If Madara was the 2nd SO6P and Nagato was the 3rd, than he couldn't have met Obito

[10023213]

Than answer this:

If Nagato awakened the Rinnegan naturally, that means there are two pairs of Rinnegan out there. If that were the case, why did Obito wait until Nagato's death to retrieve them?

I think it is very clear that there is only 1 pair of Rinnegan currently in existence, which would imply Madara giving Nagato his Rinnegan.

idk many things are unrevealed yet
thier is no evidence besides madara saying that he gave rinnegan to nagato that nagato was given any uchicha dna and it was shown that he awakened it and the manga said that when he gained the rinnegan he killed whoever was there which means if madara or obito or anyone gave it to him they would be dead

notice how nagato is an uzumaki and he is able to use the rinnegan so good while the uchicha need senju dna and when they do get it they still can't use it to it's full potential like nagato

 

[OnPoint]

I guess that is the best way to explain this, but the 15 years is basically a minimum.

For Madara to have plotted with Tobi and possibly lived long enough to help Itachi slaughter the Uchiha would put it at more like 25 years. Again, this was one of the ways out of the plot hole, but it is very strange that Madara would make the statement in that way if it was 15-25 years.

I myself

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about this and believed it to be impossible. However, he knows Tobi and Nagato. And Nagato's Rinnegan possesses all the traits of a transplanted eye. I don't see any other way (bar the 'shortly' explanation) this can make sense without introducing time travel.

 

[Urda]

idk many things are unrevealed yet
thier is no evidence besides madara saying that he gave rinnegan to nagato that nagato was given any uchicha dna and it was shown that he awakened it and the manga said that when he gained the rinnegan he killed whoever was there which means if madara or obito or anyone gave it to him they would be dead

notice how nagato is an uzumaki and he is able to use the rinnegan so good while the uchicha need senju dna and when they do get it they still can't use it to it's full potential like nagato

Tobi (Obito) claimed that Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan. Tobi (Obito) specifically said Uzumaki trait mark and not reference anything Uchiha-like. Rinnegan is a natural evolution of Sharingan which means Hashirama's DNA is not required. However, Hashirama's DNA could have been speculated to reduce the draw-backs upon the body due to its life force. Uzumaki is a distance cousin to the Senju which means, I assuming, their body is able to handle the Rinnegan effects as well.

 

[ChrisWolf]

The title pretty much says it all. People have been trying to put the timeline together, but no one seems to focus on chapter 510, a very important piece of evidence.

In this chapter, Tobi says outright that he (or Uchiha Madara) was/ is the second sage of the six paths and that Nagato was the third:

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The point of this thread is that what Tobi told Konan and what he said to a dead Nagato must be the truth, at least the truth in regard to the real Madara. Kishi established a scenario in the manga where we were given direct facts about Madara.

But however you analyze it, if Madara was in fact the 2nd SO6P and Nagato was the third, there is no way Madara actually knew Obito.

This is assuming Madara was being truthful when he said he unlocked the rinnegan shortly before dieing, also a scenario where Madara has no reason to lie:

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So if Madara was the 2nd sage, that means he unlocked Rinnegan before Nagato did. In fact, that implies that he ended up giving Nagato his own Rinnegan, hence Tobi saying he gave the Rinnegan to Nagato. But if this were true, than Madara would have died long before Obito's time, meaning there is no possible way he could have ever met him.

In conclusion, for all this to be true, either Madara died twice (meaning he was revived once and met Obito before dieing again) or Kishi has made a pretty substantial blunder. If Kishi did make a mistake, than it can only be covered up by assuming either Tobi or Madara lied about Madara in a situation were there was no risk to them telling the truth.

Opinions? Comments? Rage?

In my opinion I think kishi will cover up all the plot holes simply by revealing that tobi has lied about pretty everything he's ever said in the entire manga......then he will give a story that will make sense and piece things together, we already know tobi has lied a lot so I think kishi is basically portraying him as a liar to us.

 

[Floydical]

idk many things are unrevealed yet
thier is no evidence besides madara saying that he gave rinnegan to nagato that nagato was given any uchicha dna and it was shown that he awakened it and the manga said that when he gained the rinnegan he killed whoever was there which means if madara or obito or anyone gave it to him they would be dead

notice how nagato is an uzumaki and he is able to use the rinnegan so good while the uchicha need senju dna and when they do get it they still can't use it to it's full potential like nagato

The way Nagato awakened the Rinnegan has a lot of open ended possibilities to it.

One possibility is that those weren't actually his parents, they could have been adoptive parents. Another thing to note is that we never actually saw Nagato's eyes before he was shown to have the Rinnegan. It is possible that he had the rinnegan active before that or was only able to use it for short amounts of time when he was a kid.

However you look at it, it is very possible that Madara could have implanted the Rinnegan in Nagato at some point, with Genjutsu involved, and left him to master it himself. If Nagato's limited stamina as a child limited his use of the Doujutsu, that would explain the fact that we only saw it active some of the time.

 

[10023213]

Tobi (Obito) claimed that Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan. Tobi (Obito) specifically said Uzumaki trait mark and not reference anything Uchiha-like. Rinnegan is a natural evolution of Sharingan which means Hashirama's DNA is not required. However, Hashirama's DNA could have been speculated to reduce the draw-backs upon the body due to its life force. Uzumaki is a distance cousin to the Senju which means, I assuming, their body is able to handle the Rinnegan effects as well.

ok lets get this straight i want everybody to see this.

rinnegan is not an evolution of sharingan because if that was the case then tobi/obito/madara(whatever) would not need hashi's dna to get the rinnegan
it says it on the tablet
as far as we know the sage could be a uzumaki because the uzumakis are known for there sealing tecs and there bodies are technically stronger than the senjus because they hold tailed beast better
there is a reason why nagato was able to use the rinnegan better than anyone else probably besides the so6p in narutoverse

some people think nagato has transplanted eyes because he is always shown with the rinnegan but that's only because he was only shown using the rinnegan in dire situations where he had to use the rinnegan

 

[Floydical]

I myself

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about this and believed it to be impossible. However, he knows Tobi and Nagato. And Nagato's Rinnegan possesses all the traits of a transplanted eye. I don't see any other way (bar the 'shortly' explanation) this can make sense without introducing time travel.

That was a nice read, our two threads are essentially identical xd.

But ya other than time travel or the loose expression of 'shortly', there is really no other explanation to all this.

I agree that Nagato's rinnegan certainly does seem to be transplanted. The way he has been shown in the manga, and even the lack of showing Nagato's eyes as a kid, certainly implies it. But like I said before, its possible that a very young Nagato could only utilize the Rinnegan for short bursts, thus most of the time it might have automatically deactivated.

In my opinion I think kishi will cover up all the plot holes simply by revealing that tobi has lied about pretty everything he's ever said in the entire manga......then he will give a story that will make sense and piece things together, we already know tobi has lied a lot so I think kishi is basically portraying him as a liar to us.

Actually, Tobi's lies were not really lies in most cases. Almost all of them can be explained as things Madara did during his lifetime. This is really the only serious plot hole that cannot be covered by Madara rather than Tobi.

ok lets get this straight i want everybody to see this.

rinnegan is not an evolution of sharingan because if that was the case then tobi/obito/madara(whatever) would not need hashi's dna to get the rinnegan
it says it on the tablet
as far as we know the sage could be a uzumaki because the uzumakis are known for there sealing tecs and there bodies are technically stronger than the senjus because they hold tailed beast better
there is a reason why nagato was able to use the rinnegan better than anyone else probably besides the so6p in narutoverse

some people think nagato has transplanted eyes because he is always shown with the rinnegan but that's only because he was only shown using the rinnegan in dire situations where he had to use the rinnegan

Rinnegan is, without a doubt, an evolution of the Sharingan. The only question is in fact if Senju DNA is required. I get the feeling more and more nowadays that Senju DNA is required, but it is still possible that it is not. Either way, Kishi will have to confirm this at some point, if in fact Sasuke gets a hold of the Doujutsu.

 

[10023213]

That was a nice read, our two threads are essentially identical xd.

But ya other than time travel or the loose expression of 'shortly', there is really no other explanation to all this.

I agree that Nagato's rinnegan certainly does seem to be transplanted. The way he has been shown in the manga, and even the lack of showing Nagato's eyes as a kid, certainly implies it. But like I said before, its possible that a very young Nagato could only utilize the Rinnegan for short bursts, thus most of the time it might have automatically deactivated.



Actually, Tobi's lies were not really lies in most cases. Almost all of them can be explained as things Madara did during his lifetime. This is really the only serious plot hole that cannot be covered by Madara rather than Tobi.



Rinnegan is, without a doubt, an evolution of the Sharingan. The only question is in fact if Senju DNA is required. I get the feeling more and more nowadays that Senju DNA is required, but it is still possible that it is not. Either way, Kishi will have to confirm this at some point, if in fact Sasuke gets a hold of the Doujutsu.

if senju is required then it's not an evolution but something completley different
only when someone else beside nagato like sasuke awakens the rinnegan will i believe that the rinnegan is an evolution of sharingan

 

[KidGamer65]

I believe that both halves of The Sage of Six Path's power are needed for Rinnegan: The Body and The Eyes, after upgrading the Sharingan (The Eyes) to it's highest level (EMS) you can then implant Senju DNA (The Body) and obtain the Rinnegan.

 

[Edge]

Rage.

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[Urda]

ok lets get this straight i want everybody to see this.

rinnegan is not an evolution of sharingan because if that was the case then tobi/obito/madara(whatever) would not need hashi's dna to get the rinnegan
it says it on the tablet
as far as we know the sage could be a uzumaki because the uzumakis are known for there sealing tecs and there bodies are technically stronger than the senjus because they hold tailed beast better
there is a reason why nagato was able to use the rinnegan better than anyone else probably besides the so6p in narutoverse

some people think nagato has transplanted eyes because he is always shown with the rinnegan but that's only because he was only shown using the rinnegan in dire situations where he had to use the rinnegan

Fact: Nagato never shown an inactive Rinnegan... Also, what was Kabuto saying?

Spoiler

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He makes a point to mention it, because Kabuto brought it up. As I said, there's nothing to show Madara was surprised he could use the Rinnegan and he wouldn't be. Kabuto didn't upgrade it, because he didn't even know Madara had it. He states he made Madara better than in his Golden Age, which still hasn't been expanded upon. Rinnegan-Madara had that before death. Age-His corpse looked young even while dead, and Tobi didn't show any surprise at it. Nothing to show that "Beyond his golden age" has anything to do with those things.

What's most likely? Mokuton, because we've seen examples of Orochimaru's handiwork with it before and it looked exactly like it does on Madara. Now, unless anyone who implants Senju DNA gets Hashirama's face, it's clear that Kabuto did some work on that. Plus, Madara's been stating the entire fight that he wanted to test out the Mokuton. Why would he need to test it out, when he's had it since after his battle with Hashirama, until his death? (Which was sometime around Nagato's childhood=Decades of having the Mokuton) Wouldn't he have known the limits of it after all those years? Of course. The answer is because he wanted to see exactly what Kabuto had done to it. OR, Madara never had Mokuton before his death, as he's never actually said he did, which also works. And he's simply been trying it out for the first time during this fight. Either he had Mokuton before death and he wanted to see its upgrades or he just got it and is indeed testing it for the first time.

We however know for a FACT that he had the Rinnegan before his death, and wouldn't need to test it out at all or be surprised he could use it.

Source: Onemanga [Member: Ace1225]

 

[10023213]

^^lol kabuto knows nothing........he claimed himself to be the closest to the so6p and talks about sharingan and rinnegan but doesn't even have it......nuff said

 

[Urda]

^^lol kabuto knows nothing........he claimed himself to be the closest to the so6p and talks about sharingan and rinnegan but doesn't even have it......nuff said

How can you say that? Those are Kishi's words and not words of a character.

 

[10023213]

How can you say that? Those are Kishi's words and not words of a character.

who says the characters kishi makes can't lie(if he wants them to)...ummmm *cough* *cough* tobi, kages, kabuto *cough* *cough*

 

[psukkar]

one of the many plot holes that kishi indroduced when he made obito, tobi.


we just have to wait.

 

[New Era]

we don't know when madara even died so when obito was a kid, madara could have still met with obito.

madara had senju and uchiha dna together which tsunade states is immortality so madara could be alive for all these years and then have died for unlocking the rinnegan when he met obito.

 

[shri3kbat]

Rinnegan is, without a doubt, an evolution of the Sharingan. The only question is in fact if Senju DNA is required. I get the feeling more and more nowadays that Senju DNA is required, but it is still possible that it is not. Either way, Kishi will have to confirm this at some point, if in fact Sasuke gets a hold of the Doujutsu.

I'm 99.9% sure Senju DNA is required. It makes sense because Uchiha lack the chakra stamina of Senju so they get are born with Sharingan which is much more energy preserving than Rinnegan. Even Madara needed Hashirama's DNA to unlock Rinnegan and I think it was said he had a very strong body by Uchiha standards.

 

[supino]

In my opinion I think kishi will cover up all the plot holes simply by revealing that tobi has lied about pretty everything he's ever said in the entire manga......then he will give a story that will make sense and piece things together, we already know tobi has lied a lot so I think kishi is basically portraying him as a liar to us.

imho Kishi will retcon material to get away with all those inconsistencies. he could accomplish that by making Tobi/Obito a huge liar, which also doesn't make sense as a lot of the story has developed based on the info Obito shared.

One does not simply retcon a character. if Kishi starts altering a little bit here and a little more there, then before you know it more plotholes will appear.

other than that, it seems more likely there is only one pair of rinnegan and not a couple; there are a few clues to 'verify' so: Nagato never deactivated his eyes, furthermore Obito wanted to get the eyes back after his death... if those were indeed Nagato's he could had left them and used Madara's. i don't think Konan wanted to let anyone take Nagato's eyes, even if they were from the shinobi alliance. plus, it makes more sense that from a preexisting dojutsu a talented user can take it to the next level, rather than the rinnegan randomly sprouting in Nagato. on the other hand Kishi could say otherwise.

what does that mean about who is who? not sure. if we assume that becoming a so6p means to master the rinnegan, then I will give it to Madara and Nagato. Obito has pulled some impressive stunts but nothing near the level of Madara and Nagato.

>>> i hate retcons.

 

[Gooner4life]

Maybe Madara was a time traveller

 

[Simple Math]

madara managed to live long enough i guess..."shortly" couuld mean many things