Who was the best water release (suiton) user?

[asparticus]

sir zabuza

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

I have no doubt their chakra levels are high.

But people seem to think just because they're senju, their chakra levels are automatically bumbed up to Bijuu/jinchuuriki levels.

True

 

[Exaar]

I remember him against Gai, but not him flooding a desert w/o any water by him. Know the episode or manga page?

EDIT: Naruto chapter 256 page 3.

It's a water seal, it's not from the air itself.

Befor

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After

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[Midday]

I disagree. Wouldn't Tobirama's chakra reserves be equal to Hashi's? If not a little less. :|

Kisame had bijuu level chakra supplies. Nagato who also has the sages body said he had more chakra than him. We've seen how much chakra Nagato had when he took on konoha. That's why I think Kisame has more chakra.

 

[Omnipotent]

Befor

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After

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What? That's put as a B-rank jutsu, and is translated as "Water Seal". If it's B-rank, that means any Chuunin fodder can do that, and it's obviously not the same thing as Tobirama does; remember that Tobirama was the second-best in the Senju clan based off of his Suiton and quite possibly S/T alone.

 

[Exaar]

What? That's put as a B-rank jutsu, and is translated as "Water Seal". If it's B-rank, that means any Chuunin fodder can do that, and it's obviously not the same thing as Tobirama does; remember that Tobirama was the second-best in the Senju clan based off of his Suiton and quite possibly S/T alone.

The rank is not the point.

Thanks to his Huge chakra levels he can pour massive ammounts of chakra into them, Making even a B-Rank a Huge scale Jutsu.

Lets say someone like Itachi using the same Tech, Wouldn't nearly have the same effects as kisame using it.

 

[Omnipotent]

The rank is not the point.

Thanks to his Huge chakra levels he can pour massive ammounts of chakra into them, Making even a B-Rank a Huge scale Jutsu.

Lets say someone like Itachi using the same Tech, Wouldn't nearly have the same effects as kisame using it.

He can waste massive amounts of chakra on it. I don't even see Tenten dead from that jutsu, and she's fodder (not to mention she was carrying something on her back).

Tobirama, on the other hand, used his suiton and almost suffocated Hiruzen (after Hashirama gave him that nice combo). Also, his suiton is shown to be more powerful than even Hiruzen's katon (fire release) as it evaporated the flames. So even IF Kisame can use suiton at anywhere near the level that Tobirama can (which he cannot), Tobirama is shown to use it much more effectively.

Back to why Tobirama is a better suiton user:

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Tobirama, after just one suiton jutsu, already leaving an ANBU in awe and stated to be Kage level (heck, he's even placed in the same category as Hiruzen and Hashirama since he isn't referenced seperately from them).

 

[Exaar]

What? That's put as a B-rank jutsu, and is translated as "Water Seal". If it's B-rank, that means any Chuunin fodder can do that, and it's obviously not the same thing as Tobirama does; remember that Tobirama was the second-best in the Senju clan based off of his Suiton and quite possibly S/T alone.

Since i Cba to edit.

I'm glad you called Slammed kisame for Using a Mere B-Ranked jutsu that "Any chunin Fodder can use"

Tobirama's sution, Only a B-Rank

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Yet the anbu thought it was amazing how he casted " A mere B-ranked jutsu that any fodder chunin can use" without a water source.

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Second suiton he used, Was again only a "B-Rank that any chunin fodder can use"

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Kisame's Huge scale B-Ranked tech beats both of these Jutsu's tobirama used.

 

[Exaar]

He can waste massive amounts of chakra on it. I don't even see Tenten dead from that jutsu, and she's fodder (not to mention she was carrying something on her back).

Tobirama, on the other hand, used his suiton and almost suffocated Hiruzen (after Hashirama gave him that nice combo). Also, his suiton is shown to be more powerful than even Hiruzen's katon (fire release) as it evaporated the flames. So even IF Kisame can use suiton at anywhere near the level that Tobirama can (which he cannot), Tobirama is shown to use it much more effectively.

Back to why Tobirama is a better suiton user:

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Tobirama, after just one suiton jutsu, already leaving an ANBU in awe and stated to be Kage level (heck, he's even placed in the same category as Hiruzen and Hashirama since he isn't referenced seperately from them).

Read the post i just posted, Your attemts at overrating Tobirama is laughable. Your so called Proof is laughable.

 

[Omnipotent]

Read the post i just posted, Your attemts at overrating Tobirama is laughable. Your so called Proof is laughable.

You know, I could just pull up what I posted in my other thread.

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Tobirama shown to be second-best in the Senju clan, a clan rivaled only by the Uchiha clan; how can Tobirama not be a high-Kage level shinobi if he has to live up to that? Hmm.

Kisame is constantly referenced as an S-rank shinobi, never noted to be Kage-level. After one jutsu, a weakened Edo Tobirama is said to be Kage-level:

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Tobirama, after just one suiton jutsu, already leaving an ANBU in awe and stated to be Kage level (heck, he's even placed in the same category as Hiruzen and Hashirama since he isn't referenced seperately from them).

All I have to do is restate what I said before *shrugs* not too hard. The polls disagree with you as well.

 

[megallica]

tobirama senju. he was said to be able to create an entire ocean while in a middle of the desert. no arguements here, kisame is nowhere on that level.

 

[Omnipotent]

tobirama senju. he was said to be able to create an entire ocean while in a middle of the desert. no arguements here, kisame is nowhere on that level.

Bang bang *Chief Keef voice*. Reps, you got straight to the point.

 

[Exaar]

You know, I could just pull up what I posted in my other thread.


Kisame is constantly referenced as an S-rank shinobi, never noted to be Kage-level. After one jutsu, a weakened Edo Tobirama is said to be Kage-level:

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Tobirama, after just one suiton jutsu, already leaving an ANBU in awe and stated to be Kage level (heck, he's even placed in the same category as Hiruzen and Hashirama since he isn't referenced seperately from them).

All I have to do is restate what I said before *shrugs* not too hard. The polls disagree with you as well.

I like how you completely ignored my other post.
That Jutsu tobirama used was only B-Rank and very small scale.

The Jutsu i posted Kisame doing >>>>>> the Jutsu's tobirama used against hiruzen.

As i said, It's laughable that you think Tobirama's small scale B-Ranked Tech puts him above kisame Flooding an entire area with only a B-Rank Jutsu.
Also you forget, When kisame flooded that area, He was only at 30% of his max chakra.

I could not careless what the Polls say.

Anyone who reads the manga knows kisame is easily kage level.

tobirama senju. he was said to be able to create an entire ocean while in a middle of the desert. no arguements here, kisame is nowhere on that level.

Show me where and when tobirama created an ocean.

 

[megallica]

Show me where and when tobirama created an ocean.

lol i like how you go straight for the kill because you know i cant bring up proof, we have never seen tobirama battle at his full extent so theres no proof i can give you and you know that. but hashirama was said to be able to create forests out of nothing before we saw his powers, and that is 100% true now, i dont see why that wouldnt apply to tobirama who shares the same blood as him.

 

[hanothemano]

Your topic is very broad and can be taken in a number of ways i.e. who has the best water technique? Kisame's shark bullet is probably the most op tech as it absorbs chakra and makes it stronger (imagine if madara or naruto fired their strongest techniques at him).

Keeping in mind the 'best suiton user' without question it would have to be tobirama because he became the hokage for it and was able to defeat the gold and silver brothers (barely) and he has S/T ninjutsu which puts him up there with obito and minato.

 

[Exaar]

lol i like how you go straight for the kill because you know i cant bring up proof, we have never seen tobirama battle at his full extent so theres no proof i can give you and you know that. but hashirama was said to be able to create forests out of nothing before we saw his powers, and that is 100% true now, i dont see why that wouldnt apply to tobirama who shares the same blood as him.

That logic fails.
Just becasue they share the same blood doesn't mean they're alike, Hashirama has mokuton, Tobirama doesn't.

Just because hashirama can use Huge scale jutsu's doesn't mean Tobirama can "Create an ocean".

You also claimed Kisame is no where near his level, Yet i linked a scan of him flooding an Area with ease. Yet he only had 30% of his Max chakra.

 

[TheCCV]

Tobirama because he has the advantage of title, legacy and reputation.
But Kisame is no less impressive either, his water dome is just as big a feat as summoning tsunami's.

 

[Omnipotent]

I like how you completely ignored my other post.
That Jutsu tobirama used was only B-Rank and very small scale.

The Jutsu i posted Kisame doing >>>>>> the Jutsu's tobirama used against hiruzen.

As i said, It's laughable that you think Tobirama's small scale B-Ranked Tech puts him above kisame Flooding an entire area with only a B-Rank Jutsu.
Also you forget, When kisame flooded that area, He was only at 30% of his max chakra.

I could not careless what the Polls say.

Anyone who reads the manga knows kisame is easily kage level.

I'm glad to know that you noticed. That jutsu that the weakened Edo Tobirama used successfully countered the Sandaime Hokage's katon jutsu. The jutsu Kisame used failed to even kill Tenten *shrugs*.

Because Kisame's jutsu killed Tenten, right?

 

[megallica]

That logic fails.
Just becasue they share the same blood doesn't mean they're alike, Hashirama has mokuton, Tobirama doesn't.

Just because hashirama can use Huge scale jutsu's doesn't mean Tobirama can "Create an ocean".

You also claimed Kisame is no where near his level, Yet i linked a scan of him flooding an Area with ease. Yet he only had 30% of his Max chakra.

listen smart guy, why dont you give me some some proof that tobirama cant make an ocean out of nothing ? thats right you cant.. its because tobirama has no feats and lived around the same era as madara did. this is much like how we heard madara and his powers back then and were amazed by it, but we didnt actually see those powers until recently. until we see tobirama in action, we cant make a comparison. but the fact that people in the manga are saying that hes the best suiton user that ever lived, while living in the age where kisame is alive and well is saying something.

 

[Exaar]

listen smart guy, why dont you give me some some proof that tobirama cant make an ocean out of nothing ? thats right you cant.. its because tobirama has no feats and lived around the same era as madara did. this is much like how we heard madara and his powers back then and were amazed by it, but we didnt actually see those powers until recently. until we see tobirama in action, we cant make a comparison. but the fact that people in the manga are saying that hes the best suiton user that ever lived, while living in the age where kisame is alive and well is saying something.

My proof is that he hasn't done it in the manga, Nor has it ever been hinted that he could do it.

He might be more skilled than kisame in suiton, But in a battle of Suiton, kisames Gian shark bullet Beats any Suiton jutsu tobirama has.

Why is that?, Because it absorbs Chakra and Grows stronger depending on the strength of the jutsu it absorbs. Kisames Giant shark bullet can beat most forms of ninjutsu because it absorbs chakra.