Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

[Trollasaur]

Anybody ever thought Tobi is faking his old voice just like he faked being a good boy?

 

[Zathoros]

Obito is the Ramen guy.

 

[robert31393]

what if tobi was someone who doesnt know he is tobi himself.i mean like a split personality lol just like that movie called fight club starring brad pitt

 

[Disquiet]

I guess because that's where he got the Sharingan, not because he did anything necessarily special with it. I don't know really.



Well, I'll agree, he certainly got them after his battle with Hashirama. However, you must realize that Madara was talking ONLY to Kabuto during this time, and Kabuto had already guessed that Madara had obtained the Rinnegan. So there was no reason to lie and keep up the farce that he had survived the battle against Hashi, because Kabuto would have already guessed that. Kabuto showed that he knew about the possibility of Madara having the Rinnegan BEFORE Madara said he obtained them before his death, so there was no reason for him to keep up the lie with Kabuto. And knowing that, he could have easily told Kabuto "I got them after my battle with Hashirama", seeing as how that wouldn't surprise nor matter if he told Kabuto in the first place. But he didn't.

Now, lets say for some reason your right about him lying to Kabuto (even though I just proved that's highly unlikely), you must understand that his statement is not the riding point behind my argument. Take that point away from my argument, and it works almost as well, just with a little bump. We know that Nagato's eyes were Madara's old eyes. I doubt that Madara would have transplanted his Rinnegan into Nagato when he was still alive. I'll explain more of this later on...

Your Konan point I also agree with, in a sense. I believe that he spurred on the creation of Akatsuki, but then didn't lead it, instead stood a ways away in the shadows watching them. Then later, once he saw Nagato was growing in power, he moved in close and took control (as Madara). In that case, Konan wouldn't have known him until he "joined" Akatsuki.

And as to the case of Tobi having other techniques and her not planning for them, what says that she didn't? Simply there's the fact there there is no technique short of flying that would allow Tobi to escape her jutsu, especially because he would have to solidify to use any of them (including something that allows him to fly). So actually, her jutsu was a perfect preparation for any jutsu Tobi may or may not have had. There is no implication of him not having other jutsu.

Also, your reasoning as to why he would use only Obito's eye? I would guess because it was the most useful overall. It clearly has a fearsomely powerful and dangerous technique, maybe he just liked it the most.

The rest of your point is based off of the idea that Madara lived beyond giving the Rinnegan to Nagato, but as I'll explain, that's not the case.

What I guess you're saying is that Madara was the original Tobi, who gave Nagato the Rinnegan and who later trained Obito to become the new Tobi (in the scenario that Tobi is in fact Obito). But here's your snag. WHY would he give Nagato the Rinnegan? I explained earlier, if he did in fact survive for a while after obtaining the Rinnegan, why would he remove his, and replace his eye with another? It doesn't make sense. But this scan explains why Nagato was given the Rinnegan (most likely)

Spoiler

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Here, it pretty much expressively shows that Madara EXPECTED to be revived by Nagato. Which means the Rinnegan was given to Nagato with the express purpose to be used later to revive Madara. Now, Madara while alive would have kept his Rinnegan with him, why give it away before he dies? This would mean that he would only give it to Nagato before he died. Which means everything still fits MY reasoning, where Nagato's birth coincides with Madara's death. That's all that really matters to my point.

There's also the obvious point that if Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan, how would he have done it while fully blind! Similarly, how would he have implanted new eyes into himself after implanting his into Nagato. He obviously had someone else do it for him. And who else but...Tobi? And thus we have another reason as to why Tobi has to have been working WITH Madara, rather than BEING Madara.

I actually believe that he obtained them during the fight with Hashirama. And you say that there was no longer any need to pretend, however, Madara still did considering he only said "I got them shortly before my death". Just be cause Kabuto knows he has the rinnegan, why would Madara go and assume he knows everything? Even if Madara suspected he may know more, surely he wouldn't just come out and tell him.

Kabuto only said, "What I suspected, what awaits when you progress beyond the sharingan, is the rinnegan."


Then, in the next chapter, after Madara did a few techniques. He basically asks Kabuto how much he knows him. Kabuto then makes it known that he knows he didn't die during that battle. This alone proves that no assumptions was made toward Madara living after the valley of the end on Madara's part, despite Kabuto knowing he has the rinnegan.

Spoiler

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So, "I awakened these eyes shortly before my death" was meant for Kabuto to take it as "I awakened these eyes at the valley of the end."

But, Kabuto makes it known that he knows he lived after the valley of the end. What does this mean? It makes the statement "I awakened these eyes shortly before my death." inconclusive...

Although it could mean he awakened them during Nagato's generation, it could also very easily mean he did indeed awaken them at the valley of the end, or even mean he neither awakened them neither at the valley of the end, or "shortly before his death", just sometime after his battle, and just told Kabuto that to close the case; not wanting to assume he knew more, that is, living after the fight.


In fact, looking at that page, Madara seems interested in the fact that Kabuto knew he lived afterwards, and also gained a portion of Hashi's strength, which is funny since they are blessed with long lives lol. And then there's the way Kabuto is speaking..

"I think I'm right that after your battle with the shodai hokage at the valley of the end...you didn't die, did you? At that point in time....despite losing to Hashirama, you gained a portion of Hashirama's strength."

Now as to why I have that part in bold. Let's say I'm talking about an unknown survivor of plane crash. I say, "You didn't die during that crash, did you? You escaped to a nearby island." Or something like that, plenty of other situations could be made, just trying to make a point. And that point is..that Kabuto seems to be relating the two, his living afterwards with his gaining a portion of Hashi's strength. He tells him knows he survived it, but then tells him he knows how. And it actually fits considering we know the senju have long lives, it fits perfectly...

Just as a reminder, Madara didn't know Kabuto knew any of this when he made that statement.


When taking all of this into consideration, that statement by Madara is completely thrown out.



And your right, he could have stayed in the shadows, but by saying this, you're also admitting that there's no proof out there that he was around at all,before he got that eye. And by admitting there's no proof, there's room for Obito theories.


Yes, but you also seem to be forgetting her other statement. "I know exactly how your dimensional transfer works." When put together, "I wasn't just sitting idly by your side the whole time, I know exactly how your dimensional transfer works." It was the only thing she was expecting of Tobi, this was after all before that attack your talking about. Tobi could have very well used another technique before she did hers (During the skirmishes), but he didn't, and she seemed to be sure he wouldn't. And I strongly disagree that there's no implication of him not having other jutsu, it is greatly implied, I would say even purposely by the writer himself.


Tobi has another eye socket, he could use another MS in that eye.


And I see why it doesn't make sense to you, at least partly. You assume that he physically gave Nagato his eyes. That's not necessarily the case at all, Itachi transferred some of his powers over to Sasuke and still had his eyes and all it powers, obviously because Sasuke underwent the operation to have them transplanted. Another case is, Itachi gave a crow his eye. I find it unlikely that he did a transplant on the bird. -_- My point is, it is nothing but assumption that the eyes were transplanted, any explanations couldn't provide solid proof that Madara transplanted them into Nagato. Which again leaves holes for more theories. Now as why, well he obviously knew he was going to die sometime, so giving them to Nagato would have been the smart decision, since he wanted to be revived later.



And, to your last point. Let's not forget about Zetsu, he could have been around during Madara's time as well.



In the end, there's no way to provide ultimate proof that Tobi isn't Obito.



_________________________________________________________________________

My final opinion (Bases on things I have discovered from this debate). It is Obito Uchiha with Madara's conscious and knowledge.

 

[Muwahaha]

I actually believe that he obtained them during the fight with Hashirama. And you say that there was no longer any need to pretend, however, Madara still did considering he only said "I got them shortly before my death". Just be cause Kabuto knows he has the rinnegan, why would Madara go and assume he knows everything? Even if Madara suspected he may know more, surely he wouldn't just come out and tell him.

Kabuto only said, "What I suspected, what awaits when you progress beyond the sharingan, is the rinnegan."


Then, in the next chapter, after Madara did a few techniques. He basically asks Kabuto how much he knows him. Kabuto then makes it known that he knows he didn't die during that battle. This alone proves that no assumptions was made toward Madara living after the valley of the end on Madara's part, despite Kabuto knowing he has the rinnegan.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

So, "I awakened these eyes shortly before my death" was meant for Kabuto to take it as "I awakened these eyes at the valley of the end."

But, Kabuto makes it known that he knows he lived after the valley of the end. What does this mean? It makes the statement "I awakened these eyes shortly before my death." inconclusive...

Although it could mean he awakened them during Nagato's generation, it could also very easily mean he did indeed awaken them at the valley of the end, or even mean he neither awakened them neither at the valley of the end, or "shortly before his death", just sometime after his battle, and just told Kabuto that to close the case; not wanting to assume he knew more, that is, living after the fight.


In fact, looking at that page, Madara seems interested in the fact that Kabuto knew he lived afterwards, and also gained a portion of Hashi's strength, which is funny since they are blessed with long lives lol. And then there's the way Kabuto is speaking..

"I think I'm right that after your battle with the shodai hokage at the valley of the end...you didn't die, did you? At that point in time....despite losing to Hashirama, you gained a portion of Hashirama's strength."

Now as to why I have that part in bold. Let's say I'm talking about an unknown survivor of plane crash. I say, "You didn't die during that crash, did you? You escaped to a nearby island." Or something like that, plenty of other situations could be made, just trying to make a point. And that point is..that Kabuto seems to be relating the two, his living afterwards with his gaining a portion of Hashi's strength. He tells him knows he survived it, but then tells him he knows how. And it actually fits considering we know the senju have long lives, it fits perfectly...

Just as a reminder, Madara didn't know Kabuto knew any of this when he made that statement.


When taking all of this into consideration, that statement by Madara is completely thrown out.



And your right, he could have stayed in the shadows, but by saying this, you're also admitting that there's no proof out there that he was around at all,before he got that eye. And by admitting there's no proof, there's room for Obito theories.


Yes, but you also seem to be forgetting her other statement. "I know exactly how your dimensional transfer works." When put together, "I wasn't just sitting idly by your side the whole time, I know exactly how your dimensional transfer works." It was the only thing she was expecting of Tobi, this was after all before that attack your talking about. Tobi could have very well used another technique before she did hers (During the skirmishes), but he didn't, and she seemed to be sure he wouldn't. And I strongly disagree that there's no implication of him not having other jutsu, it is greatly implied, I would say even purposely by the writer himself.


Tobi has another eye socket, he could use another MS in that eye.


And I see why it doesn't make sense to you, at least partly. You assume that he physically gave Nagato his eyes. That's not necessarily the case at all, Itachi transferred some of his powers over to Sasuke and still had his eyes and all it powers, obviously because Sasuke underwent the operation to have them transplanted. Another case is, Itachi gave a crow his eye. I find it unlikely that he did a transplant on the bird. -_- My point is, it is nothing but assumption that the eyes were transplanted, any explanations couldn't provide solid proof that Madara transplanted them into Nagato. Which again leaves holes for more theories. Now as why, well he obviously knew he was going to die sometime, so giving them to Nagato would have been the smart decision, since he wanted to be revived later.



And, to your last point. Let's not forget about Zetsu, he could have been around during Madara's time as well.



In the end, there's no way to provide ultimate proof that Tobi isn't Obito.



_________________________________________________________________________

My final opinion (Bases on things I have discovered from this debate). It is Obito Uchiha with Madara's conscious and knowledge.

That's interesting, Madara giving Obito all of his memories and knowledge with a genjutsu ( like Itachi did to Sasuke.)

At that point ya'd have a young Obito with more memories of Madara than his own. Goofy/serious - Obito/Madara?

Add zetsu/hashi dna and he can control the Kyuubi with ease?
Half of his face messed up due to rocks, making it look wrinkly..

Idc, i just want to know the story behind Tobi.

 

[LeafSpirit 20]

If tobi is not obito, at least that is obitos body.. Someone could be controlling his body, no edo tensei

 

[Anju Ratti]

Maybe It's Naruto or Kakashi from Future:shrug:
Nah.. Just kidding

 

[Sareus1217]

My thoughts are split on who Tobi is, just like the majority, I'm thinking he's Izuna. At first I'm with the crowd that it's too far fetched to assume Tobi=Obito.
But, considering the recent developments of the plot I'm afraid I'm leaning towards Tobi as being Obito. Anyway, I won't post about my thoughts on Izuna=Tobi because it's almost the same as everyone else's(those who believe Tobi=Izuna).

Moving on, what I would like to share are my thoughts about Tobi being Obito.

If Tobi is Obito (i'm not yet 100% convinced,note: this isn't a complete explanation on how tobi=obito just a thought):

I think the reason Tobi became how and what he is right now has something to do about a character that has been overlooked and neglected by many but holds great importance to Obito and Kakasahi. That's right I'm talking about Rin. As we all know she died but unfortunately the reason and events behind her death are still in the Kishi's locker, it's still unknown, a mystery. I believe Kishi meant it this way because the story of her death holds the explanation why Tobi turned into a madman. First we all know that Obito loves Rin now let me direct you to that eventful day when Obito was stucked under boulders of rocks, He decided to give kakashi his right eye as a gift then he made a request a 'WISH' for Kakashi to take care of Rin. Kakashi took it by the heart and decided that he would be Rin's protector even stating that he(kakashi) would sacrifice his own life just to save Rin if ever it needs to come to that. BUT we all know that Kakashi failed 'cause Rin died for some unknown reason.

Now, another thing that struck me was Tobi's line in the latest chapter(597) wherein he said to Kakashi: "You've seen reality, you should be able to understand...No 'WISH' can become true in this world" He really sounded like a really bitter person to me, like he is carrying something heavy inside.

I think those lines about a WISH implies something deeper. Maybe Obito during his recovering and brain conditioning years with Madara covertly witnessed Rin's death and Kakashi's short coming of protecting her. This convinced him to totally go with Madara's plan as the only solution for the shortcomings of the shinobi world. Furthermore Tobi also said in chapter 597 that he 'wants to make a world where HEROES don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves' now we all know that this is a pun to the failure of Kakashi 'the Hero of the Sharingan' to fulfill a dying Obito's sole WISH>>>There was a flashback scene showing Kakashi standing before a grave.

As we all know, my thoughts are interpreted from translated materials so I'm really not sure if the wordings were correct from the original Japanese meanings, but hey based on what i read these are my thoughts.

Anyway, thank you for reading. What's your take?

 

[Dutcheries]

(Little bit of prediction)

I was thinking about what Madara said to the Kages. That his enjoyment was ruined and that he might as well go get the kubi. After that the Manga switched to Tobi vs Naruto etc. (maybe as a hint it switched pointing out that there is a 2nd reason why he wants to join the battle)

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Its all leading to the point where Madara is the one who will reveal Tobi's identity to us. Or at least will be a big roll in revealing.

And because he is full aware of Tobi, and besides the fact that he wants to get the Kubi he also wants to discuss some things with tobi. (What it is I can only guess, maybe something why Tobi is getting things not done exactly the way it suppose to be)

I think its all leading to the point where Madara is the one who will reveal Tobi's identity and not Naruto or Kakashi.

Who willl it be?
What do you guys think how it will go down?

 

[Hatake ashirama]

Is Tobi Obito? Who is he?

i need help tou guys. is tobi obito? this whole kamui intangibility thing is confusing. if he is not, how did he get his sharingan (which is possibly obito's ) and who is he?

 

[Sasuke Ninja Way Reborn]

Re: Is Tobi Obito? Who is he?

Tobi is Obito

 

[-S-]

Re: Is Tobi Obito? Who is he?

Tobi is tobito, and Obito is Obitobi.

I have no idea what I'm saying.

 

[asad70ful]

Re: Is Tobi Obito? Who is he?

2 words
fuk ya
and 3 more words
use search bar

 

[lol99]

Re: Is Tobi Obito? Who is he?

no one can help you U_U

 

[Ciberr]

Re: Is Tobi Obito? Who is he?

Welcome to naruto base !

 

[נıм]

Re: Is Tobi Obito? Who is he?

Tobi is a guy, who has a Dog called Sasuke, who does everything for Tobi, everything..

 

[lswhyte123]

Re: Is Tobi Obito? Who is he?

It is possible but I think he just has Obito's other eye. That being said, Tobi seems very familiar with Kakashi. He also seems to have observed him as Kakashi visits the grave.

 

[Sasuke Ninja Way Reborn]

Re: Is Tobi Obito? Who is he?

Tobi is a guy, who has a Dog called Sasuke, who does everything for Tobi, everything..

I see we got the joker here.

 

[Tsuki]

Re: Is Tobi Obito? Who is he?

The answer will be given... within the next few weeks

 

[AmaniPaz]

Re: Is Tobi Obito? Who is he?

Nobody knows but Kishi bro.