NOT HAVE it own Category therefore its Ninjutsu. I am not saying the thigns that its picking up is I am saying the Black orb it

1). His head start wasn't even a significant head start, and this distance and more, can be made by a Shinra Tensei propelling Kisame away from him while Deva takes off.

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Look at the first two panels that is a head start. If 6 tails and Deva had a fair race, with line margins , ect he will not beat 6 tails. Plus I just read the manga page of Kisames Eath Jutsu. He was able to travel and move very fast in it (Around manga 255) He could use this to catch up to Deva or just let Deva run away and don't worry about someone who has no way to catch up to. CT will be blank shot for no reason.

2).So what if Pain left the village? The village isn't even the battlefield, so withdrawal isnt a valid statement. And unless these sharks are faster than 6-Tailed Naruto, then they aren't catching up to Deva.
Ok so Kisame waiting for Deva to come back to the battle field is as valid

The manga didn't fast-forward anything either, the manga never fast forwards anything.

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See how big CT in that little amount of time, 6-Tailed couldn't do anything before it formed that large and Kisame will be even farthere back due to Pain making some distance with his Shinra Tensei...besides, GSB can't even absorb the core of CT anyway.

Read all my post again I will paraphrase: Kisame does it before it collect anything that will inflict the jutsu from blocking the orb

 

[Curse Mark]

It takes enough time that I think that he'll be able to counter it in time. He'll know what Deva's about to do once he realizes what's going on. Then *boom*

 

[KidGamer65]

Read all my post again I will paraphrase: Kisame does it before it collect anything that will inflict the jutsu from blocking the orb

Lol, can you read? Its Ninjutsu smart stuff, but it can't be absorbed because the orb its self has no chakra in it, Nagato's chakra is used to activate the orbs powers. All you have done is proved it is Ninjutsu.which doesn't help your case...if you can't understand this simple concept then we can drop it, once rocks are on it, it isn't going to harm CT at all.

Again, read it wasn't significant. And really? That earth jutsu he used is nowhere near fast enough to catch up to him, if Kisame isnt as fast as 6-Tailed Naruto he won't catch Deva..let me simplify it for you.

1. Deva uses Shinra Tensei to send Kisame flying backwards
2. Deva runs away as soon as Kisame gets hit.
3. Deva will have an even larger head start than he did when he fought Kyuubi Naruto, so if he isn't faster than Kyuubi Naruto, he can't catch him.

Please tell me you did not just say he will let Deva run away..
1. Why would he not chase him, when he is fighting to kill him?
2. If he doesn't chase him then CT will get him even easier than it would if he chases him.

:sy: L2Read. Kisame isn't going to wait for Deva to come back, he is chasing him but won't catch up to him in time to attack the core.

Kisame isn't doing jack squat to the orb before debris collects onto it, when Kyuubi Naruto, who is faster than him, caught up to and couldn't even stop it, what makes you think Kisame will catch up to him when he is slower than Kyuubi Mode Naruto...huh?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Lol, can you read? Its Ninjutsu smart stuff, but it can't be absorbed because the orb its self has no chakra in it, Nagato's chakra is used to activate the orbs powers. All you have done is proved it is Ninjutsu.which doesn't help your case...if you can't understand this simple concept then we can drop it, once rocks are on it, it isn't going to harm CT at all.

There we go we can agree that the black orb part is the ninjutsu, NOW read what Kisame said about GSB:

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Again, read it wasn't significant. And really? That earth jutsu he used is nowhere near fast enough to catch up to him, if Kisame isnt as fast as 6-Tailed Naruto he won't catch Deva..let me simplify it for you.

1. Deva uses Shinra Tensei to send Kisame flying backwards
2. Deva runs away as soon as Kisame gets hit.
3. Deva will have an even larger head start than he did when he fought Kyuubi Naruto, so if he isn't faster than Kyuubi Naruto, he can't catch him.
Read manga 255 It caught up to Team Guy who was far away from them

Please tell me you did not just say he will let Deva run away..
1. Why would he not chase him, when he is fighting to kill him?
Because he "can't catch up as you said"?
2. If he doesn't chase him then CT will get him even easier than it would if he chases him.
Orb has to be in Kisames range, if he doesn't run that far in his range then Kisame clearly catches up

:sy: L2Read. Kisame isn't going to wait for Deva to come back, he is chasing him but won't catch up to him in time to attack the core.
If you claim he won't catch up there is no need to go after someone you can't catch up with

Kisame isn't doing jack squat to the orb before debris collects onto it, when Kyuubi Naruto, who is faster than him, caught up to and couldn't even stop it,
Rampage Kyuubi does not have the same mindset as Kisame like I mention above

what makes you think Kisame will catch up to him when he is slower than Kyuubi Mode Naruto...huh?
The earth jutsu (read manga 255)

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[KidGamer65]

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Exactly, it absorbs chakra out of the jutsu, but the core is not made of chakra, it is pure gravity powered by Nagato's chakra.

It caught up to a Team Guy who wasn't trying to run away or escape from something, nor were they even attempting to go full speed.

1.How will he know he can't catch up if he doesn't chase him to begin with?
2.The Orbs range is FAR FAR greater then the range of Kisame's jutsu.

Mindset has nothing to do with it. The fact is Kyuubi Naruto could not catch up to him in time so someone who is slower than him won't catch up in time either.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Exactly, it absorbs chakra out of the jutsu, but the core is not made of chakra, it is pure gravity powered by Nagato's chakra.
Kisame absorbs the gravity that is powered by Nagato chakra

It caught up to a Team Guy who wasn't trying to run away or escape from something, nor were they even attempting to go full speed.
They were going full speed to catch up to Gaara you can't prove that they weren't

1.How will he know he can't catch up if he doesn't chase him to begin with?
2.The Orbs range is FAR FAR greater then the range of Kisame's jutsu.
You sound like Naruto right now here let Itachi explain it for you:

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Mindset has nothing to do with it. The fact is Kyuubi Naruto could not catch up to him in time so someone who is slower than him won't catch up in time either.
Mindset has everyting to do with. rampage KM Naruto was not worry about what Deva was pulling that is why he wa suprise right after the jutsu actives and levitated him up. Kisame is smarter then a Rage KM Naruto. He has to THINK why he is running away from the battle

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[KidGamer65]

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Now you aren't making one bit of sense...

How is going to absorb the Gravity when it isn't chakra, its gravity...by saying that you basically showed that Kisame can't absorb that...when Kisame can absorb gravity then we can talk.

So you think that's Lee and Guy's full speed? Its pretty sad if you do think that..but regardless Kyuubi Mode Naruto's speed>>>>>Their speed so that comparison is moot.

:sy: GSB isn't even going to hurt it so doing what they did is pointless.

Listen, there are 2 things Kisame can do once Deva starts to run.

1. He chases him...if he chases him, Deva will outspeed him and set up CT, meaning Kisame loses as he will be smashed by the various rocks once the CT finishes.

2.He doesn't chase him, which would be stupid because if he doesn't chase him, he will be a sitting duck when CT activates.

All in all, Kisame can't win and the point you keep putting up make no sense at all...by putting up that scan, you show that those jutsu were needed to break CT's core and unless Kisame has that kind of firepower, then he can't break it.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Now you aren't making one bit of sense...

How is going to absorb the Gravity when it isn't chakra, its gravity...by saying that you basically showed that Kisame can't absorb that...when Kisame can absorb gravity then we can talk.
The gravity ball is empowered by chakra as you said. You are making false claims that it cannot be absorbed. It's like saying Kisame can't absorb Lightening, Fire, Wind, etc. Since Since they require chakra but they form into an actual element, therefore Kisame can't absorb them.

So you think that's Lee and Guy's full speed? Its pretty sad if you do think that..but regardless Kyuubi Mode Naruto's speed>>>>>Their speed so that comparison is moot.
Ok so they didn't go full gates for their purpose to find Gaara, come on due you know exactly what I was trying to apply. What I explained was the distance between Kisame and Team Guy they were clearly far, but that earth jutsu made him caught up, meaning it has good speed/catch up feats

:sy: GSB isn't even going to hurt it so doing what they did is pointless.
GSB absorbs the orb not destroy it the main purpose was to explain HOW to reach it

Listen, there are 2 things Kisame can do once Deva starts to run.

1. He chases him...if he chases him, Deva will outspeed him and set up CT, meaning Kisame loses as he will be smashed by the various rocks once the CT finishes.
Kisame doesn't have to wait until rocks block the orb view
2.He doesn't chase him, which would be stupid because if he doesn't chase him, he will be a sitting duck when CT activates.
Kisame doesn't have to wait until rocks block the orb view, the Tech will lead the gravitation pull


All in all, Kisame can't win and the point you keep putting up make no sense at all...by putting up that scan, you show that those jutsu were needed to break CT's core and unless Kisame has that kind of firepower, then he can't break it.

Its not about fire power. Water jutsu don't defeat opponents through firepower. Its about taking out the source. GSB takes out the source by absorbing it.