Why do people underrate Tobirama?

[Piratefish]

DrProof appears to have a major crush on him.

But yeah, he has an interesting spread of specialities and should be rated more highly than he is. It's just, his performance against Hiruzen was both less than spectacular and has also been overshadowed, and his death scene was unsatisfying.

Plus he doesn't have Madara singing his praises at every opportunity.

 

[Voltron]

ummmm, because we can?

 

[Piratefish]

ummmm, because we can?

Best answer to any question.

 

[YellowFlash1]

I honestly don't think it's a case of underestimating him. I think he's just particularly hard to speculate considering we don't have a great amount of knowledge on him.

We know he can use S/T, He was a master at water element based attack's! Yeah, he sound's strong and given he was a Senju i recon he was a beast, however without any actual feat's it's hard to say wither or not he's top 10.

 

[Omnipotent]

The answer is simple, he is the Hokage we know the least and the few feats we know about him are overlooked because:

1 - His water jutsu
When Tobirama made his debut in the manga the fact he was able to use Suiton techniques with no nearby water bodies was treated as a legendary skill and an statement of his power, even Zabuza needed water. Today, many water users displayed the ability to vomit their own water making Tobirama's once legendary skill something mundane. Yes, you heard me well, Tobirama vomits water to make his Suiton jutsu, the air moisture stuff was only in the anime.

2 - Edo Tensei
Indeed one of the most broken techniques ever created in this manga. We know Tobirama created it and that alone could make him one of the most powerful characters, except for the fact it was Orochimaru who finished it. That makes the implication he started researching it, but changed his mind, labeled it as forbidden and dropped the project. It is questionable how far he came into said research or if he was able to use Edo Tensei in an incomplete form.

3 - His S/T Technique
Probably the most controversal of his skills. Kishimoto said he had a S/T jutsu, but never stated how it worked, its effects, we don't even know the name of the jutsu. It is problematic to take into account a technique we don't know anything about.

By the way, there's another problem. He is the brother of the legendary Hashirama, a character that received so much attention nowadays his feats are completely overshadowing his brother. People tend to overlook Tobirama in favor of Hashirama.
Well, I suppose it explains the most common reasons about why he is so underrated. Basically, people don't want the author to say "look, that character is strong" through the mouth of someone to prove said character's strength, they want him to actually show it. We had an opportunity to see Hashirama's techniques through Madara's hands, now we need an opportunity for Tobirama, an actual display/explanation of his S/T tech should help.

Woah, that was nice dude. With the Edo Tensei part, I'd have to agree. He was probably depressed that Hashirama died or something? The fact that he started the concept alone is just beast.

I don't think enough is known about him for us to rate him. He is a mystery

While this is true, this does not give people on the Base the right to underrate him (because as you said, he can't be rated in the first place).

Mostly because we haven't seen him in action apart from when he was revived by Oro, but that wasn't alot and because he was killed by 20 elite Kumohagure ninjas. Me personally think that he possessed great power to become a kage and he was the creator of Edo Tensei plus he was said to be an amazing water user performing Suiton jutsu's without a water source.

I agree with you. Let me back you up.

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Anyways, this also shows that Tobirama was a beast. Greatest in Konoha during the First Shinobi World War, when the village was FULL of Uchiha and possibly even other Senjus? Let's not even get started on him, though, it's obvious how good he is.

 

[Exaar]

People on the Base constantly forget that Minato studied and based his S/T jutsu off of Tobirama's (he only references to 'Lord Second'"s S/T jutsu, and who else could he had based his S/T jutsu off of?).

The best water style user makes him > Kisame. The fact that he has combination jutsu with his brother means he was around his level. Like I said before, although we don't know too much about him, it's unfair to put low-Kage level shinobi above him.

Minato's S/T being based of Tobirama's is pure speculation.

Just because Tobirama is the best water style user doesn't mean he > kisame, Kisame's giant shark bullet > Any Water style ninjutsu tobirama can throw at him.

I would put him Mid kage at best, As i said he is Almost Featless/Hypless, People always thinks hes super strong because he is hashirama's brother.

Look at Hiruzen The name who is named a God of shinobi, Then look at asuma.

 

[lol99]

Minato's S/T being based of Tobirama's is pure speculation.

Just because Tobirama is the best water style user doesn't mean he > kisame, Kisame's giant shark bullet > Any Water style ninjutsu tobirama can throw at him.

I would put him Mid kage at best, As i said he is Almost Featless/Hypless, People always thinks hes super strong because he is hashirama's brother.

Look at Hiruzen The name who is named a God of shinobi, Then look at asuma.

exactly, the difference between them is just hilarious

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[Omnipotent]

Minato's S/T being based of Tobirama's is pure speculation.

Just because Tobirama is the best water style user doesn't mean he > kisame, Kisame's giant shark bullet > Any Water style ninjutsu tobirama can throw at him.

I would put him Mid kage at best, As i said he is Almost Featless/Hypless, People always thinks hes super strong because he is hashirama's brother.

Look at Hiruzen The name who is named a God of shinobi, Then look at asuma.

It's more likely than not that he based it off of Tobirama's and improved upon it; it is Minato himself that implies Tobirama was highly skilled in S/T ninjutsu. Where else would have Minato learned it from when besides himself, Tobirama was the only one shown to use S/T ninjutsu? (except for Obito, but he comes later).

So you're basically saying Gai > Tobirama. I see.

Asuma probably had a no-name sensei; and his affinity was rare in Konoha. Had he been personally trained by Danzo (another wind affinity user), he could've been above Kakashi (maybe he could have had a sharingan eye for himself). Hiruzen was taught by the Shodai and the Nidaime, with affinities that were more common that he could receive help with. Hiruzen grew up during the First Shinobi World War, and Asuma grew up during the Third Shinobi World War. Big difference between those two.

 

[Exaar]

It's more likely than not that he based it off of Tobirama's and improved upon it; it is Minato himself that implies Tobirama was highly skilled in S/T ninjutsu. Where else would have Minato learned it from when besides himself, Tobirama was the only one shown to use S/T ninjutsu? (except for Obito, but he comes later).

So you're basically saying Gai > Tobirama. I see.

Asuma probably had a no-name sensei; and his affinity was rare in Konoha. Had he been personally trained by Danzo (another wind affinity user), he could've been above Kakashi (maybe he could have had a sharingan eye for himself). Hiruzen was taught by the Shodai and the Nidaime, with affinities that were more common that he could receive help with. Hiruzen grew up during the First Shinobi World War, and Asuma grew up during the Third Shinobi World War. Big difference between those two.

Sorry but where are you getting your Facts from, Asuma trained by Danzo wtf?
You're excuses for asuma are pretty weak. Naruto was Taught by Kakashi/jiraiya, He is Strong, Nagato was Taught by jiraiyaa and he is insanely strong.
The strength of your sensei doesn't mean much. It's the person that matters more than the sensei

We simply do not know enough about his back story to say where FTG came from, it could of been part of the namikaze clan and minato took it to the next level, it could of been a uzumaki tech that minato took to the next level.

Also what if Gai can defeat Tobirama?, People hugely overrate tobirama simply because he is hashirama's brother, or because he is senju.

 

[Thundercles]

Search bar. This has been made 1000 times.

 

[Omnipotent]

Sorry but where are you getting your Facts from, Asuma trained by Danzo wtf?
You're excuses for asuma are pretty weak. Naruto was Taught by Kakashi/jiraiya, He is Strong, Nagato was Taught by jiraiyaa and he is insanely strong.
The strength of your sensei doesn't mean much. It's the person that matters more than the sensei

We simply do not know enough about his back story to say where FTG came from, it could of been part of the namikaze clan and minato took it to the next level, it could of been a uzumaki tech that minato took to the next level.

Also what if Gai can defeat Tobirama?, People hugely overrate tobirama simply because he is hashirama's brother, or because he is senju.

What're you talking about? I was speaking hypothetically.
No, they are not; you misread. IF Asuma had a teacher to assist him with his wind (and the only person who is known to have a great wind affinity during that time was Danzo, so he would be the teacher), he could have been > Kakashi.
I didn't say that he would inherit strength from Danzo, once again that is your false assumption.

Then how come Minato never referenced the Namikaze and Uzumaki clans but he referenced Tobirama? Hmm.

I'm about to pull out the link again.

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Tobirama stated to be the strongest ninja in the village (and the way Danzo said it shows that it was indisputable) during the First Shinobi World War when there were other Kage-level shinobi such as Hiruzen himself and Danzo (and possibly much more, it's the First Shinobi World War we're talking about here).

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Tobirama shown to be second-best in the Senju clan, a clan rivaled only by the Uchiha clan; how can Tobirama not be a high-Kage level shinobi if he has to live up to that? Hmm.

 

[Exaar]

What're you talking about? I was speaking hypothetically.
No, they are not; you misread. IF Asuma had a teacher to assist him with his wind (and the only person who is known to have a great wind affinity during that time was Danzo, so he would be the teacher), he could have been > Kakashi.
I didn't say that he would inherit strength from Danzo, once again that is your false assumption.

Then how come Minato never referenced the Namikaze and Uzumaki clans but he referenced Tobirama? Hmm.

I'm about to pull out the link again.

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Tobirama stated to be the strongest ninja in the village (and the way Danzo said it shows that it was indisputable) during the First Shinobi World War when there were other Kage-level shinobi such as Hiruzen himself and Danzo (and possibly much more, it's the First Shinobi World War we're talking about here).

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Tobirama shown to be second-best in the Senju clan, a clan rivaled only by the Uchiha clan; how can Tobirama not be a high-Kage level shinobi if he has to live up to that? Hmm.

There all "Ifs" and "buts" about asuma, The fact is, he is related to hiruzen who by hype is one of the best shinobi to have lived, Yet asuma was nothing more than Mid-Jonin level.
Same can be said for Tobirama, Just because his brother is insanely strong, Doesn't make tobirama.

Danzo and Hiruzen were Youngers during Tobirama's time as Hokage. Sure Tobirama > Young hiruzen/Danzo.

I have no doubt tobirama is strong, but people hype him up to be something he is not just because of hashirama, Talking about tobirama's strength is pointless since he is almost Featless/Hypless.

 

[Omnipotent]

There all "Ifs" and "buts" about asuma, The fact is, he is related to hiruzen who by hype is one of the best shinobi to have lived, Yet asuma was nothing more than Mid-Jonin level.
Same can be said for Tobirama, Just because his brother is insanely strong, Doesn't make tobirama.

Danzo and Hiruzen were Youngers during Tobirama's time as Hokage. Sure Tobirama > Young hiruzen/Danzo.

I have no doubt tobirama is strong, but people hype him up to be something he is not just because of hashirama, Talking about tobirama's strength is pointless since he is almost Featless/Hypless.

So you're hyping Hiruzen up? Asuma was Mid-Jonin level? He could fight evenly with Hidan, an S-rank ninja while also protecting his team using taijutsu. It would take at least a High-Jonin level shinobi to do this (note how I'm not saying that Asuma could've beaten Hidan, but if you think he could have that's up to you) high-Jonin < S-rank =< low-Kage level.

What? So you're saying that Tobirama > Young Hiruzen/Danzo who were both stated to be Kage level by Tobirama himself. Once again you yourself are supporting that Tobirama is high-Kage level.

I am trying not to relate him to Hashirama. What you're saying is that Tobirama can be beaten by Gai, who is a mid-Kage level shinobi at best, making Tobirama himself a low-Kage level shinobi. What that means is that you're saying the fact that the Senju clan was rivaled only by the Uchiha clan is solely because of Hashirama and that Hashirama solos everything. But you can't be thinking that, right? I hope not. Once again, because Tobirama is shown to be second-best in the Senju clan, he must be a high-Kage level shinobi. Why? Because do you really think he would have survived against the tens, maybe even hundreds of battles they had against the Uchiha clan alone?

 

[Exaar]

So you're hyping Hiruzen up? Asuma was Mid-Jonin level? He could fight evenly with Hidan, an S-rank ninja while also protecting his team using taijutsu. It would take at least a High-Jonin level shinobi to do this (note how I'm not saying that Asuma could've beaten Hidan, but if you think he could have that's up to you) high-Jonin < S-rank =< low-Kage level.

What? So you're saying that Tobirama > Young Hiruzen/Danzo who were both stated to be Kage level by Tobirama himself. Once again you yourself are supporting that Tobirama is high-Kage level.

I am trying not to relate him to Hashirama. What you're saying is that Tobirama can be beaten by Gai, who is a mid-Kage level shinobi at best, making Tobirama himself a low-Kage level shinobi. What that means is that you're saying the fact that the Senju clan was rivaled only by the Uchiha clan is solely because of Hashirama and that Hashirama solos everything. But you can't be thinking that, right? I hope not. Once again, because Tobirama is shown to be second-best in the Senju clan, he must be a high-Kage level shinobi. Why? Because do you really think he would have survived against the tens, maybe even hundreds of battles they had against the Uchiha clan alone?

Tobirama did no state Danzo was Kage level.

We have no idea how strong Hiruzen was at that Age, I'm not supporting anything, You're clearly trying to twist things to look like their in tobirama's favour.
Saying He is High kage just because he is stronger than Young Hiruzen is laughable. Your just assuming that Young hiruzen Mid-High kage.

Even if Gai can beat him, This does not put him on "low Kage".

 

[Omnipotent]

Tobirama did no state Danzo was Kage level.

We have no idea how strong Hiruzen was at that Age, I'm not supporting anything, You're clearly trying to twist things to look like their in tobirama's favour.
Saying He is High kage just because he is stronger than Young Hiruzen is laughable. Your just assuming that Young hiruzen Mid-High kage.

Even if Gai can beat him, This does not put him on "low Kage".

What you're doing is hypocritical; you hyped up Hiruzen to make a statement but yet you claim that I'm attempting to hype up Tobirama. It's a good thing you're not too stubborn though, I noticed you gave up on Hiruzen and Asuma because you knew you were not correct.

Tobirama did however state that Danzo and Hiruzen were "rivals in everything", and I do believe that everything includes skill.

Pulling out the page again, wow:

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"It's true I was slow with my decision"; this implies that Tobirama was thinking about who would be his successor for a while now. This also means that Hiruzen had been Kage-level for a while, and because Hiruzen and Danzo were "rivals in everything", Danzo was also Kage-level for a while. It's assumed that his decision was between Danzo and Hiruzen, because they were the only two candidates shown and had Danzo been willing to sacrifice himself he very well could have been the Sandaime Hokage (as much as I don't like him, I have to admit this).

I said he was high-Kage level because he is second-best of the Senju clan, a clan rivaled only by the Uchiha clan; you must have bad memory for me to have to repeat myself so many times:

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Oh? Then what does it make him? He must be below Gai to lose to him.

 

[TheCCV]

3 reasons.
He's a water user, people assume that unless you're Zabuza or Kisame, you aren't worth the mention, when truthfully, he could probably do all the things that they could, but on a whole nother scale of power.
He didn't get enough screentime.
And he's the least mentioned Hokage out there. Hashirama is hailed as the 2nd king of the shinobi world next to So6P, Minato gets a lot of attention as Naruto's father and reputation of speed, Tsunade is still alive, and Hiruzen got a full fledged fight scene with Oro.

 

[Exaar]

What you're doing is hypocritical; you hyped up Hiruzen to make a statement but yet you claim that I'm attempting to hype up Tobirama. It's a good thing you're not too stubborn though, I noticed you gave up on Hiruzen and Asuma because you knew you were not correct.

Tobirama did however state that Danzo and Hiruzen were "rivals in everything", and I do believe that everything includes skill.

Pulling out the page again, wow:

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"It's true I was slow with my decision"; this implies that Tobirama was thinking about who would be his successor for a while now. This also means that Hiruzen had been Kage-level for a while, and because Hiruzen and Danzo were "rivals in everything", Danzo was also Kage-level for a while. It's assumed that his decision was between Danzo and Hiruzen, because they were the only two candidates shown and had Danzo been willing to sacrifice himself he very well could have been the Sandaime Hokage (as much as I don't like him, I have to admit this).

I said he was high-Kage level because he is second-best of the Senju clan, a clan rivaled only by the Uchiha clan; you must have bad memory for me to have to repeat myself so many times:

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Oh? Then what does it make him? He must be below Gai to lose to him.

I was not correct?. I was simply pointing out that just because your related to someone insanely strong doesn't make you automatically strong, I was using Hiruzen and Asuma as an example.
I was not wrong, Asuma is nothing compared to Hiruzen.

You missunderstand what Tobirama is saying, He is bacially saying They always compete with each in everything the do, And they needed to stop competeing with each other and work together.
He did not mean they were rivals in strength.

All you do is Link that senju Pic thinking is proves anything, Just because he is second in the senju clan, Does not give him a Free pass to High kage level.
When/if he shows more Feats or gets more hype then sure.
an
It wouldn't change his ranking, He would be a Mid kage shinobi that lost to someone similar in strength. It wouldn't demote him simply because he lost to someone around his own strength.

 

[Omnipotent]

I was not correct?. I was simply pointing out that just because your related to someone insanely strong doesn't make you automatically strong, I was using Hiruzen and Asuma as an example.
I was not wrong, Asuma is nothing compared to Hiruzen.

You missunderstand what Tobirama is saying, He is bacially saying They always compete with each in everything the do, And they needed to stop competeing with each other and work together.
He did not mean they were rivals in strength.

All you do is Link that senju Pic thinking is proves anything, Just because he is second in the senju clan, Does not give him a Free pass to High kage level.
When/if he shows more Feats or gets more hype then sure.
an
It wouldn't change his ranking, He would be a Mid kage shinobi that lost to someone similar in strength. It wouldn't demote him simply because he lost to someone around his own strength.

Nevermind, lol *rubs back of neck*.

If Danzo was nowhere near Hiruzen's level, they wouldn't be able to compete at all. And no, they were rivals in strength; they both were going for the title of Hokage and Hiruzen won that because of his acceptance to be the decoy for the rest of the group (the Will of Fire).

Oh? Does it not? Are you assuming that the Senju clan won the clan wars through numbers then? If they were so high in numbers, how did they die out so easily? No, the Senju clan won through having brilliant shinobi, and if Tobirama is the second-best of the clan in their prime, then he is deserving of high-Kage level. If his weakened Edo version of himself is considered Kage-level after displaying but just one jutsu, then he's obviously high-Kage level in his prime.

So what you're trying to say is if Gai was a shinobi during the First Shinobi World War, after the First Hokage died, he himself, Maito Gai, would be the Nidaime Hokage?

 

[Kinimaster]

Because he lacks both, feats and hype, but to me he is probably Orochimaru level at least.

 

[Omnipotent]

Because he lacks both, feats and hype, but to me he is probably Orochimaru level at least.

Opinions are respected.