100% proof(manga pages) edo hashirama was complete and perfect

[LegendaryAce]

1: Hiruzen was said to be the strongest of all hokages in his second term proving his superiority over minato since minato came prior to that statement being made.

2: Hiruzen foiled oro's plans by sealing his jutsu's and hashirama/tobirama that is called winning. They immediately retreated when hiruzen sealed those 3 things/people.

3: Danzo committed suicide in order to destroy the eye so he won because his intentions were successful. However sasuke also won because he forced the elder to kill himself achieving his goal as well. Both of them won that fight technically.

This post finally made me understand your reasoning

And was said to be by who ? And then tsunade > hiruzen


You missed the point I was trying to make


Ill try this aproach

Byakugan > sharingan manga fact

How people take this byakugan > base sharingan

BUT the manga never said what stage of the sharingan just said sharingan overall

But logically that doesn't make sense right since ms and ems > byakugan

Heck even base sharingan > byakugan because of izanagi and izanami .. Now no one says or question this does this mean

Byakugan > sharingan base ( izanami,izanagi) or even ms and ems ?

Since the bloody manga said so? Ofcourse not sometimes Naruto requires common logic like the whole who is tobi is many said obito because it made the most sense
The connection with Kakashi ect

Why I am using these examples I am proving that don't always take the manga word for word if you did

Then things like "was said to be" will confuse you or something ... Judging by why you know hashirama vs hiruzen who wins no hype just use logic with all the moves we know of them and ( the moves madara used are hashiramas arsenal) now who wins be "unbiased "

 

[Nagatoballer]

Tsunade did surpass the previous hokages in healing techniques. Minato did surpass the 2nd in S/T jutsu. So whats your point?

No where did I say Hiruzen is clearly better than Hashi, just the manga proven fact that Hashi was complete and competent unlike a lot of others cling to.

I have said it before, Danzo got screwed in that fight. If Tobi and Karin weren't there, it would've been a different story.

So if some people surpass there masters then everyone does no no ur point is stupid

 

[LegendaryAce]

Tsunade did surpass the previous hokages in healing techniques. Minato did surpass the 2nd in S/T jutsu. So whats your point?

No where did I say Hiruzen is clearly better than Hashi, just the manga proven fact that Hashi was complete and competent unlike a lot of others cling to.

I have said it before, Danzo got screwed in that fight. If Tobi and Karin weren't there, it would've been a different story.

So how did hiruzen surpass hashirama?

 

[Nagatoballer]

Really u make this to complicated answer these simple points and u will see with out a doubt that the first and madara are so far beyond any ninja we know and who ever said the next gen always passes the last where is itachi or sasuke or any uchias perfect susanoo or rinnengan what hokage since the first could dominate tailed beasts none these are facts if the first beat madara and madara has perfect susanoo then hiruzan is no where near there skill people are so dumb if u can rove any of this wrong I will agree but u can't this thread and hiruzan fanboys are worse then itachi fanboys

Really

 

[LegendaryAce]

Really

Only reason hashirama dominates bijuu because his wood suppresses their chakra please don't ruin his name

Enma pushed kyuubi ...

Enma can only be hurt by legendary swords like the one Orochimaru had

Hiruzen was old was low on chakra don't get me wrong

 

[Nagatoballer]

Really u make this to complicated answer these simple points and u will see with out a doubt that the first and madara are so far beyond any ninja we know and who ever said the next gen always passes the last where is itachi or sasuke or any uchias perfect susanoo or rinnengan what hokage since the first could dominate tailed beasts none these are facts if the first beat madara and madara has perfect susanoo then hiruzan is no where near there skill people are so dumb if u can rove any of this wrong I will agree but u can't this thread and hiruzan fanboys are worse then itachi fanboys

100% proof that oro did not have edo perfected if u say that they first and second were at full strength had unlimited stamina and chakra plus can't die and they got owned U R STUPID I will make a list

1.2 hokages that are edo vs 1 hokage that is retired that just sounds dumb no matter who it is
2. Hiruzan is NOT STONGER THEN MADARA OR THE FIRST even if they where a live and not edo and it is soooooo clear because they can easily control tailed beasts hiruzan can not
2.1 prefect susanoo would rape hiruzan
3. the way hiruzan won was with a suicide atk it killed him to win so that is not stronger
4. The biggest point is why no giant wood dragon from the first or space time from the second they did not use all there power
5. Its simple it has been what 2-5 years since oro used edo amd kabuto
Has been working on it since then so it is better now.
6. Your title should say "my stupid opinion that I did not think through" thereis no proof too what u say thereisno proof against it so really stop being so dumb haha saying the third is> then madara and the first soooo dumb
7. Can hiruzan block TBB like the first NO NO NO NO (QUOTE)

Prove any of this wrong really I'm gonna keep posting this until some one can prove it wrong

Really tell me a counter to any of this

 

[oooog]

This post finally made me understand your reasoning

And was said to be by who ? And then tsunade > hiruzen


You missed the point I was trying to make


Ill try this aproach

Byakugan > sharingan manga fact

How people take this byakugan > base sharingan

BUT the manga never said what stage of the sharingan just said sharingan overall

But logically that doesn't make sense right since ms and ems > byakugan

Heck even base sharingan > byakugan because of izanagi and izanami .. Now no one says or question this does this mean

Byakugan > sharingan base ( izanami,izanagi) or even ms and ems ?

Since the bloody manga said so? Ofcourse not sometimes Naruto requires common logic like the whole who is tobi is many said obito because it made the most sense
The connection with Kakashi ect

Why I am using these examples I am proving that don't always take the manga word for word if you did

Then things like "was said to be" will confuse you or something ... Judging by why you know hashirama vs hiruzen who wins no hype just use logic with all the moves we know of them and ( the moves madara used are hashiramas arsenal) now who wins be "unbiased "

you need to have Senju DNA in order to use Izanagi to its fullest. Obviously MS and EMS are superior to byakugan. Use common sense to fill gaps in, sure. But when the Manga tells you otherwise, your "common sense" becomes opinion.

Opinions are like ass holes, everyones got one and they all stink.

 

[Unbiased]

This post finally made me understand your reasoning

And was said to be by who ? And then tsunade > hiruzen


You missed the point I was trying to make


Ill try this aproach

Byakugan > sharingan manga fact

How people take this byakugan > base sharingan

BUT the manga never said what stage of the sharingan just said sharingan overall

But logically that doesn't make sense right since ms and ems > byakugan

Heck even base sharingan > byakugan because of izanagi and izanami .. Now no one says or question this does this mean

Byakugan > sharingan base ( izanami,izanagi) or even ms and ems ?

Since the bloody manga said so? Ofcourse not sometimes Naruto requires common logic like the whole who is tobi is many said obito because it made the most sense
The connection with Kakashi ect

Why I am using these examples I am proving that don't always take the manga word for word if you did

Then things like "was said to be" will confuse you or something ... Judging by why you know hashirama vs hiruzen who wins no hype just use logic with all the moves we know of them and ( the moves madara used are hashiramas arsenal) now who wins be "unbiased "

That byakugan thing is debatable(i'm not even being stubborn it literally is debatable) since the byakugan can counter every MS technique in existence. I'm not gonna get into that though. To answer your question as to said by who kishi said it through Iruka. I don't believe in the younger generation surpasses the older crap its too inconsistent. There's a lot of the older generation that demolishes the younger.

So how did hiruzen surpass hashirama?

Well for starters he lead konoha on the frontlines in the 2nd world war(hashirama died doing so), he survived 3 world wars, (hashirama died in one) ect those are examples of surpassing.

 

[soulreaper11]

Quick question do you believe byakugan > sharingan ?

as stated it is but it is the uchihas are > cause there people are naturally gifted than the hyuga

 

[Nagatoballer]

Only reason hashirama dominates bijuu because his wood suppresses their chakra please don't ruin his name

Ruin his name are u stupid it does not matter how he did it that was his special power that made him so strong I don't get ur point the first could dominate tailed beast so could madara it doesn't matter if its with shanigan or wood u retard

 

[LegendaryAce]

you need to have Senju DNA in order to use Izanagi. Obviously MS and EMS are superior to byakugan. Use common sense to fill gaps in, sure. But when the Manga tells you otherwise, your "common sense" becomes opinion.

Opinions are like ass holes, everyones got one and they all stink.

So then it's your opinion that ms and ems > byakugan because manga says otherwise

 

[LegendaryAce]

That byakugan thing is debatable(i'm not even being stubborn it literally is debatable) since the byakugan can counter every MS technique in existence. I'm not gonna get into that though. To answer your question as to said by who kishi said it through Iruka. I don't believe in the younger generation surpasses the older crap its too inconsistent. There's a lot of the older generation that demolishes the younger.



Well for starters he lead konoha on the frontlines in the 2nd world war(hashirama died doing so), he survived 3 world wars, (hashirama died in one) ect those are examples of surpassing.

That was the point I was making I am off to sleep as the issue with byakugan is debatable .. This also applies to the hiruzen matter it depends how you take the words from the fight and the ones iruka spouted

 

[oooog]

So then it's your opinion that ms and ems > byakugan because manga says otherwise

The Manga does call those eyes different. I cant remember it was either when Kakashi fought Itachi, or Sasuke fought him in the inn, but he said "you need to have the same eyes as me" or something like that. They are on different levels per Itachi.

(I'm looking for it now)

 

[Unbiased]

Quiet. The adults are talking.

This right here ^^^

That was the point I was making I am off to sleep as the issue with byakugan is debatable .. This also applies to the hiruzen matter it depends how you take the words from the fight and the ones iruka spouted

That's also true, in a sense everything is debatable until its written in absolute concrete. For kishi to say hiruzen was the strongest of all implies he was superior to the previous hokages 1,2,4 but it can't be said indefinitely for the 5th. ***** dude good debate and logic definitely helped bring light onto the subject.

 

[oooog]

100% proof that oro did not have edo perfected if u say that they first and second were at full strength had unlimited stamina and chakra plus can't die and they got owned U R STUPID I will make a list

1.2 hokages that are edo vs 1 hokage that is retired that just sounds dumb no matter who it is
2. Hiruzan is NOT STONGER THEN MADARA OR THE FIRST even if they where a live and not edo and it is soooooo clear because they can easily control tailed beasts hiruzan can not
2.1 prefect susanoo would rape hiruzan
3. the way hiruzan won was with a suicide atk it killed him to win so that is not stronger
4. The biggest point is why no giant wood dragon from the first or space time from the second they did not use all there power
5. Its simple it has been what 2-5 years since oro used edo amd kabuto
Has been working on it since then so it is better now.
6. Your title should say "my stupid opinion that I did not think through" thereis no proof too what u say thereisno proof against it so really stop being so dumb haha saying the third is> then madara and the first soooo dumb
7. Can hiruzan block TBB like the first NO NO NO NO (QUOTE)

Prove any of this wrong really I'm gonna keep posting this until some one can prove it wrong

try to follow along...

#1) 2 hokages vs One hokage did happen. The One hokage beat the other two hokages. No one has ever debated that fact until you came along with your 32 posts.
#2) 1 perfect Susanoo May indeed beat Hiruzen. That was not the point of this thread. The point of this thread is to prove that Orochimaru did in fact master the Edo technique, and that each edo had every ability that they had when alive.
#3) This is not a vs. thread. Hiruzen beat the Hokages, which is what was called into question. Please try to keep up.
#4) Like was said many times before, just cause they didnt use them, didnt mean they didnt have them. This was in fact the Author who drew it before he ever dreamed those techniques up.
#5) Oro perfected the technique per the manga. Meaning that when he used it, it was perfect, meaning it cant get better.
#6) It is proof when he posts manga pages. No one said anything about Hiruzen being better then Madara.
#7) No one said anything about Hiruzen against a TBB?

Now go away.

 

[LegendaryAce]

This right here ^^^



That's also true, in a sense everything is debatable until its written in absolute concrete. For kishi to say hiruzen was the strongest of all implies he was superior to the previous hokages 1,2,4 but it can't be said indefinitely for the 5th. ***** dude good debate and logic definitely helped bring light onto the subject.

Lol people misunderstand I love tht old perv just people end up making me deslike the way they talk about him

I'd argue for him too if people called him weak and yea nice debate you made some really good points I learnt a few things I didn't notice about hiruzen
( thank god you didn't say anything about his prime)

 

[Nagatoballer]

And really compare shannigan to byukugan that is stupid stupid we have all seen with our own eyes that shaningan is better then byukugan it is not debatable until byukugan can do something besides see really good and susanoo is an shannigan tech so how could byukugan even come close o it can't ok

 

[Unbiased]

Lol people misunderstand I love tht old perv just people end up making me deslike the way they talk about him

I'd argue for him too if people called him weak and yea nice debate you made some really good points I learnt a few things I didn't notice about hiruzen
( thank god you didn't say anything about his prime)

Well I don't argue over hypothetical situations. That's what a vs thread is for, this is manga facts to backup my claim I have no need to argue what if's only what happened and the outcome.

 

[Icelerate]

1: Bringing in hypothetical situations only shows desperation in an attempt to win. (no offense) that's like me saying hiruzen could of killed orochimaru when he was a genin or before he defected its obsolete from the situation.

But in that scenario, the Hiruzen we are talking about is the one who battled Orochimaru and he would have gotten owned before the battle even began. How does this relate to Orochimaru being killed when he was a genin since we aren't comparing a genin to a Hokage.

2: Emna was summoned the second he got trapped.

No it took time for him to summon and while he was trapped, none of the three did anything. If all three of them charged him while he summoned Emna and was breaking out, Hiruzen would not have survived such a combination attack especially in the situation he was stuck in.

3: When Hiruzen summoned Emna he charged all 3 of them and got his ass kicked albeit blowing up hashirama's leg and tobirama's arm.

Too bad now we know that Hashirama's healing ability rivals Tsunade so placing explosive tags isn't much of a feat.

4: I don't see the point. Again we can make up hypothetical situations or debate on what happened.

You know as well as I do that Orochimaru could have finished him off but you deny this by saying it is all hypothetical. What is hypothetical is you saying Edo Hashirama was fighting at full potential but I just proved to you he wasn't.

5: Your taking the "toy with you" out of context. Your comparing punches and kicks to kinjutsu, summons, limbs being blown off, fire style, earth style, water style, wood style, kenjutsu, heavy taijutsu ect. That's like comparing a kid with autism, down's syndrome, leukemia, and aids to mike tyson in his prime.

6: They fought back as hiruzen was sealing them.

You must be registered for see images

It is pretty much cannon that Orochimaru wanted to see what Hiruzen had in store so he used the two Hokages as Guinea pigs to see what Hiruzen planned to do.

 

[leggomynecro]

try to follow along...

#1) 2 hokages vs One hokage did happen. The One hokage beat the other two hokages. No one has ever debated that fact until you cae along with your 32 posts.
#2) 1 perfect Susanoo May indeed beat Hiruzen. That was not the point of this thread. The point of this thread is to prove that Orochimaru did in fact master the Edo technique, and that each edo had every ability that they had when alive.
#3) This is not a vs. thread. Hiruzen beat the Hokages, which is what was called into question. Please try to keep up.
#4) Like was said any times before, just cause they didnt use them, didnt mean they didnt have them. This was in fact the Author who drew it before he ever dreamed those techniques up.
#5) Oro perfected the technique per the manga. Meaning that when he used it, it was perfect, meaning it cant get better.
#6) It is proof when he posts manga pages. No one said anything about Hiruzen being better then Madara.
#7) No one said anything about Hiruzen against a TBB?

Now go away.

I appreciate you attempting to educate the ignorant. However don't get too frustrated at Nagatoballer. Trying to debate with users that type you are, "u r" will never get the point. It is also a red flag a troll just entered an already settled debate.