Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions
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~WastelandSociety~
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Have you read the Manga? Kakashi already made the connection that his eye and Tobi are the same. And the only way that is possible is if Tobi obtained Obito eye or he is Obito. Kakashi was about to say his real name "You're",but Tobi stopped him.
Will then ,maybe Tobi wasn't the one who gave the rinn to Nagato. After all he was lying about being Madara. Zetsu was probably around the 2nd
and 3rd war. Seeing Tobi repairs himself that looks like it came from Zetsu,so he could have told Tobi.
Well all we know it have to be someone that Kakashi knows. Before I would think Tobi is Izuna but I doubt he met him.
The "You're.." comment doesn't really mean that kakashi acctually knows Tobi's identity, if he did, it'd be kinda anti-climatic in chapter 600 if kakashi is like, "oh its Obito lawl
".Tobi's mask is gonna fall off cracked all dramatic style...and then plot twist.
Imo.
NarutoBoss
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FizzyDrink
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This would almost, ALMOST work if it weren't for the fact that Madara died shortly after unlocking the Rinnegan. That tears apart your whole theory, because Madara is then dead, and Obito is either not born yet, or so young that he's still in diapers.Okay, I will create a Obito STORY for you guys and see if this fits for a motive.
In regards to Obito being crushed by the rock.
At this point we know Obito unlocks his sharingan. Tobi is able to phase in and out of objects (by moving parts of himself to another dimension) only possessing the sharingan, its not an MS technique. You never see his eye change to MS when he does this.
Enters Obito, Rin, kakashi and the boulder: Obito can not feel the right side of his body as he lies under rock, at this point he is unaware of his sharingans abilities and he subconciously sent that part of his body to the other dimension to protect himself. He cant feel the right side of his body because it isnt there anymore and this happens to be part of the ability to sustain his life while dodging "attacks". The last thing he asks of Kakashi is to protect Rin from now on. Rin and Kakashi leave and Obito lies there for a day before he realizes he's not dying yet. It doesnt make sense. He tries to stand up and realizes his body phases right through the boulder!!!!.
At this point he decides not to go back to Konoha as he knows the person he loves, loves Kakashi and he doesnt want to get in the way, I mean why not, right? They think he's dead and it might be better off that way for Rin to move on so he feels in his heart, but he continues to watch from afar. he continues to master his ninjitsu ability, mainly his sharingan.
In regards to the comment about Kakashi standing in front of the grave from Tobi.
Fast forward to the Ninja war, the battle place is the bridge. Kakashi and Rin are stopping the invading Ninja army at the bridge, Obito does not participate in this war but is still watching after his true love, Rin. A tactic by the invading Ninja army is used to decieve Kakashi and launch an incoming fatal assault to Rin. Obito sees this attack all too clearly and is confindent that Kakashi also sees it coming and decides not to interfere. He was wrong. He sees Rin ran through and killed right before him. Kakashi is in a state of shock followed by a state of Rage!!!
Kakashi goes on a vengeful assault, basically holding off the invading ninja army by himself.
In the meantime, Obito goes through a mental breakdown. He starts wondering what if would the outcome have been if he interfered and revealed that he was alive to Rin. That she would have been happy to see him and glad he saved her. He starts to grow alot of resentment and anger to Kakashi, to the leaf for that fact for not reinforcing this obvious weakness in the bridge. He feels in his heart by letting Rin die, he in fact killed her himself...
In regards to the comment made by Kakashi and Tobi with reference to the Battle at the Bridge
He unlocks his MS ability. He unknowingling transports himself to the other dimension and reappears back on the other side of the bridge behind enemy lines while kakashi hold them off. In his own fit of rage, Obito slays each and every ninja that he comes across. It is literally a one sided fight and every attack passes through him without harming him, he ends up transporting a small group of the ninjas to the alternate reality where he fights them on his own turf. The leader of the invading army and kakashi both witness this. Fear is struck into the invading ninja army as they havent a clue where their commrades went. This technique was the first of its kind witnessed in such a massive exodus of ninja into the void.
From Kakashi's perspective he saw an unknown fighter battling multiple ninja and witnessed adept skills in dodging on going attacks as if they passed right through him, from his perspective and the location he was, he could only see shadow fighting. When he was done his the small force at the bridge he moved forward to see who his "ally" was but he only found some bodies. Obito had already phased back out of the fight and back to the shadows. Kakashi at this point has no idea who it was and decides to keep it a secret. Kakashi becomes the Hero of the leaf. At this point Obito decides he is going to get back at the Leaf, for letting "her die". This includes all members of the leaf including uchiha, whom he never really had a care for since they didnt look at him as an Uchiha.
In regards to, "How did Nagato get the Rinnegan?!?!? Obito was too young to be the giver of the eyes."
During this time period Obito meets another with the same ideals. This other character happens to be in possession of a Sharingan as well, he was older Uchiha whom captured the Hidden mists kage and provided Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato during the war back in the day. This man wore a mask (white mask much like Leaf special unit but with one eye hole) and told him of a small group he needs him to become involved with. The masked man already has some involvement with this group, the Akatski. As he was the one who originally forced its developement from the shadows. In order for Obito to enter into the Atkatski and pull it off as replacing the masked mans involvement (at this point names were not shared between the masked man and Nagato's group). Why does the mask man need his help? well because he's getting really old, he is in fact Madara Uchiha whom everyone thought had died during the battle with hashirama. Obito is suppose to carry on the character of the masked man while carrying out Madara's plan (to revive Madara in the near future). At this point Obito knows about the Rinnegan and its abilities.
Tobi is born and the Akatski is manipulated from within. Ideals become twisted to follow Tobi's plan. Knowing how important information is, Tobi changes his character and role in the Akatski so some enemies never catch on to who he is and what he is, a.k.a Orochimaru who's looking to get a hold of a Sharingan. Last thing Tobi wants is to become a target from another treacherous Akatski member. As Tobi's ability is unheard of in the Ninja world, Tobi enters the Leaf village and overhears a rumor in the Uchiha that their maybe a Coup de Tat to take over the Leaf. This is golden information. He goes ahead and "accidentally reveals" the plan to leaf ninja either within the village or out in the field and then he watches... You know the rest.
This is what I feel might be a good reason why Obito CAN be Tobi. There it is, an Obito Theory that isnt short, and shares enough reasons and ideas to possibly make it stick
So if Madara gave his eyes to Nagato, what did he control the mist kage with???
Madara was a collector of the sharingans at the time, he had already had his eyes transplanted in order to give the Rinnegan to Nagato. The collection continues when Obito Tobi collects the assortment from other various uchiha including the Uchiha massacre. Im sure some of the Uchiha had their sharingan out in full flare, not all were killed in their sleep.
What about Zetsu? I havent a clue. lol. He's more unknown than Tobi is at this point. He seems to be a henchman for "the Tobi's / masked men". Its possible that he was even around since Madara.
We will save ideas about Zetsu for the Zetsu Theories Threads. This is an Obito Theory Thread.
Of course madara did die, could be from natural causes, or his old battle wounds. He was weakened after his fight Im sure.
Nice try though, this is the best attempted Tobito theory I've ever seen.
KidGamer65
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LeafSpirit 20
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Yes that's why he was put in this battle in the first place for some emotional moments
I voted for the ramen guy named Teuchi.
I think it´s obvious that he is Tobi, especially
after the new information we gathered after last weeks chapter.
Here some important proofs:
See? He has an evil grin and as you see he always has his eyes closed!
For what reason? To hide his Sharingan! As you see he also rubbing his hands together...only villains do that.
Another fact: He is wearing a hat...so we dont see his Hair...but it looks like Tobis, just in brown. But it would be easy to change it for him.
So why does the ramen guy hate and know Kakashi so well?
Kishimoto gave us a hint in the Naruto Shippuden Movie 4 - The Lost Tower.
There the ramen guy opened his store. Kakshi was also waiting for ramen, but also said to Gai, Shizune and Asuma: How easy it is for you guys to be impressed by just ramen.
Then he just ran away with Minato for a mission.
After this sentence his fate was decided by Teuchi.
Kakashi can´t say to his ramen ...just ramen. He didn´t even try some of his ramen.
Teuchi lives in Konoha, it would be easy for him to observate Kakashi.
He followed him at the mission to the Kannabi bridge, there he stole the eye from Obitos body, so he could fight Kakashi later and fooling him by saying, he is Obito. He wants to destroy him from the inside.
Teuchi= Tobi
Both begin with a "T" and end with and "i". Coincidence?
I don´t think so.
Look carefully...you see where the idea of the basic form of Tobis mask
came? No? Look next to the eggs...then you know.
Some questions we can´t answer about Teuchi, what makes him more suspicious:
Where he was during the Uchiha massacre?
Where was he, when nine Tailed attacked the village?
We also can´t say, where he was, when Kakshi fought at the bridge?
Where was he all this time?
Did he work in the shop? ...I don´t think so.
Why he is always nice to Naruto?
I figured out, that he maybe be an Uzumaki.
But I think, there are already many proofs for Tobi being Teuchi, or also known just as the ramen guy.
I bet next week he will take of his mask and show us some of his Ramen-Jutsus.
Naruto wont beat him, thats for sure. Ramen is a huge weakspot from Naruto and seeing nice ramen guy Teuchi is Tobi, will ruin his life for sure.
Kishi thought well about his plot.
I think it´s obvious that he is Tobi, especially
after the new information we gathered after last weeks chapter.
Here some important proofs:
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See? He has an evil grin and as you see he always has his eyes closed!
For what reason? To hide his Sharingan! As you see he also rubbing his hands together...only villains do that.
Another fact: He is wearing a hat...so we dont see his Hair...but it looks like Tobis, just in brown. But it would be easy to change it for him.
So why does the ramen guy hate and know Kakashi so well?
Kishimoto gave us a hint in the Naruto Shippuden Movie 4 - The Lost Tower.
There the ramen guy opened his store. Kakshi was also waiting for ramen, but also said to Gai, Shizune and Asuma: How easy it is for you guys to be impressed by just ramen.
Then he just ran away with Minato for a mission.
After this sentence his fate was decided by Teuchi.
Kakashi can´t say to his ramen ...just ramen. He didn´t even try some of his ramen.
Teuchi lives in Konoha, it would be easy for him to observate Kakashi.
He followed him at the mission to the Kannabi bridge, there he stole the eye from Obitos body, so he could fight Kakashi later and fooling him by saying, he is Obito. He wants to destroy him from the inside.
Teuchi= Tobi
Both begin with a "T" and end with and "i". Coincidence?
I don´t think so.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Look carefully...you see where the idea of the basic form of Tobis mask
came? No? Look next to the eggs...then you know.
Some questions we can´t answer about Teuchi, what makes him more suspicious:
Where he was during the Uchiha massacre?
Where was he, when nine Tailed attacked the village?
We also can´t say, where he was, when Kakshi fought at the bridge?
Where was he all this time?
Did he work in the shop? ...I don´t think so.
Why he is always nice to Naruto?
I figured out, that he maybe be an Uzumaki.
But I think, there are already many proofs for Tobi being Teuchi, or also known just as the ramen guy.
I bet next week he will take of his mask and show us some of his Ramen-Jutsus.
Naruto wont beat him, thats for sure. Ramen is a huge weakspot from Naruto and seeing nice ramen guy Teuchi is Tobi, will ruin his life for sure.
Kishi thought well about his plot.
FizzyDrink
Active member
Could Tobi not be a combination of Izuna and Obito? So far we have seen a variety of ways to extend life in Akatsuki. Could the purpose of it have been for Tobi to extend his life? Perhaps he has taken Orochimaru's body switch and used it on Obito after losing his eye. This would explain why Tobi calls himself Madara, because he is Izuna and shares the same blood as him and thus currently shares his power by having gained the rinnegan and seemingly also Hashirama's chakra through Zetsu.
Thus far it seems Orochimaru's research connects much of Tobi's actions. Thus I don't see why it can't be a complicated combination of all of our theories.
Thus far it seems Orochimaru's research connects much of Tobi's actions. Thus I don't see why it can't be a complicated combination of all of our theories.
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Look at this list. Let's do a criteria list
* Similar face
Obito, Izuna, Madara, Kagami, Setsuna, Sasuke
* Matching hair
Obito, Izuna, Madara, Kagami, Sasuke
* Matching age
Izuna, Madara, Kagami
* Not seen in an edo tensei coffin
Izuna, Kagami
* Not seen dead.. at all
Kagami
From what we have to choose from I just feel Kagami is the best choice atm because there is no factual flaw in the theory. If there is, please say what it is.
Now this doesn't mean it must be Kagami. Izuna's death could have been faked, Tobi could have manipulated his appearance just to look like Madara, etc etc. But just judging by what we currently have I say Kagami is still the best candidate (Out of known characters).
FizzyDrink
Active member
Well, that's if you base it off that criteria. But you forgot the "important to the plot" criteria, in which Kagami is the first one to go.
Izuna as well wasn't seen in an Edo coffin, we saw a body in a coffin. It could have been Izuna's. However, remember that we saw that when TOBI was talking about Izuna. If Tobi were Izuna, he could have easily been hiding his true identity by saying he died. A fake Zetsu clone is another possibility, similar to Kisame's death.
Knowing that, Izuna actually fits your criteria a lot more, because it is easier to explain why someone important to the plot didn't actually die. It's a lot harder to explain how someone who is a nobody and not important to the plot at all fits into everything that Tobi has done without having been mentioned once in the entire manga by any ninja.
It doesn't matter how important to the plot the man behind the mask is imo. Fact is, Tobi's done alot and is part of the plot whoever is behind the mask. It's just that we don't know who it is.
Possible, not denying it
To me Tobi really seems like a "no one" as opposed to someone important to the plot. He's just a smart guy with a plan, doesn't really matter who he is. He's still Tobi. The same guy who invaded Konoha, started the fourth war, gave Nagato the Rinnegan, manipulated Yagura, etc.
I see the reasons why he could be Izuna though. It's not a bad theory
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Darn it, was working on my counter to this reply, but now have to go. It was such a good one too. -.-
Will finish it when I come back, oh can anyone tell me what world war was it when Kisame met Madara/Tobi, it's what I was looking for just a while ago, thanks.
By the way, I thought about something regarding Tobi. When Danzo blew himself up, Tobi escaped by what seemed like floating down below the ground. Is this a plothole? Did Kishi decide first that Tobi became like a ghost and later that he ports away parts of himself, I wonder. Why would he port away parts of himself so that it looked like he was disappearing into the ground? Well, even if it is a plothole it's no biggie, still I had to mention this after rewatching Danzo vs Sasuke
I feel the same way cause in manga chapter 404, tobi meets kisame. He mentions how he regrets not revealing himself to kisame, when kisame was close to someone. I think this someone was the masked guy with long hair who controlled mizukage and met itachi. Even though kisame mentions tobi as mizukage he never says directly your the long haired masked guy or same person i met years ago. He just says uh your tobi. So tobi is two different people and kisame calls him mizukage maybe cause this tobi was also a mizukage or masked guy successor.
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Must have been 3rd. Kisame was quite young when he diedDarn it, was working on my counter to this reply, but now have to go. It was such a good one too. -.-
Will finish it when I come back, oh can anyone tell me what world war was it when Kisame met Madara/Tobi, it's what I was looking for just a while ago, thanks.
I actually realized how much the quote "I got it at the battle of the Kannabi bridge entails.
Anyway, my reply to FizzyDrink (Will include what I'm talking about).
Well Madara couldn't HAVE SAID ANYTHING ELSE other than "I unlocked my rinnegan shortly before I died." This is because he already went through a great deal of trouble of tricking the world into believing he died at the battle with Hashirama. If he said anything like, "I unlocked them sometime during my life." Anyone would have become suspicious as to why he never used them against Hashirama, since the power of the rinnegan is known and feared and is certainly enough to be a deciding factor. From there may Kabuto may have even questioned when did he exactly die. Again, if Kabuto hadn't known the truth, he would have assumed that Madara unlocked them before his last fight with Hashirama, correct? And this is what Madara wanted.
"I unlocked them shortly before my death" was the most safe and simple answer he could have given. What else could ha have said knowing that the world believed he died that day, and prior to that, was never known to have rinnegan?
And the rest of your point is based on the assumption that "I unlocked them shortly before my death" means he unlocked them sometime around Nagato's era and then died, and not paying attention that it's actually ambiguous considering he assumed Kabuto believed (Along with the rest of the world) he died at the valley of the end. It also doesn't even make sense really considering Madara's plan to have unlocked them shortly before he died, meaning he was very close to failing, because he wasn't intelligent/skilled enough to do awaken them way before, And this is Madara we are talking about. But meh; I guess it's possible...
Now, onto the more interesting part. Because some of it will clash with this timeline. This is especially for those who thinks "logically".
We know now that Tobi (whoever you may believe he is) obtained his eye at the battle of the kannabi bridge.
So now let me show you this statement from Konan:
She says, "I wasn't just sitting idly by your side the whole time." This can mean that Tobi never came into the picture with the Akaktsui until after the battle of the kannabi bridge. But..it could also mean he's been there, but never displayed no techs at all, if he did; Konan wouldn't have been so confident that he didn't have another trick up his sleeve. I mean even if she saw it years ago, she seems smart enough that it doesn't mean he no longer has that ability, this is logical, correct?
So now for the sake of argument, let's say Tobi was around Nagato/Konan even before he obtained Obito's eye. He is hanging around a RINNEGAN USER and also Konan, without ever having to show any of his powers or prove himself. I mean during the meeting with Kisame, Yagura, who was a jinchuuriki was being controlled, he was obviously no ordinary Uchiha. Then he formed the akatsui; all S-class criminals, and thus tricked the world into believing he is Madara. Surely Nagato wasn't just gonna let some masked guy with a sharingan come and take control so easily. -.-
Even if he did show some type of powerful genjutsu as a demonstration, how come Konan fought as if he didn't even have genjutsu, especially if it was used to get in? This implies that even though Uchiha is known for genjutsu among other things, she never saw anything notable from him; that required her to take great caution against. And so, such a mediocre Uchiha would never be able to take lead of Nagato and Konan. o.o
Now look at this statement. In the same conext he's speaking about "giving Nagato the rinnegan", which most believe Madara gave to him, and I agree. He says "he spurred Yahiko to form the akakstui". Why would it be so hard to believe that Madara was the one who did this? So far, the things Tobi have spoke about Madara when claiming to be him, have been true; Madara did them, Why not this?
And you know what this means, Madara could have very well lived a while after meeting Nagato.
Now, onto something else. Kishi is actually giving us lots of clues, we know that Tobi collects sharingans, now we know that he obtained his eye about the same time as Kakashis. Sooo...he gets Obito's eye, 5-6 years later, he knows how to use it effectively. He help kills the uchiha clan, about 8 years later, doesn't know how to use even one of them? lol. Surely he wouldn't hesitate to use extra MS's if he could. So he's only been shown to use the MS of Obito's eye, why?
So now, if you think the timeline puts Obito too far away for Madara, you leave all these holes open. And actually, the correct timeline puts Obito and Madara really close actually.
Going by that timeline, Nagato is only about 9-10 years older than Kakashi and Obito. Nagato appears to be in his teens during the founding of Akaktsui, so let's say 16-20. This would make Obito around 6-10 around the time Akaktsui was formed (Which was during the 3rd war actually), Obito wasn't yet dead, which would mean Tobi was leading Akaktsui for around 6-7 years before getting that eye, and never even used his power he had at that time. (Or Konan wouldn't have fought the way she did)...
I have to go now. Anyways, that's my input, a bit rushed, but meh. ^^
Anyway, my reply to FizzyDrink (Will include what I'm talking about).
Well Madara couldn't HAVE SAID ANYTHING ELSE other than "I unlocked my rinnegan shortly before I died." This is because he already went through a great deal of trouble of tricking the world into believing he died at the battle with Hashirama. If he said anything like, "I unlocked them sometime during my life." Anyone would have become suspicious as to why he never used them against Hashirama, since the power of the rinnegan is known and feared and is certainly enough to be a deciding factor. From there may Kabuto may have even questioned when did he exactly die. Again, if Kabuto hadn't known the truth, he would have assumed that Madara unlocked them before his last fight with Hashirama, correct? And this is what Madara wanted.
"I unlocked them shortly before my death" was the most safe and simple answer he could have given. What else could ha have said knowing that the world believed he died that day, and prior to that, was never known to have rinnegan?
And the rest of your point is based on the assumption that "I unlocked them shortly before my death" means he unlocked them sometime around Nagato's era and then died, and not paying attention that it's actually ambiguous considering he assumed Kabuto believed (Along with the rest of the world) he died at the valley of the end. It also doesn't even make sense really considering Madara's plan to have unlocked them shortly before he died, meaning he was very close to failing, because he wasn't intelligent/skilled enough to do awaken them way before, And this is Madara we are talking about. But meh; I guess it's possible...
Now, onto the more interesting part. Because some of it will clash with this timeline. This is especially for those who thinks "logically".
We know now that Tobi (whoever you may believe he is) obtained his eye at the battle of the kannabi bridge.
So now let me show you this statement from Konan:
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She says, "I wasn't just sitting idly by your side the whole time." This can mean that Tobi never came into the picture with the Akaktsui until after the battle of the kannabi bridge. But..it could also mean he's been there, but never displayed no techs at all, if he did; Konan wouldn't have been so confident that he didn't have another trick up his sleeve. I mean even if she saw it years ago, she seems smart enough that it doesn't mean he no longer has that ability, this is logical, correct?
So now for the sake of argument, let's say Tobi was around Nagato/Konan even before he obtained Obito's eye. He is hanging around a RINNEGAN USER and also Konan, without ever having to show any of his powers or prove himself. I mean during the meeting with Kisame, Yagura, who was a jinchuuriki was being controlled, he was obviously no ordinary Uchiha. Then he formed the akatsui; all S-class criminals, and thus tricked the world into believing he is Madara. Surely Nagato wasn't just gonna let some masked guy with a sharingan come and take control so easily. -.-
Even if he did show some type of powerful genjutsu as a demonstration, how come Konan fought as if he didn't even have genjutsu, especially if it was used to get in? This implies that even though Uchiha is known for genjutsu among other things, she never saw anything notable from him; that required her to take great caution against. And so, such a mediocre Uchiha would never be able to take lead of Nagato and Konan. o.o
Now look at this statement. In the same conext he's speaking about "giving Nagato the rinnegan", which most believe Madara gave to him, and I agree. He says "he spurred Yahiko to form the akakstui". Why would it be so hard to believe that Madara was the one who did this? So far, the things Tobi have spoke about Madara when claiming to be him, have been true; Madara did them, Why not this?
And you know what this means, Madara could have very well lived a while after meeting Nagato.
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Now, onto something else. Kishi is actually giving us lots of clues, we know that Tobi collects sharingans, now we know that he obtained his eye about the same time as Kakashis. Sooo...he gets Obito's eye, 5-6 years later, he knows how to use it effectively. He help kills the uchiha clan, about 8 years later, doesn't know how to use even one of them? lol. Surely he wouldn't hesitate to use extra MS's if he could. So he's only been shown to use the MS of Obito's eye, why?
So now, if you think the timeline puts Obito too far away for Madara, you leave all these holes open. And actually, the correct timeline puts Obito and Madara really close actually.
Going by that timeline, Nagato is only about 9-10 years older than Kakashi and Obito. Nagato appears to be in his teens during the founding of Akaktsui, so let's say 16-20. This would make Obito around 6-10 around the time Akaktsui was formed (Which was during the 3rd war actually), Obito wasn't yet dead, which would mean Tobi was leading Akaktsui for around 6-7 years before getting that eye, and never even used his power he had at that time. (Or Konan wouldn't have fought the way she did)...
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I have to go now. Anyways, that's my input, a bit rushed, but meh. ^^
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