Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions
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Bloodytaste
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Its Obito...cuz, no one would be interested in Kakashi that much? I Mean who dafug does tobi care about Kakashi cryn on a grave of an " dead" Uchiha he got his "eye" from. Tobi says he got his eye at kanabi bridge thats true. He acticated it there! Even Gai and Kakashi already know who tobi is, but well we will see sooner or later.
As i said before, Madara did everthing, what tobi told us. He was never the one doing the plot. It was Madara and Madaras Plan is not the same as Tobis. Madara wont care much about Heros and Stuff, he is only after World Domination.
Obito in case was someone who was really " beliving" in Heros, but his Faith in them got crushed someway so he got, a negativ parralel to Naruto.
Naruto and Obito are very similar, as Tobi and Naruto are. I think that Obito turned into the way, that Naruto also could have turned if he would have chosen the wrong way.
Nobody fits in this Character Tobi, better then Obito right now.
Izuna, would as i said be just to ridiculous, why should an Uchiha care about such things as Heros, an belives, thats idiotic. He does not fit in there. Kagami is a possbility but, there are to less information about him.
But the Words
" i got it, in the fight at the kanabi bridge" are makin it clear.
He really got it there, while the fight. And the war was nearly over after Minato appeard there, so the time to get this eye under a boulder without knowing where exactly he lies, by an nearly " full crushed uchiha?" haha who would care about looking for an sharingan eye there.
xD
As i said before, Madara did everthing, what tobi told us. He was never the one doing the plot. It was Madara and Madaras Plan is not the same as Tobis. Madara wont care much about Heros and Stuff, he is only after World Domination.
Obito in case was someone who was really " beliving" in Heros, but his Faith in them got crushed someway so he got, a negativ parralel to Naruto.
Naruto and Obito are very similar, as Tobi and Naruto are. I think that Obito turned into the way, that Naruto also could have turned if he would have chosen the wrong way.
Nobody fits in this Character Tobi, better then Obito right now.
Izuna, would as i said be just to ridiculous, why should an Uchiha care about such things as Heros, an belives, thats idiotic. He does not fit in there. Kagami is a possbility but, there are to less information about him.
But the Words
" i got it, in the fight at the kanabi bridge" are makin it clear.
He really got it there, while the fight. And the war was nearly over after Minato appeard there, so the time to get this eye under a boulder without knowing where exactly he lies, by an nearly " full crushed uchiha?" haha who would care about looking for an sharingan eye there.
xD
Dark Strides
Member
Thought I would re-post this thread as the chapters are verifying more my theory. My first post and Tobi ID thread. 94 Thankyou's, you may wanna read..
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Bloodytaste
Member
read it, but tobi already says himself he got the sharingan at the Kanabi bridge 3 shinobi world war, so ur theory lacks, by reasoning. Why should Kagami took eyes from his son, while having his own ones? Or why should he bother about obito if they are not realated.
^^ U theory makes no sense any more, cuz, Kagami woudnt need this eyes.
And as u mentioned, maybe kishi is makin it obvious now, so we think about it wont be him cuz of surprise, but wont it be the bigger surprise to make it obito? U cant trust Kishi to 100%, hes a troll, if he wants to he will make it as obvious as he wants to and prove it to be anyone he likes to ~
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Gyakusetsu
Active member
Following chapter 597, there is only one possibility that could possibly know what Jiraiya and Minato entrusted to Naruto. Come on....
Unfortunately, it's looking to me like it's Obito. I'm looking at the carefully worded phrases of Tobi in the latest chapter. "Pitiful excuses in front of graves" is oddly personal. Also, "I told you not to open your mouth so easily. You're just words and no actions."
Clearly, throughout this series, Kakashi has definitely been a man of action. Taking care of Z and Haku twice, the seven swordsman, defending Naruto against Sasuke/Tobi/Zetsu, among other situations. How can Tobi make the claim that Kakashi is "Just words" ?
Going back to the Obito Chapters (starting at 239), Kakashi is continually insulting Obito prior to receiving the Sharingan. This is common knowledge, and brings nothing new to the table. However, given 597 pages of context, it's all becoming clear how deep this foreshadowing was.
"Obito, do you know Shinobi rule 25? A shinobi must never show his tears!"
"I don't want to say anything to you, the "Elite Uchiha""
Something the 4th said to Obito, "If you don't control your mouth, your mind will become weak."
Obito's dying wish was an acknowledgement that he wanted to spend time with everyone, just a little longer (his words, not mine.). This brings us to Tobi's latest quote, " You've seen reality, you should be able to understand. No wish can become true in this world. This is why I'm pursuing the dream of the Infinite Tsukuyomi. I want to build a world where heroes don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves."
Every single other foreshadowing has been pointing in this direction for hundreds of chapters, it isn't going to suddenly stop now unless Kishi is going to change his last name to Shyamalan.
Edit: As far as "Why hasn't Tobi's MS activated yet?"
Around chapter 400, Tobi explains to Sasuke that you need to be in close proximity to a loved one dying to awaken the MS. The only person Obito loved was Rin. It could be explained that , IF obito survived and learned of Rin's death, he closed off his heart to everyone, forever. It may come down to it no longer being possible for him to achieve the MS. To compensate, he will place everyone, including himself, into the Infinite Tsuk., to live the reality that they all wish they could have.
There's that "Wish" word again.
Clearly, throughout this series, Kakashi has definitely been a man of action. Taking care of Z and Haku twice, the seven swordsman, defending Naruto against Sasuke/Tobi/Zetsu, among other situations. How can Tobi make the claim that Kakashi is "Just words" ?
Going back to the Obito Chapters (starting at 239), Kakashi is continually insulting Obito prior to receiving the Sharingan. This is common knowledge, and brings nothing new to the table. However, given 597 pages of context, it's all becoming clear how deep this foreshadowing was.
"Obito, do you know Shinobi rule 25? A shinobi must never show his tears!"
"I don't want to say anything to you, the "Elite Uchiha""
Something the 4th said to Obito, "If you don't control your mouth, your mind will become weak."
Obito's dying wish was an acknowledgement that he wanted to spend time with everyone, just a little longer (his words, not mine.). This brings us to Tobi's latest quote, " You've seen reality, you should be able to understand. No wish can become true in this world. This is why I'm pursuing the dream of the Infinite Tsukuyomi. I want to build a world where heroes don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves."
Every single other foreshadowing has been pointing in this direction for hundreds of chapters, it isn't going to suddenly stop now unless Kishi is going to change his last name to Shyamalan.
Edit: As far as "Why hasn't Tobi's MS activated yet?"
Around chapter 400, Tobi explains to Sasuke that you need to be in close proximity to a loved one dying to awaken the MS. The only person Obito loved was Rin. It could be explained that , IF obito survived and learned of Rin's death, he closed off his heart to everyone, forever. It may come down to it no longer being possible for him to achieve the MS. To compensate, he will place everyone, including himself, into the Infinite Tsuk., to live the reality that they all wish they could have.
There's that "Wish" word again.
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Could Tobi possibly be Obito in some way shape or form? I have a theory that possibly one of the Uchihas such as Izuna, Kagami, Shisui, Madara have Possessed Obito or used a justu to transport there soul into anothers body, such as mind transfer justu. So maybe its obito's body but someone else is inside of him?
robert31393
Member
i dont think tobi is obito.i just think tobi is using obito's body.tobi and obito have completely 180 personalities. tobi is a genius who knows about everything and everyone and he is clever enough to manipulate anyone for his own selfish ways.obito was no genius,he was just someone who was very courageous and likes to protect his friends.there personalities are completely different and even if obito was to change in anyway,he wouldnt be that strong enough to control the nine tails even with madara training him.it took madara his whole life to control the nine tails and awaken his MS so what makes you think obito can do it in a few years from the time he died to when naruto was born.it just doesnt make sense.tobi could be someone who have been introduced to the story already,but havent been described thoroughly yet.for example, the elder son of the sage
Bloodytaste
Member
DarkPrincess
Member
I'm so confused right now. But I still don't think it's Obito. I always knew his sharingan would be Obitos though. How about when 'the masked man' showed himself to Kisame the first time? Wouldn't that have been ages before Obito? Also, when he fought Minato he said he's been waiting ages for his revenge; it had only been a couple of years so how could he build up that much hate, perfect his jutsu that much and learn to control the nine tails?
However, the things he said to Kakashi were very personal and maybe he got trained by Madara himself.
arghh confused
!
However, the things he said to Kakashi were very personal and maybe he got trained by Madara himself.
arghh confused
!
ShinobiAliance
Member
People are assuming to be Obito because of what he said to kakashi and because of the related jutsu kamui and the dimensions of the techniques and because he has his left eye covered assuming he didnt have a sharingan .... same eye obito gave to kakashi.... BUT obito didnt have reasons to go as far as creating a fourth shinobi war... he didnt have any hatred towards anyone.... and even if Tobi knows about how kakashi got the eye so what?... he knows lots of things other shinobi dont.. so i dont think it could be Obito...
On the other hand it could be Izuna... he is an uchiha like madara... he knew about what happened in the past... and because madara stole his eyes he could have built hatred just like sasuke did...though sasuke wanted to destroy konoha and Izuna's hate was probably bigger and he wants revenge on the whole world... trying to create world peace with doujutsu... its not probable either... because if the uchihas lose their eyes they supposely die...though it makes a little sense because now that madara has control of kabuto ressurecting jutsu.. someone will have to kill him... and why not Izuna/Tobi and madara confronting themselves?
From here on there are lots of possibilities though these two are the most reliable...
On the other hand it could be Izuna... he is an uchiha like madara... he knew about what happened in the past... and because madara stole his eyes he could have built hatred just like sasuke did...though sasuke wanted to destroy konoha and Izuna's hate was probably bigger and he wants revenge on the whole world... trying to create world peace with doujutsu... its not probable either... because if the uchihas lose their eyes they supposely die...though it makes a little sense because now that madara has control of kabuto ressurecting jutsu.. someone will have to kill him... and why not Izuna/Tobi and madara confronting themselves?
From here on there are lots of possibilities though these two are the most reliable...
RasenUchihaChaos
Active member
Posted this in a thread, but it probably belongs here instead.
First of all, Kishi is HEAVILY alluding to Tobi being Obito, not only in this chapter but in the past several chapters as well with the KakashixTobi interaction. This chapter confirmed (vaguely anyway) that Tobi obtained Obito's other eye at some point.
However, he still hasn't said flat out that he IS Obito. Assuming that he is not (for argument's sake), I believe after taking into consideration the dialogue from this chapter that he can be no other than...
You guessed it, Izuna. I know you're probably groaning and typing in right now to use the bloody search bar but please just hear me out and have a look at what I'm talking about. I'll try to focus mostly on this chapter's events.
Firstly, we know that the Sharingan Tobi has been flashing this entire time isn't his. While this may provide evidence for the boat that believes Tobi is NOT an Uchiha, I would argue that his ability to use his Sharingan (two when fighting Konan) constantly coupled with a Rinnegan and his deep knowledge of the Uchiha Clan and Madara make him so.
That aside, we also know that the Rinnegan he possesses was also obtained from another. Now how does this relate to Izuna?
Lookie! NO EYEBALLS.
A lot of people believe that since Izuna "died" according to Madara, there is no way that he could possibly be Tobi. This theory argues that at some point, using the RINNE TENSEI (the Rinnegan tech Nagato used to revive Kakashi, Shizune etc. after they had died) Madara revived his OWN BROTHER. And since his eyes were "given" (supposedly) before his death, he would have likely been revived with no eyes.
Note that Rinne Tensei works different than Edo Tensei, instead of the subject being revived in his "Prime", he/she is revived into their dead body as seen below.
So upon revival, Izuna needed eyes, hence Obito's eye, and the large collection of Sharingan Tobi is seen to possess, and Nagato's eye. One flaw that I can't explain is how Nagato came to posses Madara's eyes and why he didn't just give them to Izuna (possibly because you can't do a double-swap of eyes but meh...)
Anyway, back to the chapter's dialogue. A majority of the chapter is Tobi slandering Kakashi for being a hero of false words. Those that argue in favor of Obito would argue that he's talking about Rin (which he probably is) and how Kakashi apologized to Obito's grave often for probably not being able to protect her.
How does Tobi know this? My answer is he gets around as a huge stalker (which is how he knows Kakashi spends a lot of time in front of Obito's grave), or that through Obito's eye, he was able to somehow witness or see the events leading up to Obito's and Rin's death.
Now this next part is FUNDAMENTAL to this week's chapter.
Remember the Tobi-Sasuke conversation where Tobi spilled the beans on the Uchiha's past? Tobi claimed that Izuna GAVE Madara his eyes, but we all know that Tobi lied about the Nine-Tails being a natural disaster, could he have lied about this too?
My guess is yes. Itachi, (the Sherlock Holmes of Naruto...erm, or is that Kakashi :S) claimed that Izuna's eyes were TAKEN by Madara.
Now imagine that this was really the case, and picture how Izuna must have felt to have been robbed of all that power and glory from the one he trusted the most. Not only power, but his FUTURE as well. Sounds like the classical effed up past that turns someone into a villain, no? Now take this into consideration as we look at this week's chappy.
Tobi hounds Kakashi for false promises. Now think about Izuna and Madara's relationship. If he assume that Tobi IS NOT OBITO, then Tobi being Izuna here makes perfect sense. It's as if Tobi is comparing Kakashi to Madara
This is supported by Tobi's line "What someone like you says"
as if Tobi has encountered a hero of false promises before.. If it were Obito, wouldn't he have no one to compare Kakashi to? Wouldn't Kakashi be the object of his vengeance (for failing to save Rin) and no one else?
Furthermore, Madara and Izuna were raised on the notion that their power (the Mangekyo) would lead to great fame and power for the Uchiha back in the day. Izuna and his brother likely believed this without a doubt...until they discovered that the Mangekyo eventually loses it's light. Like I mentioned before, Izuna was robbed of his power and dreams when Madara took his eyes. Since Izuna probably didn't die right away, the reality of his treacherous brother and no hope for the future caused him to hate heroes of false promises. Madara likely promised Izuna that the two would conquer all clans and beat everyone with their amazing Mangekyo power. When Tobi says "reality is cruelly moving forward", he is likely referencing the torment he had to face once his eyes were plucked.
Moving on...
The line "I want to build a world where heroes don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves" automatically makes one think of Kakashi in front of Obito's grave. But imagine the excuses Madara must have said to Izuna both while he was alive and to his grave after his eyes were taken. He probably justified robbing Izuna of his future in the name of the clan and since he was the eldest, only he could take responsibility fr the clan's well-being. How would you feel if someone you loved stole your future and accomplishments from you in the name of a "greater cause"? Not only that, but Madara failed in the end to achieve Uchiha superiority So what did Izuna give his eyes for?
This last page sums it up nicely. Tobi questions Naruto about what will happen if he fails in his mission to bring peace to the ninja world. Izuna is the exact definition of "the hollow reality" Tobi is talking about on this page. Even after Madara failed, Izuna's hollow reality continued on without any hope. Think about what Izuna must have felt when/if he was revived by Madara and learned that his sacrifice was for nothing.
To Izuna, using hope as an excuse means nothing in a world where reality can be cruel, unfair and unforgiving.
Finally, this page proves essentially everything I was talking about.
If we assume that Izuna's eyes were indeed plucked, imagine how much emotional control it would take for Tobi to tell a straight lie like this. Notice how he clutches his arm!
First of all, Kishi is HEAVILY alluding to Tobi being Obito, not only in this chapter but in the past several chapters as well with the KakashixTobi interaction. This chapter confirmed (vaguely anyway) that Tobi obtained Obito's other eye at some point.
However, he still hasn't said flat out that he IS Obito. Assuming that he is not (for argument's sake), I believe after taking into consideration the dialogue from this chapter that he can be no other than...
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You guessed it, Izuna. I know you're probably groaning and typing in right now to use the bloody search bar but please just hear me out and have a look at what I'm talking about. I'll try to focus mostly on this chapter's events.
Firstly, we know that the Sharingan Tobi has been flashing this entire time isn't his. While this may provide evidence for the boat that believes Tobi is NOT an Uchiha, I would argue that his ability to use his Sharingan (two when fighting Konan) constantly coupled with a Rinnegan and his deep knowledge of the Uchiha Clan and Madara make him so.
That aside, we also know that the Rinnegan he possesses was also obtained from another. Now how does this relate to Izuna?
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Lookie! NO EYEBALLS.
A lot of people believe that since Izuna "died" according to Madara, there is no way that he could possibly be Tobi. This theory argues that at some point, using the RINNE TENSEI (the Rinnegan tech Nagato used to revive Kakashi, Shizune etc. after they had died) Madara revived his OWN BROTHER. And since his eyes were "given" (supposedly) before his death, he would have likely been revived with no eyes.
Note that Rinne Tensei works different than Edo Tensei, instead of the subject being revived in his "Prime", he/she is revived into their dead body as seen below.
You must be registered for see images
So upon revival, Izuna needed eyes, hence Obito's eye, and the large collection of Sharingan Tobi is seen to possess, and Nagato's eye. One flaw that I can't explain is how Nagato came to posses Madara's eyes and why he didn't just give them to Izuna (possibly because you can't do a double-swap of eyes but meh...)
Anyway, back to the chapter's dialogue. A majority of the chapter is Tobi slandering Kakashi for being a hero of false words. Those that argue in favor of Obito would argue that he's talking about Rin (which he probably is) and how Kakashi apologized to Obito's grave often for probably not being able to protect her.
How does Tobi know this? My answer is he gets around as a huge stalker (which is how he knows Kakashi spends a lot of time in front of Obito's grave), or that through Obito's eye, he was able to somehow witness or see the events leading up to Obito's and Rin's death.
Now this next part is FUNDAMENTAL to this week's chapter.
Remember the Tobi-Sasuke conversation where Tobi spilled the beans on the Uchiha's past? Tobi claimed that Izuna GAVE Madara his eyes, but we all know that Tobi lied about the Nine-Tails being a natural disaster, could he have lied about this too?
My guess is yes. Itachi, (the Sherlock Holmes of Naruto...erm, or is that Kakashi :S) claimed that Izuna's eyes were TAKEN by Madara.
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Now imagine that this was really the case, and picture how Izuna must have felt to have been robbed of all that power and glory from the one he trusted the most. Not only power, but his FUTURE as well. Sounds like the classical effed up past that turns someone into a villain, no? Now take this into consideration as we look at this week's chappy.
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Tobi hounds Kakashi for false promises. Now think about Izuna and Madara's relationship. If he assume that Tobi IS NOT OBITO, then Tobi being Izuna here makes perfect sense. It's as if Tobi is comparing Kakashi to Madara
This is supported by Tobi's line "What someone like you says"
as if Tobi has encountered a hero of false promises before.. If it were Obito, wouldn't he have no one to compare Kakashi to? Wouldn't Kakashi be the object of his vengeance (for failing to save Rin) and no one else?
Furthermore, Madara and Izuna were raised on the notion that their power (the Mangekyo) would lead to great fame and power for the Uchiha back in the day. Izuna and his brother likely believed this without a doubt...until they discovered that the Mangekyo eventually loses it's light. Like I mentioned before, Izuna was robbed of his power and dreams when Madara took his eyes. Since Izuna probably didn't die right away, the reality of his treacherous brother and no hope for the future caused him to hate heroes of false promises. Madara likely promised Izuna that the two would conquer all clans and beat everyone with their amazing Mangekyo power. When Tobi says "reality is cruelly moving forward", he is likely referencing the torment he had to face once his eyes were plucked.
Moving on...
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The line "I want to build a world where heroes don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves" automatically makes one think of Kakashi in front of Obito's grave. But imagine the excuses Madara must have said to Izuna both while he was alive and to his grave after his eyes were taken. He probably justified robbing Izuna of his future in the name of the clan and since he was the eldest, only he could take responsibility fr the clan's well-being. How would you feel if someone you loved stole your future and accomplishments from you in the name of a "greater cause"? Not only that, but Madara failed in the end to achieve Uchiha superiority So what did Izuna give his eyes for?
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This last page sums it up nicely. Tobi questions Naruto about what will happen if he fails in his mission to bring peace to the ninja world. Izuna is the exact definition of "the hollow reality" Tobi is talking about on this page. Even after Madara failed, Izuna's hollow reality continued on without any hope. Think about what Izuna must have felt when/if he was revived by Madara and learned that his sacrifice was for nothing.
To Izuna, using hope as an excuse means nothing in a world where reality can be cruel, unfair and unforgiving.
Finally, this page proves essentially everything I was talking about.
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If we assume that Izuna's eyes were indeed plucked, imagine how much emotional control it would take for Tobi to tell a straight lie like this. Notice how he clutches his arm!
Tobi is not interested in kakashi in anyway, he ignores him many times. Reason to show them battle together is to just show their sharingans are connected, nothing else. Tobi is very arrogant doesnt care about anybody or even himself. I dont see any special treatment of tobi on kakashi cause he likes to praise others as he had done with naruto or even sasuke. I think kishi is trying to make us think he is obito.
I think the latest chapter hasnt changed much, except weaken obito theory. Tobi took obitos sharingan and probably possesses his body.
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ohmychristinee
Member
To Edge's post,
I really enjoyed this post because honestly, I was never for the whole Izuna as Tobi thing as much but you have presented the theory in a way where there are very minimal flaws and he could very well much be him. Yes, I do believe that there is a possibility that Izuna would be Tobi, however the fact that they do have his body and Madara mentions that he is very much dead gives a more direct closure to his death. Of course he can be resurrected from rinne tensei as you had mentioned, but what would be the dramatic plot twist in that? Two brothers who are trying to rule the world? If I remember correctly, I think Izuna was the one who was humble and believed in his brother's ability to save the clan, showing that he is very loyal towards is people. Killing them off is a bit shady then, since his main motives to give away his eyes was so that his clan can be saved. I can see where one might argue that he was angry at the Uchihas for throwing out his brother, hence where his motives could come in. If that is the case, then yes he does have a reason to be Tobi, but this conversation between Tobi and Kakashi was one of a very few that emphasizes tension between them. Tobi speaks as if he is offended at what Kakashi is doing, or did, while Kakashi is very apprehensive and stunned, a rarity considering he is usually calm in battle.
I do feel really strongly that Kishi would do something like make Tobi someone who is recognizable and in this case, such a parallel to Naruto as the main villain. Out of all the Obito candidates, it's not very hard to distinguish Obito as the only one who would be directly similar to Naruto in habits, actions, etc. Plus, Obito's death was definitely assumed. He was always presumably dead and having him alive in this huge plottwist can ultimately give us a closure for his death. I don't believe though Tobi is the same Obito we know, either manipulated by Zetsu or even Madara (this one highly unlikely though). Zetsu has shown vast knowledge on the past and there is still that mystery as to why Tobi's body contains Zetsu's plant like substances. My guess is, that Zetsu had rescued a dying Obito, realized the potential in his sharingan, fixed him up, brought him to Madara's tablet thing and there goes your story. Having a character like Izuna as Tobi wouldn't be as dramatic for a 600th chapter, with his character not fully developed enough. Having Obito as a villain would really start the story up and have a much richer impact on the story line.
If anything, my final theory is that Obito has to be related towards Madara and Izuna someway. Having their DNA or SOMETHING that would tie everything together. If Tobi turns out to be Obito, then damn I'd be excited to see what Kishi could pull out of his ass to really give all of us a mind****. What he's doing now is giving us some sort of information that seems so obvious that we automatically rule that he wouldn't do that, but let's not forget the Yondaime being Naruto's father. SOO OBVIOUS, but half of the Naruto fandom were arguing that he wasn't and BAM, Kishi pulls this crazy back story to again further the tale. I believe that it can be Izuna, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went either way. I would say to not rule out Obito completely because if he really turns out to be Tobi, then damn we should anticipate a very very good climax ahaed of us.
Oh yeah, besides, Kishi can honestly **** with his plot anyway he wants, in the end he'll still find something to connect everyone together.
I really enjoyed this post because honestly, I was never for the whole Izuna as Tobi thing as much but you have presented the theory in a way where there are very minimal flaws and he could very well much be him. Yes, I do believe that there is a possibility that Izuna would be Tobi, however the fact that they do have his body and Madara mentions that he is very much dead gives a more direct closure to his death. Of course he can be resurrected from rinne tensei as you had mentioned, but what would be the dramatic plot twist in that? Two brothers who are trying to rule the world? If I remember correctly, I think Izuna was the one who was humble and believed in his brother's ability to save the clan, showing that he is very loyal towards is people. Killing them off is a bit shady then, since his main motives to give away his eyes was so that his clan can be saved. I can see where one might argue that he was angry at the Uchihas for throwing out his brother, hence where his motives could come in. If that is the case, then yes he does have a reason to be Tobi, but this conversation between Tobi and Kakashi was one of a very few that emphasizes tension between them. Tobi speaks as if he is offended at what Kakashi is doing, or did, while Kakashi is very apprehensive and stunned, a rarity considering he is usually calm in battle.
I do feel really strongly that Kishi would do something like make Tobi someone who is recognizable and in this case, such a parallel to Naruto as the main villain. Out of all the Obito candidates, it's not very hard to distinguish Obito as the only one who would be directly similar to Naruto in habits, actions, etc. Plus, Obito's death was definitely assumed. He was always presumably dead and having him alive in this huge plottwist can ultimately give us a closure for his death. I don't believe though Tobi is the same Obito we know, either manipulated by Zetsu or even Madara (this one highly unlikely though). Zetsu has shown vast knowledge on the past and there is still that mystery as to why Tobi's body contains Zetsu's plant like substances. My guess is, that Zetsu had rescued a dying Obito, realized the potential in his sharingan, fixed him up, brought him to Madara's tablet thing and there goes your story. Having a character like Izuna as Tobi wouldn't be as dramatic for a 600th chapter, with his character not fully developed enough. Having Obito as a villain would really start the story up and have a much richer impact on the story line.
If anything, my final theory is that Obito has to be related towards Madara and Izuna someway. Having their DNA or SOMETHING that would tie everything together. If Tobi turns out to be Obito, then damn I'd be excited to see what Kishi could pull out of his ass to really give all of us a mind****. What he's doing now is giving us some sort of information that seems so obvious that we automatically rule that he wouldn't do that, but let's not forget the Yondaime being Naruto's father. SOO OBVIOUS, but half of the Naruto fandom were arguing that he wasn't and BAM, Kishi pulls this crazy back story to again further the tale. I believe that it can be Izuna, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went either way. I would say to not rule out Obito completely because if he really turns out to be Tobi, then damn we should anticipate a very very good climax ahaed of us.
Oh yeah, besides, Kishi can honestly **** with his plot anyway he wants, in the end he'll still find something to connect everyone together.
While my posts about it likely being Obito, I actually am trying to find reasons why it shouldn't and couldn't be him.
Referencing my previous post:
I came across the following:
^ This is what Obito's grave looks like.
This is the grave that Kakashi was envisioning in his mind:
^ Kakashi isn't thinking of Obito's grave at this particular moment in time, after Tobi's "Pitiful excuses in front of graves" comment. This is Kakashi at Rin's gravesite.
This is the American translation of Kakashi visiting Obito's grave from the Anime. Kakashi and the woman have a conversation. The woman says:
"And you, Kakashi? Paying respects to Obito. Instead of constantly inventing new excuses for being late, why don't you simply come here earlier?"
"This place makes me think of the mistakes I've made in the past. And I've made so many of them."
In all likelihood , it's going to come down to two scenarios.
1) Obito used S/T to escape from the boulders, and Madara took him under his wing. Trained him, and instructed him on how to revive him via Rinne-Tensei that will be implanted into Nagato.
2) Izuna took the eye, which explains why he allegedly can't shut down his sharingan.
The problems I have with this, is Tobi's admission of obtaining the eye at the bridge/site of Obito's alleged death. He didn't say "I took it", or "I awakened" it. When asked, "Where did you get that eye", he simply said, "It was during the third war, at the bridge."
The vocabulary used there implies that he unlocked it, not that he took it at the bridge. If Izuna/Madara had discovered a killed boys body with a 2-tom sharingan, there's no way for them to know, right then and there, that this would be an incredible S/T tech eye. Now, if Tobi ended up being the father or brother of Obito, and knew ahead of time what the eye was going to produce.... But that's another story/thread.
All of this foreshadowing isn't for nothing. It's all deliberate, carefully worded statements leading up to a climatic conclusion. Writing 101.
Edit: Also, I've posted this on previous pages, but it's absolutely worth mentioning. During one of the first meetings between Kakashi and Tobi, Kakashi asks him, "What do you want?" Tobi replies, "If I had to pick, I'd say a perfect body, I guess." Implying the body is destroyed in some way. We know that it currently is made of Zetsu-goo.
Tobi is especially angry with the way he says, "That fight where you got to be called, "The Hero with the Sharingan.""
It isn't, "The fight where you earned the name", or "The fight where you became known as," it was "The fight where you got to be called." The structure of the way it is said implies anger, and frustration. Obito gave Kakashi his sharingan to survive, to live on, and carry on Obito's name. But the only thing Konoha remembered is that Kakashi gained the Sharingan. Obito got snubbed here pretty bad by the village.
Rin's death, along with the village celebrating Kakashi's Sharingan, may be enough motive to cause Obito to go berserk. Who knows, maybe Madara was able to show Obito visions, or take Obito into the village incognito to show him that the village didn't remember him? Remember, Sasuke visited Konoha and eavesdropped on the village talking down about Itachi. Infiltration is always possible.
Referencing my previous post:
As I said previously, very personal stuff. I'm trying my best to find reasons why it shouldn't be Obito, and I really can't (outside of the normal "Time frame" stuff. But lets be real, we're dealing with someone who uses/abuses Space and Time).
I came across the following:
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^ This is what Obito's grave looks like.
This is the grave that Kakashi was envisioning in his mind:
You must be registered for see images
^ Kakashi isn't thinking of Obito's grave at this particular moment in time, after Tobi's "Pitiful excuses in front of graves" comment. This is Kakashi at Rin's gravesite.
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This is the American translation of Kakashi visiting Obito's grave from the Anime. Kakashi and the woman have a conversation. The woman says:
"And you, Kakashi? Paying respects to Obito. Instead of constantly inventing new excuses for being late, why don't you simply come here earlier?"
"This place makes me think of the mistakes I've made in the past. And I've made so many of them."
In all likelihood , it's going to come down to two scenarios.
1) Obito used S/T to escape from the boulders, and Madara took him under his wing. Trained him, and instructed him on how to revive him via Rinne-Tensei that will be implanted into Nagato.
2) Izuna took the eye, which explains why he allegedly can't shut down his sharingan.
The problems I have with this, is Tobi's admission of obtaining the eye at the bridge/site of Obito's alleged death. He didn't say "I took it", or "I awakened" it. When asked, "Where did you get that eye", he simply said, "It was during the third war, at the bridge."
The vocabulary used there implies that he unlocked it, not that he took it at the bridge. If Izuna/Madara had discovered a killed boys body with a 2-tom sharingan, there's no way for them to know, right then and there, that this would be an incredible S/T tech eye. Now, if Tobi ended up being the father or brother of Obito, and knew ahead of time what the eye was going to produce.... But that's another story/thread.
All of this foreshadowing isn't for nothing. It's all deliberate, carefully worded statements leading up to a climatic conclusion. Writing 101.
Edit: Also, I've posted this on previous pages, but it's absolutely worth mentioning. During one of the first meetings between Kakashi and Tobi, Kakashi asks him, "What do you want?" Tobi replies, "If I had to pick, I'd say a perfect body, I guess." Implying the body is destroyed in some way. We know that it currently is made of Zetsu-goo.
Tobi is especially angry with the way he says, "That fight where you got to be called, "The Hero with the Sharingan.""
It isn't, "The fight where you earned the name", or "The fight where you became known as," it was "The fight where you got to be called." The structure of the way it is said implies anger, and frustration. Obito gave Kakashi his sharingan to survive, to live on, and carry on Obito's name. But the only thing Konoha remembered is that Kakashi gained the Sharingan. Obito got snubbed here pretty bad by the village.
Rin's death, along with the village celebrating Kakashi's Sharingan, may be enough motive to cause Obito to go berserk. Who knows, maybe Madara was able to show Obito visions, or take Obito into the village incognito to show him that the village didn't remember him? Remember, Sasuke visited Konoha and eavesdropped on the village talking down about Itachi. Infiltration is always possible.
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The more I think about it the more it puzzles me...
Why he can't be Obito/related to Obito
-Tobi controlled Yagura, the three tailed jinchuriki, a long time ago
Why he can't have Obito's eye (as a third one)
-Obito hadn't awakened his MS. You can't just use someone's MS technique before it awakens (which is why Itachi claimed he was waiting to kill his brother)
Why he can't be a non Uchiha
- Normal people can't use Uchiha techniques in quick succession without getting tired
He really does seem like no one. Even if he was an Uchiha from way back when with an "I can live forever" jutsu- it wouldn't change the fact that he shouldn't be able to use Kamui(and neither should Kakashi, frankly). I'm obviously missing something. Assuming Obito managed to add another tomoe to his sharingan AND awaken MS right before dying is just ridiculous.
EDIT: I've decided to bite the bullet and assume he has Obito's eye. The only way I can imagine this is if Tobi has a particularly strong healing jutsu that would bring feeling back to the right side of his(Obito's) body. He stole Obito, brought him back from the brink of death, trained him (Can you upgrade your eye if you only have one?), killed him, and then stole his eye ._.
Yes, that is seriously the best idea I have.
Why he can't be Obito/related to Obito
-Tobi controlled Yagura, the three tailed jinchuriki, a long time ago
Why he can't have Obito's eye (as a third one)
-Obito hadn't awakened his MS. You can't just use someone's MS technique before it awakens (which is why Itachi claimed he was waiting to kill his brother)
Why he can't be a non Uchiha
- Normal people can't use Uchiha techniques in quick succession without getting tired
He really does seem like no one. Even if he was an Uchiha from way back when with an "I can live forever" jutsu- it wouldn't change the fact that he shouldn't be able to use Kamui(and neither should Kakashi, frankly). I'm obviously missing something. Assuming Obito managed to add another tomoe to his sharingan AND awaken MS right before dying is just ridiculous.
EDIT: I've decided to bite the bullet and assume he has Obito's eye. The only way I can imagine this is if Tobi has a particularly strong healing jutsu that would bring feeling back to the right side of his(Obito's) body. He stole Obito, brought him back from the brink of death, trained him (Can you upgrade your eye if you only have one?), killed him, and then stole his eye ._.
Yes, that is seriously the best idea I have.
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LeafSpirit 20
Active member
The people that still say he isnt obito after chapter 597 just dont want tobi to be obito, but deep inside they know.. Kishi is not so great in keeping things secret, like I stated before, since the original naruto(when they were kids) I knew Minato was narutos father.. All the close ups to his face stone, the same hair, and how every time naruto said something touching he was always looking at the fourth hokages stone face
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