Pre-Rinnegan Tobi vs Pre-Rinnegan Madara

[arv993]

this^ its too much raw power with not intelligence but EXPERIENCE....this is the man that rag dolled both oonoki and muu, with ems and with ease

that wont work tobi can easily turn intangible to those attacks and avoid all those attacks. just because he beats oonoki and mu doesnt mean he can beat tobi. that kind of logic doesnt work.

 

[shogun973]

that wont work tobi can easily turn intangible to those attacks and avoid all those attacks. just because he beats oonoki and mu doesnt mean he can beat tobi. that kind of logic doesnt work.

I was referring to another post but like you said they know each other and madara is obviously the head honcho as we've seen he doesn't take orders,
being intangible is ok but when you can't reach madara its basically like saying they both can't be touched however the person with more offense in this situation is madara die to more chakra, violent attacks

 

[MrLukyso]

EMS Madara. Tobi has no attacks which can good decent demage while all Madara's attacks does some demage.. Also I would like to say that Madara has most Battle experience and as we saw he self said " It seems that the difference between Battle experience starts to show " or something like that... It means that Battle Experience is a HUGE factor. Also Warping has a weakness, Tobi can be touched while Amaterasu is a fast attack and while in Mid air ( Warping into Perfect Susanoo which is 3 times bigger than Meteor ) Tobi can't dodge and while warping away he will take Amaterasu with him and yes we saw him somehow geting rid of Amaterasu, but he sealed it, I bet somehow like Jirayia did so you can't do that in a Battle againts Madara. Also Katon... As we saw what Madaras Katon can do we can say that Madara is the strongest Katon user and his Katon is deadly, while Tobi has no suiton or any other element apart Senju DNA, but he has no WOOD ELEMENT, well maybe he has but he is NOT able to control it ( Like Zetsu ). So I give this to EMS Madara. All Tobi strength comes from Gedo Mazo and Bijuus which is Rinnegan.

 

[Munboy]

If we're talking ocular powers: Tobi's eye power is like Madara's. That should say something.

 

[arv993]

I was referring to another post but like you said they know each other and madara is obviously the head honcho as we've seen he doesn't take orders,
being intangible is ok but when you can't reach madara its basically like saying they both can't be touched however the person with more offense in this situation is madara die to more chakra, violent attacks

yea its a waste to keep using ps if doesnt kill ur opponent honestly. i can bet s/t takes way less chakra than madara's ps. but if he is simply in ps then neither side like u siad has a big advatage. madara and tobi have a shot at this and madara with amaterasu can win but so could tobi with his s/t. but i disagree with ppl saying madara has little to no chance when he does

 

[Munboy]

Tobi can just walk within the perfect Susanoo. He should be able to teleport on top of Susanoo with no issues. Then he could remain intangible and get close to Madara and he'd be as done as Minato was*.


*Madara, unlike Minato, lacks a space-time jutsu so really once Tobi touches him, its over.

Only Rinnegan Madara stands a chance as he could absorb the chakra Tobi uses to absorb/teleport/remain intangible then use the right counterattack; or just hit with a Shinra Tensei right after.

EMS Madara, from what we can gather, wouldn't be able to beat Tobi.

 

[TobisPawn]

Tobi can just walk within the perfect Susanoo. He should be able to teleport on top of Susanoo with no issues. Then he could remain intangible and get close to Madara and he'd be as done as Minato was*.


*Madara, unlike Minato, lacks a space-time jutsu so really once Tobi touches him, its over.

Only Rinnegan Madara stands a chance as he could absorb the chakra Tobi uses to absorb/teleport/remain intangible then use the right counterattack; or just hit with a Shinra Tensei right after.

EMS Madara, from what we can gather, wouldn't be able to beat Tobi.

What you said is true, but most people here have begun to hype Madara a little too much. >.>

so madara has no clue who tobi is that is unlikely and not true

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they for some reason would have the same plan and cleary show here that madara knows of tobi. tobi knows about madara but the same is also very highly possible.

and like others he can also figure out about how his s/t works. first time tobi tries to warp madara, he can easily push him away with his sussano activated as he only uses susanoo when necessary. from then onwards it anyone can be cautious and the scenario i mentioned is something that can easily happen.

like i said b4 in sussano, what would madara do while tobi tries to sneak up on him just stand there, ofc not he will ready to use amaterasu as its his fastest tech on this opponent. tobi comes pretty fast but can easily get hit by amaterasu as it doesnt take anytime especially at pointblank and like i said he has to look at him not turn his whole body around and inside sussano there is only so many places he can sneak up on so madara can easily see him wherever he comes from. its not nearly far fetched and ofc there are chances madara too can absorbed not denying it but if tobi gets hit by amaterasu its game over for him too. i am not saying madara wins all the time but its a toss up but u guys make it seem hopeless against his s/t tech but thats not the case. if madara is smart he has a good shot

Madara knows Tobi, but we can't assume that he knows about his S/T techs. And I don't think you get it. Madara wont have the time to really even react to Tobi's warping if he doesn't even know that Tobi can warp him. Tobi can do exactly what he did to Torune. Hell, Fu was watching and still couldn't react. Madara, who has no knowledge on the S/T techs, wont immediately turn around and fire off an Amaterasu to Tobi's face or torso in that short time and with him being gripped. If Minato, who was first alerted of Tobi's presence, barely managed an FTG what makes you think that Madara, who won't know Tobi's there till he's practically gone, will be able to turn around and fire an Amaterasu (in which the eyes will have to bleed first also).

I believe EMS Madara would win if he just stays on top of Perfect Susanoo.Tobi cant fly and Susanoo would keep hitting him with shockwaves

He cant teleport massive things in little time or he would of been able to teleport the tags Konan made in a instance.I believe Madara would outlast him and put him under to much pressure

Tobi can warp into Susanoo after Madara wrecks the battlefield (Tobi goes intangible for Susanoo's swings), so Madara wont see it coming.

And Tobi can't do what he did to Torune, or what he did to Minato, why? Warping countless paper bombs' explosions is different from warping a person. Minato, alerted of his presence, barely FTG'd away. Madara, unaware of his presence till he's almost completely warped, can't do anything.

Raw power isn't everything, contrary to what many of you guys believe. Especially not when there's a guy who can avoid practically any attack. U_U

 

[Munboy]

We've gotto remember that Tobi feared Rinnegan Madara, not EMS Madara.

Rinnegan essentially helped Tobi cancel out the Rinnegan with Madara; the traits which separated them are their unique traits.
With both of them 'leveled' equally with the Rinnegan*, it is clear Tobi's unique traits give him the edge seeing as he was willing to battle an immortal Madara and Kabuto concurrently.


*Assumes that Madara's skill, like Tobi's, exceeds Nagato's.

 

[Tobitime]

Tobi's s/t techs are incredibly hard to counter, especially without detailed knowledge. Madara can have all the destructive power in the world but he will have a hard time landing anything.

 

[Djokovic]

Tobi almost died against Konan and also losing his arm against fodders is not an incredible feet. The strongest Uchiha will predict all Tobis movements.

 

[Kira was Righteous]

Tobi can warp into Susanoo after Madara wrecks the battlefield (Tobi goes intangible for Susanoo's swings), so Madara wont see it coming.

And Tobi can't do what he did to Torune, or what he did to Minato, why? Warping countless paper bombs' explosions is different from warping a person. Minato, alerted of his presence, barely FTG'd away. Madara, unaware of his presence till he's almost completely warped, can't do anything.

Raw power isn't everything, contrary to what many of you guys believe. Especially not when there's a guy who can avoid practically any attack. U_U

Tobi cant fly how can he warp up to Madara..... I just dont see how Tobi can just warp into a susanoo so big he would barely be able to see Madara.

Anyway space time isnt as strong as you make out or Tobi would have been stated to be the strongest in the Akatsuki not pain

 

[Bogard]

Tobi cant fly how can he warp up to Madara..... I just dont see how Tobi can just warp into a susanoo so big he would barely be able to see Madara.

Anyway space time isnt as strong as you make out or Tobi would have been stated to be the strongest in the Akatsuki not pain

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[TobisPawn]

Tobi cant fly how can he warp up to Madara..... I just dont see how Tobi can just warp into a susanoo so big he would barely be able to see Madara.

Anyway space time isnt as strong as you make out or Tobi would have been stated to be the strongest in the Akatsuki not pain

He doesn't have to fly...he can just warp into it...its not a hard concept to grasp.

Pain was the strongest in terms of raw power, but Tobi is the hardest to kill/defeat.

 

[arv993]

What you said is true, but most people here have begun to hype Madara a little too much. >.>




Madara knows Tobi, but we can't assume that he knows about his S/T techs. And I don't think you get it. Madara wont have the time to really even react to Tobi's warping if he doesn't even know that Tobi can warp him. Tobi can do exactly what he did to Torune. Hell, Fu was watching and still couldn't react. Madara, who has no knowledge on the S/T techs, wont immediately turn around and fire off an Amaterasu to Tobi's face or torso in that short time and with him being gripped. If Minato, who was first alerted of Tobi's presence, barely managed an FTG what makes you think that Madara, who won't know Tobi's there till he's practically gone, will be able to turn around and fire an Amaterasu (in which the eyes will have to bleed first also).




Tobi can warp into Susanoo after Madara wrecks the battlefield (Tobi goes intangible for Susanoo's swings), so Madara wont see it coming.

And Tobi can't do what he did to Torune, or what he did to Minato, why? Warping countless paper bombs' explosions is different from warping a person. Minato, alerted of his presence, barely FTG'd away. Madara, unaware of his presence till he's almost completely warped, can't do anything.

Raw power isn't everything, contrary to what many of you guys believe. Especially not when there's a guy who can avoid practically any attack. U_U

i highly doubt only tobi knows about madara and the vice versa isnt possible.
but still its not rocket science to figure it out as multiple ppl figure it out and he has knowledge of s/t techs as he was in the same time as tobirama.

U r the one who doesnt get it, as u said what if tobi does what he did to fu, my answer is simple he activates the sussano and tobi is easily pushed away the first time he tries to warp him away. right there he will figure out what his abilities are, and madara only uses his sussano if necessary so he wont start off with susanoo

and sussano activation is instant hell itachi did in a fraction of a second and so did sasuke. after that he would use amaterasu as that is sensible and i explained it to u very clearly b4. madara isnt an idiot either anyone tell that its dangerous and after escaping once he will simply try to hit him with his fastest attack aka amaterasu.

And in a close vicinity like inside a sussano how is it hard to see especially since the sharingan does a good job at tracking opponents. madara can get him with ametarsu there especially since its point blank range in susano and i have explained it b4 thats its definitely possible

 

[arv993]

He doesn't have to fly...he can just warp into it...its not a hard concept to grasp.

Pain was the strongest in terms of raw power, but Tobi is the hardest to kill/defeat.

while he warps in there madara is doing nothing as well. dude warping inside the diamond or near there is suicide for tobi he has to take the time to teleport there where madara can easily see him and then he has to use his warping ability to absorb him too much time for madara to use amaterasu.

 

[TobisPawn]

i highly doubt only tobi knows about madara and the vice versa isnt possible.
but still its not rocket science to figure it out as multiple ppl figure it out and he has knowledge of s/t techs as he was in the same time as tobirama.

S/T techs can be very different from each other, like Minato's and Tobi's. And Madara might not have time to figure out how they work if Tobi does what he did with Minato and warp him right away (Minato only escaped with FTG).

U r the one who doesnt get it, as u said what if tobi does what he did to fu, my answer is simple he activates the sussano and tobi is easily pushed away the first time he tries to warp him away. right there he will figure out what his abilities are, and madara only uses his sussano if necessary so he wont start off with susanoo

Susanoo's activation wont help at all if Tobi warps Madara

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where Susanoo doesn't reach. U_U And Susanoo's activation isn't as instant as FTG either. Madara would have to realize the situation, activate his MS, and then use Susanoo.

and sussano activation is instant hell itachi did in a fraction of a second and so did sasuke. after that he would use amaterasu as that is sensible and i explained it to u very clearly b4. madara isnt an idiot either anyone tell that its dangerous and after escaping once he will simply try to hit him with his fastest attack aka amaterasu.

So if Tobi decides to warp him right off the bat, Madara will somehow grasp the situation, activate MS, THEN use Susanoo all while Tobi has already begun warping him? That's not happening for sure. Minato only managed FTG in this situation, when Tobi alerted him of his presence first (not happening if Tobi comes behind Madara).

And Madara doesn't even us the MS right off the bat, so this isn't happening for sure. He's done for if he doesn't use Susanoo at the very start of the fight (which Tobi will then warp him from inside Susanoo).

And in a close vicinity like inside a sussano how is it hard to see especially since the sharingan does a good job at tracking opponents. madara can get him with ametarsu there especially since its point blank range in susano and i have explained it b4 thats its definitely possible

What if Tobi warps behind Madara, like with Torune? The Sharingan can't track what it can't see. U_U

The fact is Madara will be just like Torune. Tobi warps, Madara doesn't realize it, and Madara's gone. Madara can't realize what's happening with no intel on Tobi's S/T techs, turn around, activate Amaterasu (eyes bleed), then hit Tobi before he gets warped away.

 

[arv993]

S/T techs can be very different from each other, like Minato's and Tobi's. And Madara might not have time to figure out how they work if Tobi does what he did with Minato and warp him right away (Minato only escaped with FTG).



Susanoo's activation wont help at all if Tobi warps Madara

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where Susanoo doesn't reach. U_U And Susanoo's activation isn't as instant as FTG either. Madara would have to realize the situation, activate his MS, and then use Susanoo.



So if Tobi decides to warp him right off the bat, Madara will somehow grasp the situation, activate MS, THEN use Susanoo all while Tobi has already begun warping him? That's not happening for sure. Minato only managed FTG in this situation, when Tobi alerted him of his presence first (not happening if Tobi comes behind Madara).

And Madara doesn't even us the MS right off the bat, so this isn't happening for sure. He's done for if he doesn't use Susanoo at the very start of the fight (which Tobi will then warp him from inside Susanoo).



What if Tobi warps behind Madara, like with Torune? The Sharingan can't track what it can't see. U_U

The fact is Madara will be just like Torune. Tobi warps, Madara doesn't realize it, and Madara's gone. Madara can't realize what's happening with no intel on Tobi's S/T techs, turn around, activate Amaterasu (eyes bleed), then hit Tobi before he gets warped away.

u dont have to be as fast as ftg but close enough to counter it lol and itachi activated sussano b4 the lightning hit which attacks on a fraction of a second way less time than tobi's warping ability.

also tobi didnt absorb foo from below look at the next panel he clearly gets out of the wall and absorbs him so he still gets hit by sussano. and no it takes absolutely little to no time to activate the sussano and madara used it within less than a second even when he had the regular sharingan which later turned into ms so dont even give me that it takes absolutely no time for him to activate the sussano

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so ur saying madara does nothing while some dude tries to warp him like minato he will try to immediately try to defend himself aka sussano and then tobi would be blown back.

dont try to twist the scenario u always say activate MS, realize the situation then use susanoo are u freaking kidding this happens in less than a second but u make it seem it takes like a minute to do this. itachi, madara and sasuke all have shown how they activate sussano in less than a second. Ur are beyond underrating madara that its crazy. if the shit u said is true madara would be sealed by now. look at my post it clearly shows it takes no time to activate sussano.

and activating ms takes no time either madara and kakashi prove u wrong both use an ms tech instantly from base with no problem. it doesnt work like he slowly waits for the eyes to spin a five second wait then ppl are ready to use their ms techs manga clearly proves my point here

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according to ur logic kakashi would have been toast

and what if he does what he did to torune at the beginning u say he activates sussano as any uchiha(with susanoo) does that when they feel any sort of attack they can't get its that simple and like i said its instant.

and from there madara knows how tobi's s/t works(as multiple ninja already figured out b4) and would try to fight it with his fastest jutsu aka amaterasu. and inside sussano, madara can get tobi with amaterasu especially at point blank range.

 

[MrLukyso]

Arv good job. Finally TobisPawn will have to say Madara is more powerfull than Tobi hahaha... Unless....

 

[TobisPawn]

u dont have to be as fast as ftg but close enough to counter it lol and itachi activated sussano b4 the lightning hit which attacks on a fraction of a second way less time than tobi's warping ability.

Itachi saw the lightning coming and had the ability to prepare for a decent amount of time. Madara wont have this opportunity if he gets surprise-attacked.

also tobi didnt absorb foo from below look at the next panel he clearly gets out of the wall and absorbs him so he still gets hit by sussano. and no it takes absolutely little to no time to activate the sussano and madara used it within less than a second even when he had the regular sharingan which later turned into ms so dont even give me that it takes absolutely no time for him to activate the sussano

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Tobi absorbed Fu as he got out. And Madara wont even see it coming (Tobi wont say "you're" next) so he'll be gone. Naruto coming in with a Rasengan (with Madara seeing the attack coming) is a lot easier to dodge being near-instantly warped by Tobi, who Madara won't see coming.

so ur saying madara does nothing while some dude tries to warp him like minato he will try to immediately try to defend himself aka sussano and then tobi would be blown back.

Minato was warned of his presence first, something Madara wont be. And FTG is more instant than Susanoo activating, which can again be dodged by Tobi doing what he did with Fu.

dont try to twist the scenario u always say activate MS, realize the situation then use susanoo are u freaking kidding this happens in less than a second but u make it seem it takes like a minute to do this. itachi, madara and sasuke all have shown how they activate sussano in less than a second. Ur are beyond underrating madara that its crazy. if the shit u said is true madara would be sealed by now. look at my post it clearly shows it takes no time to activate sussano.

Maybe activating MS doesn't take too long, but realizing the situation does. Look at Fu. He was gone before he knew what happened. Same with Torune. Minato was near gone before he was able to FTG, and this is after Tobi waited a little before beginning to warp him. I don't think you understand the part of Madara being surprised. In all scenarios you've posted, the people have seen the attack coming, and still barely protected themselves.

and activating ms takes no time either madara and kakashi prove u wrong both use an ms tech instantly from base with no problem. it doesnt work like he slowly waits for the eyes to spin a five second wait then ppl are ready to use their ms techs manga clearly proves my point here

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according to ur logic kakashi would have been toast

In both of these, the MS users saw the attacks coming. If the same thing happens as with what happened with Torune, they're toast. Tobi warped into Jinton, grabbed Sasuke, and warped out, and Sasuke had almost no time to even react during that. If Madara doesn't even see the attack coming, what makes you think he can instantly use Susanoo's ribs in the exact area Tobi is in? What if Tobi does what he did with Torune?

and what if he does what he did to torune at the beginning u say he activates sussano as any uchiha(with susanoo) does that when they feel any sort of attack they can't get its that simple and like i said its instant.

Susanoo isn't instant if the user doesn't even know to use Susanoo. :sy: Not one person has seen Tobi's warp coming and form a counter other than Minato, who was alerted of his presence and has an instantaneous S/T tech.

and from there madara knows how tobi's s/t works(as multiple ninja already figured out b4) and would try to fight it with his fastest jutsu aka amaterasu. and inside sussano, madara can get tobi with amaterasu especially at point blank range.

Torune and Fu figured out his S/T techs and still got warped instantly. And Madara wont have anything to figure out if he's warped on the first go (which no one but alerted, FTG Minato has dodged). Minato's reflexes and FTG speed > Madara's reflexes and Susanoo's activation speed.

And even if he figures out the S/T techs, in your near-impossible scenario, you're telling me he'll be able to predict will Tobi will warp and hit him with Amaterasu which takes time for the person's eyes to bleed, eyes to focus, and such?

 

[MrLukyso]

TobisPawn... Madaras reflexes is way better than Minato's but I will give you that FTG > Susanoo speed. Also Battle experience.. Madara is not Minato or Sasuke which are fodders compared with Madara... You see Madara was gone for a more than 100 years and still he figures what Jutsu/KG Kages are using instantly which is a plus he gets from Battle experience... It Allows the Shinobi to see a lot of ways of defeating an opponent or figuring his style very fast.. And why you give that Fu ant Tortune all the times... They're almost Fodders.. And again you restrict Madara much... Prime EMS Madara had Hashiramas DNA and Kyuubi so lol...